Players&coach

[RedM]

5 minutes ago, Redmycolour said:

Ok I take all your comments, but still don't think the players want it enough, I heard one comment on Saturday, the players are ready for there holidays, 

And what did YOU think when YOU watched, do YOU think Saturday was an end of season kick about from our players? 

[And Its Smith]

3 minutes ago, RedM said:

And what did YOU think when YOU watched, do YOU think Saturday was an end of season kick about from our players? 

Did he even watch?

[JamesBCFC]

3 minutes ago, RedM said:

Exactly. I knew there would be one that someone more switched on than me would name.

He only came to mind as he's just achieved it, and barring him moving to another club or being bizarrely sacked he looks to achieve it.

There must be others just based on the sheer number of managers.

[maxjak]

3 minutes ago, Redmycolour said:

Theres NO need to be so insulting is there, 

Lunatic - Noun.  A person whose actions and manner are marked by extreme eccentricity or recklessness.  I stand by my definition.

[Roger Red Hat]

16 minutes ago, Redmycolour said:

I heard one comment on Saturday, the players are ready for there holidays, 

Those voices in your head talking to you again?

[Davefevs]

30 minutes ago, Redmycolour said:

So someone tell me, Who in that squad are PL standard players, 

If you compare our best 6-8 players to players at clubs in the bottom 5 or 6, then most are. If you wanna compare to top 5 or 6 clubs, then none. 

[JamesBCFC]

48 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

If the players are as unprofessional as you make out, surely they’d push for promotion, double their salary, and then refuse to be moved on when the better players inevitably come in. 

Winston Bogarde comes to mind. (Though as he honoured his contract to a letter it could be said he was very professional, just lacked desire to actually play when he had an easy payday in his hands)

[Davefevs]

19 minutes ago, Redmycolour said:

Ok I take all your comments, but still don't think the players want it enough, I heard one comment on Saturday, the players are ready for there holidays, 

One comment?  From whom?

I suspect they are ready for their holidays. 8-10 months are hard work takes its toll.  Doesn’t mean they’ve stopped trying. 

[Coppello]

55 minutes ago, Redmycolour said:

I'm going to say it, you will put me down but I don't care, City do not want play-off WHY,

1,Johnson is not (REPEAT) not a PL coach,

2, half the players don't want it, because they know they'll be out come the end of the season, meaning no club to play for, 

3,Landsdowns don't want the expense of paying top wages for top players, 

4,as my understanding is, the players who contracts don't expire yet, and we get into PL, there wages double, 

5,so as I see it were just a Championship club with no ambition of going up with LJ a the reilm, 

I know I'm going to get blasted for this comment but I'm fed up with every season getting into play-off position the a few weeks left and we Blow it, Now I'm ready to get blasted, BUT ITS TRUE, 

1. Farke and Wilder have not managed in the Premier League but have gained promotion this season. What's the difference between them and Johnson? Farke finished 14th last season and Wilder was a couple places above LJ. Sadly, Steve Lansdown doesn't want your proven, managers who have operated in the Premier League such as Phil Brown, Paul Jewell or Steve McLaren which you desire. 

2. That is not true, every player wants to test themselves at the highest level as it will be many of their childhood ambitions and is the most financially rewarding league in the world. We will not sell every player in the squad if we get promoted, we will bring in reinforcements and every player will have the opportunity to fight for their place. 

3. Spend 10 minutes reading in the financial benefits of getting promoted in terms of TV money, then let me know if you still agree with your statement. 

4. This contradicts point 2 above - surely the players would want it if their wages double. Nonetheless, there isn't a single player whose wages double on promotion. The clause is commonly between 15% and 25%. 

5. We've made progress year-on-year through sustainable growth. Surely you can see this?  

[Major Isewater]

39 minutes ago, The Horse With No Name said:

Webster, Kalas, De Silva maybe Brownhill

Add Mäenpää, Kelly , Palmer, Hunt, Elliason, Weimann.

[Bristol Rob]

THEIR 

[JamesBCFC]

4 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

THEIR 

Their they're, no need to be upset.

[MarcusX]

1 hour ago, Redmycolour said:

I'm going to say it, you will put me down but I don't care, City do not want play-off WHY,

1,Johnson is not (REPEAT) not a PL coach,

2, half the players don't want it, because they know they'll be out come the end of the season, meaning no club to play for, 

3,Landsdowns don't want the expense of paying top wages for top players, 

4,as my understanding is, the players who contracts don't expire yet, and we get into PL, there wages double, 

5,so as I see it were just a Championship club with no ambition of going up with LJ a the reilm, 

I know I'm going to get blasted for this comment but I'm fed up with every season getting into play-off position the a few weeks left and we Blow it, Now I'm ready to get blasted, BUT ITS TRUE, 

 

 

 

 

1. When Chris Wilder's name was banded about to replace LJ in 2017 he was "not a Championship coach", looks to have done alright though

2. I absolutely have not seen that this season. You can say many things about the lack of quality at crucial moments Saturday, but there wasn't anyone on who "didnt want it"

3. There is simply nothing to back this up

4. So why would those players not want it? Double their wages and potentially get replaced so getting paid to sit on the bench? Remember if they are under contract they wont go anywhere unless they chose to.

