RedM Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 7 minutes ago, Hellfire Corner said: If this comes about, then joining “Frank Lampard’s Derby” will be “Thierry Henry’s Aston!” That will **** off their fans if everyone keeps calling them that. I expect they got used to it by being John Terry’s Aston Villa last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Appeals are still ongoing there... I agree though- if they lose again and still refuse to play ball the EFL at the first available close season should ballot the other 71 clubs- subject to legal advice, maybe to be legally safe- QPR too and say: 'If QPR still keep dragging this out, do you want them as a member of the EFL anymore?' If there is a unanimous vote against then demote them to the Conference perhaps! I bet they will all refuse to chuck them out thinking only for the grace of a God That could be us. Got to feel for the clubs that donabide by the rules and struggle because of doing so, but if others go unpunished I can see them saying sod it and take the risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, RedM said: I bet they will all refuse to chuck them out thinking only for the grace of a God That could be us. Got to feel for the clubs that donabide by the rules and struggle because of doing so, but if others go unpunished I can see them saying sod it and take the risk. Sounds about right tbh. Agree though, not fair on clubs such as us who abide by the rules. Still have belief of embargos and points deductions for a number of sides this year and next without big sales, but it's purely based on estimates and most importantly, a proper application of the rules! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 4 minutes ago, RedM said: I bet they will all refuse to chuck them out thinking only for the grace of a God That could be us. Got to feel for the clubs that donabide by the rules and struggle because of doing so, but if others go unpunished I can see them saying sod it and take the risk. The Bournemouth breach for the 2014/15 season was finally settled this month for £4.75m. Quote Bournemouth have paid £4.75million to settle a dispute with the English Football League over the club's financial results in the 2014-15 season before their Premier League promotion. The EFL claimed that Bournemouth breached its Financial Fair Play rules at the time but the dispute was paused while those rules were subjected to a legal challenge by Queens Park Rangers. https://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/bournemouth-settle-financial-dispute-efl The initial fine was £7.6m so these things are clearly open to negotiation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRobartes Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 9 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Appeals are still ongoing there... I agree though- if they lose again and still refuse to play ball the EFL at the first available close season should ballot the other 71 clubs- subject to legal advice, maybe to be legally safe- QPR too and put to the vote, something to the effect of: 'If QPR still keep dragging this out, do you want them as a member of the EFL anymore?' If there is a unanimous vote against then demote them to the Conference perhaps! If the Conference would take them! I think the FL should change the rules to bar entry to any club that doesn't pay their dues. It would have been really nice if the PL had refused to admit QPR unless they paid up at once, but obviously there was never a chance in hell of that happening. Maybe they should replace the fines with points deductions but that'll also never happen. I really hate football sometimes. 5 minutes ago, RedM said: I bet they will all refuse to chuck them out thinking only for the grace of a God That could be us. Got to feel for the clubs that donabide by the rules and struggle because of doing so, but if others go unpunished I can see them saying sod it and take the risk. Exactly right RM. QPR decided that because they were going up they didn't need to worry about abiding by the rules and paying their well-earned fine. It's funny that they were suddenly concerned about how unfair it was as soon as they were relegated and needed to play in the FL again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 25 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: FWIW I think Lampard would do reasonably well at Derby, he seemed pretty tactically aware, as a player. Henry at Villa? Not so sure. He would definitely encourage attacking football but with certain big ex players you often can find that the players they manage don't- because they can't- live up to the quality of the manager, teams they have played for and it can cause problems down the line. Their basketball skills will improve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 Even the £7.6m was a cheap price to pay to get to the Premiership for them, and now they got a decent reduction and are an established side up there. Who ever said cheats don’t prosper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 1 minute ago, MichaelRobartes said: If the Conference would take them! I think the FL should change the rules to bar entry to any club that doesn't pay their dues. It would have been really nice if the PL had refused to admit QPR unless they paid up at once, but obviously there was never a chance in hell of that happening. Maybe they should replace the fines with points deductions but that'll also never happen. I really hate football sometimes. Exactly right RM. QPR decided that because they were going up they didn't need to worry about abiding by the rules and paying their well-earned fine. It's funny that they were suddenly concerned about how unfair it was as soon as they were relegated and needed to play in the FL again. Point deductions and possibly even in extreme cases demotion from top 2 to top 6 or top 6 to outside playoffs are all on table now. How it could be administered fairly and with consistency...is the issue. I don't think any club would ultimately get expelled