Pre Season - Excitement or slight dismay?

[Bris Red]

On 28/07/2018 at 14:00, Port Said Red said:

 

He's tried throwing money at the problem and got burned. The club have been completely open and clear about how they are trading currently and going forward, so I am not quite sure why anyone would be disappointed when they follow that path.

If loaning the likes of Stern John and signing people like David James  Nicky Hunt and the many other woeful dealings we did between 2008 and 2013 was ‘throwing money at it’ then christ i dont know what you would call what Wolves and many other clubs have done to get out of this league... SL has never thrown real money at getting us to the promised land IMO..

obviously FFP has seen a stop to it happening even if SL wanted it too but i cant help but look at other chairman’s (Brightons Tony Bloom for example) and think these guys seem much more serious in there quest for top flight football. 

It is what it is in a way and Reid , Flint and probably Bryan all want/wanted out which is fair enough, you wish them all the best and get as large a fee as you can for them which we have done and I applaud the club for it. But for me you can sugar coat it all you want, selling our best players is never a positive, we should have strengthened better in January and have reached the Prem with Reid and Flint still on the books.. the jury is out for me on the new players untill we have got the season underway, it would be naive to call anything ‘good business’ at this early stage.

[Davefevs]

On 29/07/2018 at 05:17, Dastardly and Muttley said:

I think what we now have is a squad suited to play the way LJ wants to play.

No doubt last season’s cup run would have boosted our reputation. We’ve used that to sign three first team players from established Championship clubs in Webster (Ipswich), Hunt ( Weds) and Weimann (Lampard). When was the last time we signed a true established Championship player?

When you look closely at our squad, we seem to have a range of options in different positions, especially in attack. COD, Adelakun, Paterson, Weimann, Watkins, Eliasson... all promising options. Whether they’ll all turn out the way we hope, no one knows but it’s an exciting group.

I think we’re missing our version of Kante- someone who can tackle, grab the game by the scruff of its neck and give the ball to the aforementioned attackers. But these players are in short supply, for now a combination of Pack and Smith will have to do until we find/develop that player. For all our academy has produced, it’s yet to deliver a true, quality midfielder - I have hopes that Bakinson may be that man, though.

It’s been an interesting off season, and I’m a couple of Scotch’s in to my Saturday night now, so I’m really looking forward to what is going to happen in the coming months. We knew Reid and Flint were going, the way we’ve replaced them is different to the way in which City have normally operated in the transfer market. Let’s see how it goes.

I’m cautiously optimistic.  I think we will make a slow start, but improve as players gel.  We’ve got several players, done of them the new ones, who’ve not been able to complete a full pre-season, and I think we will be a bit of a slow-burner, but as players return / become 100% fit (physical and match), we won’t see the best of City.  The likes of Adelakun and Watkins will provide very good competition across the forward line, Diedhiou will be back in September, and as September ends I expect us to be at full-strength.

If we can get Ruddy, I'll raise my expectations a little more.

At the start of the Close season, I said I would rate LJ from a clean slate.  I think at this point in time, he’s had a good window, he’s not talking (too much) shite, and I think he’s above average.  He really should have recruited for how he wants to play.  There’s little left of Cotts squad for him to argue it’s not his squad.  Forget the number of windows, so often taken out of context, this is now LJ’s side.  Time to deliver.

[Phileas Fogg]

On 28/07/2018 at 22:20, downendcity said:

One of the criticisms of the England team was that they lacked leaders on the pitch.

However, without then  so called "big names" of the previous golden generation, we saw a young squad, most of whom have grown up through the junior England set ups together, What this gave us was a proper team , playing for each other and the manager, with whom most have developed as England players. 

There are a lot of similarities with us.  Through the academy set up and our player strategy we are building a young squad developing together, and hopefully this will mean that they want to play for each other . Others have commented that a few of these players have developed very well under LJ's coaching, so it is not impossible that they will want to play for him. 

Perhaps also like England, we do need that one experienced player, probably in midfield, to provide leadership out on the pitch and help with game management, but perhaps that player is already here and will develop this attributes on the pitch. A Paul Hartley type  player would be the ideal, but was he born as the midfield general he was when here, or did he develop those attributes through his on pitch experience? Perhaps we have that type of player already here, and he just needs to develop leadership on the pitch?

 

And ultimately we lost when it mattered.

All theoretical but had we had Beckham, Scholes, Lampard or Gerrard of the 2000’s playing against Croatia, I think we’d have probably won. Sometimes a bit of guile and quality in midfield makes the difference, and it did in that game.

