SomethingSomethingRubenstein Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 So would it be OK to bad mouth Jews, blacks, and Muslims in general? ← To me, this is exactly the point, even if you've made it unintentionally. Bad mouthing Jews, "Blacks" or Muslims is usually done in the context of very dangerous stereotypes. I'm not talking about hurt feelings here (unpleasant though I agree those can be). All of the groups you've named suffer violence or disadvantage (or both) in our society to some extent or other, and will continue to do so as long as we allow the stereotypes to persist. As an aside, both my parents were immigrants, one of them Irish like yourself, and we all grew up with a lot of name-calling. It hurts but it all that happens is it makes you tougher. There's other stuff (none of which I've ever suffered) well-known to the groups you mention, which is in another league altogether - being automatically associated with the terrorism of the day, having petrol poured through your letterbox, being the subject of "sus" laws, being scared to leave your house, getting a job interview and knowing you'll be turned down the minute they see you in person, the Stephen Lawrence murder, swastikas daubed on your door and your windows smashed in. Those are all racist - being called a sheep-shagger isn't, and presumably the diference is that no-one actually believes it. Do they? I agree that any form of name-calling is ignorant, but racism is a far more serious problem and the term really must not be used lightly. Being called a Welsh ###### is no worse than being called a Geordie *&*) or a Scouse g1t. I left the country (Britain, I call it) about 8 years ago now and one of the biggest differences I notice on my trips back are the attempts made by various politicians to turn the place into the Balkans. Hmmm ... make mine without! Roberts has looked a great asset to the club, by the way, on the occasions I've seen him and has been grossly misused in his time at City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bow_Legged_Chicken Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 The thing is a lot of you "pc"ers are too narrow minded. I'm not condoning racism in any way, if i was then I would go on with politicall rambling about the National front, BNP etc. Racism is wrong however there are different levels to it. Obviously the main ones physical and verbal. Verbal obviously being the least worst. Then I would say being called a ###### or #### for merely being black is far worse than being called welsh? I have many Welsh people in my new work place, I call them sheep shaggers, take the mick out of them for being Welsh and working in England, they take it on the chin have a laugh. Ok its all done for a laugh there and at football when they shout it, its purely for taking the (I tried to say a naughty word). All i am saying is if I am grown up enough at 17 and paying to go to football and hear this so called "racist" abuse towards the English and am able to think what a plonker, buy Roberts who is in his twenties, earning massive wages to play cannot then I just think he should learn to let things go over his head a bit and don't let these stupid people get at him because thats what their aim obviously is. AND Stockwood Red we are at cardiff a welsh copper gets sheep sheep sheep shagger shouted at him, and welsh scum. Which I witnessed first hand on many occasions in and out of Cardiff, have I ever seen an arrest? No We are at the same match and a black copper gets called a ###### ######. I am 100% sure that person would get arrested for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Casual Connoisseur Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 As a black football fan myself I find it ridiculous that this is even a topic. Football is a working class game with working class roots IMO football in general has become too PC & media friendly. At the end of the day they are only words and who listens to the words of immature people with narrow minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_real_city Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 How is it that just because a Welsh player might not be playing well, you inflict anti-Welsh abuse on him, but at Cardiff, if an English player isn't performing we don't inflict anti-English abuse. Remember, Christian Roberts and Earnshaw when they were at Cardiff were both tipped for big things. Just because Roberts hasn't become the success Earnshaw is at the moment isn't entirely the players fault, i think the blame belongs with the club too. I'm a Cardiff fan, i know the damage Roberts can do. I was there in 2002/03 at Ninian and at Ashton where he scored goals against us. I was also there when he scored goals FOR us. It's your support he needs. I think he knows by know that he's Welsh, he doesn't have to be reminded with abuse from his own fans. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WillsbridgeRed Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 Wolf you have a refreshing view point, however it's not the everyday black person like that makes such a fuss about pc, but the old guard of Race activists, who after doing so much good are just nit picking and doing a bad job of representing the people that they are supposed to be helping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBCFCUK Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 yeh very true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Casual Connoisseur Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 Will your SUPPORTERS be so understanding when Banjo playing Earnshaw becomes a player for another team. I expect that for example if Earnshaw signs for a bigger team and you draw them in the cup he scores a couple and knocks you out there will be no shouts of you black whatever. I live and work in Cardiff and I have to say out of all the places I have lived I have never come across so many anti English and racist people in my life. Obviously not everyone in cardiff is racist and not everyone at Ashton Gate slags off the Welsh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercury Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 Let's put things in perspective here,Calling Roberts a Welsh #######, is meant in the same way as Caskey was called a fat ####### and murray being called a scottish #########, or someone calling someone with red hair a ginger ######, they are just words. They are not racist attacks, PC is taking over the world, next thing you know, it will be illegal to call someone a cockney w######. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WillsbridgeRed Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 The thing is, would you want to risk a liable case mercury? Your point is common sense and the feeling of 99% of the people in the coutnry (of voting age) -however common sense isn't backed byt he law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercury Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 The thing is, would you want to risk a liable case mercury? Your point is common sense and the feeling of 99% of the people in the coutnry (of voting age) -however common sense isn't backed byt he law Point taken, the thing is, the more pc you make society, the more people tend to get ###### off with it, undoing all the good work that has been done in the past. for instance, when I was at school, the teacher used to write on the black board, because it was black. Now it has to be called a chalk board, because it could be deemed offensive to call it a black board. Nowadays, some schools use dry markers on a white board, why is it allowed to be called a white board? I have lots of black friends, thay all agree that sometimes, you can over protect to the the extreme, and they feel insulted. I don't know all the answers, but somewhere along the line, I thing PC has reached it limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WillsbridgeRed Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 Pc's gone past the limit - It's on a victory lap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newboy Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 Do you really believe that? Is the 'welsh' not just the obvious way of singling him out? The '#####' is the insult. Am i racist if i say "Charlotte Church, welsh superstar" ? No, she probably plays on it. Am i racist if i say "Charlotte Church, welsh ####" ? No, but i am being offensive and derogatory and bang out of order. Are you offended by being sometimes labelled Asian? I very much doubt it. If i couple the asain with ######, then fair enough spark me out because i'll probably deserve it, but i certainly wouldn't call it racist. There is nothing to be ashamed about if your welsh and therefor being called welsh is not the problem, nor racist. Calling him a ######, #### etc on the other hand is. ← That's overly simplistic which pretty much sums up 40% of the responses on this topic. It's all to do with context. To say 'Christian Roberts is Welsh' is a statement of fact. To say 'Christian Roberts is a Welsh bar-steward' is racist. You're emphasising the Welshness as if it's an insult. I find it hard to believe that people can't follow that critical distinction. You're discriminating by Country which is plainly wrong. I accept that the Welsh aren't a seperate race, but it's discrimination which every way you cut it. I appreciate that this world has seemingly gone PC mad, but it's simply not right to use someone's background to pre-judge. A twot is a twot regardless of background, religion, sex or color. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TA8 RED Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 No it's a statement. If you call him something BECAUSE he's Welsh then THAT's racist ← I completely agree with WillsbridgeRed,I am not a great fan of Christian,but I do know he can play some great football,but to me he doesn't do it often enough,I am not a racist.But I have been known to make derogatory comment's relating to his root's but not in a racially way.I have never said it because he is welsh,I said it because he had just missed a sitter or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Swiss Baloney Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 Ha ha ha ha ha, just thought I would move this rubbish to the top of the forum again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Casual Connoisseur Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 Someone get rid of this thread> It is going round and round etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WillsbridgeRed Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 Abit like the peanut sized organ in Swiss