Ashton gate halt and the Portishead rail line (Merged)

[Rich]

This smacks of delay followed by cancellation. The government are in dire need of funding for various projects and just to keep the country running.

No doubt there will be some sort of announcement referring to the environmental impact against the possible advantages of the reopening. They'll site projected lower use due to the effects of the pandemic, against increased traffic flow to the P&R aspects of the new line, after asking for another feasibility study.

This has been happening to the greater Bristol area for as long as I can remember. It matters not which political party is in power. They know we'll just put up and, shut up. The funding was withdrawn for our metro by Dawn Primarolo in the nineties, after Bristol's Labour council argued the toss with the Lib Dem South Glos council over the termination of the line.

Anything that has been built in Bristol has nearly always been from private funding, or by the council and the ratepayers themselves. Bristol had to fund the Royal Portbury dock with no government aid. Nissan wanted to build their car plant at Royal Portbury, the then Labour government refused to licence it, instead offering financial inducements to locate it in Sunderland. We've had to compete with decades of financial bribery offered to firms to locate/relocate to south Wales, with quite a few leaving Bristol to subsidize their profits.

Our centre for the performing arts on the Harbourside was granted funding of £100m, only for it to be taken away and given to the Covent Garden Opera house. The very successful Commonwealth Museum was taken from Bristol at TM and taken to London. We receieve far less funding than any core city and most other Cities and towns in the UK, due to the "Barnet formula". Quite frankly, after spending a day in Cardiff recently, which the BBC chose to relocate the long standing successful TV programme "casualty", from Bristol and learning that they're planning "another" Arena on top of the one they've already got, I can honestly say I'm totally pissed off with it.

If we have a Labour council, we get a Conservative government and vice versa, who then tend to irritate central government, so we tend to never get the rewards that other cities do. And I really believe it's because we don't fight hard enough or, shout loud enough, similar traits could be aimed at the supporters of football in the city. 

[lenred]

8 minutes ago, Rich said:

This smacks of delay followed by cancellation. The government are in dire need of funding for various projects and just to keep the country running.

No doubt there will be some sort of announcement referring to the environmental impact against the possible advantages of the reopening. They'll site projected lower use due to the effects of the pandemic, against increased traffic flow to the P&R aspects of the new line, after asking for another feasibility study.

This has been happening to the greater Bristol area for as long as I can remember. It matters not which political party is in power. They know we'll just put up and, shut up. The funding was withdrawn for our metro by Dawn Primarolo in the nineties, after Bristol's Labour council argued the toss with the Lib Dem South Glos council over the termination of the line.

Anything that has been built in Bristol has nearly always been from private funding, or by the council and the ratepayers themselves. Bristol had to fund the Royal Portbury dock with no government aid. Nissan wanted to build their car plant at Royal Portbury, the then Labour government refused to licence it, instead offering financial inducements to locate it in Sunderland. We've had to compete with decades of financial bribery offered to firms to locate/relocate to south Wales, with quite a few leaving Bristol to subsidize their profits.

Our centre for the performing arts on the Harbourside was granted funding of £100m, only for it to be taken away and given to the Covent Garden Opera house. The very successful Commonwealth Museum was taken from Bristol at TM and taken to London. We receieve far less funding than any core city and most other Cities and towns in the UK, due to the "Barnet formula". Quite frankly, after spending a day in Cardiff recently, which the BBC chose to relocate the long standing successful TV programme "casualty", from Bristol and learning that they're planning "another" Arena on top of the one they've already got, I can honestly say I'm totally pissed off with it.

If we have a Labour council, we get a Conservative government and vice versa, who then tend to irritate central government, so we tend to never get the rewards that other cities do. And I really believe it's because we don't fight hard enough or, shout loud enough, similar traits could be aimed at the supporters of football in the city. 

Amazing the money that’s spent in Cardiff.  I went to Uni there in the late 90s and the transformation these days is ridiculous in comparison to the money spent here over the same period.  We’ve always been a city that’s successful despite the council though - whoever’s in charge.  

[Rich]

1 minute ago, lenred said:

Amazing the money that’s spent in Cardiff.  I went to Uni there in the late 90s and the transformation these days is ridiculous in comparison to the money spent here over the same period.  We’ve always been a city that’s successful despite the council though - whoever’s in charge.  

I agree that we are successful but, we still have no Arena, we still have no transport system, we still have no athletics stadium, we still have no Olympic sized pool. I doubt any cities we currently compete with for events suffer with this lack of infrastructure funding. When I say compete, I meant to say, we think about it, then don't bother, as we can't compete.

Thank goodness for the entrepreneurs' of Bristol, the likes of Steve Lansdown and Wael Al Qadi, who've put their money where their mouth is to provide great facilities/tents for the city's football clubs.

[lenred]

8 minutes ago, Rich said:

I agree that we are successful but, we still have no Arena, we still have no transport system, we still have no athletics stadium, we still have no Olympic sized pool. I doubt any cities we currently compete with for events suffer with this lack of infrastructure funding. When I say compete, I meant to say, we think about it, then don't bother, as we can't compete.

Thank goodness for the entrepreneurs' of Bristol, the likes of Steve Lansdown and Wael Al Qadi, who've put their money where their mouth is to provide great facilities/tents for the city's football clubs.

Oh I completely agree about the infrastructure.  It’s an absolute disgrace. Transport, sporting facilities, arena, a complete lack of joined up thinking across the board. It’s a joke.  Yet thousands of people want to move here every year and it consistently gets voted ‘best place to live’ and the economy thrives - hence my ‘successful’ comment. Successive Politicians and councils can rest easy on their laurels knowing it as well. 

[Rich]

Sadly, that makes it a more expensive place to live, for our poorer residents.