[City Ben]

I think one point about our progression, or lack of desire from SL to really “go for it” with funds, is whether we’d actually be able to execute this spending even if we wanted to. 

Clubs don’t come from nowhere and spend loads of cash nowadays. Players won’t go to them. Wolves were already an impressive, established club. 

On the other hand we have been building. Two years ago we ain’t signing Weimann from Villa. 

Maybe just maybe there is a plan in place. A plan with stages. And if it goes to this plan, in a season or too we will be in a position to put a bit more money behind it all. As consistent top 12 finishes have given potential signings confidence in us. Just maybe. 

[Phileas Fogg]

12 hours ago, core321 said:

Well I hope you all happy with continued huge turn over of players, continual rotation of players to find a winning formula, continued buzz word crap from LJ and a season of continual struggle. What happened to everyone's dream of the PL? Your all happy with Johnson family love in..I just don't get it. I guess you would all walk away and never return if a major investor took over and pumped in millions to the playing staff and management? Yeah..no thanks, as long as I can bounce up and down for little Lee and have my pint of gold each Saturday, break out your bubble's, you will get a shock this season.

This must be Thatch or Tinman on a different account.. all the hallmarks are there.. deep rooted and poorly disguised hatred of Johnson, demand for unrealistic players, refusal to acknowledge sensible counter argument and generally poor reasoning skills.. have any mods done an IP address check?

[Guest]

5 hours ago, downendcity said:

I've  rearranged your last 2 paragraphs:

It costs Villas big bucks to challenge for promotion. There is no magic formula/plan to make the prem...just spend money if we want to become a cropper and pay the price. 

As for doing the championship on the cheap, more accurately that should read doing the championship within what the club can afford ( that's Bristol City FC, not billionaire Steve Lansdown ). Villa didn't do it on the cheap and have almost been put into administration because they cant pay the taxman - not what I want for my club!

 

We could have should have matched the likes of Fulham and Cardiff in the spend/transfer stakes; its VERY frustrating to see them where they are and then us a "happy" mid table club. Our last window was a joke and just about sums up our intentions.

Our present window efforts has no doubt brought us...more money in the bank...peanuts compared to what we could get if we ever decide to take a chance and go for it one day.

I.M.O. this windows transfer money shouldn't have been spread so thin, less players better quality...nothing against the 2 lower div strikers brought in but would it not been better to go for 1 better one? did/do we really need them both considering what we have already.

We are going to "run around a lot" high pressing the "in" term, time will tell if that will keep us where we want to be.

[Phileas Fogg]

1 minute ago, Bri Stool City said:

We could have should have matched the likes of Fulham and Cardiff in the spend/transfer stakes; its VERY frustrating to see them where they are and then us a "happy" mid table club. Our last window was a joke and just about sums up our intentions.

Our present window efforts has no doubt brought us...more money in the bank...peanuts compared to what we could get if we ever decide to take a chance and go for it one day.

I.M.O. this windows transfer money shouldn't have been spread so thin, less players better quality...nothing against the 2 lower div strikers brought in but would it not been better to go for 1 better one? did/do we really need them both considering what we have already.

We are going to "run around a lot" high pressing the "in" term, time will tell if that will keep us where we want to be.

People don’t seem to understand the idea that spending doesn’t always equal success. Failure whilst spending beyond our means would harm our future prospects far more than failure whilst spending within our means.

[kiwicolin]

On 28/07/2018 at 13:25, PFree said:

I get why SL wants to run City as a business, it isn't a Charity after all. That' said if City is his real passion as he suggests, I do wonder why he doesn't go after that Premiership dream whilst he still has his youth and health?

I've followed City for over 30 years and been a ST for most of those but being honest, I try not to expect anything going into a season as at least then I am never too disappointed!

What saddens me most is to see home grown and developed youngsters leaving as they too don't see us reaching the promised land anytime soon (If ever). It's great that we invest in the "talent of tomorrow", it helps balance the books as far as possible but will it realistically ever get us to the ultimate level?

I look at what Leeds and Forest have done in the closed season and having seen what Wolves did the season, I can't help but be envious of how excited their f as must be. Okay, you can't buy success but on the balance of probability, it certainly significantly improves your chances?

