fao Julie H

[RedRaw]

1 hour ago, RedM said:

. They would of had no idea from our appearance that we had been to the match,

They probably noticed the wheat sticking out of your mouth

[East End Old Boy]

58 minutes ago, 42nite said:

There may be a legal requirement for the stadium to know exactly how many people are in the ground in case of emergencies (Hillsborough, Bradford), and even though the turnstile ticket entry may have been turned off, the number of people passing through the turning gates could well have been registered.

However, this would have been negated if doors were opened as well.

Just looking for some clarification from Julie.

Thought she had already stated that all the Swansea late arrivals entered via the turnstiles?

Although, were the turnstiles ever ungraded in the Atyeo, so unsure of the speed and also the number in operation.

[East End Old Boy]

30 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

A **** would react negatively obviously.

Said **** might be a regular with 20 mates however.

If you think its a better idea to attempt the removal of that person with the associated reaction rather than suggest the two one off visitors look elsewhere then with respect you do not have a clue.

From my experience there are plenty living in Cardiff who don’t have a traditional Welsh accent, that’s now saved for the ones coming there from the valleys, or Swansea!

[REDOXO]

18 hours ago, BigAlToby&Liam said:

So would I. But I don’t think it would make me want to fight with anyone though.....

These are the questions I’ve asked of @JulieH and are the ones I’m waiting for an answer. I’m guessing I’m on ignore

Who agreed to allow Swansea an almost 50% more tickets and why?

Why were those fans who enjoyed an escort so late?

Why - after trouble during the game - were both sets of fans allowed to leave at the same time?

I’d really like to know the answers to these questions. Ultimate responsibility for the behaviour on Saturday rests with those who were behind it.

That however shouldn’t be used as an excuse for failure of decisions or planning on behalf of others - be that BCFC, the stewards or the police.

My understanding is that ticket allocations for the away side is a guaranteed 2000 tickets rising to 10% of the ground if manageable (I guess there is an initial allocation but those are the rules I am aware of).  What did Swansea have 2400 or so? That would suggest the extra amount from there entitlement was not that excessive above the minimum

The Club. clearly. But as above there is an entitlement up to 2000 so if they ask for extra in a timely manner after the initial allocation 2000 is the low limit of their entitlement

Yeah a clear question. However I guess this is the subject of a Police report. I guess poor old (possibly young) @JulieH is busy with a report on that one

Not sure BCFC have done much wrong. They have an end that holds 2400 they sold out the end! The stewards are not Hells Angels they are there to assist supporters generally and in emergency and make people aware of ground regulations. If they were there to fight every numpty in Somerset would be applying.. The Police are investigating what went wrong

17 hours ago, slartibartfast said:

If you saw HTV West news tonight you'd have seen why. Some brass hat being interviewed said that they had no intelligence (he should have stopped right there ) of any impending trouble. He could have asked me (and I know **** all about  it, not ITK ) !

Yep Part of the problem. This seemed pretty spontaneous and not pre arranged. Saying there was no intelligence seems pretty lame in view of the fixture the locality and importance...You do not have to a direct line to the valleys to know this could kick off.  

15 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Is it just me that still doubts that every one in that escort had their ticket scanned , at the rate they emerged in the Atyeo ?

How many ‘turnstiles’ at Away end ?

Those numbers are going to take a fair few mins to get through even with all ‘turnstiles’ open 

 

Another interesting one. Can you get a beer in the away end? If so that would explain why they all came in together. If they could, then perhaps as they were late the bar should have been ordered to close. The worrying thing is when people rush in like that the possibility of problems is huge...AS has been seen with catastrophic results 

2 hours ago, JulieH said:

Yes we did liaise with British rail and knew about the increase in ticket sales for the trains, hence why a special was arranged back 

there is a fans group that I liaise with every month, the first weds at 1930 in the supporters bar, I go to every meeting as do club officials, the next one is tomorrow.

with regards to next seasons fixturs there can be no decision made now , we don’t even know which league either team will be in so I cannot comment on that until fixtures are released , liaison done with club and supporter groups . 