5. We definitely have ambition, we just lack that extra bit of quality that other teams around us have. We have Pack instead of a Bannan/Grealish/Huddlestone/Phillips/Dack etc and on top of that he's been flogged to death this season playing every game. Then there is our strike force that has struggled with goals compared to teams around us - but we cant go out and buy players like Gayle/Tammy/Che Adams we have to find and develop them if we want to be self sufficient.

We aren't going to go out and spend millions "buying" this league and our fans need to come to terms with that. It's not a sensible approach, it doesn't guarantee any kind of success and it would only end badly. That said, I'm disappointed we didn't spend SOME money on a striker in January but realistically I don't know who we could have brought in that would want to come here over other offers and would have hit the ground running.

[RedM]

26 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Did he even watch?

This is what I’m trying to establish 

[EnderMB]

Quote

1,Johnson is not (REPEAT) not a PL coach,

We have no idea how he'd adapt to the Premier League. What I will say is that he has a desire to play an entertaining brand of football, and if he can maintain that in the Premier League and not compromise on how Bristol City should play, I could see us surviving.

Quote

2, half the players don't want it, because they know they'll be out come the end of the season, meaning no club to play for, 

I think Fulham have shown that spunking 9 figures on a total team unheaval doesn't result in success. If we were to go up, I think we'd retain the spine of a successful team, but improve on our weaker points with Premier League talent. Thankfully, there seems to be plenty of players wanting to play for bottom-table Premier League teams with both money and a manager willing to play a good brand of football.

Either way, I can't see many players worrying. If anything, promotion would establish them as Championship-level players, whereas some of our fringe players would probably end up in League 1. Besides, considering how often Lansdown and Ashton talk about wanting to be in the Premier League, I'm willing to bet most of our players have hefty bonuses that are paid out the second we gain promotion. From that point onwards, I doubt they'd care where they go, because they've already been paid.

Quote

3,Landsdowns don't want the expense of paying top wages for top players, 

It's a bit tinfoil-hat, but I do agree with you there. I think there's a legitimate worry from Lansdown and Ashton that promotion too early would result in a Premier League season where we get dicked around, spat back down to the Championship, and struggle again. Lansdown wants a slow progression where we build up, and retain the infrastructure to ensure we don't suffer another relegation or end up struggling after a bad season.

Lansdown, like all fans, wants us in the Premier League, but like any businessman he'd rather bootstrap and see gradual success over the risk of injecting immediate money. I think Lansdown might surprise us, though, if we do achieve promotion. Once we're up, I could see him giving LJ a blank chequebook to get the players he needs to stay up, and/or backing a top-quality coach to take over in January if we struggle and backing them.

Quote

5,so as I see it were just a Championship club with no ambition of going up with LJ a the reilm, 

The obvious response to this is with another question - if we sack LJ, who do we hire to replace him?

LJ is in this position because he's the ideal coach for Lansdown to implement his vision. If LJ is sacked, the approach will not change, and we'll simply end up with another warm body that plays a similar brand of football, with the same transfer strategy,

From our perspective, the only thing that will change is the coaching structure, and to be fair I think LJ has shown in the last two seasons that he is a solid coach at this level. Over time, he's plugged holes in our team, and he's built a larger squad to help deal with our standard drop-off around January onwards. It's iterative, which is exactly what Lansdown wants.

[cidered abroad]

44 minutes ago, Redmycolour said:

Ok I take all your comments, but still don't think the players want it enough, I heard one comment on Saturday, the players are ready for THEIR holidays, 

 

[JamesBCFC]

1 hour ago, Red Army 75 said:

I wondered what SL was doing sliding on his knees celebrating after we lost Saturday. Singing we have ****** it up we have ****** it up

Ah, but you missed the players who joined in with him, knowing they've missed out on a hefty wage rise and/or promotion bonus.

I expect they are absolutely delighted.

[maxjak]

48 minutes ago, Coppello said:

1. Farke and Wilder have not managed in the Premier League but have gained promotion this season. What's the difference between them and Johnson? Farke finished 14th last season and Wilder was a couple places above LJ. Sadly, Steve Lansdown doesn't want your proven, managers who have operated in the Premier League such as Phil Brown, Paul Jewell or Steve McLaren which you desire. 