over FFP, but if they changed the rules (you wouldn't get unanimity on it so pointless to try IMO) it would be a useful deterrent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Peacock Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 18 minutes ago, DT The Optimist said: What a brilliant player he was, how does being a brilliant player transfer across to be great man manager, great coach, great tactician. So many great players graced the game who failed as managers good news for us. Might be fake news but let’s see I quite agree. I am struggling to think of many great players who turned out to be great managers. Dalglish, but that is going back a bit, there must be others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 1 hour ago, RedM said: There does seem to be an emerging trend of clubs appointing names over experience once again. This has happened so many times in the past and nearly always ended in tears. Wonder of Terry knew this and bailed out Terry will probably be back at Villa as manager by Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, Drew Peacock said: I quite agree. I am struggling to think of many great players who turned out to be great managers. Dalglish, but that is going back a bit, there must be others? Hughes hasn't done to bad for himself, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, Drew Peacock said: I quite agree. I am struggling to think of many great players who turned out to be great managers. Dalglish, but that is going back a bit, there must be others? Moysie ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRobartes Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 On topic, this would be great for me as I can't stand Henry and I can't stand Villa. Perfect match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, Drew Peacock said: I quite agree. I am struggling to think of many great players who turned out to be great managers. Dalglish, but that is going back a bit, there must be others? I had to google it as I couldn't get beyond Dalglish. That was the only Brtish one in the listing I looked at; the rest are European: Cryuff, Guardiola. https://www.90min.com/posts/2820480-7-of-football-s-most-successful-players-who-became-great-coaches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 7 minutes ago, Drew Peacock said: I quite agree. I am struggling to think of many great players who turned out to be great managers. Dalglish, but that is going back a bit, there must be others? Was Dalglish à ' great ' manager ? Didn't he inherit a fantastic Liverpool squad and staff ? At Blackburn didn't he just buy all the best players with Walker's millions ? As for Celtic , I suppose he won the League , most of us on OTIB could do that " managing " them. What did he win at Newcastle ? I wouldn't call him a great manager, a competent and lucky one , sublime player though . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 Just now, Major Isewater said: Was Dalglish à ' great ' manager ? Didn't he inherit a fantastic Liverpool squad and staff ? At Blackburn didn't he just buy all the best players with Walker's millions ? I wouldn't call him a great manager, sublime player though . Oi, let us have one example please! (Though I mostly agree) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Peacock Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 1 minute ago, Major Isewater said: Was Dalglish à ' great ' manager ? Didn't he inherit a fantastic Liverpool squad and staff ? At Blackburn didn't he just buy all the best players with Walker's millions ? I wouldn't call him a great manager, sublime player though . But even if you buy all the best players you still have to get them working as a team etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Rollason Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 Just like to add...What a mature balanced and interesting thread this is..carry on.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 Much rather see these new managers coming into the game rather than the same old failed managers that still keep getting jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 I even had a Renault Clio… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archie andrews Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 44 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said: wouldn't mind Thierry at BCFC We'd end up with Lenny Henry.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 15 minutes ago, MichaelRobartes said: If the Conference would take them! I think the FL should change the rules to bar entry to any club that doesn't pay their dues. It would have been really nice if the PL had refused to admit QPR unless they paid up at once, but obviously there was never a chance in hell of that happening. Maybe they should replace the fines with points deductions but that'll also never happen. I really hate football sometimes. Exactly right RM. QPR decided that because they were going up they didn't need to worry about abiding by the rules and paying their well-earned fine. It's funny that they were suddenly concerned about how unfair it was as soon as they were relegated and needed to play in the FL again. The big change in the ffp rules was that they were agreed and approved by the premier league as well. The other major change was, I think, brought about by the WPR ad Bournemouth situations, i.e. once promoted to the premier league they were beyond sanction by the EGL and in any event, the financial penalties were pittance for a premier league club - when Bournemouth are considering paying £50m for a couple f players, a £5m fine is next to nothing! The big change is that the assessment is based on a rolling 3 year period, but with projected accounts being taken for the 3rd year. This means that if a club is going to breach then penalties can be levied during the third year. On the back of that the penalties now include points deductions and depriving a club of promotion, even if it's been achieved (although I'm not sure if this is through points deduction). This