It seems that some have been caught by surprise here. But we live and learn and we really do not get that many spontaneous issues, except Cardiff Millwall and Bristol Rovers. But this is all a good lesson to learn as there are some huge games coming up and if we are lucky they will get bigger next season. Thanks for coming on here and your continued work!...I hope the dog and coppers are back on duty!?

[RedM]

10 minutes ago, East End Old Boy said:

From my experience there are plenty living in Cardiff who don’t have a traditional Welsh accent, that’s now saved for the ones coming there from the valleys, or Swansea!

Exactly. How on earth do they cope with tourists and other visitors for concerts etc. I wasn’t trying to go into pubs where the locals were all dancing on tables, by the time we tried most from Bristol had gone back home but our train was booked for later so we stayed around the City centre. 

Just so different to Saturday, they seemed to be allowed in some pubs and they did what they liked in the escort which made them late which caused another problem. First sign of trouble they should have been turned round. No I don’t think innocent people were caught up in this, if they were part of that group they meant to be.

[Natchfever]

47 minutes ago, East End Old Boy said:

From my experience there are plenty living in Cardiff who don’t have a traditional Welsh accent, that’s now saved for the ones coming there from the valleys, or Swansea!

Quite so but this was bubble match day and I don't doubt that they adopted a similar approach to anyone who didn't have the requisite ID. Anyone showing the right address would have gotten in presumably.

I have no idea what accent RedM has but if it was Bristolian then that also probably helped inform the doormens decision.

[Natchfever]

34 minutes ago, RedM said:

Exactly. How on earth do they cope with tourists and other visitors for concerts etc. I wasn’t trying to go into pubs where the locals were all dancing on tables, by the time we tried most from Bristol had gone back home but our train was booked for later so we stayed around the City centre. 

Just so different to Saturday, they seemed to be allowed in some pubs and they did what they liked in the escort which made them late which caused another problem. First sign of trouble they should have been turned round. No I don’t think innocent people were caught up in this, if they were part of that group they meant to be.

See post just now RedM I think it was just because it was the bubble match against city.I have been in Cardiff city centre recently match day versus another team in the Prem and drank in pubs full of local "lads" without any interest from either them or doorstaff.

[EnderMB]

On the Nazi salute and the police response. It's 100% something that should be followed up by the club, and the police should respond. I would assume that others would've witnessed this, and there would be more than enough CCTV to identify the person involved and maybe even see them doing it. Also, the club pay for police presence on match day, so the club are literally paying for this to be taken seriously. I can't imagine the public fallout if the police were to ignore calls to investigate a nazi salute at a domestic football ground.

On the Swansea trouble, outside of some funny videos, it doesn't sound like anything terrible happened, so let's just hope the bans that were handed out will help chisel away at the number of bellends that kick off during a bog-standard football match.

[East End Old Boy]

12 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

Quite so but this was bubble match day and I don't doubt that they adopted a similar approach to anyone who didn't have the requisite ID. Anyone showing the right address would have gotten in presumably.

I have no idea what accent RedM has but if it was Bristolian then that also probably helped inform the doormens decision.

Easy to disguise a Bristol/West Country accent, just don’t use words with “L” or “R” in them! 

[RedM]

10 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

See post just now RedM I think it was just because it was the bubble match against city.I have been in Cardiff city centre recently match day versus another team in the Prem and drank in pubs full of local "lads" without any interest from either them or doorstaff.

I don’t know if I am misunderstanding you but the Cardiff match I am speaking of wasn’t a bubble match. It was the first time I had ever been to Cardiff, to either of their grounds and we made our own way there after getting our tickets from AG. No official coaches or service station ticket distribution.

 

[RedM]

16 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

Quite so but this was bubble match day and I don't doubt that they adopted a similar approach to anyone who didn't have the requisite ID. Anyone showing the right address would have gotten in presumably.

I have no idea what accent RedM has but if it was Bristolian then that also probably helped inform the doormens decision.

Yes Bristolian accent. Walked towards the door of the venue, ‘ID please’. I was a bit surprised as I am well old enough, so it can’t have been an age thing. I asked them why they wanted to ID me,  

‘ to see if you are Welsh/live in Wales was the reply’.

