Leave it out?..........Kick it Out

[maxjak]

Don't get me wrong?..........."Kick it Out" are an excellent organisation, who do a lot of outstanding work.   But come on guy's, wanting the FA to punish Bernardo Silva for having a laugh and a joke with his best mate Benjamin Mendy, is taking PC just too far IMHO.  For example, if a black player compared his white team- mate to Popeye on a tweet, nothing would be heard of it...........but `Kick it Out" are just trying to  find problems where they don't even begin to exist, please utilise yout time more constructively, by dealing with the real worrying prejudice's that are taking place, and try to retain a sense of humour if you can, as I believe your reaction to this Tweet between two buddies reflects poorly upon you?  And by drawing attention to it,  begins to undermine your credibility.

[And Its Smith]

43 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Don't get me wrong?..........."Kick it Out" are an excellent organisation, who do a lot of outstanding work.   But come on guy's, wanting the FA to punish Bernardo Silva for having a laugh and a joke with his best mate Benjamin Mendy, is taking PC just too far IMHO.  For example, if a black player compared his white team- mate to Popeye on a tweet, nothing would be heard of it...........but `Kick it Out" are just trying to  find problems where they don't even begin to exist, please utilise yout time more constructively, by dealing with the real worrying prejudice's that are taking place, and try to retain a sense of humour if you can, as I believe your reaction to this Tweet between two buddies reflects poorly upon you?  And by drawing attention to it,  begins to undermine your credibility.

Should have kept it private. If you tell a racist joke to a black friend privately then that’s your business. If you shout a racist joke to your friend in the middle of a huge crowd then it’s not. 

Whether Mendy was okay with it or not is totally irrelevant 

Tin hat on as I know I’m in the minority here

[KingLear]

Totally agree. It should all come down to whether Mendy was offended by it. The answer to that is a categorical no. 

But you can guarantee someone, somewhere would have been offended by it, which is probably why they feel obliged to act.

I'm sure he's learnt from this to maybe keep these sort of things in a private message/group chat or whatever, rather than on a public social media platform where everyone always gets so horrified on other people's behalf, and that should be the end of the matter IMO.

 

[Selred]

What if a kid in the playground calls another kid Conguito, due to the tweet. That kid may not want to be called Conguito and treated different due to their colour.

They can then say "well Silva said it to Mendy", and how can you explain it's still wrong.

[And Its Smith]

when you see people on twitter comparing it to Sterling calling Zinchenko the milky bar kid you know that they are so far away from seeing why it is racist there seems little point in trying to explain. 

Comparing a black person to a black cartoon character is not the same as comparing a white person to a white carton character. 

[Keep the Faith]

There was a good piece in The Times today which discussed the racist origins of that particular logo from the 1960s. I appreciate that is a long time ago but people have long memories and certainly there could be many people out there offended by comparing someone to that logo. There is a very recent and very dark colonial past which is heavily associated with that logo. White people might not think about historical global abuse of black people whenever something like this comes up but that's not to say it won't cause great offence to people to whom it is still a very difficult subject. 

As said above why do this sort of thing in public on twitter. Whether anyone likes it or not putting that sort of thing to a wide audience as a high profile individual immediately means your comments are treated differently to a couple of people talking to each other in private.

Kids idolise footballers and these sorts of comments are not helpful when it comes to raising a new generation who are completely open minded with regards to race and do not in any way stereotype people due to or make generalisations about people because of their race or for that matter any aspect of their personality which they would not like to be held against them in any way.

[underhanded]

I listened to an interview with B.Silva recently (BBC?) and he seemed like a humble, intelligent and generally nice guy, and someone who is hugely popular in the Man City dressing room. 

That said, he has got this one wrong, and whilst don't think he deserves to be punished, there could be scope for him to sit down with Kick it Out and at least learn an alternate perspective on why what he did would be seen as offensive. 

I'm sure Mendy doesn't care, I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't care, but when you're a world class footballer, playing in the most visible league in the world, with 600k twitter followers, there is always going to be potential to offend if you're transmitting jokes about race across the world. 

Football is a product digested in every conrer of the globe, and if you're a willing part of that vehicle (I'm sure B.Silva is more than happy with his advertising contracts, bumper pay packets etc.) I think there should be a little bit of a remit on you to treat those who fund your unbelievebly priviliged lifestyle in a fair and decent manner. This does include at least acknowledging that two pretty crude jokes about skin colour might perpetuate piss taking that some people of colour are probably pretty sick and tired of hearing. 

