SStandUp Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 2 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Few Clubs in this division who’ve never spent 2 million on any player or even £1.7 million let alone on a L2 standard full back And where are they in the league? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SStandUp Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 45 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: We apparently lost 18m last year- we had to sell, we had to restructure. I'm not expecting great things this year, however at the same time LJ needs to set us up better- no two ways about that. Exactly. We lose £18m every year mate. LJ set us up well today. Preferred us in that formation, suits our players better. You're a good poster in here, so respect your onion. I honestly think we'll be fine. We've got to be patient. We're gradually building the club into a better position, short term in might effect on field stuff, but long term we'll benefit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 Whilst on the subject of losing players and ‘on the cheap’ Theres a Club who have sold their best players each and every year and not reinvested the money Last year just under £3 million less spent on transfers than gained from sales £9 million profit the year before that.... £ 9 million the year before that .... On that basis Relegation almost certain surely Brentford ............where are they ? Back in League 1 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChippenhamRed Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 2 hours ago, Sturny said: I doubt it. If you don't think LJ gets special treatment then On one occasion - when we were seriously threatened with relegation in 16/17, he was given the benefit of the doubt when many clubs would have fired him. You could call that “special treatment”, but equally you could call it a brave decision to choose continuity over more upheaval; and, inconveniently for your argument, that decision was justified and rewarded with a strong finish to that season and an improved league position the following year. At no other time has LJ particularly required “special treatment”, because he has gradually improved the club’s league position year on year - another inconvenient fact for some. I’m not even particularly a fan of LJ and his inability to get consistent performances from the team is a huge issue. But the whole “special treatment” thing is a myth based on one knife edge decision that, actually, proved to be the right one. After last season’s capitulation I don’t think he would survive a lowly finish this season. It’s funny how people bemoan the hire and fire culture of football management until it’s their own club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lack of Action Man Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 I think possibly yes, though now I guess we have to ask what our aspirations as a club are. If it is to remain a mid-table championship team, promote through our academy and recruit from the lower leagues to sell on at inflated values, then we should stick with LJ. If we have aspirations of becoming more than that, then I think this could be the final season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturny Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 19 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said: On one occasion - when we were seriously threatened with relegation in 16/17, he was given the benefit of the doubt when many clubs would have fired him. You could call that “special treatment”, but equally you could call it a brave decision to choose continuity over more upheaval; and, inconveniently for your argument, that decision was justified and rewarded with a strong finish to that season and an improved league position the following year. At no other time has LJ particularly required “special treatment”, because he has gradually improved the club’s league position year on year - another inconvenient fact for some. I’m not even particularly a fan of LJ and his inability to get consistent performances from the team is a huge issue. But the whole “special treatment” thing is a myth based on one knife edge decision that, actually, proved to be the right one. After last season’s capitulation I don’t think he would survive a lowly finish this season. It’s funny how people bemoan the hire and fire culture of football management until it’s their own club. SL likes the idea of LJ therefore gives him special treatment (more funds, extra time). It's not the hard to see.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChippenhamRed Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, Sturny said: SL likes the idea of LJ therefore gives him special treatment (more funds, extra time). It's not the hard to see.. Like I said, the “special treatment” you claim refers to one occasion where his future was considered. As for more funds - his predecessor was making enormous bids for the likes of Gayle and Gray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturny Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said: Like I said, the “special treatment” you claim refers to one occasion where his future was considered. As for more funds - his predecessor was making enormous bids for the likes of Gayle and Gray. Even so, one occasion is enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChippenhamRed Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, Sturny said: Even so, one occasion is enough I don’t think we’re a million miles from agreeing actually. He did get the benefit of the doubt when others might not have, but given that the decision proved to be the right one I don’t necessarily see that as a bad thing - a case of faith being rewarded. Whether he remains the right person to take us to the next level is a very different question, and I certainly have my doubts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Red Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 We are what we are. A mid to lower table Championship club and IMO that is EXACTLY how the board of directors and the Lansdown family want it to be for now. Lee is there perfect fit, does as he is told and will toe the line. Not enough people at the top of this football club want it enough, it has been a problem for a long time.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 7 hours ago, ForeverRes said: Would anyone argue with the fact we were the better team today. And we missed chances because we lack quality in the final 3rd, and we lost to a team who had 2 chances and took them? I think that's a pretty fair summation. The performance wasn't the issue, the lack of quality was. That isn't Johnsons fault. As I've said in previous threads, you sell your better players, don't replace them, what do you expect? Honestly, what do people actually expect? On paper we look mid table, and that's what we are. Why is the ‘lack of quality’ not the head coach’s fault? And I didn’t think we were the better team today.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 7 hours ago, chinapig said: Indeed LJ himself said earlier in the season that he didn't want it all to be about the future..... So why is he signing players saying they are “ones for the future” - ?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 7 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said: So why is he signing players saying they are “ones for the future” - ?! Because that is the club's strategy and the head coach is expected to comply with it. Sign players, (or promote them from the academy) develop them then sell on for a profit to improve the finances, while staying in the Championship, seems to me to be the strategy in a nutshell. As evidenced by comments from SL and MA, promotion is not the main aim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 19 hours ago, Redmycolour said: He was cheap option for Landsdown This is another myth that needs putting to bed . He was employed by Barnsley who were doing rather well with LJ at the helm . Do you really believe that when billionaire owner Steve Lansdown knocked at their door asking about the possibility of taking their head coach they said 'sure take him with our blessings and don't be silly Mr Moneybags you keep your cash in the bank , We don't need it ' ? If LJ had not shown promise as a coach SL would never have employed him. The debate is whether SL is too close to his head coach to take the right decisions when they're needed not whether he took the ' cheap option '. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiderEyed Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 8 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: This is another myth that needs putting to bed . He was employed by Barnsley who were doing rather well with LJ at the helm . Do you really believe that when billionaire owner Steve Lansdown knocked at their door asking about the possibility of taking their head coach they said 'sure take him with our blessings and don't be silly Mr Moneybags you keep your cash in the bank , We don't need it ' ? If LJ had not shown promise as a coach SL would never have employed him. The debate is whether SL is too close to his head coach to take the right decisions when they're needed not whether he took the ' cheap option '. ******* bang on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 21 hours ago, chinapig said: You assume the club wants us to be promotion contenders. The signs are that the medium term aim is to improve the finances by developing and selling players while maintaining Championship status. That requires a head coach who is prepared to live with that and the limits it places on him. Indeed LJ himself said earlier in the season that he didn't want it all to be about the future, suggesting that is exactly the aim and that he gets frustrated by it too. He may well get frustrated, but that isn't the question in this thread is it. Has he reached his pinnacle ? As someone said earlier, he reached that the second he put pen to paper and signed for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EstoniaTallinnRed Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 22 hours ago, daored said: Disagree, there are other clubs in this league who ‘sell’ their better players and continue to improve. Brentford is a prime example. I agree we have created chances but we haven’t taken them. The club wants to become self sufficient and that isn’t a bad thing Seems to me, the problem is self sufficiency is more important to SL than the results or performances on the pitch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murraysrightplum Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 Nay dear (Nadir) ...I’ll get me coat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red7 Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 On 07/10/2018 at 17:12, glen humphries said: Care to explain the eggplant It's just another word for 'aubergine'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glen humphries Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, Red7 said: It's just another word for 'aubergine'. Ok thanks mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturny Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 On 07/10/2018 at 21:54, ChippenhamRed said: I don’t think we’re a million miles from agreeing actually. He did get the benefit of the doubt when others might not have, but given that the decision proved to be the right one I don’t necessarily see that as a bad thing - a case of faith being rewarded. Whether he remains the right person to take us to the next level is a very different question, and I certainly have my doubts. Which is why people believe it's special treatment. You kinda walked into agreeing with me there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturny Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 22 hours ago, Major Isewater said: This is another myth that needs putting to bed . He was employed by Barnsley who were doing rather well with LJ at the helm . Do you really believe that when billionaire owner Steve Lansdown knocked at their door asking about the possibility of taking their head coach they said 'sure take him with our blessings and don't be silly Mr Moneybags you keep your cash in the bank , We don't need it ' ? If LJ had not shown promise as a coach SL would never have employed him. The debate is whether SL is too close to his head coach to take the right decisions when they're needed not whether he took the ' cheap option '. Can agree with this. Didn't we literally have to pay for him to leave the club he was at? Making the statement 'cheap' factually incorrect? Unless i'm totally missing the point and people are using the word 'cheap' as poor managerial ability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 All together now , " he's got a pinnacle on his head , he's got a pinnacle on his head ... " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Fred Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 On 07/10/2018 at 18:46, robin_unreliant said: No Lee hasn't reached his pinnacle - he's clambered up and fallen off the other side. Can't see us reaching the heights of last year again under him personally. This......... Sadly I can't see Lee ever taking us to a higher finish than last season......and its only a matter of time under his tutelidge before we are sucked into a dogfight at the bottem,weather it be this season,next or whenever.. He has been backed,has had faith shown in him but we have too many honest but bang average players & a lack of class/balance in the squad still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChippenhamRed Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 45 minutes ago, Sturny said: Which is why people believe it's special treatment. You kinda walked into agreeing with me there You can call it special treatment or the benefit of the doubt - either way it doesn’t change my point that the action (I.e not firing him) was justified by what followed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 I would have thought he was more of a Titleist type of guy myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturny Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said: You can call it special treatment or the benefit of the doubt - either way it doesn’t change my point that the action (I.e not firing him) was justified by what followed. Yup I can agree it was a good decision by SL at the time to not pull the trigger, but it's irrelevant to the debate on why the triggered wasn't pulled. At that time I don't believe SL purely made his decision (to not fire LJ) based on JUST his managerial ability. At the time things on paper were not peachy at all for LJ. I think that's the part we disagree on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChippenhamRed Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 11 minutes ago, Sturny said: Yup I can agree it was a good decision by SL at the time to not pull the trigger, but it's irrelevant to the debate on why the triggered wasn't pulled. At that time I don't believe SL purely made his decision (to not fire LJ) based on JUST his managerial ability. At the time things on paper were not peachy at all for LJ. I think that's the part we disagree on? Fair enough. I can't really say exactly what made SL decide to keep him, whether it was solely a belief in his management abilities or something more personal - and you may be right to say it was the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hunt-Hertz Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 More of a hillock, than pinnacle,so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 On 07/10/2018 at 21:15, OddBallJim said: I think possibly yes, though now I guess we have to ask what our aspirations as a club are. If it is to remain a mid-table championship team, promote through our academy and recruit from the lower leagues to sell on at inflated values, then we should stick with LJ. If we have aspirations of becoming more than that, then I think this could be the final season. That doesn't appear to reconcile with Steve Lansdown's public statements regarding league position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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