Leeds are a nightmare,  with the owner , and the amount of managers they have had. The same with Nottingham forest,  to many changes. Both foreign owners. At least Bristol City is owned by a Bristolian and a true supporter. SL has spent millions on the stadium and players, and helped other Bristol sports to develop, and become their own identity.  Yes it would be nice to be in the premiership,  one day, but not at the cost of the club. But is it all good , as we have seen clubs get to the promise land , and faltered.  For me , I would be happy in the championship for a while longer yet. When an opportunity comes , then take it , and hopefully be in a better shape to stay  in the premiership,  for years to come. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

People don’t seem to understand the idea that spending doesn’t always equal success. Failure whilst spending beyond our means would harm our future prospects far more than failure whilst spending within our means.

It doesn't ALWAYS but sometimes it does, we had money from our 2 main transfers out, that alone (or with a little bit more) could have brought better quality in, instead of half a new team. Any better quality players brought in would not do too much harm as we would  have them to sell on....hey they may even push us forward to a promotion challenging team.

Without a doubt big spenders will be at the top of our division....that wont be us for sure.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, kiwicolin said:

Leeds are a nightmare,  with the owner , and the amount of managers they have had. The same with Nottingham forest,  to many changes. Both foreign owners. At least Bristol City is owned by a Bristolian and a true supporter. SL has spent millions on the stadium and players, and helped other Bristol sports to develop, and become their own identity.  Yes it would be nice to be in the premiership,  one day, but not at the cost of the club. But is it all good , as we have seen clubs get to the promise land , and faltered.  For me , I would be happy in the championship for a while longer yet. When an opportunity comes , then take it , and hopefully be in a better shape to stay  in the premiership,  for years to come. 

we had an opportunity last xmas, one that will be a long time coming again, SL didn't want to take it, preferring the gently, gently way. Cardiff and Fulham thought otherwise.

Bournemouth, Brighton, Burnley, Cardiff, Palace, Hudders, Fulham; prem teams now, what are they doing right that we aren't.

They are not planning/building for the future they are there.

[Phileas Fogg]

56 minutes ago, Bri Stool City said:

It doesn't ALWAYS but sometimes it does, we had money from our 2 main transfers out, that alone (or with a little bit more) could have brought better quality in, instead of half a new team. Any better quality players brought in would not do too much harm as we would  have them to sell on....hey they may even push us forward to a promotion challenging team.

Without a doubt big spenders will be at the top of our division....that wont be us for sure.

Yes and ‘sometimes’ equalling success isn’t a low enough risk for us to spend beyond our means. 

I think we’ve bought pretty well really, and aiming to be a sustainable club is a very good attitude to have. Our 2013 relegation was largely down to assembling a squad full of expensive deadwood. From Coppell leaving we were rudderless with problems at every level. 

It’s taken us years to regroup from that, I don’t think anyone wants such an embarrassing relegation from a team who put up a pathetic fight like that again.

[Port Said Red]

8 hours ago, bris red said:

If loaning the likes of Stern John and signing people like David James  Nicky Hunt and the many other woeful dealings we did between 2008 and 2013 was ‘throwing money at it’ then christ i dont know what you would call what Wolves and many other clubs have done to get out of this league... SL has never thrown real money at getting us to the promised land IMO..

obviously FFP has seen a stop to it happening even if SL wanted it too but i cant help but look at other chairman’s (Brightons Tony Bloom for example) and think these guys seem much more serious in there quest for top flight football. 

It is what it is in a way and Reid , Flint and probably Bryan all want/wanted out which is fair enough, you wish them all the best and get as large a fee as you can for them which we have done and I applaud the club for it. But for me you can sugar coat it all you want, selling our best players is never a positive, we should have strengthened better in January and have reached the Prem with Reid and Flint still on the books.. the jury is out for me on the new players untill we have got the season underway, it would be naive to call anything ‘good business’ at this early stage.

Well buying/acquiring and paying those old stages must have cost a few quid considering how much debt he has had to write off over the years.

[PFree]

3 hours ago, kiwicolin said:

Leeds are a nightmare,  with the owner , and the amount of managers they have had. The same with Nottingham forest,  to many changes. Both foreign owners. At least Bristol City is owned by a Bristolian and a true supporter. SL has spent millions on the stadium and players, and helped other Bristol sports to develop, and become their own identity.  Yes it would be nice to be in the premiership,  one day, but not at the cost of the club. But is it all good , as we have seen clubs get to the promise land , and faltered.  For me , I would be happy in the championship for a while longer yet. When an opportunity comes , then take it , and hopefully be in a better shape to stay  in the premiership,  for years to come. 

