Rugby Union v Football

[Red Skin]

Firstly, I must lay my cards on the table and say I am no rugby fan but years ago I used to enjoy watching the game.   (I'm excluding rugby league from this as I still think that is a better game).

Football rules have changed to encourage skillful play with the emphasis on protecting players and by and large letting the game flow.  The laws of the game tend to favour the attacking team, and stronger and stronger sanctions have been brought in to punish overly aggressive tackling.  

Smaller more technical players flourish and whilst there are still Pulis type land of the giants teams around, generally quicker, nimbler, and gift players flourish.  Thankfully, our own Joe Morrell and Liam Walsh have their place in the game.

Players nutrition and training regimes have improved  enormously.  That  along  with greater  protection mhas  meant players enjoy longer careers in the game.

The teams that play the best, most attacking football are generally successful.  Man City and Liverpool fighting it out at the top of the Premiership.

Sure, there is play acting and diving but generally the game has moved in the right direction.

Contrast this with rugby union.   Rugby union seems to be more a game of a gladiatorial conflict than anything else.   Players are huge and almost cannot even survive a game due to the attrition of constant tackling.   Substitutions are needed to replace the wounded and less for tactical reasons.  Players seem to be retiring younger and younger due to injuries.  

The free running try scoring of years gone by (remember that barbarians try??!!) has been replaced with kicking for territory and kicking penalties.   

Seems to me football has changed to make the game better, but rugby developed in a way that has removed all the good things about the game I used to enjoy.

[22A]

I agree with your points, but would add that although perfectly valid for te 5 a side games, players in Rugby 7s tend to be slim, lithe athletes as that is far more of a running game.

I am a football fan, but for many years accepted that provided it was played in the right spirit, rugby was a better game to both watch and more importantly, play.

[City Cat]

Agree with just about everything you say mate, good post. I guess for me the two issues are:

1.) They are trying to make the game more inclusive at a school level. I played rugby at school in the 70's and it was basically kill or be killed. This meant that many less aggressive lads were put off for life, probably wasting in tapped talent.

2.) The game is now professional and it's all about money at top level. 

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

If rugby disappeared tomorrow, then I'd have a ******* street party.

[Red Skin]

2 hours ago, 22A said:

I agree with your points, but would add that although perfectly valid for te 5 a side games, players in Rugby 7s tend to be slim, lithe athletes as that is far more of a running game.

Yes rugby 7s does flow and is quick, but playing on such a massive pitch undermines it really.  

[Murraysrightplum]

SOD says pointless question 

[handsofclay]

2 hours ago, City Cat said:

Agree with just about everything you say mate, good post. I guess for me the two issues are:

1.) They are trying to make the game more inclusive at a school level. I played rugby at school in the 70's and it was basically kill or be killed. This meant that many less aggressive lads were put off for life, probably wasting in tapped talent.

2.) The game is now professional and it's all about money at top level. 

Ditto. I was always picked to be a scrum half in P.E. If I didn't distribute the ball within half a second of taking possession of it I risked a severe kicking and beating. That ball was the hottest of hot potatoes. Sod displaying any skill or running with the thing. Get rid, pronto. Whoever I passed it to also held onto it for a millisecond. The teachers did nothing to curb the thuggery and seemed to obtain a voyeuristic perverse pleasure from it.

Years later, I joined in with a session of rugby organised by a neighbour where I didn't have to fear for my life and rather enjoyed it. I just wish the rugby had been played like that at school.

[Fatknacker]

2 hours ago, RedSkin said:

Firstly, I must lay my cards on the table and say I am no rugby fan but years ago I used to enjoy watching the game.   (I'm excluding rugby league from this as I still think that is a better game).

Football rules have changed to encourage skillful play with the emphasis on protecting players and by and large letting the game flow.  The laws of the game tend to favour the attacking team, and stronger and stronger sanctions have been brought in to punish overly aggressive tackling.  

Smaller more technical players flourish and whilst there are still Pulis type land of the giants teams around, generally quicker, nimbler, and gift players flourish.  Thankfully, our own Joe Morrell and Liam Walsh have their place in the game.

Players nutrition and training regimes have improved  enormously.  That  along  with greater  protection mhas  meant players enjoy longer careers in the game.

The teams that play the best, most attacking football are generally successful.  Man City and Liverpool fighting it out at the top of the Premiership.

Sure, there is play acting and diving but generally the game has moved in the right direction.

Contrast this with rugby union.   Rugby union seems to be more a game of a gladiatorial conflict than anything else.   Players are huge and almost cannot even survive a game due to the attrition of constant tackling.   Substitutions are needed to replace the wounded and less for tactical reasons.  Players seem to be retiring younger and younger due to injuries.  

The free running try scoring of years gone by (remember that barbarians try??!!) has been replaced with kicking for territory and kicking penalties.   

Seems to me football has changed to make the game better, but rugby developed in a way that has removed all the good things about the game I used to enjoy.

As you've said, not a rugby fan which I guess is why you've missed the whole point of rugby...it is a gladiatorial contest.

Starting with front row against front row and moving back through all the other units, it is first and foremost a contest to achieve physical domination of your opposite number and then you run in a few points.

I don't think you'll find many rugby fans who would swap the modern game for that of 30 years ago except we all enjoyed watching and participating in a couple of twenty man tear ups two or three times a game, which pretty much seem to have disappeared from the modern game...at least at the highest level, where there always seems to be a camera on the look out for the most minor of indiscretions.

