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City fans ejected from the South Stand at half time Vs Sheffield Utd

Carey 6

By Carey 6
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Libertine Dream

Libertine Dream

Posted
Posted

Absolutely disgusted with the club & police regarding the false accusations of racism. The man in question is probably the most genuine & friendliest blokes I know, he is the least racist person & I know will find this all quite upsetting. I also know this could have huge impact on his private life & career. All thanks to some little jobsworth with a chip on his shoulder. Hopefully this is over turned fairly quickly 

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richwwtk

richwwtk

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Libertine Dream said:

Absolutely disgusted with the club & police regarding the false accusations of racism. The man in question is probably the most genuine & friendliest blokes I know, he is the least racist person & I know will find this all quite upsetting. I also know this could have huge impact on his private life & career. All thanks to some little jobsworth with a chip on his shoulder. Hopefully this is over turned fairly quickly 

If the accusation is false, the only person you should be disgusted with is the person who made the accusation.

The club and police are duty bound to take it seriously and investigate.

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RedLionLad

RedLionLad

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3 hours ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

I may well be wrong, but I suspect the 'word' was 'racism', rather than the 'N' word to which I believe you are inferring. 

Thank you.

If the steward involved has made a false allegation, let's hope the club and Police are sensible enough not to believe anything without fully investigating the 'incident'. 

It's a shame this didn't take place in some other part of the stadium where people are seated. The club would know exactly who was sat within earshot of the alleged comments.

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Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

If there was anything racial said and directed at a steward, without doubt it would have been heard by numerous people. Granted it won't help that it is unreserved in that area but I guess the same people are in the same block every game. Surely easily identified by CCTV and even some may be noticed by the people who have been booted out.

The Head steward/Police should have dealt with it at the time of the complaint and asked people who were stood in the area what they heard and got to the bottom of it there and then (not wait for people to walk down at HT, and then kick them out). Now, from what I can see, everything is in this stewards favour as any potential witnesses have 'disappeared'. Shocking all around for the people involved, and it shows just how bad/clueless the stewarding is overall.

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BobBobSuperBob

BobBobSuperBob

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6 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Odd then isn't it, if the stewards are so poor that they were credited with being decent on the Sheff United forum. Bit pedantic was the worst thing that was said.

Personally I think the quality is very variable- no excuse for false allegations mind.

Isn’t it the (virtually always) stewarding around the singing section though ?

Am I going crackers or do there appear to be a different set of stewards around the Singing Section dressed more like security guards ?

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

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10 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Isn’t it the (virtually always) stewarding around the singing section though ?

Am I going crackers or do there appear to be a different set of stewards around the Singing Section dressed more like security guards ?

I think the Singing Section stewarding from what I've read on here seems needlessly heavy handed.When I say variable, I mean different bits of the ground have different tolerance, common sense etc.

Looks that way- SIA types or maybe Response Stewards put in as standard stewards? Terrible idea in either case IMO- it is inflammatory and sends the wrong message!

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phantom

phantom

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Posted
1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Odd then isn't it, if the stewards are so poor that they were credited with being decent on the Sheff United forum. Bit pedantic was the worst thing that was said.

Easy answer to that - they Utd fans were not in the same area of the ground

Some stewards struggle to show people to the right seats - others can deal well with people - others have zero personal skills and should not be in a customer facing role

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

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21 minutes ago, phantom said:

Easy answer to that - they Utd fans were not in the same area of the ground

Some stewards struggle to show people to the right seats - others can deal well with people - others have zero personal skills and should not be in a customer facing role

Fair.

The thing is, stewarding is caught between two stools. In the last 30 years, and particularly the last 10 as police have withdrawn from grounds, stewards have taken more responsibility- FSF Faircop Twitter covers this better than me that's where I get the info from mainly. :laughcont: With this shift from police to stewards, it is sort of a weird hybrid between 'policing' the inside of the ground and a customer service role- but not fully in either category, for example telling people they can't do certain things isn't customer service, and no power of arrest isn't policing. No man's land a good term?

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Harry

Harry

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2 hours ago, wood_red said:

If there was anything racial said and directed at a steward, without doubt it would have been heard by numerous people. Granted it won't help that it is unreserved in that area but I guess the same people are in the same block every game. Surely easily identified by CCTV and even some may be noticed by the people who have been booted out.

The Head steward/Police should have dealt with it at the time of the complaint and asked people who were stood in the area what they heard and got to the bottom of it there and then (not wait for people to walk down at HT, and then kick them out). Now, from what I can see, everything is in this stewards favour as any potential witnesses have 'disappeared'. Shocking all around for the people involved, and it shows just how bad/clueless the stewarding is overall.