No I’m not, and no I don’t  I told them.  ‘

Well you can’t go in then’.

Why not? Is this to do with the football match earlier today?

’yes, no non Welsh people in our pubs today’

‘But the match finished hours ago, with no trouble at all’

‘Yes I know, but you still can’t come in, the decision was made before the match and we got to stick to it’

Ok, we will just go somewhere else then

‘They have all been instructed to say the same’

 

Did Bristol have similar in place hours after the match on Saturday, after there had been trouble too? Ive been to Cardiff loads of times, was there about 2 weeks ago, never been refused entry before at the times of other matches, football or rugby, concerts etc. Maybe they just didn’t like me!

 

 

 

 

[BobBobSuperBob]

6 minutes ago, RedM said:

Yes Bristolian accent. Walked towards the door of the venue, ‘ID please’. I was a bit surprised as I am well old enough, so it can’t have been an age thing. I asked them why they wanted to ID me,  

‘ to see if you are Welsh/live in Wales was the reply’.

No I’m not, and no I don’t  I told them.  ‘

Well you can’t go in then’.

Why not? Is this to do with the football match earlier today?

’yes, no non Welsh people in our pubs today’

‘But the match finished hours ago, with no trouble at all’

‘Yes I know, but you still can’t come in, the decision was made before the match and we got to stick to it’

Ok, we will just go somewhere else then

‘They have all been instructed to say the same’

 

Did Bristol have similar in place hours after the match on Saturday, after there had been trouble too? Ive been to Cardiff loads of times, was there about 2 weeks ago, never been refused entry before at the times of other matches, football or rugby, concerts etc. Maybe they just didn’t like me!

 

 

 

 

I’d say your behaviour outside didn’t help you M

CCTV anyone ?

 

[AppyDAZE]

15 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I’d say your behaviour outside didn’t help you M

CCTV anyone ?

 

"Oh my word"

as the late great Brian Moore would have said. 

Great left and right peg sign her up 

[Natchfever]

57 minutes ago, EnderMB said:

On the Nazi salute and the police response. It's 100% something that should be followed up by the club, and the police should respond. I would assume that others would've witnessed this, and there would be more than enough CCTV to identify the person involved and maybe even see them doing it. Also, the club pay for police presence on match day, so the club are literally paying for this to be taken seriously. I can't imagine the public fallout if the police were to ignore calls to investigate a nazi salute at a domestic football ground.

On the Swansea trouble, outside of some funny videos, it doesn't sound like anything terrible happened, so let's just hope the bans that were handed out will help chisel away at the number of bellends that kick off during a bog-standard football match.

Is a Nazi salute illegal in the UK if not accompanied by any anti semitic words? Genuine question by the way.

[Natchfever]

47 minutes ago, RedM said:

Yes Bristolian accent. Walked towards the door of the venue, ‘ID please’. I was a bit surprised as I am well old enough, so it can’t have been an age thing. I asked them why they wanted to ID me,  

‘ to see if you are Welsh/live in Wales was the reply’.

No I’m not, and no I don’t  I told them.  ‘

Well you can’t go in then’.

Why not? Is this to do with the football match earlier today?

’yes, no non Welsh people in our pubs today’

‘But the match finished hours ago, with no trouble at all’

‘Yes I know, but you still can’t come in, the decision was made before the match and we got to stick to it’

Ok, we will just go somewhere else then

‘They have all been instructed to say the same’

 

Did Bristol have similar in place hours after the match on Saturday, after there had been trouble too? Ive been to Cardiff loads of times, was there about 2 weeks ago, never been refused entry before at the times of other matches, football or rugby, concerts etc. Maybe they just didn’t like me!

 

 

 

 

Just the bubble day clearly and the difference is that a fair few Cardiff city centre pubs are also Cardiff City football pubs with the stadium being close to the centre and having hardly any nearby pubs unlike Bristol centre and the area around AG.

[phantom]

15 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

Is a Nazi salute illegal in the UK if not accompanied by any anti semitic words? Genuine question by the way.

