A view from the outside

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, hodge said:

Wasn't that from a magazine or online based source that published an article though?

Found it, 442 magazine did a 8 best managers under 40 thing - https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/8-worlds-best-young-managers-under-40

Yep, that’s right....and LJ was certainly more than happy to believe it / use it.

[maxjak]

I know the game of football has changed beyond recognition, so perhaps the comparison i make is irrelevant..........However A certain Brian Clough transformed Notts Forest many moons ago by devising a plan and structure of play, and then bringing in individual players for comparitively small fees to do certain and specific jobs in the formation and tactics he devised.  It proved to be massively successful. I remember at the time hardly recognising some of the players names, as they were a mixture of journeymen and discoveries by his scouts. As it was the system that was important, so as long as the player knew his job, being star names was not essential [Obviously things moved on eventually, with the purchase of the 1st million pound player, Trevor Francis!]  The point being, although football is much more of a squad game, and diet and fitness has greatly improved.......to be successful it's a good idea to formulate a style and pattern of play, and also have variations to combat different scenarios, then bring in players over a period of  transfer windows to fill the roles you require and gradually mold these players to play the system that they have been brought in to perform. Round pegs, round holes. I wonder if our little Lee has considered this approach?

[Lrrr]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, that’s right....and LJ was certainly more than happy to believe it / use it.

If it helps sell us to potential players by mentioning it in the media I have no issues with LJ mentioning it. Big difference in that list, LJ was the only one to have not managed in a top division, imagine a lot of managers would in that situation.

[ScottishRed]

9 minutes ago, hodge said:

Wasn't that from a magazine or online based source that published an article though?

Found it, 442 magazine did a 8 best managers under 40 thing - https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/8-worlds-best-young-managers-under-40

Ah yes, I remember have a good laugh at the time reading that article.

I guess from number 10 downwards they are all Sunday league managers!

[pongo88]

1 hour ago, paul_fox said:

Exactly how I see the problem with Johnson. 

He's more worried about trying to out smart the opposition manager so he can look clever then giving his team a clear idea about how they play 9/10 games. In that one odd game where he actually succeseds then people on here are quick to defend him and cream over how much much of a genius he is and how he learnt it all from the man City training pitch while he was there years ago. 

Just go out and play to our strengths. Might get the odd thumping but that's football, let the players enjoy themselves 

I agree with “go out and play to our strengths” as a philosophy, but how can you apply this to City? I’m not sure what are strengths are. The problems are easy to identify - constantly exposed down the flanks; the midfield is often overrun; over complicated passing without making much progress; lack of clinical goal scorers etc. There is another thread where Matt Parsons wants to know what City’s identity is. If you apply this to what happens on the pitch, then there is no identity other than a confused team playing without a clear plan. . 

[exAtyeoMax]

6 minutes ago, maxjak said:

I know the game of football has changed beyond recognition, so perhaps the comparison i make is irrelevant..........However A certain Brian Clough transformed Notts Forest many moons ago by devising a plan and structure of play, and then bringing in individual players for comparitively small fees to do certain and specific jobs in the formation and tactics he devised.  It proved to be massively successful. I remember at the time hardly recognising some of the players names, as they were a mixture of journeymen and discoveries by his scouts. As it was the system that was important, so as long as the player knew his job, being star names was not essential [Obviously things moved on eventually, with the purchase of the 1st million pound player, Trevor Francis!]  The point being, although football is much more of a squad game, and diet and fitness has greatly improved.......to be successful it's a good idea to formulate a style and pattern of play, and also have variations to combat different scenarios, then bring in players over a period of  transfer windows to fill the roles you require and gradually mold these players to play the system that they have been brought in to perform. Round pegs, round holes. I wonder if our little Lee has considered this approach?

sounds very similar to Cotts' approach

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

sounds very similar to Cotts' approach

Upon promotion to the Champ:

Fielding

Ayling / Flint / Baker or Moore

Fredericks / Pack / Smith / Freeman / Bryan

Kodjia / Wilbraham or Robinson

I reckon that team would beat our current line-up.  Have we progressed much?