[Dr Balls]

6 hours ago, TomF said:

Conspiracy Theory: Currently up to 4 x 2200 tone (er yeah about those environmental issues..) stone trains run a week to and from RPD. These are rumoured to be for HS2 but nobody will confirm that so they don't get any potential hassle. These trains would have to stop in the event of work beginning on the line (relaying the track/signalling from Bedmister Jct to RPD stop) - so kicking it further down the line excuse the pun will allow more trains to run for the HS2 project and **** anyone who actually wants to use it for passenger service.

I even wrote to Dr Fox about it today and his response was he was 'fuming' about the decision. Hmm...

Dr Fox fuming? I don’t see why. Surely he should understand that this is Tory party policy under Johnson. Screw the people who have voted for you (especially if they aren’t in the North) and suggest that things failing to happen is someone else’s fault.

Tip to North Somerset voters: if you want better services and more infrastructure (other than more ****ing stupid tinkering with that bloody Junction 19 roundabout) then don’t keep electing a Tory MP, helping them to win elections. Simples!

[bcfcredandwhite]

Has it opened yet?

[italian dave]

On 21/10/2021 at 06:06, GreedyHarry said:

No, you do have to leave a few minutes early. I can do it in 16 minutes with warp drive enabled. 
Maybe it will get reinstated at some point, or the Down London, just after, gets an extra stop put in (here’s hoping).

Leaving early is quite an attractive proposition though. Blissful ignorance and all that. 

[GrahamC]

11 hours ago, lenred said:

Amazing the money that’s spent in Cardiff.  I went to Uni there in the late 90s and the transformation these days is ridiculous in comparison to the money spent here over the same period.  We’ve always been a city that’s successful despite the council though - whoever’s in charge.  

Wales is the land of free money, it all comes from the English taxpayer, previously the EU too.

Free prescriptions for all, free bus travel 7 years earlier in than England, capped tuition fees.

Who do you think pays for all that when Wales is not a net contributor to the UK economy?

When I was a Civil Servant I saw how European Social Fund money was distributed, Cardiff got 20 times as much as Bristol.

Money earned in Bristol now gets spent on Cardiff.

[lenred]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Wales is the land of free money, it all comes from the English taxpayer, previously the EU too.

Free prescriptions for all, free bus travel 7 years earlier in than England, capped tuition fees.

Who do you think pays for all that when Wales is not a net contributor to the UK economy?

When I was a Civil Servant I saw how European Social Fund money was distributed, Cardiff got 20 times as much as Bristol.

Money earned in Bristol now gets spent on Cardiff.

If only we had a government who believed in and actually implemented ‘levelling up’ . On a serious note though, everything about Bristol politics has always been far far too passive - no one, regardless of party colour, ever fights our corner. Far more interested in batting things down rather than making positive improvements and as we seem a passive lot down here as well nothing ever gets done about it. Really hope the proposed rail improvements are not the latest example. 

[BTRFTG]

2 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Wales is the land of free money, it all comes from the English taxpayer, previously the EU too.

Free prescriptions for all, free bus travel 7 years earlier in than England, capped tuition fees.

Who do you think pays for all that when Wales is not a net contributor to the UK economy?

When I was a Civil Servant I saw how European Social Fund money was distributed, Cardiff got 20 times as much as Bristol.

Money earned in Bristol now gets spent on Cardiff.

Every man woman and child in Wales receives an additional £5,200 per annum under the Barnett Formula which they can splurge on whatever they want, not necessarily anything they need. Scots receive about twice that.

Which recalls the most expensive football matches in history.

In planning the London Olympics both the SNP and Scottish Labour Party played their anti English cards highlighting that north of the border there were to be no events, they'd been forgotten/ ignored even though it was the 'London Olympics'. English riding rough shod over the Scots blah, blah, blah. Being thick the bigoted politicians missed the bigger picture and allowed Westminster off the hook. So in a blaze of publicity both Government and organisers publicly announced they'd conceded to Scottish criticism and awarded 8 football fixtures to be played at Hampden Park (both men's and women's tournaments.) The Scottish wouldn't backtrack for fear of losing face and claimed this a great victory for everything tartan. They didn't mention it's pyrrhic nature.

First fixture fewer than 9k saw Salah net for Egypt in their demolition of Belarus. Stadium was less than half full to see Japan scrape past an impotent Spain (not so you'd recognise most of their line up.)

And as to what the politicos failed to tell the electorate? Had those 8 matches not taken place on Scottish soil the Olympic Organisers ( aka UK Government's bankroll,) would have had to pay the Scottish Government somewhere in excess of £900m in Barnett compensation. Each ticket sold 'cost' the Scots £7,500 in 'lost' income. Strange Wee Jimmy Krankie never mentions that.....

[Lanterne Rouge]

19 hours ago, northsomersetred said:

LR i'm not having a dig at you, please don't take it that way, i'm from Plymouth and I used to go upto Bere Alston regularly as a kid and teenager as my best mate's family were from there and we used to go up and see his grandparents. I also used to travel from Plymouth to Aberdeen/Gt Yarmouth when i used to work in the offshore oil and gas industry 30yrs ago i know first hand the issues around Dawlish

Have you been on the line from Plymouth to Gunnislake? That line is only suitable for DMU or similar, i'm no train buff but i think the biggest engine that ever went up that route was a Class 31. At a couple of places on the route the driver has to physically get out of the cab and retrieve a token to gain entry to that section of the line.

The cost would be huge to construct something suitable to take the new Hitachi trains, something the money for HS2 should be spent on, not building HS2

I to hope it gets built but realistically i cant see it.

Have look at this, the train upto Princetown back in the day, fantastic film, i'd recommend watching it all if you have 1/2hr to spare

 

Yeah, I`ve seen that before - it`s very good. I`d have loved to have lived down this way pre-Beeching. When you look at the old railway maps it`s unbelievable how many tiny villages and hamlets were connected to the rail network and, while not perhaps having a station, had at least a halt. If you want a good read, seek out The Train Now Departed which has a big section on the North Cornwall railway which went from Launceston to Padstow via places like Egloskerry (which was recorded as having the lowest passenger numbers in the whole of the country!)

Also, if you (or anyone else for that matter) is interested Channel 5 have got Walking Cornwall`s Lost Railways with Rob Bell on tonight at 9pm.

As far as the inland alternative route is concerned though I doubt it will ever be reinstated fully - it`s more likely IMO that an inland loop avoiding Dawlish will be the solution in the end.

[Merrick's Marvels]

5 hours ago, lenred said:

On a serious note though, everything about Bristol politics has always been far far too passive - no one, regardless of party colour, ever fights our corner. Far more interested in batting things down rather than making positive improvements and as we seem a passive lot down here as well nothing ever gets done about it. 

Agreed.

For all his faults, old Red Trousers is the only Council leader I can remember who spent his time in office promoting Bristol to the outside world. He stood as an Independent. Which says it all - historically, Labour and Tories have spent their time looking inwards, absorbed by small time party politics, achieving bugger all. None more so than the current incumbent, who talks the talk, then talks some more, and some more again, but has never got anything of note - i.e. that benefits all Bristolians - actually done. Nice suits, no substance. (And that's from someone predisposed to vote for him!)      

[Dr Balls]

4 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Agreed.

For all his faults, old Red Trousers is the only Council leader I can remember who spent his time in office promoting Bristol to the outside world. He stood as an Independent. Which says it all - historically, Labour and Tories have spent their time looking inwards, absorbed by small time party politics, achieving bugger all. None more so than the current incumbent, who talks the talk, then talks some more, and some more again, but has never got anything of note - i.e. that benefits all Bristolians - actually done. Nice suits, no substance. (And that's from someone predisposed to vote for him!)      

Msrvin’s biggest “achievement” so far has been to cancel the arena, leaving a bridge to nowhere, plus an area cleared and detoxified for a few more blocks of student flats, and supposedly an exhibition centre. No sign of anything so far. Plus he has a few questions to answer with regard to his involvement with the developers of Filton airfield and the supposed Brabazon arena.

In the meantime, in part due to his decisions to divert investment away from it, the centre of Bristol is slowly dying (M&S latest to leave Broadmead) and Marvin has no answers to reverse the trend. As for his proposal of an underground in Bristol, it would suggest that he has no idea of the city’s geography, plus it would cost billions that will never come from the Treasury. Less a tube dream more a pipe dream!

[fgrsimon]

7 hours ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

Yeah, I`ve seen that before - it`s very good. I`d have loved to have lived down this way pre-Beeching. When you look at the old railway maps it`s unbelievable how many tiny villages and hamlets were connected to the rail network and, while not perhaps having a station, had at least a halt. If you want a good read, seek out The Train Now Departed which has a big section on the North Cornwall railway which went from Launceston to Padstow via places like Egloskerry (which was recorded as having the lowest passenger numbers in the whole of the country!)

Also, if you (or anyone else for that matter) is interested Channel 5 have got Walking Cornwall`s Lost Railways with Rob Bell on tonight at 9pm.

As far as the inland alternative route is concerned though I doubt it will ever be reinstated fully - it`s more likely IMO that an inland loop avoiding Dawlish will be the solution in the end.

It kind of has to happen one way another if Global Warming continues as the Dawlish line will keep getting washed out despite the millions spent on flood defences. It's a dire situation having all rail west of Exeter reliant on one very vulnerable section of track. 

I don't think any reinstated Meldon line necessarily needs to be mainline standards, just capable of being a diversionary route from time to time. Today's passenger trains have weight distributed more evenly over the whole train than the old loco plus coaches formations. For freight, Class 66s are quite capable of traversing the Cornish clay branches, even the tortuous little line to Moorswater, so a rebuilt line wouldn't be a problem for them. 

Then it would be a choice between reinstating the Meldon line or an inland route between Exeter and Newton Abbott possibly including the mothballed Heathfield line. Not sure which would be cheaper? 

 

 

[James54De]

On 21/10/2021 at 21:19, Rich said:

This smacks of delay followed by cancellation. The government are in dire need of funding for various projects and just to keep the country running.

No doubt there will be some sort of announcement referring to the environmental impact against the possible advantages of the reopening. They'll site projected lower use due to the effects of the pandemic, against increased traffic flow to the P&R aspects of the new line, after asking for another feasibility study.

This has been happening to the greater Bristol area for as long as I can remember. It matters not which political party is in power. They know we'll just put up and, shut up. The funding was withdrawn for our metro by Dawn Primarolo in the nineties, after Bristol's Labour council argued the toss with the Lib Dem South Glos council over the termination of the line.

Anything that has been built in Bristol has nearly always been from private funding, or by the council and the ratepayers themselves. Bristol had to fund the Royal Portbury dock with no government aid. Nissan wanted to build their car plant at Royal Portbury, the then Labour government refused to licence it, instead offering financial inducements to locate it in Sunderland. We've had to compete with decades of financial bribery offered to firms to locate/relocate to south Wales, with quite a few leaving Bristol to subsidize their profits.

Our centre for the performing arts on the Harbourside was granted funding of £100m, only for it to be taken away and given to the Covent Garden Opera house. The very successful Commonwealth Museum was taken from Bristol at TM and taken to London. We receieve far less funding than any core city and most other Cities and towns in the UK, due to the "Barnet formula". Quite frankly, after spending a day in Cardiff recently, which the BBC chose to relocate the long standing successful TV programme "casualty", from Bristol and learning that they're planning "another" Arena on top of the one they've already got, I can honestly say I'm totally pissed off with it.

If we have a Labour council, we get a Conservative government and vice versa, who then tend to irritate central government, so we tend to never get the rewards that other cities do. And I really believe it's because we don't fight hard enough or, shout loud enough, similar traits could be aimed at the supporters of football in the city. 

Motorpoint arena in cardiff is quite frankly, shite. New one is nowhere near. Bristol will have two decent arenas long before cardiff ever does. 

[TV Tom]

16 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

Every man woman and child in Wales receives an additional £5,200 per annum under the Barnett Formula which they can splurge on whatever they want, not necessarily anything they need. Scots receive about twice that.

Which recalls the most expensive football matches in history.

In planning the London Olympics both the SNP and Scottish Labour Party played their anti English cards highlighting that north of the border there were to be no events, they'd been forgotten/ ignored even though it was the 'London Olympics'. English riding rough shod over the Scots blah, blah, blah. Being thick the bigoted politicians missed the bigger picture and allowed Westminster off the hook. So in a blaze of publicity both Government and organisers publicly announced they'd conceded to Scottish criticism and awarded 8 football fixtures to be played at Hampden Park (both men's and women's tournaments.) The Scottish wouldn't backtrack for fear of losing face and claimed this a great victory for everything tartan. They didn't mention it's pyrrhic nature.

First fixture fewer than 9k saw Salah net for Egypt in their demolition of Belarus. Stadium was less than half full to see Japan scrape past an impotent Spain (not so you'd recognise most of their line up.)

And as to what the politicos failed to tell the electorate? Had those 8 matches not taken place on Scottish soil the Olympic Organisers ( aka UK Government's bankroll,) would have had to pay the Scottish Government somewhere in excess of £900m in Barnett compensation. Each ticket sold 'cost' the Scots £7,500 in 'lost' income. Strange Wee Jimmy Krankie never mentions that.....

How do the Welsh receive this £5200 ? Genuine question 

[lenred]

17 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Agreed.

For all his faults, old Red Trousers is the only Council leader I can remember who spent his time in office promoting Bristol to the outside world. He stood as an Independent. Which says it all - historically, Labour and Tories have spent their time looking inwards, absorbed by small time party politics, achieving bugger all. None more so than the current incumbent, who talks the talk, then talks some more, and some more again, but has never got anything of note - i.e. that benefits all Bristolians - actually done. Nice suits, no substance. (And that's from someone predisposed to vote for him!)      

Likewise I’m very much predisposed to vote for him but as @Dr Ballshas articulately put above Marvin is a complete and utter *hit show and very lucky to be voted in again. Red Trousers has his faults but at least he got stuff done as you say.  
 

In related news Sunak will announce £540m funding for transport in the West of England at the budget so hopefully some of that will help progress to continue on the Metro https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/23/english-cities-transport-budget-greater-manchester-west-midlands?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[lenred]

10 hours ago, James54De said:

Motorpoint arena in cardiff is quite frankly, shite. New one is nowhere near. Bristol will have two decent arenas long before cardiff ever does. 

It’s a bit old and tired now, but how many incredible acts have Cardiff had over the years that we as a city have missed out on, couple that with all the extra revenue that brings to the city? Madness we have never had anything to compete.  

5 hours ago, harrys said:

How do the Welsh receive this £5200 ? Genuine question 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnett_formula

[Dr Balls]

1 minute ago, lenred said:

Likewise I’m very much predisposed to vote for him but as @Dr Ballshas articulately put above Marvin is a complete and utter *hit show and very lucky to be voted in again. Red Trousers has his faults but at least he got stuff done as you say.  
 

In related news Sunak will announce £540m funding for transport in the West of England at the budget so hopefully some of that will help progress to continue on the Metro https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/23/english-cities-transport-budget-greater-manchester-west-midlands?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Only being a bit cynical but that’s just slightly more than they “saved” by “postponing” (I.e. cancelling) the electrification of the Great Western lines to Temple Meads, Oxford and Swansea a few years ago. From an environmental perspective, given we really need to electrify all of our railways, it made no sense, and as per usual it’s Bristol that gets shafted. Also from a passenger perspective, it’s now come out that when the hybrid trains run on diesel, passengers on board experience the highest levels of nitrogen dioxide (a pollutant) of any rail passengers in the country. Thanks again Mr Grayling and the Tories - slower, more expensive trains, that pollute more and put the passengers at additional risk, to save less than 1% of the overall cost of HS2.

[Dr Balls]

24 minutes ago, lenred said:

Likewise I’m very much predisposed to vote for him but as @Dr Ballshas articulately put above Marvin is a complete and utter *hit show and very lucky to be voted in again. Red Trousers has his faults but at least he got stuff done as you say.  
 

In related news Sunak will announce £540m funding for transport in the West of England at the budget so hopefully some of that will help progress to continue on the Metro https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/23/english-cities-transport-budget-greater-manchester-west-midlands?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Apparently the money in the West of England is for a “fully prioritised” bus route between Bristol and Bath, whatever that really means. I am guessing more roadworks, and bus lanes, although how that works through somewhere like Saltford I have no idea.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59017503

Of course, there is a decent rail line between the 2 cities that could have a few new stations added, and avoid any of the road traffic issues, but that would be too obvious!

[lenred]

12 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

Apparently the money in the West of England is for a “fully prioritised” bus route between Bristol and Bath, whatever that really means. I am guessing more roadworks, and bus lanes, although how that works through somewhere like Saltford I have no idea.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59017503

Of course, there is a decent rail line between the 2 cities that could have a few new stations added, and avoid any of the road traffic issues, but that would be too obvious!

Ah the article I read didn’t actually say what the money was for so I stupidly assumed some of it would go on what’s actually needed!  What an absolute piss take. So disappointing and unnecessary as you say.  Who actually makes these decisions. And why is it our region they always seems to get it so so so wrong when it comes to transport.  