Would be interesting to see how the Wayne Hennessey case develops, he was given additional time to repsond to the FA charge for the photo of him (believe it is the end of next week)

[Parkwaymom]

It has been commented that the mass late arrival of Swansea fans was similar to that of the Millwall fans. I understand from friends working at Temple meads on both days that the away fans were directed to drink local to the station and join the escort to the ground. To locals who know how long it takes to walk alone, sober and on empty pavements, to Ashton Gate from there, it was quite obvious that the police escort did not intend to get them to the ground in time for the start.  The delay also increased drinking time for most by about a pint. While I can understand that if you get them there with 20 mins to go there is plenty of opportunity for things to get lively, if as an away fan, I felt that the local constabulary had intentionally caused me to miss around a quarter of the game I would probably feel pretty disgruntled and inclined to be vocal and while that doesn't excuse pitch invasion or violence, the number of supporters that actually engaged in those activities was a very small number. 

I went to the Swansea away game and although we chose to have a quiet lunch and drink on a scenic route from the station to the ground, there was clearly a policy to direct the mass of away fans to a pub close to the station then get them to the ground at the last minute. The difference on that occasion was that free buses were provided to get the away fans into the fenced area behind the away end in time for kick off and from there back to the station at the end (we used them on the way back and felt much safer than we would have in a walking escort). While there is clearly a cost associated with this which I guess was borne by Swansea, I reckon when negotiating over an additional allocation of tickets, if city had been savvy they could have got Swansea to make a contribution toward providing a similar arrangement, which would have resulted it much less wound up supporters and less likelyhood of disorder and the reputational damage that goes with it.  

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

Is a Nazi salute illegal in the UK if not accompanied by any anti semitic words? Genuine question by the way.

Greater Manchester Police were investigating a Lyon fan for a hate crime when he did it back in September. Not sure how that progressed or if they found the individual in question, but shows at least one force won't put up with that kind of behaviour. 

[Natchfever]

5 minutes ago, 29AR said:

Greater Manchester Police were investigating a Lyon fan for a hate crime when he did it back in September. Not sure how that progressed or if they found the individual in question, but shows at least one force won't put up with that kind of behaviour. 

Interesting one isn't it and possibly quite easy to defend if it was simply a raised rigid arm with the palm facing downwards.

[phantom]

8 minutes ago, 29AR said:

Greater Manchester Police were investigating a Lyon fan for a hate crime when he did it back in September. Not sure how that progressed or if they found the individual in question, but shows at least one force won't put up with that kind of behaviour. 

Police say they are investigating an "abhorrent hate crime" after a Lyon fan appeared to give a Nazi salute during the team's Champions League win at Manchester City.

The French club have vowed to ban the supporter for life.

Chief Inspector Gareth Parkin, of Greater Manchester police, condemned the fan's gesture.

"This is absolutely abhorrent behaviour and it has no place in our community, and no place in sport," he said.

"We are committed to policing racism at football matches, and hate crimes of any sort will simply not be tolerated."

He said officers were working with their French colleagues to identify the offender.

Lyon beat Manchester City 2-1 at the Etihad Stadium in Wednesday's Champions League Group F opener.

The gesture was caught on video and shared on social media, where it attracted widespread condemnation.

The club responded by saying it had seen the video and was working to identify the supporter.

"As soon as he is identified, he will be excluded for life," Lyon said in a statement.

Police say they are also investigating reports of fighting between fans near City's Etihad Stadium.

Footage on social media showed around 20 supporters clashing in the street outside a shop.

Meanwhile, two people were arrested for affray before the match following a disturbance in the city's Northern Quarter at about 18:40 BST.

[PHILINFRANCE]

57 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

Is a Nazi salute illegal in the UK if not accompanied by any anti semitic words? Genuine question by the way.

 

30 minutes ago, 29AR said:

Greater Manchester Police were investigating a Lyon fan for a hate crime when he did it back in September. Not sure how that progressed or if they found the individual in question, but shows at least one force won't put up with that kind of behaviour. 