 

[lenred]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Upon promotion to the Champ:

Fielding

Ayling / Flint / Baker or Moore

Fredericks / Pack / Smith / Freeman / Bryan

Kodjia / Wilbraham or Robinson

I reckon that team would beat our current line-up.  Have we progressed much?

 

That team would most certainly be odds on favourite if they were to match up.  Quite sad to see that actually.  Makes you realise what a really good team we had and as you say, forces home the lack of progress imho.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, lenred said:

That team would most certainly be odds on favourite if they were to match up.  Quite sad to see that actually.  Makes you realise what a really good team we had and as you say, forces home the lack of progress imho.

It shows Cotts eye for a player....even better if you add Gray / Gayle and Maguire too (rumours).

[Lrrr]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Upon promotion to the Champ:

Fielding

Ayling / Flint / Baker or Moore

Fredericks / Pack / Smith / Freeman / Bryan

Kodjia / Wilbraham or Robinson

I reckon that team would beat our current line-up.  Have we progressed much?

 

Don't think you can really count Fredericks he was gone as soon as he arrived, so stick Little in there. Bryan wasn't the player we saw last year. Ayling at CB was iffy at championship level. Freeman, well enough said about him. Wilbraham was reaching the stage of not being able to play 90 mins regularly and Robinson was very poor for us. 

Also add subs and currently comes out stronger, all well and good talking about a 1 off game but our current squad is far better equipped for a season than Cotts squad was.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, hodge said:

Don't think you can really count Fredericks he was gone as soon as he arrived, so stick Little in there. Bryan wasn't the player we saw last year. Ayling at CB was iffy at championship level. Freeman, well enough said about him. Wilbraham was reaching the stage of not being able to play 90 mins regularly and Robinson was very poor for us. 

Valid points, see my post above....that was what I was getting at.

[Lrrr]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Valid points, see my post above....that was what I was getting at.

He may have had an eye but getting them to play to a level then being another.  Also was Kodjia his choice or suggested by someone else, given his domestic player preference inclined to think he didn't come up with that one. 

[exAtyeoMax]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Upon promotion to the Champ:

Fielding

Ayling / Flint / Baker or Moore

Fredericks / Pack / Smith / Freeman / Bryan

Kodjia / Wilbraham or Robinson

I reckon that team would beat our current line-up.  Have we progressed much?

 

No, which makes it so frustrating.

I remember saying to DL at a presentation about the stadium down at Ashton Gate how relegation could help us re-group, cut out the dead wood and start again. We did that in L1 and recruited wisely but years after promotion it feels like we are back to where we were pre-relegation but I do think we have a decent squad instead of over-paid journeymen  

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, exAtyeoMax said:

No, which makes it so frustrating.

I remember saying to DL at a presentation about the stadium down at Ashton Gate how relegation could help us re-group, cut out the dead wood and start again. We did that in L1 and recruited wisely but years after promotion it feels like we are back to where we were pre-relegation but I do think we have a decent squad instead of over-paid journeymen  

Yes, agree.  There is a bit of dead-wood, but not like 12/13 season.  We have a reasonable squad.

If Preston get their customary win against us on Saturday (hope they don’t), I think there will be a meltdown.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, CityCiderEd said:

Constant changes and playing people out of form/position is hurting us.After the WBA game their fans said we were the best side they've seen at the Hawthorns this season.Since then on all the away teams forums we have been described as one of the poorest teams they've seen and in that time the team has been chopped and changed regularly.

Tbh, WBA aren't quite as good as their billing- some results have flattered them IMO- but I don't overall disagree.

The chopping and changing overall is a hindrance I feel, however credit where it's due he was bold in switching it round v Sheffield United then reverting back to the usual in the final section of the game- with our usual 4-4-2 from the off, unsure we keep a clean sheet and if we concede first that day I think we lose.

[Mr Popodopolous]

18 minutes ago, hodge said:

He may have had an eye but getting them to play to a level then being another.  Also was Kodjia his choice or suggested by someone else, given his domestic player preference inclined to think he didn't come up with that one. 