 

[Red Skin]

3 hours ago, Fatknacker said:

As you've said, not a rugby fan which I guess is why you've missed the whole point of rugby...it is a gladiatorial contest

I do get that to some extent, but the odd occasion I see a match the free running passing seems all but gone.  It's like the point of the game celebrating stopping it - the tackling - rather than have the laws of the game work to promote free running game.

Watching two massive blokes smash into on another isn't my idea of a skillful sport.  Two bloke of inflatable sumo suits is more entertaining.

Rugby League is much better game IMHO.  

[Fatknacker]

27 minutes ago, RedSkin said:

I do get that to some extent, but the odd occasion I see a match the free running passing seems all but gone.  It's like the point of the game celebrating stopping it - the tackling - rather than have the laws of the game work to promote free running game.

Watching two massive blokes smash into on another isn't my idea of a skillful sport.  Two bloke of inflatable sumo suits is more entertaining.

Rugby League is much better game IMHO.  

I like rugby league as well and considered playing it at one stage of my career but when you break it down the game is basically forwards running at each other for 5 phases of contact before either a kick for position or an offload to a sneaky back to attempt a score.

[Red Skin]

34 minutes ago, Fatknacker said:

I like rugby league as well and considered playing it at one stage of my career

Career, eh?  Did you play professionally then? 

Used to love watching rugby league on the Grandstand as a kid..  At Helen were my favourite team back then.  They were winning everything at the time, but I think I just liked the shirts.

 

[Jcolebristol]

9 hours ago, RedSkin said:

Firstly, I must lay my cards on the table and say I am no rugby fan but years ago I used to enjoy watching the game.   (I'm excluding rugby league from this as I still think that is a better game).

Football rules have changed to encourage skillful play with the emphasis on protecting players and by and large letting the game flow.  The laws of the game tend to favour the attacking team, and stronger and stronger sanctions have been brought in to punish overly aggressive tackling.  

Smaller more technical players flourish and whilst there are still Pulis type land of the giants teams around, generally quicker, nimbler, and gift players flourish.  Thankfully, our own Joe Morrell and Liam Walsh have their place in the game.

Players nutrition and training regimes have improved  enormously.  That  along  with greater  protection mhas  meant players enjoy longer careers in the game.

The teams that play the best, most attacking football are generally successful.  Man City and Liverpool fighting it out at the top of the Premiership.

Sure, there is play acting and diving but generally the game has moved in the right direction.

Contrast this with rugby union.   Rugby union seems to be more a game of a gladiatorial conflict than anything else.   Players are huge and almost cannot even survive a game due to the attrition of constant tackling.   Substitutions are needed to replace the wounded and less for tactical reasons.  Players seem to be retiring younger and younger due to injuries.  

The free running try scoring of years gone by (remember that barbarians try??!!) has been replaced with kicking for territory and kicking penalties.   

Seems to me football has changed to make the game better, but rugby developed in a way that has removed all the good things about the game I used to enjoy.

Every year the amount of tries in six nations is going up? 

Game is becoming faster, harder and more  skill. Personally I think it’s getting better

[Fatknacker]

1 hour ago, RedSkin said:

Career, eh?  Did you play professionally then? 

Used to love watching rugby league on the Grandstand as a kid..  At Helen were my favourite team back then.  They were winning everything at the time, but I think I just liked the shirts.

 

I don't want to use my rugby background to give credibility to my post because "experts" are often wrong because they are too close to it and own some of the issues...but I think rugby is such a better game since my day, as another poster commented, more tries every year in the six nations, the pro game has revolutionised the game in terms of pace and the amount of time the ball is in play, it has taken much of what was is good about Rugby League and incorporated it into Union.

Personally I think the first weekend of Six Nations has been an incredible spectacle and advertisement for the game.

[Red Skin]

3 minutes ago, Fatknacker said:

I think rugby is such a better game since my day, as another poster commented, more tries every year in the six nations

Maybe I need to give it another try! 

[Fatknacker]

27 minutes ago, RedSkin said:

Maybe I need to give it another try! 

If you're fit, tough and durable enough then why not!

I'm 64 but wish I was young enough to give it a go now...the physicality is bizarre but the standards so high.

[Red Skin]

3 minutes ago, Fatknacker said:

If you're fit, tough and durable enough then why not!

I meant watching!!  I'm 54 mate.

[Fatknacker]

14 minutes ago, RedSkin said:

I meant watching!!  I'm 54 mate.

Then like me, you're better off watching!

[Rinkadink]

Have you gone to watch Bristol Bears under Pat Lam, RS?

Seems like a good match for what you value. Disclaimer; I like (and played) both codes but think Union is the better sport overall these days, especially in this country. Hull KR are my adopted League team though and no, it's got nothing to do with Robins. 

[Miah Dennehy]

I love rugby, I watch a fair bit locally and go to a fair few internationals as well. It has definitely changed in the professional era. Players are huge now, 6 foot plus hookers and locks who are considered on the short side at 6' 5". This leads to the huge collisions you see now more akin to American football and also -as the OP pointed out- the inability to last a whole game. How many replacements were used in yesterdays game? God knows, it is nigh on impossible to keep count and coaches plan replacements well in advance. There are no 'tired' legs at the end of  a game because half the team have only just come on!

It was bound to happen with professionalism and we will see smaller players discarded as they go through the youth academies (just as they are in football) Johnny Wilkinson? Sorry mate you're only 5' 10" , you'll never make it.

I think it is still a fantastic sport to watch and I enjoy the physical aspect of it, I just think the more 'elite' the game tries to be, the more it will lose in the long run.