The Championship FFP Thread (Merged)

[chinapig]

1 hour ago, Rob26 said:

The Everton Football Club owner, Farhad Moshiri, received more than £400m from Alisher Usmanov companies in the run-up to the Russian billionaire being placed under sanctions, documents suggest, raising fresh questions about the financial ties between the two men.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/sep/26/everton-fc-owner-alisher-usmanov-farhad-moshiri

And:

Everton’s financial future could be in doubt unless takeover approved.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/sep/27/everton-financial-future-takeover-approved-777-partnerse

[Mr Popodopolous]

Saw something quite interesting about Huddersfield in the Football League Paper.

I'll try and summarise:

1) There is a 3 Year Plan to go for promotion to the PL.

2) They are restricted but not necessarily under FFP, more the Future Financial Information that all clubs and especially new owners submit. 

3) Nagle submitted a pretty conservative plan based on their position at time of takeover. Expect them to go for it a bit, whether that is this January or beyond remains to be seen.

4) As it stands though, they must adhere to this plan or face risk of embargo or other sanctions. If he shows the money to be more expansive this can of course chance provided a revised plan remains within FFP.

5) CFRP effectively mark the homework of clubs.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

Little more on that FFP/FFI issue. 

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/football/news/huddersfield-town-ffp-transfer-window-27564288

Edited September 27, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

While I certainly have sympathy with anyone who has a terrible owner and Reading fans were notably more magnanimous than Derby, Sheffield Wednesday and perhaps even Birmingham when FFP went wrong, I dislike this element of special pleading albeit local MP or similar.

The bit that irks here is point 1

"Ask the Football League not to make any further points deductions in this case".

Sorry but the rules are the rules and special pleading should form no part.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[W-S-M Seagull]

4 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

While I certainly have sympathy with anyone who has a terrible owner and Reading fans were notably more magnanimous than Derby, Sheffield Wednesday and perhaps even Birmingham when FFP went wrong, I dislike this element of special pleading albeit local MP or similar.

The bit that irks here is point 1

"Ask the Football League not to make any further points deductions in this case".

Sorry but the rules are the rules and special pleading should form no part.

Personally I despise points deductions. The only people they impact is the fans and certainly not a dodgy owner. 

What I'd suggest is that owners should pay a bond. Let's say 5 million for example. If the owners breach the rules, they lose their bond. If at the end of their ownership they've not breached any rules, they get their bond back. 

But whilst we have club owners making the decisions in football, we'll never see anything like that. 

[semblar]

5 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Personally I despise points deductions. The only people they impact is the fans and certainly not a dodgy owner. 

What I'd suggest is that owners should pay a bond. Let's say 5 million for example. If the owners breach the rules, they lose their bond. If at the end of their ownership they've not breached any rules, they get their bond back. 

But whilst we have club owners making the decisions in football, we'll never see anything like that. 

The problem with that would be setting the size of the bond. £5m is small change to some owners, including SL. It would in effect be a one-off fee to ignore the rules

[Mr Popodopolous]

10 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Personally I despise points deductions. The only people they impact is the fans and certainly not a dodgy owner. 

What I'd suggest is that owners should pay a bond. Let's say 5 million for example. If the owners breach the rules, they lose their bond. If at the end of their ownership they've not breached any rules, they get their bond back. 

But whilst we have club owners making the decisions in football, we'll never see anything like that. 

Perfectly valid regulatory position to hold. I do feel sympathy for Reading fans but precedents have been set too.

That is an interesting idea, owner has a bond dependent on conduct and competence basically.

Yes football effectively self-regulates on many issues. Owners vote for the regs which are then implemented by the League and FA are a lot less stringent than they should be.

[Mr Popodopolous]

I am also still trying to work out exactly what the rule E.48 entails. Sounds like potential for real time Disciplinary?? Perhaps some hand holding in the January window.

T means the existing season I thought. Unless in this context it means the prior 3 seasons go in by late December rather than late March.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 hours ago, semblar said:

The problem with that would be setting the size of the bond. £5m is small change to some owners, including SL. It would in effect be a one-off fee to ignore the rules

That plus compliant clubs potentially lose out from bending or downright breaking of the rules by some. In other words a club can benefit greatly from bending or more egreriously outright breaking or ignoring the regulations that are in place.

[Leveller]

11 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Personally I despise points deductions. The only people they impact is the fans and certainly not a dodgy owner. 