The Nazi salute, per se, is not illegal in France, although it does become so if accompanied by anti-Semitic speech and/or slogans, whereupon it is considered a hate crime.

Interestingly, we (France, but not me!) have a second salute over here; a sort of inverted Nazi salute known as a 'Quenelle', which is considered to be distinctly anti-Semitic. The salute was made popular, if that is the right term, by a French 'comedian', Dieudonné, but has also been used by several well-known figures, including, as some on here may remember, Nicolas Anelka a few years ago when he scored whilst playing for WBA.  

[Natchfever]

5 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

 

The Nazi salute, per se, is not illegal in France, although it does become so if accompanied by anti-Semitic speech and/or slogans, whereupon it is considered a hate crime.

Interestingly, we (France, but not me!) have a second salute over here; a sort of inverted Nazi salute known as a 'Quenelle', which is considered to be distinctly anti-Semitic. The salute was made popular, if that is the right term, by a French 'comedian', Dieudonné, but has also been used by several well-known figures, including, as some on here may remember, Nicolas Anelka a few years ago when he scored whilst playing for WBA.  

I remember that Phil.

Meant to be more anti Israel than Jewish as a whole ?

Either way, not well advised by Anelka was it.

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 hour ago, Parkwaymom said:

It has been commented that the mass late arrival of Swansea fans was similar to that of the Millwall fans. I understand from friends working at Temple meads on both days that the away fans were directed to drink local to the station and join the escort to the ground. To locals who know how long it takes to walk alone, sober and on empty pavements, to Ashton Gate from there, it was quite obvious that the police escort did not intend to get them to the ground in time for the start.  The delay also increased drinking time for most by about a pint. While I can understand that if you get them there with 20 mins to go there is plenty of opportunity for things to get lively, if as an away fan, I felt that the local constabulary had intentionally caused me to miss around a quarter of the game I would probably feel pretty disgruntled and inclined to be vocal and while that doesn't excuse pitch invasion or violence, the number of supporters that actually engaged in those activities was a very small number. 

I went to the Swansea away game and although we chose to have a quiet lunch and drink on a scenic route from the station to the ground, there was clearly a policy to direct the mass of away fans to a pub close to the station then get them to the ground at the last minute. The difference on that occasion was that free buses were provided to get the away fans into the fenced area behind the away end in time for kick off and from there back to the station at the end (we used them on the way back and felt much safer than we would have in a walking escort). While there is clearly a cost associated with this which I guess was borne by Swansea, I reckon when negotiating over an additional allocation of tickets, if city had been savvy they could have got Swansea to make a contribution toward providing a similar arrangement, which would have resulted it much less wound up supporters and less likelyhood of disorder and the reputational damage that goes with it.  

They were lucky 

They tried to stop us getting off he train in Plymouth 

[PHILINFRANCE]

10 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

I remember that Phil.

Meant to be more anti Israel than Jewish as a whole ?

Either way, not well advised by Anelka was it.

My understanding is that the 'Quenelle' was/is anti-Semitic, but certain well-known sportsmen and celebrities have claimed (when caught using it) that they thought it was anti-establishment.

[reddoh]

1 hour ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

My understanding is that the 'Quenelle' was/is anti-Semitic, but certain well-known sportsmen and celebrities have claimed (when caught using it) that they thought it was anti-establishment.

I have deliberately chosen not to joke a post response as I guess it may not be seem funny by many posters. 

[BigAl&Toby]

4 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I’d say your behaviour outside didn’t help you M

CCTV anyone ?

 

You are a disgrace

[BigAl&Toby]

11 hours ago, JulieH said:

I will try and answer but some have already been answered 

1) as previously stated before the game bcfc  allocate away tickets

2) this is now subject to an investigation however as prev stated the escort left in plenty of time , there were incidents in route which are subject to further investigation and I am not able to comment any  further I am afraid. 

3) again already answered this 

@JulieH thanks for replying. I’m still struggling to understand much of what happened and what you’ve said isn’t clarifying things for me.