2. That is not true, every player wants to test themselves at the highest level as it will be many of their childhood ambitions and is the most financially rewarding league in the world. We will not sell every player in the squad if we get promoted, we will bring in reinforcements and every player will have the opportunity to fight for their place. 

3. Spend 10 minutes reading in the financial benefits of getting promoted in terms of TV money, then let me know if you still agree with your statement. 

4. This contradicts point 2 above - surely the players would want it if their wages double. Nonetheless, there isn't a single player whose wages double on promotion. The clause is commonly between 15% and 25%. 

5. We've made progress year-on-year through sustainable growth. Surely you can see this?  

In response to Point 1...............Personally i'm delighted that Lansdown doesn't want an ageing [though i guess were all ageing!!] Ex Premiership manager, a la Brown, Mclaren etc. The same old faces do the rounds, with occasional success, and then move on with a nice big pay off.  It's refreshing that young and lower league managers like Farke, Wilder and LJ are being given the chance to build success and introduce new ideas over a period of time.  I really don't find Lansdowns recruitment policy at all sad

[JBFC II]

1 hour ago, Redmycolour said:

Ok I take all your comments, but still don't think the players want it enough, I heard one comment on Saturday, the players are ready for there holidays, 

For anyone of any profession, you aim to be as successful as you can be in your field. 

Footballers are no different. Kids dreamsof playing Premier league football when they are older at Old Trafford, Anfield etc and our players would have been no different. 

To say that they don't want that is so laughable it's unreal....

[Coppello]

9 minutes ago, maxjak said:

In response to Point 1...............Personally i'm delighted that Lansdown doesn't want an ageing [though i guess were all ageing!!] Ex Premiership manager, a la Brown, Mclaren etc. The same old faces do the rounds, with occasional success, and then move on with a nice big pay off.  It's refreshing that young and lower league managers like Farke, Wilder and LJ are being given the chance to build success and introduce new ideas over a period of time.  I really don't find Lansdowns recruitment policy at all sad

I'm delighted too mate, it was posted in jest. I'd rather have Johnson than dozens of 'proven' managers. I find it amazing how other fans measure progress and anything other than 46 league wins in a season is a failure. 

[Clutton Caveman]

I do not buy into the " we don't want it" argument BUT

Would you say that if a neutral was watching this game, he would think that both sides wanted the win equally?

If you compare our intensity with that shown against Man Utd or Man City on Saturday we were flat.

We had a huge crowd but I felt the teams lack of intensity or better said blood and guts commitment gave the crowd nothing to shout about and soon everyone was quiet.

For me it just did not feel like a must win game. If you compare this with games in the past when we were in relegation trouble again the team and the crowd were flat.

Only for the 5 mins after the red card did we show some real spirit. Imagine what could have been if we had shown this from the start.

Our league position this year is beyond most fans wildest dreams, this should not be forgotten and we certainly have a platform to build on.

I wonder if our lack of real leaders in the team is due to the personality of LJ. Can he stand to have a player who is a fans favourite, a leader on the pitch and in the dressing room and a player that on some days may actually want to discuss his decisions?

Do we perhaps have the same problem with the coaching staff?

I truly hope that in the close season we :

a) Sign one or 2 players that are the finished article not a prospect. No more wingers unless they can actually beat a full back.

b) Sell some of the "prospects" that have not quite made it, so that they can get regular football and we sign perhaps 1 good player in place of 2 players like Taylor and  Watkins

c) Make sure that anyone we sign is over 6 foot (no more midgets like Walsh please) 

Finally find a way to get Fam playing like he did when he first arrived with real pace and desire.

[ChippenhamRed]

8 minutes ago, Clutton Caveman said:

I do not buy into the " we don't want it" argument BUT

Would you say that if a neutral was watching this game, he would think that both sides wanted the win equally?

If you compare our intensity with that shown against Man Utd or Man City on Saturday we were flat.

We had a huge crowd but I felt the teams lack of intensity or better said blood and guts commitment gave the crowd nothing to shout about and soon everyone was quiet.

For me it just did not feel like a must win game. If you compare this with games in the past when we were in relegation trouble again the team and the crowd were flat.

Only for the 5 mins after the red card did we show some real spirit. Imagine what could have been if we had shown this from the start.

Our league position this year is beyond most fans wildest dreams, this should not be forgotten and we certainly have a platform to build on.

I wonder if our lack of real leaders in the team is due to the personality of LJ. Can he stand to have a player who is a fans favourite, a leader on the pitch and in the dressing room and a player that on some days may actually want to discuss his decisions?