What I'd suggest is that owners should pay a bond. Let's say 5 million for example. If the owners breach the rules, they lose their bond. If at the end of their ownership they've not breached any rules, they get their bond back. 

But whilst we have club owners making the decisions in football, we'll never see anything like that. 

I think points deductions are perfectly fair. You don’t see fans complaining about the success that reckless overspending can generate. Points deductions simply counter the unfair advantage that club owners seek to gain.

[Mr Popodopolous]

[Mr Popodopolous]

Not Championship related but this seems erm..fanciful.

Not denying a profit before tax with Barcelona is quire likely but the size..

How much was due to questionable accounting mechanisms?

They did forecast an €11m pre tax profit for this season which sounds more likely.

No problem with them selling future income but it should not be classed as revenue or profit. Cash flow and restructure sure.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

Birmingham lost up to £25m before tax last season.

HKSE results, they're in HK$ so treat with some caution but.

https://www1.hkexnews.hk/listedco/listconews/sehk/2023/0928/2023092802063.pdf

Little early for them them usually submit bang on the day! As in 30th September. I suppose it's a Saturday this time so.

You add the Football club segment compensation to the segment results and then you check against HK$ v £.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Rob26]

On 27/09/2023 at 22:15, Mr Popodopolous said:

While I certainly have sympathy with anyone who has a terrible owner and Reading fans were notably more magnanimous than Derby, Sheffield Wednesday and perhaps even Birmingham when FFP went wrong, I dislike this element of special pleading albeit local MP or similar.

The bit that irks here is point 1

"Ask the Football League not to make any further points deductions in this case".

Sorry but the rules are the rules and special pleading should form no part.

just an mp tagging their name to something for attention, he knows and it will result in nothing, its just typical mp pandering. 

On 28/09/2023 at 02:18, W-S-M Seagull said:

Personally I despise points deductions. The only people they impact is the fans and certainly not a dodgy owner. 

What I'd suggest is that owners should pay a bond. Let's say 5 million for example. If the owners breach the rules, they lose their bond. If at the end of their ownership they've not breached any rules, they get their bond back. 

But whilst we have club owners making the decisions in football, we'll never see anything like that. 

thats open to more abuse tho, say 5m bond, they pay that to break the rules 

i disagree they do not affect the owner tho, all these sanctions over the last few years has definitely made reading worth less (for anyone trying to take over)

I know fans take a hit but you need them punishments in place for when the alternatives are not working, and lets face it the clubs getting points taken off them are having multiple times where these points deductions can be avoided before it happens. you need stiffer punishments there to move the clubs down the leagues for their persistent offences. 

I think faceless punishments that don't affect you in the league is why some of these owners think they can make the same mistakes again paying people late etc and think they will just get an embargo or suspended punishment, efl gotta enforce something along the lines, and I think they have been generous with Reading that they have only been docked 4 points this season tbh. Although they may be more to come :laugh: 

[WarksRobin]

 

[TV Tom]

5 minutes ago, WarksRobin said:

 

We are so lucky to have SL

[Rob26]

heres the full statement, its pretty high up the bat shit crazy out bursts you could probs have, looks to me he is using it as an excuse to stop putting money into the club

https://www.swfc.co.uk/news/2023/september/dejphon-chansiri-club-statement_/

[Bristol Rob]

Everton 777 doubts.

 

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/eveton-takeover-777-partners-vasco-31058954

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

I habe read it the Chansiri statement and some bits I am struggling to reconcile.

His £2m a month..Maybe since the start ie 2015 to present but the accounts of late show a fairly moderate input. Perhaps a lot is frontloaded to 2019.

Ticket prices rising again, the bump in TV and commercial revenue at this level..

Player wages will have risen hut they weren't all that expansive in the market were they. I looked at their 2021-22 (most recently released) accounts and thought they were quite frugal.

Perhaps he will seek to run them on a cash breakeven basis moving forward and or use loans secured against Hillsborough to top up the cash flow ie not his money as such.

[Mr Popodopolous]

The other bit to consider is, whether he is including Deferred Proceeds from the 2019 transaction in his monthly cash estimate. At end of 2021-22, £45m had been paid- there was £15m left which was due within 12 months. Presumably that will have been paid in 2022-23 or by July 2023.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Should add and definitely not crowing.

However most of those who sold and leased back fixed assets to assist with FFP certainly ended up in a mess.