Baloneys head then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveBCFC Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 Grow up haven't you heard the saying "sticks and stones can break my bones but names can NEVER hurt me" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WillsbridgeRed Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 Havn't you heard the saying "Speak when spoken to" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Swiss Baloney Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Swiss Baloney Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 Abit like the peanut sized organ in Swiss Baloneys head then. ← Oh and thats just a personal insult. Note how I refer to the generic you muppets so you can choose if it's applicable to you or not See if you think my comments apply to you be offended if you dont then feel sorry for those who you think they do P.S. What's a peanut WillsbridgeRed is that some kind of organ I'm not aware of ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 One bloke was stood next to me against Yeovil and was going on about Roberts all game, even after he scored. Not only was he talking about Roberts, but the 'Welsh' in general. The problem was that people around were laughing at him, which probably meant that he felt that his views were spot on. Well, if you're reading this, the bald duncan goodhew(sp?) look-a-like with the 1970's city retro shirt, you're a very sad man! Have you not realised by now that some of our supporters might be welsh and that some of us might like Roberts. You're asking for trouble and I hope that one day you get taught a lesson. Stewards and other fellow supporters should play apart when it comes to these mindless idiots and get them evicted from the ground. I find it just as disturbing to hear abuse about the Welsh than about a black man. So, the next time you hear someone in the crowd abuse the welsh or for that matter, make any racist comment then speak to a nearby steward or if you feel confident yourself tell them to shut the (I tried to say a naughty word) up! Lets get behind the team and in particular the players that have in recent seasons been receiving unnecessary abuse from us, so called supporters! Heres for a successful season in 2004/05! ← Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sbl900 Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 WHAT A SHAME........END OF FREE SPEECH THEN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Skin Posted July 28, 2004 Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 Those are all racist - being called a sheep-shagger isn't, and presumably the diference is that no-one actually believes it. Do they? I agree that any form of name-calling is ignorant, but racism is a far more serious problem and the term really must not be used lightly. Being called a Welsh ###### is no worse than being called a Geordie *&*) or a Scouse g1t. I left the country (Britain, I call it) about 8 years ago now and one of the biggest differences I notice on my trips back are the attempts made by various politicians to turn the place into the Balkans. Hmmm ... make mine without! Roberts has looked a great asset to the club, by the way, on the occasions I've seen him and has been grossly misused in his time at City. ← You make some fair points. I was replying to WillbridgeRed who thought general comments against nationalities were OK, but one specific to individual were not. The opposite is true for me. And personal ones are only allowed if you know them well enough. I did say that most of the banter is just that, but just pointing out it what can start as banter can lead on to other stuff. And as far following an insult at Robbo with "you welsh ####" well perhaps that isn't racist but it is an attempt to layer on some sort of additional contempt. Put it this way, the next time Matt Hill's distribution goes slightly awray, I still won't be adding "you Bristolian ####" on the end. I'm not sure everyone at AG will not be as enlightened as some posters on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Swiss Baloney Posted July 28, 2004 Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 And as far following an insult at Robbo with "you welsh ####" well perhaps that isn't racist but it is an attempt to layer on some sort of additional contempt. Put it this way, the next time Matt Hill's distribution goes slightly awray, I still won't be adding "you Bristolian ####" on the end. I'm not sure everyone at AG will not be as enlightened as some posters on here. ← Your right it's an abusive statement, and the prefix of welsh, bristolian is just a way of adding more contempt. To say that it is racist devalues or detracts from what is racist. The word racist is used to describe so many things today by the PC brigade that it actualy does harm. For example if people think of racism as being everything from Welsh bashing to xeniphobic tendencies then it actually detracts from the point. Racist becomes a very watered down and emotive word, where as it should be a word that ivokes disgust and horror. For example if I were to punch a guy in the face because he was black you can't put that in that same catagory as calling someone a sheep shagger other wise it makes the prior less horrific. http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?act=ST&f=9&t=20228 