[Merrick's Marvels]

32 minutes ago, TomF said:

It’s basically improving the A4 with bus lanes. The current railway line provides a 12-15 minute service between the two and runs every 15 minutes at peak hours. It’s just embarrassing how much money we’ve wasted on buses last decade 

Have they not noticed the bus lanes are already there?! With no room to build more along most of that route, I can't think what they intend to spend the money on - a very expensive re-tarmacing job?? It's a route that desperately needs less traffic on it not more and, like you say, an alternative is staring them in the face - better trains. Numpties. 

[lenred]

18 minutes ago, TomF said:

The lack of a regional transport authority for decades in the main reason why. But also the mess of Avon and then infighting between the subsequent regional UA's has also put paid to any sensible transport solution. 

We're miles behind the likes of Manchester/Nottingham/Sheffield etc.

 

Indeed.  Although it seems even with a transport authority now the decision making remains flawed at best. 

[Dr Balls]

35 minutes ago, lenred said:

Indeed.  Although it seems even with a transport authority now the decision making remains flawed at best. 

Isn’t transport part of the Metro mayor’s responsibility? Of course, the Tories in North Somerset didn’t want to be part of the “West of England” because it would be too “Bristol-centric” and then Marvin blocked them joining more recently because he didn’t want them hijacking funding. Its the usual spats in local government worsened by having 4 relatively small unitary authorities who struggle to see eye-to-eye on anything, so not much ever gets done. It’s what did for the tram project between Bristol and South Glos. That said it was little better under Avon…

[lenred]

44 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

Isn’t transport part of the Metro mayor’s responsibility? Of course, the Tories in North Somerset didn’t want to be part of the “West of England” because it would be too “Bristol-centric” and then Marvin blocked them joining more recently because he didn’t want them hijacking funding. Its the usual spats in local government worsened by having 4 relatively small unitary authorities who struggle to see eye-to-eye on anything, so not much ever gets done. It’s what did for the tram project between Bristol and South Glos. That said it was little better under Avon…

Indeed it is:

 

‘The Bristol to Bath Corridor project is being led by the West of England Combined Authority’…..https://travelwest.info/projects/improvements-on-a4-bristol-to-bath

‘The Combined Authority was set up in 2017 to make decisions and investments that benefit people living and working in Bath and North East Somerset, Bristol and South Gloucestershire…..’ https://www.westofengland-ca.gov.uk/about-us/who-we-are/

The tram project was a travesty.  How these local politicians can genuinely say they are making the best decisions for their constituents is incredible really. 

[Rich]

14 hours ago, James54De said:

Motorpoint arena in cardiff is quite frankly, shite. New one is nowhere near. Bristol will have two decent arenas long before cardiff ever does. 

Confident in that are you?

At least they have an arena.

Their new arena is planned for Cardiff Bay, within 1000 metres of the central train station, hardly nowhere near.

Our planned arena, that hasn't had a stitch of work carried out on it, is about 6 miles from the centre of Bristol. Likewise the one planned as a dual use tiny in comparison arena at AG, is two miles away from central Bristol. And I'd only bet on the AG one actually happening.

 

[BTRFTG]

10 hours ago, harrys said:

How do the Welsh receive this £5200 ? Genuine question 

As a grant payment made from Westminster Government to Welsh Government. It's pro rata populous and paid for anything that's directly benefits England but not Wales or Scotland.

[TV Tom]

5 hours ago, lenred said:

It’s a bit old and tired now, but how many incredible acts have Cardiff had over the years that we as a city have missed out on, couple that with all the extra revenue that brings to the city? Madness we have never had anything to compete.  

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnett_formula

So each individual person doesn’t see £5000 go into their account, how does your average man on the street get any benefit?

[BTRFTG]

1 minute ago, harrys said:

So each individual person doesn’t see £5000 go into their account, how does your average man on the street get any benefit?

They receive services others of us in England have to pay for.

[lenred]

3 minutes ago, harrys said:

So each individual person doesn’t see £5000 go into their account, how does your average man on the street get any benefit?

Sorry literally no idea what your talking about. Quoted the wrong post maybe? 

[TV Tom]

1 hour ago, BTRFTG said:

They receive services others of us in England have to pay for.

So they don’t get ready cash, so what are these services that people in Cardiff or Newport get that I don’t get? 

[BTRFTG]

9 minutes ago, harrys said:

So they don’t get ready cash, so what are these services that people in Cardiff or Newport get that I don’t get? 

Anything Welsh Assembly Government wishes to provide them (and importantly it doesn't have to be spent on infrastructure.) Its largely why prescriptions are free to all and there's huge spending on promoting Welsh heritage, culture and language even in areas where most are unable to follow what's going on.

I don't follow your preoccupation with 'cash' as all bar a few payments made on that basis to members of the public are via Westminster not any devolved authority.

 

[BS3_RED]

17 hours ago, James54De said:

Motorpoint arena in cardiff is quite frankly, shite. New one is nowhere near. Bristol will have two decent arenas long before cardiff ever does. 

Clueless. Cardiff start building theirs early next year ( I live in Newport)

[TV Tom]

1 hour ago, BTRFTG said:

Anything Welsh Assembly Government wishes to provide them (and importantly it doesn't have to be spent on infrastructure.) Its largely why prescriptions are free to all and there's huge spending on promoting Welsh heritage, culture and language even in areas where most are unable to follow what's going on.

I don't follow your preoccupation with 'cash' as all bar a few payments made on that basis to members of the public are via Westminster not any devolved authority.

 

Someone earlier in the thread said that every man woman and child receive £5200 per annum, I was just curious how and in what way they received this and how it benefits your normal Joe public

[Redtucks]

3 hours ago, BS3_RED said:

.......( I live in Newport)

Shouldn't you be renamed NP1_RED???

 

[BS3_RED]

11 hours ago, Redtucks said:

Shouldn't you be renamed NP1_RED???