Derby- although it was the amortisation and subsequent admin that nearly did for them, before Clowes stepped up.

Reading- Sold the bulk of their assets and where did it get them..a right mess that's where.

Sheffield Wednesday- Up until this summer Chansiri appeared to have turned over a new leaf but..

Only Aston Villa truly flourished and prospered.

Birmingham have been meh and selling the stadium merely staved off a 2nd fail rather than pushing them on. Maybe now with US investment..

Stoke so far likewise albeit still early in their new project. The Covid Loss allocation far more contentious.

The only one to truly gamble and significantly win however was Aston Villa.

[downendcity]

On 28/09/2023 at 07:57, semblar said:

The problem with that would be setting the size of the bond. £5m is small change to some owners, including SL. It would in effect be a one-off fee to ignore the rules

...especially so if ignoring/getting round the rules leads yo promotion and premier league riches.

[Mr Popodopolous]

I also must wonder about the HS2 compensation and Aston Villa several years ago.

That seems well out of kilter with a quick Google of HS2 compensation.

They got £14.4m and perhaps as much as £20m over the piece because their exceptional operating income it appeared in 3 sets of accounts.

I genuinely dislike Aston Villa, Hawkeye malfunctioning after the Covid enforced pause also helped to save them from probable big issues.

Anyone who looked at their accounts will have known about this years ago but an article outlining how and why.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12550231/aston-villa-hs2-compensation-taxpayers-money.html

Edited September 29, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

Looked into it a bit further.

HS2 went through 10 percent of Aston Villa's Training Ground according to a 2016 report.

Was stated as 2 pitches.

Can someone begin to align the compensation and the speed of payment to commercial value here...?

£14.4m in 2018-19 alone and up to or pushing £20m across the piece.

10 pct..Bodymoor Heath would have to have been worth £144-200m surely??

Edited September 29, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[WarksRobin]

13 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Looked into it a bit further.

HS2 went through 10 percent of Aston Villa's Training Ground according to a 2016 report.

Was stated as 2 pitches.

Can someone begin to align the compensation and the speed of payment to commercial value here...?

£14.4m in 2018-19 alone and up to or pushing £20m across the piece.

10 pct..Bodymoor Heath would have to have been worth £144-200m surely??

That’s compensation for property blight. Villa would be paid for the value of the land needed for HS2. Slightly different things.

[Mr Popodopolous]

13 hours ago, WarksRobin said:

That’s compensation for property blight. Villa would be paid for the value of the land needed for HS2. Slightly different things.

Thanks, still value of the land..pretty sure I read they still train at Bodymoor Heath, or is it rebuilt in a place not affected.

Anyway given infrastructure investment is excluded from FFP, surely that should be too.

There is something quite objectionable about many Midlands clubs although could just be me..I especially dislike Aston Villa. I include Stoke in Midlands as they're sort of and I rather dislike them.

Edited September 30, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[WarksRobin]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Thanks, still value of the land..pretty sure I read they still train at Bodymoor Heath, or is it rebuilt in a place not affected.

Anyway given infrastructure investment is excluded from FFP, surely that should be too.

There is something quite objectionable about many Midlands clubs although could just be me..I especially dislike Aston Villa. I include Stoke in Midlands as they're sort of and I rather dislike them.

Part of the training ground was purchased by HS2 but it’s a big site and still usable by Villa

[Mr Popodopolous]

42 minutes ago, WarksRobin said:

Part of the training ground was purchased by HS2 but it’s a big site and still usable by Villa

Seems pretty suspect to me at least that price and that speed of being sorted, reinforces my intense dislike of them anyway.

I'm not kidding when I say had they gone into admin in 2018, it would have been a good thing.

They're arrogant, spawny, slimy, entitled.

Edited September 30, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12576411/West-Brom-Guochuan-Lai.html

[Mr Popodopolous]

18 hours ago, WarksRobin said:

Part of the training ground was purchased by HS2 but it’s a big site and still usable by Villa

Found a bit more on it.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/aston-villa-line-hs2-compensation-9250409#amp-readmore-target

Spent £9m upgrading apparently. Compensation nearly double.

Then it states 10 pct of the training the ground.

Plus the speed and privileged access- House of Lords HS2 Select Committee etc.

I wish they'd gone bust in all honesty. Or at least into admin.

Edited October 1, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous