If LJ was to leave (Merged many times)

[Redstart]

Its a yes from me.

I think we are at the stage now where we are crying out for an experienced manager with most importantly Championship experience.

Working with restricted budgets and the ability to read a game I personally would welcome Mick in a heartbeat.

[Super]

34 minutes ago, bris red said:

Paul Scholes? Yeah another managerial rooky, just what we need.

As a player manager I would certainly take him!

[Son of Fred]

10 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

SL had his fingers seriously burnt by Coppell....the last big name we recruited....the ones appointed post the Coppell debacle is a relatively sorry list....Millen, McInnes, O’Driscoll, Cotts, LJ....only Cotts achieved anything....it seems that Mr Lansdown has tarnished every potential ‘big’ name with the Coppell ‘brush’....SL obviously has our best interests at heart...but Coppell seems to have made him shy away from proven successful managers, for some reason....

Would that really be the reason why???............

That's like getting divorced,eventually meeting someone else that you really like/respect & talking yourself out of asking them to meet you for dinner..........

You have to get over it.

[ashton_fan]

12 hours ago, southvillekiddy said:

SL would never wear it - petrified of losing control.

Doesn't look like SL can change so we are well and truly in the soft stuff

The next one will be another of his poodles

His thinking must be affected by previous managers such as Pulis and Cotts who gave him a hard time and weren't willing to work with a team

[BobBobSuperBob]

13 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Not sure if you’re being facetious or not, but I do think it’s a very valid point.

I do think one of his weaknesses is that he has not got the playing pedigree to fall back back on.  I know the likes of Mourinho and Wenger didn’t either.  For all LJ’s reading and modern thinking, is his fall-back and fundamentals driven / influenced by his Dad?  His Dad was very much what you see is what you get.  LJ is a bit more complex than that, wanting to come across as the educated young coach (dispelling he’s anything like his Dad), but in fact behind that facade (and in the confines of the dressing room / training ground) I think he’s very different.. and in fact very much like Gary.

That lack of playing pedigree I think brings an insecurity.  He only (only - context of pro game) played regularly at Championship level at City, under his dad, appearances reducing after Gary left. At City, some fans appreciated the give and go, short passing style, but I don’t think anyone ever saw him as the main main, a star of the team, like other players in that era.  That insecurity brings over-compensation in trying to be that bit smarter, but it means apart from under his dad, what managers has he worked under as a player?  Nobody of any real significance.  Please correct me here.  He then went pretty much into coaching following release by Kilmarnock, so not even been Assistant to anyone of note either.  In fairness he’s had a tough entry to management but he’s sought that route.

Wenger - had Jean-Marc Gillou (a French International in 78 WC) as his manager as he learned the ropes.  Went to Nancy under Aldo Platini (yes, the father of Michel).  The rest is history.

Mourinho - we all know he started as interpreter for Robson at Barcelona, but earned his assistant manager stripes under Van Gaal.  The rest is history.

Add in new managers like Gerrard and Lampard.  They command respect (initially) for their playing careers and will have learned from several greats.  That won’t make them great managers, but it’s a better foundation than LJ.  They can bypass some of the ‘theory”, because they were both good enough and intelligent footballers at the top level.

Who has LJ learned from?  Who has he served an apprenticeship under?  Nobody of any note.  You can throw in mentors like Dalglish, Marwood, frienships with Pep and Jose, but they aren’t there with him on a day to day basis.  He’s got Mark Effin Ashton spouting shit above him.

He’s got no-one around him to pose questions to, get advice on what they did in a similar scenario....Holden and Macca can’t provide that, they’ve never been in LJ’s situation.  They are also no threat to his head-coach position, whether that has any relevance I don’t know.

Ok, so how had an Eddie Howe struck gold? Serving a proper apprenticeship in the lower leagues, he’s been able to grow with Bournemouth.

What about Sean Dyche?  Didn’t have a stellar playing career, certainly not at City (!!), but he did his years at Watford, becoming Malky Mackay’s assistant.  Mackay was a progressive coach, who’d been at Celtic at Norwich, learning from Tommy Burns, Wim Jansen, Bryan Hamilton.

Lee has jumped into the deep end, and at Oldham he survived, built a bit of a reputation, got a call from Barnsley, but in honesty had a mixed bag there.  I really don’t believe he would’ve got anywhere near a job here had it not been for his affinity here.  It was a massive gamble from SL.  I don’t believe SL put the right structure around him.  LJ may not have wanted it, and I suspect he would have interviewed fantastically to a non-football man like SL, and convinced him easily that he was the right choice.

I think both SL and LJ are at a bit of a crossroads (no Benny jokes please), and the spell to Xmas may be defining.  I would be more than happy to say I was wrong, LJ turns us around and leads us forward.

What a great , and interesting , post

Absolutely smashed it

 

[And Its Smith]

Everyone who wants him would want him out within 18 months. 

[Major Isewater]

4 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Everyone who wants him would want him out within 18 months. 

Mystic Red . 

[David Brent]

7 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Everyone who wants him would want him out within 18 months. 