There's no middle ground for the PC bunch so you have to choose or obstain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newboy Posted July 28, 2004 Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?act=ST&f=9&t=20228 There's no middle ground for the PC bunch so you have to choose or obstain ← I suppose you'd label me as one of the PC bunch but I'd never have a problem with blackboard or other tosh. It's all a matter of degree and a slippery slide. As soon as verbal abuse becomes acceptable, it's not a long or inconceivable step into physical abuse becoming perhaps not condoned but conveniently overlooked. Some people are strong enough to take it on the chin, but since when has it been ok to abuse someone for something they have no control over (skin colour/origin etc)? Put it this way. If someone you didn't know came up to you and said with some venom 'you english #####' - wouldn't you be just a bit disturbed? Now imagine if that happened to you x times a week. Being a professional sportsman, I'm sure CR is used to various forms of abuse. But if you were to give all, play excellent football and then still get abuse over where your parents gave birth to you it would be.... ...well....stupid. Which perhaps best describes what it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Swiss Baloney Posted July 28, 2004 Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 I suppose you'd label me as one of the PC bunch but I'd never have a problem with blackboard or other tosh. It's all a matter of degree and a slippery slide. As soon as verbal abuse becomes acceptable, it's not a long or inconceivable step into physical abuse becoming perhaps not condoned but conveniently overlooked. Some people are strong enough to take it on the chin, but since when has it been ok to abuse someone for something they have no control over (skin colour/origin etc)? Put it this way. If someone you didn't know came up to you and said with some venom 'you english #####' - wouldn't you be just a bit disturbed? Now imagine if that happened to you x times a week. Being a professional sportsman, I'm sure CR is used to various forms of abuse. But if you were to give all, play excellent football and then still get abuse over where your parents gave birth to you it would be.... ...well....stupid. Which perhaps best describes what it is... ← I dont dissagree with you that it's abusive and wrong. And if someone came up to me and called me and English ###### so be it :/ I would be disturbed but it's not racist!! It's nationalist!!! get it? If your English, your from a nation that everyone loves to hate, sorry to say it but the Welsh, Irish, Scots will all support France in an England/France world cup final than England because they dont like you! So is that racist or nationalist? I will be intrested to see how the Welsh behave when we play then in the world cup qualifiers in October. Will there be uproar after that game about racist abuse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Swiss Baloney Posted July 28, 2004 Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 My little disugst experiment is showing dividends apart from those who want to sit on the PC fence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atyeoant Posted July 28, 2004 Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 It says alot about race relations in Britain that very few of you understand what a racist or racism actually is. RACISM by its very definition is prejudice or hatred on the grounds of race. The Welsh are not a race in their own right and at the most anti-Welsh sentiments or actions are xenophobic. I personally believe that the vast majority of anti-Welsh comments are tongue in cheek. I admit, it can be taken too far, but to compare it with racially abusing a black person is ludicrous. On the Roberts issue, I think many people dislike him because he supports Cardiff, not simply because he is Welsh. BS4 ← http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?act=Post&C...063&qpid=161944 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atyeoant Posted July 28, 2004 Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 It says alot about race relations in Britain that very few of you understand what a racist or racism actually is. RACISM by its very definition is prejudice or hatred on the grounds of race. The Welsh are not a race in their own right and at the most anti-Welsh sentiments or actions are xenophobic. I personally believe that the vast majority of anti-Welsh comments are tongue in cheek. I admit, it can be taken too far, but to compare it with racially abusing a black person is ludicrous. On the Roberts issue, I think many people dislike him because he supports Cardiff, not simply because he is Welsh. BS4 ← You're right the Welsh aren't a race in their own right, the same as Asians (as defined in this country - people originating from the Indian sub continent) are not a race in their own right. They're Caucasians the very same race as the indigenous people of Europe, which includes Great Britain. As far Roberts is concerned as long as he plays for Bristol City then he gets my support, no player ever played better because so called supporters slag him with any kind of negative chants! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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