Why are pyros/flares banned? .... They're just a bit of harmless fun!

[AshtonPark]

16 minutes ago, TRL said:

Deaths or no deaths there are plenty of stories out there of many people requiring hospitalisation due to smoke, I am sure the NHS can do without this type of influx on match day, and those who are effected certainly can do with out it, even more so if self employed

 

I am not going to post them here,as I am sure everyone is capable of searching.  It wasn't long ago a mate of mine was hospitalised in Eindhoven about this time last year due just this type of thing.

You won’t search for it, as you know full well you won’t find any, but fair enough let’s just make up pointless facts without backing it up.

This is the third and final time I am asking this, answer it, ignore it. Entirely up to you.

How do thousands upon thousands of people around the world cope with it? How do stadiums FULL of pyro cause no issues etc.

Im not expecting you to come up with a good reply, as most of your posts so far has been nothing to do with it.

One last point you still have failed to explain, is how can a civilised member of the EU allow it when it has to be signed off by so many people in that profession. Are you saying a fully qualified police person, fire person know better than you? 

[cidered abroad]

The OP should see the effect on my wife, who has asthma, if the next door neighbours light a BBQ and the wind is blowing in our direction. If I'm quick, get her inside the house and shut all our windows, she might be OK. But otherwise things like a 999 call and visit to casualty will ensue.

And you want me to have this at football? Go play with your fireworks in a deserted old factory out of the way from all others.

Words like "inconsiderate, selfish and father unknown come to mind".

 

[TRL]

1 minute ago, AshtonPark said:

This is the third and final time I am asking this, answer it, ignore it. Entirely up to you.

How do thousands upon thousands of people around the world cope with it? How do stadiums FULL of pyro cause no issues etc.

Im not expecting you to come up with a good reply, as most of your posts so far has been nothing to do with it.

with my example in Netherlands, my mate was taken in with 15-20 other fans who were having real difficulties breathing.  At the end of the day hospital hospitals get full of people with breathing difficulties, now how other counties run their health systems is largely down to them,  be it the way we fund it or via insurance, either way every week A&E's around the world are taking in people from grounds with breathing difficulties and are doing a great job ensuring people can make it home...  why should this influx if patients happen when it can be nipped in the bud, and burden taken of  health services in what ever country it happens in?

 

Now maybe you can give me a good reason to allow them?  other than "well they do itm so we should be able to" which isn't a good reason

[WhistleHappy]

5 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

The OP should see the effect on my wife, who has asthma, if the next door neighbours light a BBQ and the wind is blowing in our direction. If I'm quick, get her inside the house and shut all our windows, she might be OK. But otherwise things like a 999 call and visit to casualty will ensue.

And you want me to have this at football? Go play with your fireworks in a deserted old factory out of the way from all others.

Words like "inconsiderate, selfish and father unknown come to mind".

 

Whoosh... 

I'm on your wife's side mate...  

(ps .. had a good life with my father, thanks, until he passed away in 1996... nice bit of ' inconsiderate '  irony eh?)

[Anglo-Welsh]

1 hour ago, cidered abroad said:

The OP should see the effect on my wife, who has asthma, if the next door neighbours light a BBQ and the wind is blowing in our direction. If I'm quick, get her inside the house and shut all our windows, she might be OK. But otherwise things like a 999 call and visit to casualty will ensue.

And you want me to have this at football? Go play with your fireworks in a deserted old factory out of the way from all others.

Words like "inconsiderate, selfish and father unknown come to mind".

 

Feel for your wife and hear your side of the argument, but I also hear what @AshtonPark is saying. All over Europe on a weekly basis, in countries deemed civilised, many in the G8 of nations, fans are lighting pyro throughout the game is stadiums containing upwards of 40k spectators. Some of whom must undoubtedly have certain helath ailments or conditions, yet there are never any problems. 

Not calling anyone a liar or down playing the health symptoms of anyone, I'm simply stating it seems bizarre to me that all these other countries are fine but when it comes to England/Scotland we expect people to start dropping dead when someone sets a smoke bomb off.

[TRL]

6 minutes ago, Anglo-Welsh said:

Feel for your wife and hear your side of the argument, but I also hear what @AshtonPark is saying. All over Europe on a weekly basis, in countries deemed civilised, many in the G8 of nations, fans are lighting pyro throughout the game is stadiums containing upwards of 40k spectators. Some of whom must undoubtedly have certain helath ailments or conditions, yet there are never any problems. 

Not calling anyone a liar or down playing the health symptoms of anyone, I'm simply stating it seems bizarre to me that all these other countries are fine but when it comes to England/Scotland we expect people to start dropping dead when someone sets a smoke bomb off.

There are loads of problems, people heading of to hospitals on a weekly basis, it doesn't get headlines as there have been no reported deaths (that I am aware of).

 

The issue is long term health problems and the unnecessary visits to A & E on a already over stretched NHS.  If you can stop it happening, why wouldn't you for the sake of some coloured smoke and flames that will be enjoyed by some but not by all.