Sincerely hope I am wrong but I expect both Leeds and Forest to finish well above us this season. I understand your point Colin but can't help but feel the current ambition at those clubs is of a much stronger nature..

[Monkeh]

3 hours ago, Bri Stool City said:

We could have should have matched the likes of Fulham and Cardiff in the spend/transfer stakes; its VERY frustrating to see them where they are and then us a "happy" mid table club. Our last window was a joke and just about sums up our intentions.

Our present window efforts has no doubt brought us...more money in the bank...peanuts compared to what we could get if we ever decide to take a chance and go for it one day.

I.M.O. this windows transfer money shouldn't have been spread so thin, less players better quality...nothing against the 2 lower div strikers brought in but would it not been better to go for 1 better one? did/do we really need them both considering what we have already.

We are going to "run around a lot" high pressing the "in" term, time will tell if that will keep us where we want to be.

match Cardiff and Fulham? they've had the benefit of paracute payments we don't, we can't match them, we have to build slowly 

[Chappers]

I’m not optimistic for this season, Reid and Flint will be massive losses, and the replacements look pretty ordinary/ inexperienced. Seems a few gaps in the squad, especially up front. All part of the rebuilding process though, hopefully we will soon see the younger players in our squad rather than loaned out across the leagues, and the long term plan will come together.

We all love it when a plan comes together!

[pillred]

13 hours ago, Drew Peacock said:

I am dismayed by the number of injuries before the season even starts.

same as last season, half the team seemed to be out at one time or another, don't know if we are unlucky or something else but we seem to have a lot more than our share of bad luck.

[Monkeh]

18 minutes ago, Chappers said:

I’m not optimistic for this season, Reid and Flint will be massive losses, and the replacements look pretty ordinary/ inexperienced. Seems a few gaps in the squad, especially up front. All part of the rebuilding process though, hopefully we will soon see the younger players in our squad rather than loaned out across the leagues, and the long term plan will come together.

We all love it when a plan comes together!

both replacements are season championship players

[Chappers]

6 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

both replacements are season championship players

Time will tell, doesn’t look a strong squad to me, on the plus side hard-working, but on the down side lacking that little bit of quality.

Be a pessimist, that way you avoid disappointment.

[Phileas Fogg]

14 minutes ago, Chappers said:

Time will tell, doesn’t look a strong squad to me, on the plus side hard-working, but on the down side lacking that little bit of quality.

Be a pessimist, that way you avoid disappointment.

I think the squad is stronger overall, on paper anyway. 

Obviously Flint and Reid are hard acts to follow, so will be interesting to see whether the chosen 11 is stronger.

[Ealing Robin]

This go for broke mentality only exists with those who can see the upside. i've spent a lot of time around fans in the lower leagues who have seen financial mismanagement ruin there once loved football clubs when "going for it" (if anyone wants a quick gander at Worcester Citys recent plight) 

It's also forgotten that these big money buys want big money wages, which in turn the rest of the squad will want. Simply put if our average wage per player went to £15,000 a week with 22  players, you are instantly commissioning a 5million loss based upon last years turnover, this is without any other costs being accounted for. All very easy to commit too when it's SL's money.

For the record i'm reasonably happy with this summers business, we could do with a upgrade in the goalkeeping department, but all things considered it have been a very good window on paper.

[Monkeh]

1 hour ago, Chappers said:

Time will tell, doesn’t look a strong squad to me, on the plus side hard-working, but on the down side lacking that little bit of quality.

Be a pessimist, that way you avoid disappointment.

we were hardly full of quality before hand, 

[kiwicolin]

5 hours ago, Bri Stool City said:

we had an opportunity last xmas, one that will be a long time coming again, SL didn't want to take it, preferring the gently, gently way. Cardiff and Fulham thought otherwise.

Bournemouth, Brighton, Burnley, Cardiff, Palace, Hudders, Fulham; prem teams now, what are they doing right that we aren't.

They are not planning/building for the future they are there.

We will have to wait and see on those teams to mentioned, as see how well they fair. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

21 minutes ago, kiwicolin said:

We will have to wait and see on those teams to mentioned, as see how well they fair. 

What .....in the premier League you mean

And if you’re suggesting that Burnley for example arnt building for the future ?

Well .....

uhmmm

hmmmmmm 

 

 

 

[Leveller]

13 hours ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

Rod Liddell wrote today that you can get out of the Championship with a tight defence and a 20 goal a season target man. I think Cardiff showed that you don’t need to play like Wolves to get promoted.

