Liam Walsh

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Walsh 900k-1000000 fee. 

2 and a half year deal- amortization 360k per year or 400k per year depending on the fee. That'd be in accounting terms anyway- waged I'm going to guess between 10-15k per week.

Mitrovic 600k loan fee. 30k per week- when you seem to have lost 18m in a season, unsure you can afford these.

Fair point on Grabban position wise, just unsure Mitrovic would have been affordable. From memory too, Mitrovic went to Fulham end of Jan- were we 3 points above them at most? Or 1?

Believe me, I was all for one of Mitrovic, Grabban or Adobe in Jan- had a proper belief in the playoffs and maybe more, but definitely the playoffs but @Davefevs has covered it well before- he thinks we lost 18m last season and over 3 years I think we were up against our limit.

Mitrovic for Diony and Walsh combined now that might have been a different scenario and kept us in FFP limits- might being an operative word.

I think the other bit to consider is that with Walsh, we had a saleable asset at the end of the season, unlike a Grabban.  This type of expensive loan strategy will hamstring Villa at the end of this season, it probably already has.

It is a fine balancing act.

I wonder what we’d have thought (at the time) if we’d gone for Grabban and not got 3 players in?  Hindsight is wonderful.  Goals weren’t really a problem either.  Eliasson couldn’t have done any worse than Kent, could he? 

[JoeAman08]

5 hours ago, City Ben said:

Genuine question as an expat, who's not got to see a lot of the games, what's behind this belief? Is it just that Pack's not been very good recently?

Wouldn’t be better right away. Way I worded it probably left that in doubt. That said I think Walsh could cover him even this year at times. 

I think Walsh is a better long passer, better tackler, looks forward more often and a bit quicker. Can see Barry Bannan in his game for sure. He needs minutes though and quite a few of them to reach that. I am a big believer anyway but know many do not feel the same. 

[Alessandro]

Whenever things are a little tough, there is always that look for an answer, and it’s usually a player either not in the squad (Freddie Hinds), on the bench (Eliasson), injured (Famara), being played in the wrong position (Brownhill).

Current answer is Korey out injured and Walsh on the bench.

I just personally have a feeling Walsh isn’t the answer yet, and given a run of games would fall back out of fashion. I’d like to be proved wrong because the answer to many of our problems is a creative player like Walsh who can unlock a defence.

[ScottishRed]

34 minutes ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

Seeing as we were ahead of Villa and Fulham in the table, yes they would have as long as we stumped up the cost.

Lets break it down:

If you say Mitrovic was on £30k a week and we paid the lot for 5 months that totals £600k. Loan fee of £600k and you’ve got a total outlay of £1.2m for a top striker and some much needed quality up top. We spent 1m on Walsh on the fee alone. I know where my money would have gone.

Even then it’s not restricted to the players you listed, there would have been others out there of similar quality willing to join a promotion push and we weren’t even interested in looking.

The other element to bring into the calculation is that we would not have been paying Dionys wages and loan fee - so I will therefore hazard a guess that we would have spent less than we did.

[nickolas]

On 07/10/2018 at 17:29, Shtanley said:

451 vs Brentford he could come in. 

We are getting battered there, regardless of players and formation!!

bogey team. Cant handle their movement. Not a chance!

will be so shocked if we get anything other than a footballing lesson imo. 

[Davefevs]

23 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

The other element to bring into the calculation is that we would not have been paying Dionys wages and loan fee - so I will therefore hazard a guess that we would have spent less than we did.

I cannot be sure what we paid, but getting a €8m asset 6 months into a 4 year deal at St Etienne for anything less than a £1m loan fee and a fair slug of his wages would be a master stroke of negotiation from MA.  Of course perhaps the deal agreed in advance to buy him had we got promoted might’ve been a good negotiation tool, but even so, would be massively loaded in our favour.  

‘We will never know though!

[JoeAman08]

I get the Diony v Mitrovic argument but where does Walsh come into this? We lack depth at CM and did even last season. Good prospect for a relatively cheap fee. 

As for Mitrovic he went to Fulham to play for an old manager who showed faith in him before. I don’t think he’d have considered the championship otherwise tbh. At the end of the day he was a 25m striker this summer and most likely always out of out range. 

[When the river runs]

11 minutes ago, nickolas said:

We are getting battered there, regardless of players and formation!!

bogey team. Cant handle their movement. Not a chance!

will be so shocked if we get anything other than a footballing lesson imo. 

The defeat at home to them last season was as one sided as I've ever seen a game. 

If they had put there chances away it could have been double figures. But they never haha

[ScottishRed]

3 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

I get the Diony v Mitrovic argument but where does Walsh come into this? We lack depth at CM and did even last season. Good prospect for a relatively cheap fee. 

As for Mitrovic he went to Fulham to play for an old manager who showed faith in him before. I don’t think he’d have considered the championship otherwise tbh. At the end of the day he was a 25m striker this summer and most likely always out of out range. 

The point Joe is that back in January we spent £1m on a player that even now, 10 months later, doesn't get a game, despite our HC saying he was "ready" back in Jan.

That £1m could have been spent on a loan player that might, just might, have got us to the PL.

Huge IF's there but still a point worth making.

[Olé]

Interesting on Sound of The City tonight, Marlon Pack (pre-recorded interview) said that Walsh was really playing well in training and is the most technically gifted player he's played with in the squad. So he's not MIA due to poor performances in training or any lack of ability.