That’s a lifetime in football

[Major Isewater]

Personally , McCarthy , I believe he would stabilise the team , isn't an ego maniac and has a good record.

He is a available without needing to throw compensation at his club. 

With the proviso that he still has the fire in his belly.

 I believe SL will promote from within . If Holden or Macca don't go with LJ he'll stick with what he knows and move them up most probably bringing in Cole Skuse or Louis Carey to assist .

 

[exAtyeoMax]

Has Wilbs done his badges yet?

I think MA is the sticking point. They would have to be able to work with him.

[Lez]

Good morning everyone,

With Lees c0ntract due to expire at the end of next season, what do you think the likely outcomes are? Granted we still have a year and half to run so lots of variables to potentially happen, but what do we think is the likely process?

I find it hard to believe that Lee will be sacked, assuming that we continue as we are, imo, underachieving with Lee unable to take advantage of the enviable resources he has been given, surely there would be uproar if he offered a fresh deal?

I can see this now, we dont make the progress we want, we are still a confused side and both sides agree Lee to leave at end of his contract, both sides save face....Lee has reputation in tact and Steve Lansdown and Mark Ashton spin the mutual decision to thank Lee for the excellent job he has apparently done.

How do you think fans would react if he was given a new deal when it isnt potentially deserved?

Could this be a realistic scenario going forward into next season?

[Hampshire reds]

I would go with Mick. knows the LG. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

14 hours ago, Davefevs said:

 

That lack of playing pedigree I think brings an insecurity.  He only (only - context of pro game) played regularly at Championship level at City, under his dad, appearances reducing after Gary left. At City, some fans appreciated the give and go, short passing style, but I don’t think anyone ever saw him as the main main, a star of the team, like other players in that era.  That insecurity brings over-compensation in trying to be that bit smarter, but it means apart from under his dad, what managers has he worked under as a player?  Nobody of any real significance.  Please correct me here.  He then went pretty much into coaching following release by Kilmarnock, so not even been Assistant to anyone of note either.  In fairness he’s had a tough entry to management but he’s sought that route.

 

As I said Dave , a very insightful and thought provoking post

As for any correction , I double checked and there isn’t any to be made 

He played in reality only under his Dad save a brief spell at Hearts (Graham Rix  signed him But was fired two months later and LJ wasn’t playing after that) and in the last days of his career at Kilmarnock  Under the renowned.....Kenny Shiels

I liked GJ immensely , but LJ certainly had a one dimensional tutorship

[The Original OTIB]

McCarthy averages over 5 years per job. He's only had 5 in nearly 27 years. The epitome of stability. Tell me anyone else (still working at the moment) at this level or above in the UK with a better average per job? He just gets on with things with minimal fuss. I'd give it to him until the end of the season and then see where we are. It won't happen though.

[Fuber]

10 hours ago, RobintheRed Red said:

No another dower bloke sods brother

Don't know. That burn the other day on Souness was savage.

[swanker]

All about options I suppose. Mentioned his name to a mate of mine who stopped watching city about a year ago because of Johnson.  His response was “ I’d be down Aston Gate like a shot if they got Scholes in” 

Can you imagine the respect he’d get from the players? 

He’ll be a manager soon, maybe Oldham? Let’s see how the rookie does? 

[EnderMB]

If we were to get rid of LJ, I'd want us to go for someone a bit different, either someone with experience abroad that would like the challenge of managing at a club with aspirations, or a brand-new manager with something to prove.

Marcelo Gallardo would be ambitious. He's the River Plate manager that caught my eye after the River Plate v Boca final happening right now. He's apparently won in every club he's managed, but has expressed an interest in managing in Europe. Who better to join than a club with ambitions to join the Premier League, and a billionaire owner? Another bold shout with be Quique Sanchez Flores, who managed Watford a while back. He's without a job, and although the Championship might be a step down, he's got the personality to tell Lansdown what is needed for success.

Outside of a big name, I'd be happy to see a first-time flop take over. Gary Neville ****** up with England and Valencia, but would probably find the Championship to be more his level. Give him a short-term contract with the chance to renew after six months, and see where he goes. The same goes for Thierry Henry, who probably won't last the end of the year with Monaco. Both Neville and Henry would be licking their wounds, and would be more than eager to find a club that offers the chance of redemption.

[Allwaysred]

Morning gents & Ladies,

Now I've had a few days to reflect and discus how poor we actually we're on Saturday with several people it all seemed to come back to 1 thing and that was how poor we we're as a whole team from the touchline to the field to the stands... As a diehard red I'm finding hard to see positives moving forward and fear this repetitive poor run is well in motion to what will be a crucial home game against an awkward Millwall side.. Surely all who have backed LJ and his philosophy must now be looking at the next blocks of games and be thinking the bottom 3 is getting closer game by game???? If you haven't seen Matthew Withers report take a look and reflect and take it in as it's bang on how I feel and I'm sure many others do.... Time for change. Please let me know your thoughts peoples... 

[nebristolred]

People want LJ out due to poor results and mainly inexperience and as a replacement they want Paul Scholes. Christ I despair.

