DUNDER - Now announced

[phantom]

21 hours ago, Spoons said:

Get a grip !

and use the ENTER key 

[havanatopia]

On 03/06/2018 at 19:07, Spud55 said:

No it doesn't, it doesn't sum anything up at all, so your implying that alcoholism and debts run up by over spending can be stopped by a well meaning family member? That's rubbish and you know it. 

My whole point is that business is there to make money and nothing more, there are immoral practices in every industry you cannot single out one industry for your moral indignation yet didn't have a pop at lancer Scott for being part of an industry that is at least partly the cause of 71 deaths at grenfell. Where was your moral outrage there? 

Do you know for a fact that Dunbar or whoever they are are doing anything immoral or targeting vulnerable individuals specifically to get their money? Or are you basing your judgement on them solely on your perception of the industry as a whole? If so then you cannot make that argument while not accepting that any sponsor is part of an immoral industry. 

My other point is that there is only one person responsible for their own actions and that is them. I do not understand why people offering a legitimate and legal service are responsible for those individuals who choose to abuse it.

If gambling was like tobacco when it is absolutely not possible to do it without causing harm, smoking may not kill you but it is certainly going to do you harm. Then I would agree ,but the fact is most people do not ruin their lives gambling so I do not see the problem with us having a gambling company as our sponsor. 

 

I am not implying anything whatsoever. 

I think you are getting a bit angry for no reason. I have an opinion and so do you. Reasoned discussion about gambling and how it affects the vulnerable i thought was what we were talking about.

It is my opinion that gambling advertising causes irresponsibility especially amongst the poor and vulnerable. You suggest it is their fault if they get hopelessly into debt. Strictly speaking you are right of course. But does this mean they are obliged to get themselves out of it without any help? Leaving the companies to line their pockets at will? 

To use construction as a reasoned comparison is disingenuous at best. We may as well say everything we touch, smell, inhale or use carries a risk and is equal to gambling or worse which brings us right the way back to the origin of this discussion which is no discussion at all if you wish to compare it to life itself. So i think this about ends where either of us need to discuss further. Certainly for me anyway. 

[Olé]

On 05/06/2018 at 14:59, EnderMB said:

For me, it'd have to be because Dunder (or their parent company) is paying us a LOT more than what we were getting from Lancer Scott, and unless they're doing some hardcore fiddling of the books in Malta I can't see how it can be for the kind of money we'd need to push onwards.

Out of interest, what's your source for MT Securetrade numbers (you mentioned looking at the parent company in your prior post)? The thing about Gaming operators is they are very tax efficient (location etc) and hard to accurately estimate revenues from the outside (they're effectively small tech firms with absolutely huge marketing budgets - things like staff numbers, offices, assets won't correlate to the scale of revenue they produce).

But MT Securetrade is not the top of the tree. It is owned by GIG which is a public company on the Oslo stock exchange. It has been highly acquisitive buying or investing many millions in other businesses. It has assets of over €200m and revenues in just the last quarter were double what City make in a year. As marketing is their biggest spend, and they must want to grow this Dunder brand, I don't share your doubts about the size of this deal.

https://www.gig.com/ir/2018/gig-reports-fourth-quarter-revenues-up-29-from-third-quarter-2017-and-up-86-fr/2D03B279CED2C9F8

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaming_Innovation_Group

For what it's worth, I've visited and done business with MT Securetrade in Malta in the past (used to be known as Guts Gaming) and they were small in terms of office space, people, but very well run - size of businesses like this has no correlation to revenue. Also having multiple casinos is zero measure of their scale, once you've invested in the tech and operating staff, you just white-label it to your hearts content into any URL you get your hands on!

EDIT: GIG total Group marketing expenses in last quarter - fairly conclusive on the amount of money they could chuck at a football shirt deal: "Marketing expenses of EUR 13.1 million, compared to EUR 11.9 million in Q3 2017 and EUR 7.0 million in Q4 2016"

[BS4 on Tour...]

On 03/06/2018 at 12:07, Spud55 said:

If gambling was like tobacco when it is absolutely not possible to do it without causing harm, smoking may not kill you but it is certainly going to do you harm....

My great grandmother smoked 60 a day for many years, lived until she was 98 - no health problems until the very end, not smoking related.....too many ill-informed ‘experts’ on here....

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

On 05/06/2018 at 12:28, Red-Robbo said:

Dunder means thunder in Swedish. 

I did say when I worked with the guys establishing the operation that they might do better if the name was in English.

Look better on a footie shirt too....

I hope next season's playing performances are not like the latter half of last.....right out of the thunderbox.

[ukneil]

Apologies if it has already been covered,  but I wonder if kid sizes of replica shirts will carry the sponsor's name,  or have the option to not have it? I seem to remember you used to be able to buy shirts without the sponsor for a couple of quid extra,  might be a while ago now?

I don't have an extreme view on this,  but it seems reasonable to at least have the option to not have your kid be a walking advert for a gambling company...