 

:laugh: Nah. I will always be a bemmy lad.

[Rich]

On 23/10/2021 at 19:59, harrys said:

Someone earlier in the thread said that every man woman and child receive £5200 per annum, I was just curious how and in what way they received this and how it benefits your normal Joe public

The quote was: "Every man woman and child in Wales receives an additional £5,200 per annum under the Barnett Formula which they can splurge on whatever they want, not necessarily anything they need. Scots receive about twice that"    That someone earlier was BTRFTG, who you directed the question to.

It actually states "under the Barnett Formula". This means that the extra £5200 per person is paid to the Welsh government and not to Joe public, they then use it so say, for the benefit of Joe public.

I've done a little looking into this and found that the benefits Welsh Joe public receive are, free prescriptions for anyone. In England, although 90% get this free, the other 10% have to pay, even if they have a chronic illness and struggle to keep a roof over their head and feed and clothe their children. Free bus travel for over 60's. In England we currently have to wait seven years longer. A subsidised council owned bus service. The infrastructure invested in, to provide facilities for Joe public to use, such as the existing Arena, plus the New arena being built. The electrification of the valley rail network, with new lines being built across Cardiff and to the Cardiff Bay, the money for this upgrading and new lines, is coming from the Welsh budget and the UK government £125m. Link: South Wales Metro, United Kingdom (railway-technology.com). They've had massive investment compared to this region.

In reality, I think it's more to do with what we don't get, or haven't got. There is also a disparity within England, due to that same Barnet formula, felt more probably in this region, due to our proximity to Wales. Other cities close to both Wales and Scotland also receive healthy subsidies due to that same formula, so maybe don't suffer the same inequalities as Bristol does. Bristol is I believe, the only core city with a net contribution towards the UK economy. All other core cities receive more than they pay in from central government grants. Perhaps this is part of the reason they all have decent arenas', good transport systems, good sporting facilities. The less well off within our area, who maybe can't afford to travel around various other parts of the country, are denied access to top quality performing artists, as a result, and those that can afford to travel, have to pay more and are inconvenienced.

[CyderInACan]

10 minutes ago, Rich said:

Bristol is I believe, the only core city with a net contribution towards the UK economy.

It’s certainly true that we’re one of only a few (at most) regions that contributes positively to the exchequer. 

Basically we get effed in return. It doesn’t help that we have a mayor who’s presided over the majority of the absolute scandal that is Bristol Energy as well as spunking as-yet-unknown sums on the pre-feasibility studies (guess what, they recommended moving to actual feasibility studies) on the underground project  as well as the Western Harbour fiasco. 

If Marv (or one of his family) doesn't end up a consultant or director of YTL or L&G I’ll be staggered.  

The thick end of £50 million being lost by Bristol Energy will f u ck this city for years to come. 

[TV Tom]

10 hours ago, CyderInACan said:

It’s certainly true that we’re one of only a few (at most) regions that contributes positively to the exchequer. 

Basically we get effed in return. It doesn’t help that we have a mayor who’s presided over the majority of the absolute scandal that is Bristol Energy as well as spunking as-yet-unknown sums on the pre-feasibility studies (guess what, they recommended moving to actual feasibility studies) on the underground project  as well as the Western Harbour fiasco. 

If Marv (or one of his family) doesn't end up a consultant or director of YTL or L&G I’ll be staggered.  

The thick end of £50 million being lost by Bristol Energy will f u ck this city for years to come. 

Not that i’m sticking up for this useless mayor as I blame the numptys who thought it was a good idea to have a mayor in the first place but wasn’t Bristol energy the brainchild of the previous mayor?

[elhombrecito]

On 21/10/2021 at 21:38, Rich said:

I agree that we are successful but, we still have no Arena, we still have no transport system, we still have no athletics stadium, we still have no Olympic sized pool. I doubt any cities we currently compete with for events suffer with this lack of infrastructure funding. When I say compete, I meant to say, we think about it, then don't bother, as we can't compete.

Thank goodness for the entrepreneurs' of Bristol, the likes of Steve Lansdown and Wael Al Qadi, who've put their money where their mouth is to provide great facilities/tents for the city's football clubs.

To be fair, there is a public Olympic sized swimming pool five minutes walk from my house here in South Bristol...

[BTRFTG]

13 hours ago, Rich said:

The quote was: "Every man woman and child in Wales receives an additional £5,200 per annum under the Barnett Formula which they can splurge on whatever they want, not necessarily anything they need. Scots receive about twice that"    That someone earlier was BTRFTG, who you directed the question to.

It actually states "under the Barnett Formula". This means that the extra £5200 per person is paid to the Welsh government and not to Joe public, they then use it so say, for the benefit of Joe public.

I've done a little looking into this and found that the benefits Welsh Joe public receive are, free prescriptions for anyone. In England, although 90% get this free, the other 10% have to pay, even if they have a chronic illness and struggle to keep a roof over their head and feed and clothe their children. Free bus travel for over 60's. In England we currently have to wait seven years longer. A subsidised council owned bus service. The infrastructure invested in, to provide facilities for Joe public to use, such as the existing Arena, plus the New arena being built. The electrification of the valley rail network, with new lines being built across Cardiff and to the Cardiff Bay, the money for this upgrading and new lines, is coming from the Welsh budget and the UK government £125m. Link: South Wales Metro, United Kingdom (railway-technology.com). They've had massive investment compared to this region.

In reality, I think it's more to do with what we don't get, or haven't got. There is also a disparity within England, due to that same Barnet formula, felt more probably in this region, due to our proximity to Wales. Other cities close to both Wales and Scotland also receive healthy subsidies due to that same formula, so maybe don't suffer the same inequalities as Bristol does. Bristol is I believe, the only core city with a net contribution towards the UK economy. All other core cities receive more than they pay in from central government grants. Perhaps this is part of the reason they all have decent arenas', good transport systems, good sporting facilities. The less well off within our area, who maybe can't afford to travel around various other parts of the country, are denied access to top quality performing artists, as a result, and those that can afford to travel, have to pay more and are inconvenienced.