Does anyone think we have one of the best defences or a prolific Championship ready striker ?

 I know we would never have thought Bobby could have done it last season, but someone stepping up from nowhere is so rare it’s unlikely to happen again especially here. We haven’t changed the midfield, we have replaced Bobby with someone who is hardly prolific and our best striker can’t play until Sept.

i’m even nervous about our chances of mid table obscurity right now. There’s a lot of big clubs in the division we won’t get another basket case like Sunderland this year so the relegated clubs have massive budgets.

Maybe Swansea?

[Natchfever]

On 28/07/2018 at 17:55, steviestevieneville said:

You’ve supported us for over 30 years but perhaps don’t listen to anything being said. 

We have to be sustainable , we can’t chase the dream. We tried that after the play off final defeat and ended up with a £50m debt. 

Its the way we have to do it. 

Genuine question- did we really have £50m of debt due to paying over the odds wages ?

I know of course that successive managers brought in a never ending conveyor belt of shit players.

Other clubs have shown that if you have the right people spending the money then it can be done.

SL's money so he can do what he likes of course but our current "model" isn't in my opinion likely to bring Premier league football, and the current growth of the club will probably stall and then fall away after a few more seasons of (hopefully) mid table fare.

[Monkeh]

5 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

Genuine question- did we really have £50m of debt due to paying over the odds wages ?

I know of course that successive managers brought in a never ending conveyor belt of shit players.

Other clubs have shown that if you have the right people spending the money then it can be done.

SL's money so he can do what he likes of course but our current "model" isn't in my opinion likely to bring Premier league football, and the current growth of the club will probably stall and then fall away after a few more seasons of (hopefully) mid table fare.

and the rest, we were losing 10 million + a season and the wage bill was 18.9 million back then, I think it was restructured around the same time SL stood down as chairman, he wrote off the debt (I recall it being 40 million) and has covered it ever since,

I think it stands at 25 million and as soon as it gets over that he turns it in to shares and buys them (servicing the debt) to keep it at said level,

 

[core321]

8 hours ago, Bri Stool City said:

We could have should have matched the likes of Fulham and Cardiff in the spend/transfer stakes; its VERY frustrating to see them where they are and then us a "happy" mid table club. Our last window was a joke and just about sums up our intentions.

Our present window efforts has no doubt brought us...more money in the bank...peanuts compared to what we could get if we ever decide to take a chance and go for it one day.

I.M.O. this windows transfer money shouldn't have been spread so thin, less players better quality...nothing against the 2 lower div strikers brought in but would it not been better to go for 1 better one? did/do we really need them both considering what we have already.

We are going to "run around a lot" high pressing the "in" term, time will tell if that will keep us where we want to be.

Steady...you will get your IP address checked. 

[core321]

8 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

This must be Thatch or Tinman on a different account.. all the hallmarks are there.. deep rooted and poorly disguised hatred of Johnson, demand for unrealistic players, refusal to acknowledge sensible counter argument and generally poor reasoning skills.. have any mods done an IP address check?

Just because you disagree with me, your putting in complaints to Mods. Its a forum, you don't agree with me..that's the point of a forum it creates discussion. You just can't stand it can you...someone having a very different view of how the club is right now. There's thousands out there mate. Got to admit though most people just come here for virtual friends and go with the flow to be popular. You like you spend all day on here claiming your point of view is the only one acceptable. 

...and just to add referencing your quote..do people need specific qualifications and abilities to post on this forum? Or because people disagree with you or have a different point of view its acceptable to be discriminating to people that are obviously 'sub standard' in intellect to you?

[TonyTonyTony]

I would point out - this time last season people wouldn’t have complained if Reid was sold for a million. Then look at the season he had. It wasn’t that long ago Flint  was very dodgy indeed too.

it is too early to judge. EVERY season brings surprises and unexpected stars.

If we get a decent goalie in then I’m optimistic as we have good young talent like Josh and Korey with experience of the league now. Webster looks solid to me and Weimann will add a bit of guile. Add to that a Pato on form with COD injury free and I’m excited for the season ahead

[One Team In Keynsham]

I recall a preseason thrashing of Exeter, with Bridges and Stewart scoring, and being full of optimism for the season. That ultimately all went to shit. Since then, I have avoided getting my hopes up, rather I just assume we will be crap and struggle. As to our summer transfer business, I have not been following it, have we got anyone good?