I want to follow up on this post. 

You are correct. If anything had been said there were many people around who would have heard it. We stand in the same place every week and there are at least 10-15 kids under the age of 10 within a few yards of us. If anything like has been alleged had been said then I guarantee there would have been parents in the vicinity immediately complaining and calling this out. 

Nothing of a racial nature was said and it’s a total fabrication. How this can be proven though is another matter. 

To be clear. 3 persons were ejected. Only 1 was arrested for racial abuse. From what I understand no charges have been brought on that individual. But it’s the fact something like this is on his record now, even though there has been no charge, that is galling. 

Just to also clarify. The alleged language did NOT involve the ‘N’ word, as has been mentioned earlier on the thread. 

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The Bard

The Bard

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On 18/09/2018 at 11:06, Harry said:

I want to follow up on this post. 

You are correct. If anything had been said there were many people around who would have heard it. We stand in the same place every week and there are at least 10-15 kids under the age of 10 within a few yards of us. If anything like has been alleged had been said then I guarantee there would have been parents in the vicinity immediately complaining and calling this out. 

Nothing of a racial nature was said and it’s a total fabrication. How this can be proven though is another matter. 

To be clear. 3 persons were ejected. Only 1 was arrested for racial abuse. From what I understand no charges have been brought on that individual. But it’s the fact something like this is on his record now, even though there has been no charge, that is galling. 

Just to also clarify. The alleged language did NOT involve the ‘N’ word, as has been mentioned earlier on the thread. 

I was stood no more than 2 metres from Harry and can say his account is completely accurate.  I heard the conversation with the steward and at no point did anyone use any language that was even mildly rude let alone a hate crime.  I deal with hate crime in my job and we're talking about nasty serious incidents where people are living in fear, scared to walk to the shops or wait for a bus. 

I can't help but compare the attitude of the police to the 'incident' last week to their inaction with regard to real issues of hate crime and it doesn't show them in a good light.  

The additional police presence in the area was noticeable before the game and, having spent 35 years watching City, you can only conclude there is at least some element of premeditation about the events. Why on earth have riot police there?  100 yards from away fans in an area mostly populated by kids and middle aged blokes. 

I can only conclude that someone, somewhere had an agenda..  

 

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WhistleHappy

WhistleHappy

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On ‎17‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 11:11, RedLionLad said:

 Anyone else getting totally pissed off with this racism malarkey?

 

How nice it must be that just one word can be used to pervert the course of justice. It has almost become a weapon.

 

On ‎17‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 11:17, BigAlToby&Liam said:

 What’s the word?

Not really. Can’t see any justification for it in any set of circumstances.

What am I missing?

Totally out of context from a football point of view but a recent reality TV situation says it all for me regarding how OTT some indiscretions (without personal hurt or malice caused or intended) gets blown out of proportion as if the crime of the century has been committed when an issue deemed as 'racist ' occurs. Sometimes deservedly , often debatably though and the 'racist' label is banded around in an almost 'witch hunter general' kind of way.

No right minded person would think racism (or many many other crimes) is acceptable but I do think a sense of proportion should exist. It's like everyone is just waiting to be offended on other peoples behalf, so ready to jump up and down as if the most heinous thing imaginable has occurred. In fact so often its no more than words (as distasteful as they may be), not sticks & stones that break bones,... words when used directly, with venom and personally towards an individual or group of people absolutely deserve to be slapped down forcefully and appropriately. Often though when more innocuous lesser situations occur, things get jumped on with vigour and on those occasions the 'offendees' do the cause of anti racism no favours at all.

So to the tv example I mentioned....   Channel 5s 'Celebrity' Big Brother & the currently running ordinary Big Brother show (yes, I know its bollocks, that's not the point)  

The Celebrity version featured the once notorious Nick Leeson (remember him?) seemed a nice enough bloke tbh but he was responsible twenty years ago for the collapse of Barings Bank, the oldest merchant bank in London est in 1762. The rogue trading deals of Mr Leeson bought the whole thing crashing down due to hidden losses of upto a Billion Pounds. Causing I presume much damage to many people... Leeson served two & a half years for his misdemeanour's and now twenty years on from the devastation this one man destroyer appears on our TV screens, afforded 'celebrity' status.

Compare that to …  The young Scottish girl, works, (or worked in McDonalds) who entered the Big Brother house a couple of weeks ago... Within a day she was shamed and dumped off of the show amid a 'vile racist tweet storm' her reputation in tatters, forever branded a racist and it's believed to have lost her job a Mc D's ….. 