Do we perhaps have the same problem with the coaching staff?

I truly hope that in the close season we :

a) Sign one or 2 players that are the finished article not a prospect. No more wingers unless they can actually beat a full back.

b) Sell some of the "prospects" that have not quite made it, so that they can get regular football and we sign perhaps 1 good player in place of 2 players like Taylor and  Watkins

c) Make sure that anyone we sign is over 6 foot (no more midgets like Walsh please) 

Finally find a way to get Fam playing like he did when he first arrived with real pace and desire.

Are you seriously saying that City lacked desire and intensity on Saturday?

I must have imagined the dominance in possession, the determination to move forward at every opportunity, the numerous attempts at goal, Paterson beating his man repeatedly, the intense period of pressure just before half time when we were knocking on the door, the equally intense period immediately after half time where we had two goalmouth scrambles in quick succession, the clearance off the line, the shot off the bar, Wiemann's effort tipped over the bar, the numerous corners.

Even the goals we conceded - a fortunate deflection, and a breakaway goal with City understandably committing risky numbers forward in pursuit of a desperately-needed equaliser.

I have rarely seen a game played with more of a "must win" attitude.

Crowd weren't flat, either.

I seriously don't know what game you were watching.

 

[Rudolf Hucker]

27 minutes ago, Coppello said:

I'm delighted too mate, it was posted in jest. I'd rather have Johnson than dozens of 'proven' managers. I find it amazing how other fans measure progress and anything other than 46 league wins in a season is a failure. 

Only 46 league wins? What about the cups? Johnson out.

[JamesBCFC]

38 minutes ago, Clutton Caveman said:

I do not buy into the " we don't want it" argument BUT

Would you say that if a neutral was watching this game, he would think that both sides wanted the win equally?

If you compare our intensity with that shown against Man Utd or Man City on Saturday we were flat.

We had a huge crowd but I felt the teams lack of intensity or better said blood and guts commitment gave the crowd nothing to shout about and soon everyone was quiet.

For me it just did not feel like a must win game. If you compare this with games in the past when we were in relegation trouble again the team and the crowd were flat.

Only for the 5 mins after the red card did we show some real spirit. Imagine what could have been if we had shown this from the start.

Our league position this year is beyond most fans wildest dreams, this should not be forgotten and we certainly have a platform to build on.

I wonder if our lack of real leaders in the team is due to the personality of LJ. Can he stand to have a player who is a fans favourite, a leader on the pitch and in the dressing room and a player that on some days may actually want to discuss his decisions?

Do we perhaps have the same problem with the coaching staff?

I truly hope that in the close season we :

a) Sign one or 2 players that are the finished article not a prospect. No more wingers unless they can actually beat a full back.

b) Sell some of the "prospects" that have not quite made it, so that they can get regular football and we sign perhaps 1 good player in place of 2 players like Taylor and  Watkins

c) Make sure that anyone we sign is over 6 foot (no more midgets like Walsh please) 

Finally find a way to get Fam playing like he did when he first arrived with real pace and desire.

Are you aware that we were the team wearing red on Saturday?

We battered 'em.

Derby were superior in one element of the game and only one, it's our misfortune that it was the most important one.

[italian dave]

3 hours ago, Redmycolour said:

I'm going to say it, you will put me down but I don't care, City do not want play-off WHY,

1,Johnson is not (REPEAT) not a PL coach,

2, half the players don't want it, because they know they'll be out come the end of the season, meaning no club to play for, 

3,Landsdowns don't want the expense of paying top wages for top players, 

4,as my understanding is, the players who contracts don't expire yet, and we get into PL, there wages double, 

5,so as I see it were just a Championship club with no ambition of going up with LJ a the reilm, 

I know I'm going to get blasted for this comment but I'm fed up with every season getting into play-off position the a few weeks left and we Blow it, Now I'm ready to get blasted, BUT ITS TRUE, 

 

 

 

 

Never mind the players, coach giving up on promotion, looks like you have too. Still six points to play for.....

[shelts]

Some awkward points made  

[AshtonGreat]

7 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

Are you aware that we were the team wearing red on Saturday?

We battered 'em.

Derby were superior in one element of the game and only one, it's our misfortune that it was the most important one.

They defended better than us too

[JamesBCFC]

10 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

They defended better than us too

They didn't at all.

They conceded more chances and higher quality ones, against a team with a player less.

[Simon79]

It’s a game of opinions, but bloody hell, there are some strange ones on OTIB! COYR 

[Lrrr]

23 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

They defended better than us too

If they had defended better then us they wouldn't have faced so many shots, we got done by a deflection and a break away counter when we were chucking players forward looking for a goal with 10 men, otherwise Derby had maybe 1 or 2 shots.