He may well end up being a decent manager but my word, the last thing we need is another complete and utter punt. When it comes to people like Scholes, there is absolutely nothing to back up the claim that he would be suitable for us. Not a thing. None of us know how he's done at a club, none of us have seen him coach, we've just seen him play football. 

[ChippenhamRed]

3 hours ago, RedDave said:

Everyone who wants him would want him out within 18 months. 

Dave rather than constantly throwing in contentious one-liners, why not put together a proper argument explaining why you would be against McCarthy coming here?

Most people have disagreed with your suggestion that he is akin to Pulis, and plenty of us have put forward the argument in favour, primarily because he has a proven track record of success in this division - not something you could say about any coach in our recent history.  I'd like to hear a proper counter-argument.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, swanker said:

All about options I suppose. Mentioned his name to a mate of mine who stopped watching city about a year ago because of Johnson.  His response was “ I’d be down Aston Gate like a shot if they got Scholes in” 

Can you imagine the respect he’d get from the players? 

He’ll be a manager soon, maybe Oldham? Let’s see how the rookie does? 

What happened to a previous Oldham manager of Rookie status!!!!!

[The Coach]

How come someone like Frank Lampard can come in with no experience, make a pretty good start with Derby and have them challenging. While LJ cannot over a couple of seasons, and spent so much money on players? 

I have not seen Derby play much so cannot comment on their style of football. But if Lampard came here, would he have more success and time as LJ? 

[Sweeneys Penalties]

5 minutes ago, Red_Wizard said:

How come someone like Frank Lampard can come in with no experience, make a pretty good start with Derby and have them challenging. While LJ cannot over a couple of seasons, and spent so much money on players? 

I have not seen Derby play much so cannot comment on their style of football. But if Lampard came here, would he have more success and time as LJ? 

I'd imagine Frank had some fantastic contacts in the game. One of my colleagues used to play for Derby, and contacts was the first thing he mentioned when Frank took over at Pride Park

[The Original OTIB]

4 minutes ago, Red_Wizard said:

How come someone like Frank Lampard can come in with no experience, make a pretty good start with Derby and have them challenging. While LJ cannot over a couple of seasons, and spent so much money on players? 

I have not seen Derby play much so cannot comment on their style of football. But if Lampard came here, would he have more success and time as LJ? 

Personality, Respect, Gravitas. Not playing the fool and giggling nervously. That will do for a start.

[Bristol is red]

What I don't understand is, most want an experienced manager should LJ leave.

That means someone with lots of experience atleast at our level, so probably an older head.

However any older manager with vasts amount of Championship experience gets considered a dinosaur by a fair few.

[The Coach]

2 minutes ago, Sweeneys Penalties said:

I'd imagine Frank had some fantastic contacts in the game. One of my colleagues used to play for Derby, and contacts was the first thing he mentioned when Frank took over at Pride Park

Indeed contacts and networking are important and beneficial. However, you still need to coach and handle players and their personalities. Lampard so far seems to have his finger on the buzzer. 

 

2 minutes ago, The Original OTIB said:

Personality, Respect, Gravitas. Not playing the fool and giggling nervously. That will do for a start.

I believe Lampard has the full respect and admiration of his playing squad. Johnson, I’m not so sure on.

[swanker]

14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

What happened to a previous Oldham manager of Rookie status!!!!!

He’s down here!!!!

All joking aside Scholes has a massive amount of respect in the game and I’m sure he’ll become a decent manager soon. We’ll miss a trick on that one for sure and I’d love him here. 

[Major Isewater]

7 minutes ago, swanker said:

He’s down here!!!!

All joking aside Scholes has a massive amount of respect in the game and I’m sure he’ll become a decent manager soon. We’ll miss a trick on that one for sure and I’d love him here. 

I'd rather have Mark Robins than Paul Scholes. 

[The Original OTIB]

17 minutes ago, swanker said:

He’s down here!!!!

All joking aside Scholes has a massive amount of respect in the game and I’m sure he’ll become a decent manager soon. We’ll miss a trick on that one for sure and I’d love him here. 

Professional northerner. Would not move. Bolton would be my best bet.

[And Its Smith]

1 hour ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Dave rather than constantly throwing in contentious one-liners, why not put together a proper argument explaining why you would be against McCarthy coming here?

Most people have disagreed with your suggestion that he is akin to Pulis, and plenty of us have put forward the argument in favour, primarily because he has a proven track record of success in this division - not something you could say about any coach in our recent history.  I'd like to hear a proper counter-argument.

I have said I dont want McCarthy and that I want to watch attractive football.  I don't think McCarthy plays attractive football.  

Surprised you need it spelling out.  I dont care if he has achieved promotion before.  There are a fair few managers at this level who have achieved success that I wouldn't want.

Tony Pulis, Sam Allardyce, Neil Warnock, Mick McCarthy, Ian Holloway, Phil Brown.  No thanks. 

I appreciate I am in the minority in that I put style of football over league position.  I would rather watch a Fulham type performance in a 4-4 draw than a dire long-ball 1-0 win.