[t_b]

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

I fear we will get a bit of a pasting at Brentford- please prove me wrong Lee and the team- but that Walsh in a midfield 3 centrally or between one of Taylor and Weimann and the midfield would give us a better chance, both of regaining the ball and more importantly keeping hold of it when we get it.

[JoeAman08]

36 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

The point Joe is that back in January we spent £1m on a player that even now, 10 months later, doesn't get a game, despite our HC saying he was "ready" back in Jan.

That £1m could have been spent on a loan player that might, just might, have got us to the PL.

Huge IF's there but still a point worth making.

True. I just never thought of Walsh as someone we were chasing for immediate help. I am disappointed he has not played more but at the time felt like he was a buy based on opportunity. Good prospect with a good upbringing that happened to be available. I wish LJ would not comment so much tbf

[Aaron-Bcfc]

1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said:

I get the Diony v Mitrovic argument but where does Walsh come into this? We lack depth at CM and did even last season. Good prospect for a relatively cheap fee. 

As for Mitrovic he went to Fulham to play for an old manager who showed faith in him before. I don’t think he’d have considered the championship otherwise tbh. At the end of the day he was a 25m striker this summer and most likely always out of out range. 

He’d spent the whole season prior in the Championship and never kicked up a fuss despite not being first choice at Newcastle so I think he might well have - good point made with Jokanovic though as that would’ve helped. Still, as I said previously it didn’t have to be one of Grabban/Mitrovic/Afobe.

The comparison with Walsh is purely to illustrate the mentality of the club. Happy to spend a million on an inexperienced midfielder but claim a proven striker (which would’ve cost the same over the 4/5 months as shown above) is “completely out of our price range”.

Of course you can chuck Diony into that band as well, a foreign gamble who hadn’t scored for 8 months rather than a paying that bit more on proven quality. To be honest I’d completely blanked him from my memory.

If you’re in a position to get promoted then the signings you make should be those to try and take you over the line, not gambles or players that might be half decent in the Championship a year or two down the line.

Haven’t heard it mentioned before about us being close to breaking FFP but if so that may go some way to explaining it. Even then you have to look back at the last couple of years and it’s easy to see how we put ourselves in that position, Ashton and co have wasted a hell of a lot of money on players who’ve not worked out or just been nowhere near good enough. (Magnússon, Engvall, Moore, Djuric, Tomlin, O’Neil to name a few). 

[nickolas]

1 hour ago, Dylan said:

The defeat at home to them last season was as one sided as I've ever seen a game. 

If they had put there chances away it could have been double figures. But they never haha

Yep for sure. 

Liam Walsh started that game im sure. 

Careful what we wish for!!!

[BobBobSuperBob]

30 minutes ago, nickolas said:

Yep for sure. 

Liam Walsh started that game im sure. 

Careful what we wish for!!!

He did

It was the game where Marlon and Baker were mysteriously left on bench

[Mr Popodopolous]

15 hours ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

He’d spent the whole season prior in the Championship and never kicked up a fuss despite not being first choice at Newcastle so I think he might well have - good point made with Jokanovic though as that would’ve helped. Still, as I said previously it didn’t have to be one of Grabban/Mitrovic/Afobe.

The comparison with Walsh is purely to illustrate the mentality of the club. Happy to spend a million on an inexperienced midfielder but claim a proven striker (which would’ve cost the same over the 4/5 months as shown above) is “completely out of our price range”.

Of course you can chuck Diony into that band as well, a foreign gamble who hadn’t scored for 8 months rather than a paying that bit more on proven quality. To be honest I’d completely blanked him from my memory.

If you’re in a position to get promoted then the signings you make should be those to try and take you over the line, not gambles or players that might be half decent in the Championship a year or two down the line.

Haven’t heard it mentioned before about us being close to breaking FFP but if so that may go some way to explaining it. Even then you have to look back at the last couple of years and it’s easy to see how we put ourselves in that position, Ashton and co have wasted a hell of a lot of money on players who’ve not worked out or just been nowhere near good enough. (Magnússon, Engvall, Moore, Djuric, Tomlin, O’Neil to name a few). 

FFP v cash in football finance aren't necessarily the same, hence why it seems we were near the limit- but that's another debate.

I know these are just examples, but Djuric- when fit was a decent option, another club in the bag IMO. Magnússon yes he had errors in him which wasn't ideal, but his versatility and solidness at times- think the great run in December, the United game he played ion all these and did alright all told.

Engvall and Moore I totally agree on. Probably O'Neil too- guess one thing you can say about Moore is time is on his side, players can blossom at different ages. He's played at England youth levels and Lens have a strong academy so there must be something there.

Tomlin for money spent, the biggest let-down I think- yet think Tomlin started well- and I don't just mean on loan, when we played well he seemed to- think back to first 3 months of 2016/17 when we were in and around the playoffs, albeit we had rode our luck a few times he had some good returns- assist v Leeds and free kick v Villa spring to mind but think his numbers and displays were good generally for that spell. In hindsight he was a disgrace overlal.

The Brentford game where Walsh played- odd selections that day, Baker and Pack on bench- not a great team or setup that day!

Fielding; Pisano Wright Baker Bryan; Brownhill Smith Walsh Kent; Reid Diedhiou.

Not comfortable or compatible that, especially vs a side like Brentford! I'd hope if we plays next time, it's in a much better shape for a start.