Her 'crime' for which she is paying such a high price, branded racist, vilified publicly, possibly jobless? was 'committed' way back when as a FIFTEEN YEAR OLD KID she tweeted an outraged rant about the 9/11 Twin Towers terrorist atrocity …

Her choice of words were clearly ill-advised, offensive, juvenile and inaccurate,  the recently dug up 'tweet' of a young teenager was undoubtedly offensive in the language used but it was made in anger at the time by a school kid. She would have fully deserved criticism  for that tweet when she made it, but really is it justifiable to do so now, so many years later, when no doubt she is a different person as an adult than she was when a foolish school kid ?  

Bearing in mind that her tweeted words would have had an initial limited readership plus the fact it was written by a youngster and yes, some people, had they come across it would have been upset, but ultimately no one could really have been damaged by it much beyond that though and she WAS FIFTEEN ffs...

She has lost her dream tv chance, her reputation NOW as a young woman, for foolishness as a silly teenager.

On the other hand the nice Mr Nick Leeson who's crime was committed as an adult, hurt so many people and appears to be a 'different person' now... He who caused so much damage is now regarded apparently as a all's forgiven and forgotten TV Celebrity!

Perhaps it's time to put some categories of deemed 'racism' into perspective, deal harshly with serious incidents of course, but shouldn't we stop these automatic Oh My God kneejerk headline grabbing reactions to what common sense should tell us isn't the most serious examples of shameful a crime.  

I agree with @RedLionLad that these never ending 'race-card' wavings are wearing very very thin indeed now.. ultimately these frequent ott card wavers are harming racial harmony, and doing nobody any good except perhaps massaging their own self righteous, self important ego's ……… and nobody in authority dares to call them out on it because the inevitable shouts of 'racist' would most likely cost them their jobs.

Big Rant … sorry, but someone had to do it, and point out the ridiculousness of elements of our super sensitive PC world we seem to be living in right now. We all know it already of course.          

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Harry

Harry

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I’ve spoken to Julie at length and also had a response to my letter of complaint from Dave Storr (Head of Security). 

In fairness to both, they have acted quickly to establish the facts, reviewed CCTV and let me know the situation. 

Basically, there will be no further update on here. The situation as it stands is that 3 people were ejected, with no further action to be taken. 1 person was arrested on suspicion of racism, and there is an ongoing investigation into that allegation, for which Dave & Julie have both reviewed all evidence and statements. 

At this stage there can be no further comments on here as the investigation is ongoing. I hope everyone can understand that. 

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BobBobSuperBob

BobBobSuperBob

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13 hours ago, The Bard said:

I was stood no more than 2 metres from Harry and can say his account is completely accurate.  I heard the conversation with the steward and at no point did anyone use any language that was even mildly rude let alone a hate crime.  I deal with hate crime in my job and we're talking about nasty serious incidents where people are living in fear, scared to walk to the shops or wait for a bus. 

I can't help but compare the attitude of the police to the 'incident' last week to their inaction with regard to real issues of hate crime and it doesn't show them in a good light.  

The additional police presence in the area was noticeable before the game and, having spent 35 years watching City, you can only conclude there is at least some element of premeditation about the events. Why on earth have riot police there?  100 yards from away fans in an area mostly populated by kids and middle aged blokes. 

I can only conclude that someone, somewhere had an agenda..  

 

Hope they’ve asked you for a statement Bard

Good man

 

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Harry

Harry

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17 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Hope they’ve asked you for a statement Bard

Good man

 

Hi Bob. I guess the one other thing I can say on this is that at this time there is no current need for any further statements. 

I’ve been inundated with requests of people willing to provide a statement and this has been noted by Julie. 

Should any additional witness statements be required then there is certainly plenty of volunteers, but at this stage it’s not necessary. 

Thanks for raising this though. 

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BobBobSuperBob

BobBobSuperBob

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58 minutes ago, Harry said:

Hi Bob. I guess the one other thing I can say on this is that at this time there is no current need for any further statements. 

I’ve been inundated with requests of people willing to provide a statement and this has been noted by Julie. 

Should any additional witness statements be required then there is certainly plenty of volunteers, but at this stage it’s not necessary. 

Thanks for raising this though. 