Mathieu Louis Jean played his part in finding Kodjia didn't he?

There's another thing- he has gone, he was a dedicated foreign scout with presumably a fairly up to date knowledge of foreign market...Mervyn Day is a good scout I'm sure but his knowledge is not in this area- let him do what he does best and get in a proper replacement for MLJ IMO.

[One BCFC]

49 minutes ago, maxjak said:

I know the game of football has changed beyond recognition, so perhaps the comparison i make is irrelevant..........However A certain Brian Clough transformed Notts Forest many moons ago by devising a plan and structure of play, and then bringing in individual players for comparitively small fees to do certain and specific jobs in the formation and tactics he devised.  It proved to be massively successful. I remember at the time hardly recognising some of the players names, as they were a mixture of journeymen and discoveries by his scouts. As it was the system that was important, so as long as the player knew his job, being star names was not essential [Obviously things moved on eventually, with the purchase of the 1st million pound player, Trevor Francis!]  The point being, although football is much more of a squad game, and diet and fitness has greatly improved.......to be successful it's a good idea to formulate a style and pattern of play, and also have variations to combat different scenarios, then bring in players over a period of  transfer windows to fill the roles you require and gradually mold these players to play the system that they have been brought in to perform. Round pegs, round holes. I wonder if our little Lee has considered this approach?

Sheffield United are exactly that today

[Mr Popodopolous]

53 minutes ago, maxjak said:

I know the game of football has changed beyond recognition, so perhaps the comparison i make is irrelevant..........However A certain Brian Clough transformed Notts Forest many moons ago by devising a plan and structure of play, and then bringing in individual players for comparitively small fees to do certain and specific jobs in the formation and tactics he devised.  It proved to be massively successful. I remember at the time hardly recognising some of the players names, as they were a mixture of journeymen and discoveries by his scouts. As it was the system that was important, so as long as the player knew his job, being star names was not essential [Obviously things moved on eventually, with the purchase of the 1st million pound player, Trevor Francis!]  The point being, although football is much more of a squad game, and diet and fitness has greatly improved.......to be successful it's a good idea to formulate a style and pattern of play, and also have variations to combat different scenarios, then bring in players over a period of  transfer windows to fill the roles you require and gradually mold these players to play the system that they have been brought in to perform. Round pegs, round holes. I wonder if our little Lee has considered this approach?

Funny thing is, I actually do think we have players who can play in a number of ways, plan for a set of different scenarios- different system, different emphasis for certain games.

Problem is I think LJ usually (too often)? tends to change the team, but doesn't usually make the right changes for the right games (IMO). Sheffield United at home perhaps a notable exception

Overall, it all a lot of the time feels a bit shoehorned, like it's a uncomfortable fit. Is he too determined to prove his system right at all costs? All managers have an ego, a large self belief and a thick skin- it's necessary.

[Fpcity]

1 hour ago, pongo88 said:

I agree with “go out and play to our strengths” as a philosophy, but how can you apply this to City? I’m not sure what are strengths are. The problems are easy to identify - constantly exposed down the flanks; the midfield is often overrun; over complicated passing without making much progress; lack of clinical goal scorers etc. There is another thread where Matt Parsons wants to know what City’s identity is. If you apply this to what happens on the pitch, then there is no identity other than a confused team playing without a clear plan. . 

Maybe a change in formation will help? 

4-3-3/4-5-1 or 5-3-2. we have decent wide players who work hard and can then pack the midfield. It's clear we will lack goals this season so make us hard to beat and well organised . On paper we have good defenders and whenever Smith comes back he'll be a bonus in midfiled. 

[Kingswood Robin]

2 hours ago, maxjak said:

I know the game of football has changed beyond recognition, so perhaps the comparison i make is irrelevant..........However A certain Brian Clough transformed Notts Forest many moons ago by devising a plan and structure of play, and then bringing in individual players for comparitively small fees to do certain and specific jobs in the formation and tactics he devised.  It proved to be massively successful. I remember at the time hardly recognising some of the players names, as they were a mixture of journeymen and discoveries by his scouts. As it was the system that was important, so as long as the player knew his job, being star names was not essential [Obviously things moved on eventually, with the purchase of the 1st million pound player, Trevor Francis!]  The point being, although football is much more of a squad game, and diet and fitness has greatly improved.......to be successful it's a good idea to formulate a style and pattern of play, and also have variations to combat different scenarios, then bring in players over a period of  transfer windows to fill the roles you require and gradually mold these players to play the system that they have been brought in to perform. Round pegs, round holes. I wonder if our little Lee has considered this approach?