London is by a country mile the largest net contributor to the UK economy.

It's also not the case that Barnett applies to England. It doesn't, but regions do receive block grants from Westminster, which of course themselves increase the contributions made to the devolved administrations.

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, elhombrecito said:

To be fair, there is a public Olympic sized swimming pool five minutes walk from my house here in South Bristol...

And, in defence of North Somerset, there’s a very public, Olympic size, swimming pool just outside Gordano School every time it rains heavily. 

[GrahamC]

19 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

London is by a country mile the largest net contributor to the UK economy.

It's also not the case that Barnett applies to England. It doesn't, but regions do receive block grants from Westminster, which of course themselves increase the contributions made to the devolved administrations.

Yep, London & Bristol are the only 2 core cities that are net contributors.

[Rich]

3 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

London is by a country mile the largest net contributor to the UK economy.

It's also not the case that Barnett applies to England. It doesn't, but regions do receive block grants from Westminster, which of course themselves increase the contributions made to the devolved administrations.

Sorry, I thought that went without saying, as London and the south east produces something like 75% of the country's income.

[Rich]

4 hours ago, elhombrecito said:

To be fair, there is a public Olympic sized swimming pool five minutes walk from my house here in South Bristol...

You're correct. I looked up South Bristol pool and it gave the figures as 30 Metres long. That was the council site and if I was being cynical, I'd say it's a way of not referring to it's proper name of, Jubilee Swimming pool.

[redysteadygo]

39 minutes ago, Rich said:

You're correct. I looked up South Bristol pool and it gave the figures as 30 Metres long. That was the council site and if I was being cynical, I'd say it's a way of not referring to it's proper name of, Jubilee Swimming pool.

Surely we mean swimming baths? 

The Pool was in W-S-M now inappropriately called Tropicana.

[Rich]

5 minutes ago, redysteadygo said:

Surely we mean swimming baths? 

The Pool was in W-S-M now inappropriately called Tropicana.

Sorry, I'm not understanding your reference to the Tropicana.

 

[redysteadygo]

2 minutes ago, Rich said:

Sorry, I'm not understanding your reference to the Tropicana.

 

I'll fall for the woosh.

Previous comments referring to swimming pools and not swimming baths. Or is it I'm old school in remembering the not so fancy terms we used back in the 50s.

[Oizys]

17 hours ago, Rich said:

 

I've done a little looking into this and found that the benefits Welsh Joe public receive are, free prescriptions for anyone. In England, although 90% get this free, the other 10% have to pay, even if they have a chronic illness and struggle to keep a roof over their head and feed and clothe their children. 

 

I had to look into that myself as it seemed extremely high...and I think you've misread this.  It's actually only 40% of the population that get free prescriptions.  It's just that 90% of dispensed items are prescribed to this 40% due to the elderly (in particular) and children generally being prescribed more than those that pay.

[Robbored]

9 minutes ago, Steve Watts said:

I had to look into that myself as it seemed extremely high...and I think you've misread this.  It's actually only 40% of the population that get free prescriptions.  It's just that 90% of dispensed items are prescribed to this 40% due to the elderly (in particular) and children generally being prescribed more than those that pay.

https://www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/prescriptions-and-pharmacies/who-can-get-free-prescriptions/
 

This will sort the uncertainty out!

[BTRFTG]

25 minutes ago, Robbored said:

https://www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/prescriptions-and-pharmacies/who-can-get-free-prescriptions/
 

This will sort the uncertainty out!

Not quite - it excludes quite a sizeable chunk of prescriptions written, namely those for in-patient treatment. Those aren't paid for by the recipient.

[elhombrecito]

3 hours ago, Rich said:

You're correct. I looked up South Bristol pool and it gave the figures as 30 Metres long. That was the council site and if I was being cynical, I'd say it's a way of not referring to it's proper name of, Jubilee Swimming pool.

Not sure what Jubilee has to do with anything... Hengrove Leisure Centre has a 50m pool... 

[The turtle]

35 minutes ago, elhombrecito said:

Not sure what Jubilee has to do with anything... Hengrove Leisure Centre has a 50m pool... 

Having swam in it I can confirm it does 

[Lanterne Rouge]

47 minutes ago, The turtle said:

Having swam in it I can confirm it does 

Were you returning to the beach where you hatched?

[James54De]

On 23/10/2021 at 17:30, harrys said:

So they don’t get ready cash, so what are these services that people in Cardiff or Newport get that I don’t get? 

Free prescriptions; greatly increased grants for students; quicker doctor appointments; etc. 

On 23/10/2021 at 18:03, BS3_RED said:

Clueless. Cardiff start building theirs early next year ( I live in Newport)

I live in cardiff. Not got planning permission yet, nor even Business case agreements. This has also been in the works since ~2007. Even if everything goes swimmingly from now it’s been accepted it won’t be open till at least 2025. 

Plus, the Motorpoint is almost certainly being knocked down rather soon.

Who's clueless now?

Edited October 25, 2021 by James54De

[TV Tom]

40 minutes ago, James54De said:

Free prescriptions; greatly increased grants for students; quicker doctor appointments; etc. 

I live in cardiff. Not got planning permission yet, nor even Business case agreements. This has also been in the works since ~2007. Even if everything goes swimmingly from now it’s been accepted it won’t be open till at least 2025. 

Plus, the Motorpoint is almost certainly being knocked down rather soon.

Who's clueless now?

Sounds great, might move to Merthyr Tydfil 

[lenred]

1 hour ago, James54De said:

Free prescriptions; greatly increased grants for students; quicker doctor appointments; etc. 