I appreciate you can’t comment further as there is an ongoing investigation Harry , and I appreciate it wasn’t you arrested ,

but if the  truth as it appears  , emerges as it would appear to be doing , when the investigation is complete , I personally would be asking the police if they are considering prosecution of the alleger for perverting the course of justice by making a false allegation (If it transpires he was lying) and if not why not 

Nowt to do with me as such mate,  but anyone who does make a (Serious) false allegation deserves everything coming their way

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JulieH

JulieH

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2 hours ago, Harry said:

I’ve spoken to Julie at length and also had a response to my letter of complaint from Dave Storr (Head of Security). 

In fairness to both, they have acted quickly to establish the facts, reviewed CCTV and let me know the situation. 

Basically, there will be no further update on here. The situation as it stands is that 3 people were ejected, with no further action to be taken. 1 person was arrested on suspicion of racism, and there is an ongoing investigation into that allegation, for which Dave & Julie have both reviewed all evidence and statements. 

At this stage there can be no further comments on here as the investigation is ongoing. I hope everyone can understand that. 

Thank you! 

Saves me writing !! 

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JulieH

JulieH

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Posted
On 18/09/2018 at 08:56, wood_red said:

If there was anything racial said and directed at a steward, without doubt it would have been heard by numerous people. Granted it won't help that it is unreserved in that area but I guess the same people are in the same block every game. Surely easily identified by CCTV and even some may be noticed by the people who have been booted out.

The Head steward/Police should have dealt with it at the time of the complaint and asked people who were stood in the area what they heard and got to the bottom of it there and then (not wait for people to walk down at HT, and then kick them out). Now, from what I can see, everything is in this stewards favour as any potential witnesses have 'disappeared'. Shocking all around for the people involved, and it shows just how bad/clueless the stewarding is overall.

I can comment here on the timing of steward/ police involvement 

the notification of the comment from stewards came through to the control room shortly before the round of applause that was due to happen for the city fan Paul creehan who had recently died.

it was decided that any action would be delayed until after this as the head of security and the  policing operation were aware of how well thought of he was within the city family., and it was not though appropriate to go into the stand at that important time 

hence the decision to delay until half time

no evidence has been lost and as you can see lots of fans have offerred witness statements. 

 

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Guest

Guest

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2 hours ago, JulieH said:

I can comment here on the timing of steward/ police involvement 

the notification of the comment from stewards came through to the control room shortly before the round of applause that was due to happen for the city fan Paul creehan who had recently died.

it was decided that any action would be delayed until after this as the head of security and the  policing operation were aware of how well thought of he was within the city family., and it was not though appropriate to go into the stand at that important time 

hence the decision to delay until half time

no evidence has been lost and as you can see lots of fans have offerred witness statements. 

 

Ok, fair enough. I just assumed it was at the start of the match, as why would a steward be telling someone to sit down 5/10 minutes before HT if they were standing in the aisle. I assumed Harry was standing in (or close to the aisle before or just after kick off) and got asked to move. Very odd to let him stand there for a large proportion of the first half before telling him to move in my opinion.

1 hour ago, AshtonPark said:

 If there is clearly evidence of no wrong doing, could that steward be charged with wasting police time etc?

I hope he gets charged with more than that and gets something on his record as well. Surely he should be getting charged with "racism" as that is exactly what it is.

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BobBobSuperBob

BobBobSuperBob

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1 hour ago, AshtonPark said:

@JulieH If there is clearly evidence of no wrong doing, could that steward be charged with wasting police time etc?

If the alleger has made a false statement - At it’s serious end - a Prima Facie case of Perjury (7 yrs) or even Perverting Course Of Justice ( Max 10 yrs)

 

Charging Practice for Public Justice Offences

The following factors will be relevant to all public justice offences when assessing the relative seriousness of the conduct and which offence, when there is an option, should be charged. Consider whether the conduct:

  • was spontaneous and unplanned or deliberate and elaborately planned;
  • was momentary and irresolute or prolonged and determined;
  • was motivated by misplaced loyalty to a relative/friend or was part of a concerted effort to avoid, pervert, or defeat justice;
  • whether the activities of the defendant drew in others;
  • was intended to result in trivial or 'serious harm' to the administration of justice;
  • actually resulted in trivial or 'serious harm' to the administration of justice.

Examples of 'serious harm' include conduct which:

  • enables a potential defendant in a serious case to evade arrest or commit further offences;
  • causes an accused to be granted bail when he might otherwise not have;
  • avoids a police investigation for disqualified driving or other serious offences;
  • misleads a court;
  • puts another person in real jeopardy of arrest/prosecution or results in the arrest/prosecution of another person;
  • avoids a mandatory penalty such as disqualification;
  • results in the police losing the opportunity to obtain important evidence in a case.

 

 

* I’ll have a bet it doesn’t happen though

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