I still think there's something to be said for a Peter Taylor type to help define exactly what's required. To me the recruitment doesn't feel joined up enough. It's all well and good signing multiple players that are the right age/DNA and having a pools of defenders or midfielders to slot in as and when, but they got to be damn good to pull that off. Better than we've been signing. Would Cantona or Gazza have passed out DNA test? Are we putting too much faith in DNA?

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Mathieu Louis Jean played his part in finding Kodjia didn't he?

Yes, but can’t believe Cotts would’ve signed him unless he thought he could play....and he could!  You don’t expect a manager to unearth the players, but once presented to him, he’s got to be sure of them.  Cotts never called him out as "a player with the footballing intelligence of a 19 year old” either, Cotts got him onside with his “Jimmy Dangers” stuff, brought Louis-Jean back in to help JK settle (iirc), and I think the £50k on Garita was more about helping Kodjia.

There's another thing- he has gone, he was a dedicated foreign scout with presumably a fairly up to date knowledge of foreign market...Mervyn Day is a good scout I'm sure but his knowledge is not in this area- let him do what he does best and get in a proper replacement for MLJ IMO.

Agreed.  No need for  Louis-Jean, when all you need is Ashton to put his database back into place, which Cotts had threw away. 

 

[Wrongagain]

LJ said he needed leaders, he had them and they let him know he was off track, he is glad they are gone now but he has not found his leaders in the current squad, simply because he himself is not up to leading, FM starts and we are short a “player” straight away, Pato inevitably gets on and we are short another!  The players all know the situation and his ineptitude effects their confidence!

No it’s not an LJ out thread but it’s a thread where many comentators who have steadfastly supported our former reluctant number 8 have realised he is not and never will be the messiah!

get someone in that the fans and players can respect FFS!

COYR

[Davefevs]

4 hours ago, hodge said:

Pisano will be off in the summer, why not recruit a RB if the right one is available in January?

Think Mrs Pisano’s rant on twitter a month or so back sewed those seeds.  Expect Eros with contract expiring, was asking what future lie ahead.  Expect the answer back was “no extension”.

[exAtyeoMax]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Think Mrs Pisano’s rant on twitter a month or so back sewed those seeds.  Expect Eros with contract expiring, was asking what future lie ahead.  Expect the answer back was “no extension”.

What was that?

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

What was that?

Of course might be nothing to do with Eros. 

[Lrrr]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Of course might be nothing to do with Eros. 

Seems like it but at the same extent it's professional football, there's always someone better than you 

[Super]

Beginning to think Pisano might be better than Hunt and Pisano is useless.

[Mr Popodopolous]

25 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

I just think you need both really- as good a scouting network (cost permitting) as you can feasibly create.

If Mervyn Day oversees it all and you have a dedicated foreign scout who knows the foreign game yet also with a knowledge of England (MLJ played for Forest IIRC), then all the better- our infrastructure is still developing, but look at Norwich they seem to have found decent number of bargains in the foreign market. Pukki on a free for one!

[Major Isewater]

6 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I just think you need both really- as good a scouting network (cost permitting) as you can feasibly create.

If Mervyn Day oversees it all and you have a dedicated foreign scout who knows the foreign game yet also with a knowledge of England (MLJ played for Forest IIRC), then all the better- our infrastructure is still developing, but look at Norwich they seem to have found decent number of bargains in the foreign market. Pukki on a free for one!

That's sickening.

[Davefevs]

8 hours ago, hodge said:

Seems like it but at the same extent it's professional football, there's always someone better than you 

Exactly. Must’ve known the risk coming here on a two year deal in his early 30s.