I live in cardiff. Not got planning permission yet, nor even Business case agreements. This has also been in the works since ~2007. Even if everything goes swimmingly from now it’s been accepted it won’t be open till at least 2025. 

Plus, the Motorpoint is almost certainly being knocked down rather soon.

Who's clueless now?

It’s not going to be demolished before the proposed Bay arena is built though. Wouldn’t have thought Live Nation would allow it without massive recompense. It’s got acts booked through 2022. 

[The turtle]

On 25/10/2021 at 19:38, Lanterne Rouge said:

Were you returning to the beach where you hatched?

Hatched, damn dangerous trip after; absolute life or death

[Rich]

On 25/10/2021 at 17:15, elhombrecito said:

Not sure what Jubilee has to do with anything... Hengrove Leisure Centre has a 50m pool... 

When I googled "South Bristol Pool" the information giving the size was listed. Unfortunately, that information referred to the Jubilee pool, not the One at the Hengrove Sports centre, which I thought was called the South Bristol Pool, as that is what it was called initially. Jubilee has always been known as that.

[Rich]

On 25/10/2021 at 15:23, Steve Watts said:

I had to look into that myself as it seemed extremely high...and I think you've misread this.  It's actually only 40% of the population that get free prescriptions.  It's just that 90% of dispensed items are prescribed to this 40% due to the elderly (in particular) and children generally being prescribed more than those that pay.

Yes, thanks, I should have read further into the report. So the figure for those having to pay for prescriptions in England at 60%, is even higher and, more waited in favour of the Welsh population, not that I begrudge them it . Just wish we had the same spending on us this side of the bridge.

[BS3_RED]

On 25/10/2021 at 19:02, James54De said:

Free prescriptions; greatly increased grants for students; quicker doctor appointments; etc. 

I live in cardiff. Not got planning permission yet, nor even Business case agreements. This has also been in the works since ~2007. Even if everything goes swimmingly from now it’s been accepted it won’t be open till at least 2025. 

Plus, the Motorpoint is almost certainly being knocked down rather soon.

Who's clueless now?

Directly from the council,

 

These are the dates set out by Cardiff Council:

• September 2021: Cabinet decision on the Full Business Case and Delivery Agreement;

• October 2021: Contract award notice issued and developer to submit planning application;

• February 2022: Planning decision and initial site works to begin;

• March 2022: Contract signed;

• April 2022: Construction begins;

• Arena opens end of 2024.

So to say its nowhere near is clueless. Like I said they plan to start building early next year. Two to three years would be around the correct construction time for an arena allowing for the inevitable problems etc.

Edited October 27, 2021 by BS3_RED

[Never to the dark side]

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/shapps-urged-to-consider-busway-alternative-to-restoration-of-portishead-rail-line-12-01-2022/

[Monkeh]

33 minutes ago, TomF said:

That busway campaign bloke is an utter tool. Why the NCE are even giving him airtime is beyond me. His ‘plan’ is total nonsense 

Bus from park and ride to temple meads 18 minutes?

Has this bloke ever been in the city during rush hour?

[Red Billy]

37 minutes ago, TomF said:

That busway campaign bloke is an utter tool. Why the NCE are even giving him airtime is beyond me. His ‘plan’ is total nonsense 

I live in Pill and it would be great to hop on a train on match days into Ashton. I’m not sure if it really makes much difference if it is a train or a bus I just can’t see enough people using it to make it a financially viable option. Four of us drive and pay a tenner parking on match days and a couple of quid on fuel where as public transport is 20 pound. It doesn’t pay to catch public transport (unless we are having a few beers! ) If the council and government are serious about getting cars off the road then whatever the alternative they provide it needs to be convenient and cheaper. Having to wait for nearly an hour for a bus if it turns up at all is not tempting people to using public transport. 

[Port Said Red]

11 minutes ago, Red Billy said:

I live in Pill and it would be great to hop on a train on match days into Ashton. I’m not sure if it really makes much difference if it is a train or a bus I just can’t see enough people using it to make it a financially viable option. Four of us drive and pay a tenner parking on match days and a couple of quid on fuel where as public transport is 20 pound. It doesn’t pay to catch public transport (unless we are having a few beers! ) If the council and government are serious about getting cars off the road then whatever the alternative they provide it needs to be convenient and cheaper. Having to wait for nearly an hour for a bus if it turns up at all is not tempting people to using public transport. 

But looking at the route this guy is suggesting, the bus would get nowhere near Pill, it would be redirected over the M5 bridge and on to the Sea Mills side of the river. 

A cynic would suggest that the only reason the government is giving this time, is to delay having to commit to the rail line.

[pongo88]

The bumf about pollution from diesel trains is misleading as hydrogen powered trains are already running on the network 

[Red Billy]

1 hour ago, TomF said:

Living in Pill his plan wouldn’t even cover you - the railway line from the docks to Bedminster Jnc would still remain.  

Very true. There are a few residents in Portishead who see Pill as an inconvenience.

[bcfc01]

2 hours ago, Red Billy said:

I live in Pill and it would be great to hop on a train on match days into Ashton. I’m not sure if it really makes much difference if it is a train or a bus I just can’t see enough people using it to make it a financially viable option. Four of us drive and pay a tenner parking on match days and a couple of quid on fuel where as public transport is 20 pound. It doesn’t pay to catch public transport (unless we are having a few beers! ) If the council and government are serious about getting cars off the road then whatever the alternative they provide it needs to be convenient and cheaper. Having to wait for nearly an hour for a bus if it turns up at all is not tempting people to using public transport. 

Buy a boat 

[Monkeh]

2 hours ago, TomF said:

Living in Pill his plan wouldn’t even cover you - the railway line from the docks to Bedminster Jnc would still remain.  

The railway line from the docks to parson St jn is live and still runs frieght