I can’t believe that “the swarm” could have entered the ground in that way if they’d been subject to the same process we experienced. Bags searched, coats opened and checked and through a turnstile? And they then patiently waited for each other so they could all rush in together?

Police occasionally stand between S82 and home fans. Yet on Saturday there were none/so few between the baying hordes in the Atyeo and Dolman.

Presumably all those City fans in that corner with a fascination with their Welsh counterparts are season ticket holders or had tickets to sit in those seats? Must be easy to know who they were then....

If as I suspect “fans” from other parts of the Dolman rushed to that area then the question needs to be asked what measures were taken to stop that. I’m guessing none......

I still don’t understand - and you haven’t explained - why when there had been a reasonably significant incident during the game - those Swansea fans were released at the same time as City fans...

And another observation - I’ve seen video that shows Swansea fans being escorted over Princes Street bridge. I’m guessing that these might be fans who wanted to quench their thirst and might not necessarily have been those from TM but out of interest can you tell disclose the routes that each convoy took and the time they left - presumably the route from TM was the most obvious one by walking along the river?

[archie andrews]

17 minutes ago, BigAlToby&Liam said:

@JulieH thanks for replying. I’m still struggling to understand much of what happened and what you’ve said isn’t clarifying things for me.

I can’t believe that “the swarm” could have entered the ground in that way if they’d been subject to the same process we experienced. Bags searched, coats opened and checked and through a turnstile? And they then patiently waited for each other so they could all rush in together?

Police occasionally stand between S82 and home fans. Yet on Saturday there were none/so few between the baying hordes in the Atyeo and Dolman.

Presumably all those City fans in that corner with a fascination with their Welsh counterparts are season ticket holders or had tickets to sit in those seats? Must be easy to know who they were then....

If as I suspect “fans” from other parts of the Dolman rushed to that area then the question needs to be asked what measures were taken to stop that. I’m guessing none......

I still don’t understand - and you haven’t explained - why when there had been a reasonably significant incident during the game - those Swansea fans were released at the same time as City fans...

And another observation - I’ve seen video that shows Swansea fans being escorted over Princes Street bridge. I’m guessing that these might be fans who wanted to quench their thirst and might not necessarily have been those from TM but out of interest can you tell disclose the routes that each convoy took and the time they left - presumably the route from TM was the most obvious one by walking along the river?

let it go ffs......far worse has happened over the years

[BCFC11]

So why do the club have to pay these OTT policing costs if a) They are nowhere to be seen inside the stadium when it all kicked off, despite being warned/all over social media leading up to the game that trouble was likely? b) It’s the club’s decision whether or not to hold the away fans back or not? Surely they should be overruling whoever’s decision it was to let them leave at the same time.

[RedLionLad]

1 hour ago, BigAlToby&Liam said:

@JulieH thanks for replying. I’m still struggling to understand much of what happened and what you’ve said isn’t clarifying things for me.

I can’t believe that “the swarm” could have entered the ground in that way if they’d been subject to the same process we experienced. Bags searched, coats opened and checked and through a turnstile? And they then patiently waited for each other so they could all rush in together?

Police occasionally stand between S82 and home fans. Yet on Saturday there were none/so few between the baying hordes in the Atyeo and Dolman.

Presumably all those City fans in that corner with a fascination with their Welsh counterparts are season ticket holders or had tickets to sit in those seats? Must be easy to know who they were then....

If as I suspect “fans” from other parts of the Dolman rushed to that area then the question needs to be asked what measures were taken to stop that. I’m guessing none......

I still don’t understand - and you haven’t explained - why when there had been a reasonably significant incident during the game - those Swansea fans were released at the same time as City fans...

And another observation - I’ve seen video that shows Swansea fans being escorted over Princes Street bridge. I’m guessing that these might be fans who wanted to quench their thirst and might not necessarily have been those from TM but out of interest can you tell disclose the routes that each convoy took and the time they left - presumably the route from TM was the most obvious one by walking along the river?

From the Lansdown Stand you could see plenty of City fans in the Dolman head towards the corner once the 'trouble' started. Some went along the front walkway, some came down the steps whilst others used the concourse.