means that promotion does not put a club beyond the reach of the EFL sanctions, and the reason for a club risking a breach of ffp ( the financial riches gained from promotion) can be taken away. It is an interesting read, going onto the Villa forum since their situation "blew up" in the summer. To an even greater degree than on here, it is clear that so many of their fans just don't get the impact and scope of the financial rules. Read one post suggesting that ffp rules were introduced by the premier league only to protect the top 6 clubs and prevent other clubs muscling in on their territory. Another post suggested the new owners will relish a legal fight with the EFL in order to knock them back . They fail to see that ffp was designed to safeguard clubs from the same perilous financial position Villa found themselves earlier in the summer, when they were in real danger of being forced into administration by the tax man, as a result of the financial profligacy of their owner, in his vain attempts to secure premier league promotion. Not that any of us would want any club to go to the wall, but it perhaps needed Villa to collapse so that the wider football world would once and for all understand that the exponential increase in spending on transfer fees and absurd players wages is unsustainable. Among the moronic and head in the sand posts, there were a number that did say that the way they have been operating could not continue. Those posters said they needed to shed the "big club" philosophy, that tinges many posts , and adjust their strategy to a more financially sustainable one. Some of those posts also accepted that throwing money at expensive, big name players was not the answer and perhaps they might need to accept a few seasons in the championship, getting rid of the players creating the financial millstone and bring in more affordable players that would have a sell on value in the future, and making more of their academy - ring any bells? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddoh Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 23 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said: Oi, let us have one example please! (Though I mostly agree) Sir Brian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderMB Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 2 hours ago, JoeAman08 said: What I don’t get is this new investors thing. How does that help them avoid ffp? If it doesn’t why would he take the job? Still a solid squad there but he couldn’t put his stamp on it. It would be a weird one for me. I remember reading something about a possible challenge against any sanctions due to new owners, similarly to how AC Milan have got around their UEFA sanctions. Essentially, let the club take in large debts against one owner, and then bring in a new owner, have him write-off a lot of the debt, invest his own money, and claim that because the debt was written off under a new owner that everything is now fine. The club won't go bust, therefore FFP has done its job. It's a bold strategy, especially with an unproven manager at the helm, but we'll see how things go. I think they could be a surprise this season, and I think highly of Henry for taking this job knowing the pitfalls he faces. The last thing you want to be is the face of the club when FFP cripples them the next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 8 minutes ago, archie andrews said: We'd end up with Lenny Henry.... Or Paul Henry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 1 minute ago, EnderMB said: I remember reading something about a possible challenge against any sanctions due to new owners, similarly to how AC Milan have got around their UEFA sanctions. Essentially, let the club take in large debts against one owner, and then bring in a new owner, have him write-off a lot of the debt, invest his own money, and claim that because the debt was written off under a new owner that everything is now fine. The club won't go bust, therefore FFP has done its job. It's a bold strategy, especially with an unproven manager at the helm, but we'll see how things go. I think they could be a surprise this season, and I think highly of Henry for taking this job knowing the pitfalls he faces. The last thing you want to be is the face of the club when FFP cripples them the next season. This was Alan Sugar's argument for Spurs; the breaches had taken place under the previosu regime who had now left so why should the new owners be punished when they hadn't breached any rules? I can see that it can work in that case if you buy the club without being aware of the previous dodgy dealings but if you buy a club being fully aware of that club's breach of FFP and level of debts then that will be reflected in the purchase price so the same argument doesn't apply IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 2 hours ago, JoeAman08 said: What I don’t get is this new investors thing. How does that help them avoid ffp? If it doesn’t why would he take the job? Still a solid squad there but he couldn’t put his stamp on it. It would be a weird one for me. Not sure the new owner thing is about avoiding ffp issues. I think it is/was more about Xia selling 55% of the club to raise the money that was desperately needed to pay immediate bills ( tax man?) and clear debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhistleHappy Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 2 hours ago, Rocky said: If they're meeting today, it's to give him the chop. Crazy. Ohh FFS... He's not going to be happy then... He ordered the steak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, WhistleHappy said: Ohh FFS... He's not going to be happy then... He ordered the steak. Think he might have ordered the full mixed grill! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhistleHappy Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 13 minutes ago, downendcity said: Or Paul Henry! Benny Henry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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