 

It really is a no brainer for me.  The negatives far outweigh the benefits

[Davefevs]

Didn’t someone who posts on here’s daughter get hit by one last season / season before because someone panicked and threw it?

[BTRFTG]

1 hour ago, AshtonPark said:

You won’t search for it, as you know full well you won’t find any, but fair enough let’s just make up pointless facts without backing it up.

This is the third and final time I am asking this, answer it, ignore it. Entirely up to you.

How do thousands upon thousands of people around the world cope with it? How do stadiums FULL of pyro cause no issues etc.

Im not expecting you to come up with a good reply, as most of your posts so far has been nothing to do with it.

One last point you still have failed to explain, is how can a civilised member of the EU allow it when it has to be signed off by so many people in that profession. Are you saying a fully qualified police person, fire person know better than you? 

Try the 2016 report on 'Pyrotechnics in Stadia'  that UEFA comissioned which reviewed practices in all those EU loving nations you quote and whose executive summary (the one signed off by an eminent subject specialist) read: "The report concludes that there are significant health and safety risks arising from their use in 
close proximity to other people and in contravention of the safety distances which are specified on 
the pyrotechnic articles themselves. All pyrotechnic devices have a “safety” distance for good 
reason and which will exceed the available space within a crowded stand or stadium. It is not 
safe, therefore, for any pyrotechnic device to be used in spectator areas within football stadia."

If bothering to read the report I suggest doing so before eating, the photographs within the 'injuries' chapter are not for the feint hearted.

[TRL]

9 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Try the 2016 report on 'Pyrotechnics in Stadia'  that UEFA comissioned which reviewed practices in all those EU loving nations you quote and whose executive summary (the one signed off by an eminent subject specialist) read: "The report concludes that there are significant health and safety risks arising from their use in 
close proximity to other people and in contravention of the safety distances which are specified on 
the pyrotechnic articles themselves. All pyrotechnic devices have a “safety” distance for good 
reason and which will exceed the available space within a crowded stand or stadium. It is not 
safe, therefore, for any pyrotechnic device to be used in spectator areas within football stadia."

If bothering to read the report I suggest doing so before eating, the photographs within the 'injuries' chapter are not for the feint hearted.

Its only a bit of harmless fun... page 43 ouch

 

I hope that wasn't his you know what hand!

[viewfromthetrees]

Flares my seem harmless and fun but they’re not always.   Some years ago myself and four friends saw Wales V Romania at Cardiff,  (I know, long story).   Anyway, after the final whistle some idiots set off a yacht flare.   It flew straight across the pitch and into the stand where we sat.   I remember hearing a fizz, looking up and seeing a guy two seats away grasping at his neck.   He slumped forward and blood poured down the steps in front of us.   He died instantly and the memory stays with me.   

no matter how safe some flares might be there’s always an idiot that brings the wrong sort.

I don’t want to be around to see if it’s a safe flare or not.

[reddoh]

9 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I once spent new year in Norway, and New Year's Eve in Stavanger culminated in climbing up a steep hillside overlooking the town and letting off fireworks at midnight.  When I say letting off fireworks I mean holding them in your hand, lighting them and then throwing them in the air before they went off.  Flaming carnage, and by the time we came down the hillside had frozen so you had to slide.  What's the opposite of health and safety gone mad?

dam enog ytefas dna htlaeh fo etisoppo eht s'tahw.

[22A]

Flares inside stadia - banned.

People enjoying themselves in an old tradition - accepted.

This is Stonehaven in Scotland; burning barrels in the street and burning tubs carried on heads.

This is Carlton Hill, Edinburgh on 30th April with paying spectators just ten feet away. Yes males & females are only wearing loin cloths!

 

[SecretSam]

As an asthmatic, I am very grateful.

Still, maybe I am a snowflake too coddled by modern health and safety culture.

Or maybe I want to actually see the game clearly, preferably without choking?

[Bris Red]

I think they look fantastic, 100% adds to the atmosphere. I watched internazionale in the milan derby a few years back at the san siro and christ what an atmosphere there was in that place, the H&S brigade have killed it for us in this country unfortunately.

[RedLionLad]

2 hours ago, bris red said:

I think they look fantastic, 100% adds to the atmosphere. I watched internazionale in the milan derby a few years back at the san siro and christ what an atmosphere there was in that place, the H&S brigade have killed it for us in this country unfortunately.

6

A shark in a kiddie's paddling pool would add to the atmosphere.....doesn't make it alright.

 

[BTRFTG]

2 hours ago, bris red said:

the H&S brigade have killed it for us in this country unfortunately.

Yeah, Ibrox ( twice), Burnden Park, Valley Parade, Hillsborough -  the Health and Safety Executive really have taken the fun out of football.

And if....you know...your history, you'd appreciate that the Milans play in the Stadio Guiseppe Meazza. You'd also know that the two worst football disasters ( Lima and Accra) both occured when fans rushed to avoid asphyxiation after police fired smoke gas cannisters into the stands.

But what price life when there's 'atmosphere' at stake?

[RedLionLad]

Worth a read....


https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/football-flares-new-campaign-launched-6364602

[SecretSam]

18 hours ago, bris red said:

The H&S brigade have killed it for us in this country unfortunately.

Yeah, absolutely, greed, inequitable distribution of wealth, an inability to think long term, a longing for past glories and an inability to adapt to our role in the modern world are as nothing compared to "Health and Safety".

BTW, H&S is actually a very specific area, and not the catch all that people use lazily to encompass all legislation designed to protect the many from the actions of the few.  But perhaps you'd prefer people working on high buildings not to have safety ropes, regulation around building site management and so forth, with consequent threat to the lives of workers, those in the vicinity and property in general?  Or perhaps allowing kids to just wander into building sites, whatever?

Perhaps a trip to Qatar might be in order, to see some of the horrors out there.  Still, very little health and safety regulation, so that must be the place to be.

[Three Lions]

23 hours ago, Anglo-Welsh said:

Feel for your wife and hear your side of the argument, but I also hear what @AshtonPark is saying. All over Europe on a weekly basis, in countries deemed civilised, many in the G8 of nations, fans are lighting pyro throughout the game is stadiums containing upwards of 40k spectators. Some of whom must undoubtedly have certain helath ailments or conditions, yet there are never any problems. 

Not calling anyone a liar or down playing the health symptoms of anyone, I'm simply stating it seems bizarre to me that all these other countries are fine but when it comes to England/Scotland we expect people to start dropping dead when someone sets a smoke bomb off.

Willem II allowed pyro at a training session. It is bizarre. Pryo is common in many Countries.

 

 

 

 

 

[Anglo-Welsh]

18 hours ago, bris red said:

I think they look fantastic, 100% adds to the atmosphere. I watched internazionale in the milan derby a few years back at the san siro and christ what an atmosphere there was in that place, the H&S brigade have killed it for us in this country unfortunately.

Well said, agree entirely. Been to see Ajax and Willem in Holland and Deportivo Lanzarote in Spain, pyro everywhere, no injuries or deaths, great atmosphere that makes Ashton Gate look poor.

I think the health and safety brigade, who do raise valid concerns, will always win this argument though.

[NickJ]

Love the official club statement:

The club's Twitter page added: "The celebrations didn't go 100% according to plan because the open top bus caught fire. Nobody got injured, which was the most important thing. How very rock 'n roll."

 

[WhistleHappy]

3 hours ago, NickJ said:

Love the official club statement:

The club's Twitter page added: "The celebrations didn't go 100% according to plan because the open top bus caught fire. Nobody got injured, which was the most important thing. How very rock 'n roll."

 

And now they're …..

 ' Happy, Happy, Happy,  Like a Bus Without A Roof ' 

[LordNinian]

Just a point of clarification in relation to posts 18 and 40. It was not a flare. It was a distress rocket.  I was also at the Romania Wales game and saw the rocket fly across the Arms Park from the South to North stands at the end of the game. Unlike the dreadful experience of poster 40, we did not know what it was or what had actually happened until some hours after the game. A similar death occurred in 1979 at a Lazio-Roma game when a distress rocket was fired from the Curva Sud.

[Donkeeebles]

On 21/05/2018 at 16:00, Davefevs said:

Didn’t someone who posts on here’s daughter get hit by one last season / season before because someone panicked and threw it?

Unfortunately yes, mine

Charlton away, the day we appointed LJ 

 

I hold him fully responsible 

[nathredwood]

On ‎21‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 09:38, AshtonPark said:

That unsafe that a civilised European country, have deemed it safe? Even with insurance and training. 

Also in Norway I’m pretty sure that isn’t the case, you need to fill out an a4 form which is sent to, the club, the fire brigade, the police, the FA all to sign an agree.

Now all of those have to agree it is safe wouldn’t you say?

Guns are legal in America. Should we allow hand guns into Football stadiums?

[Phileas Fogg]

7 minutes ago, nathredwood said:

Guns are legal in America. Should we allow hand guns into Football stadiums?

[AshtonPark]

1 hour ago, nathredwood said:

Guns are legal in America. Should we allow hand guns into Football stadiums?

Surely that goes back to. It’s dangerous in the hands of the person with it?

im pretty sure you could kill people with many things that are legally in a football ground. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

9 minutes ago, AshtonPark said:

Surely that goes back to. It’s dangerous in the hands of the person with it?

im pretty sure you could kill people with many things that are legally in a football ground. 

That’s true

Have you tried the Cheese & Onion pasties

[Wolf Island]

On 24/05/2018 at 22:49, Donkeeebles said:

Unfortunately yes, mine

Charlton away, the day we appointed LJ 

 

I hold him fully responsible 

Also happened in the South stand last season and the poor fella protecting his kid got ejected by heavy handed security staff.

 

But apparently missiles and fire are ‘fun’. 

Anyone caught trying to smuggle these items into a match should be made to put it in their coat pocket and set it off and see how much fun they think it is after that.