It'd be great if instead of B.Silva getting pelters from sanctimonious liberals. and Kick it Out getting pelters from 'the world's gone PC mad' dullards, the two could actually get together, talk it out and do something constructive. End result, both reputations are improved, B.Silva may learn a thing or two, and the world is a little less angry! (This will never happen though)

[And Its Smith]

6 minutes ago, Keep the Faith said:

There was a good piece in The Times today which discussed the racist origins of that particular logo from the 1960s. I appreciate that is a long time ago but people have long memories and certainly there could be many people out there offended by comparing someone to that logo. There is a very recent and very dark colonial past which is heavily associated with that logo. White people might not think about historical global abuse of black people whenever something like this comes up but that's not to say it won't cause great offence to people to whom it is still a very difficult subject. 

As said above why do this sort of thing in public on twitter. Whether anyone likes it or not putting that sort of thing to a wide audience as a high profile individual immediately means your comments are treated differently to a couple of people talking to each other in private.

Kids idolise footballers and these sorts of comments are not helpful when it comes to raising a new generation who are completely open minded with regards to race and do not in any way stereotype people due to or make generalisations about people because of their race or for that matter any aspect of their personality which they would not like to be held against them in any way.

Superb post.  Pleased to see that this thread has started so level headedly (appreciate that isn’t a word!)

I think spending so much time on social media wears one down on certain subjects and I always expect the worst

Thanks to you and @underhanded 

[elhombrecito]

15 minutes ago, Selred said:

What if a kid in the playground calls another kid Conguito, due to the tweet. That kid may not want to be called Conguito and treated different due to their colour.

They can then say "well Silva said it to Mendy", and how can you explain it's still wrong.

I think this is precisely the point. 

Bernardo Silva seems like a very nice guy, and I'm absolutely sure that no offence was intended by him and Mendy wasn't offended in the slightest, but the fact is that Silva has over 600k followers on Twitter, and a lot of them will be young and impressionable, and as a public figure I think he has a responsibility not to 'normalise' racist terms like this (and let's not pretend that the logo in question isn't undoubtably racist!).

 

[Cowshed]

28 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Should have kept it private. If you tell a racist joke to a black friend privately then that’s your business. If you shout a racist joke to your friend in the middle of a huge crowd then it’s not. 

Whether Mendy was okay with it or not is totally irrelevant 

Tin hat on as I know I’m in the minority here

Its is relevant. Context is relevant, it has to be. It was a joke between friends. The recipient liked the joke. There is no racism, its affection.

Outside the interaction people are offended. People want to now harm the reputation of an individual for? Nothing. Have a think about that mindset. 

[And Its Smith]

1 minute ago, Cowshed said:

Its is relevant. Context is relevant, it has to be. It was a joke between friends. The recipient liked the joke. There is no racism, its affection.

Outside the interaction people are offended. People want to now harm the reputation of an individual for? Nothing. Have a think about that mindset. 

I will if you read some of the above posts as to why it is racist and consider them. 

[underhanded]

2 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Its is relevant. Context is relevant, it has to be. It was a joke between friends. The recipient liked the joke. There is no racism, its affection.

Outside the interaction people are offended. People want to now harm the reputation of an individual for? Nothing. Have a think about that mindset. 

As you said context is relevant - and you've left out a bit of context! 

This wasn't a joke between friends, it was a a joke between B.Silva, B.Mendy and at least 600,000 other people.
 

 

[marcofisher]

Making any reference to someone by using a character that has massive links to colonialism is always going to get you in trouble, and quite rightly. If he had called him a “Golliwog” instead would it have still been PC gone mad? I think not, and if you look into the origins of the “Conguito” character you will realise that it is exactly the same case. 

I have no doubts that Bernardo Silva did not mean to cause any offence and perhaps did not realise the historical links that these characters have. A simple public apology backed up by Mendy supporting his friend (as he obviously knew there was no bad intention) would be perfectly acceptable and everyone can move on.

At the end of the day he is a public figure and it is all about raising public awareness of the past rather than being PC too far. 

[RedRock]

29 minutes ago, RedDave said:

when you see people on twitter comparing it to Sterling calling Zinchenko the milky bar kid you know that they are so far away from seeing why it is racist there seems little point in trying to explain. 

Comparing a black person to a black cartoon character is not the same as comparing a white person to a white carton character. 

Ah, the speech/thought police are active today setting down today’s new benchmarks - which no doubt will change next year when the thought/word either becoming acceptable again to them.  Is ‘white’ or ‘non-coloured’ the term to use today?

Has there been a determination yet from the Liberal Elite whether the words/terms Brit, Pom, Limeys, Wurzel, small town in Wales  are good, bad or indifferent and whether I should be deeply offended or not? 

I need to be told by these precious petals who make a career of being offended on other people’s behalf. 

 

Bigger things to worry about in my in my mind like the human species trashing the world’s habitats and wiping out entire species at an accelerating rate.

Whatever rocks your boat though! 

 

[Cowshed]

 

19 minutes ago, RedDave said:

I will if you read some of the above posts as to why it is racist and consider them. 

I have read the posts.

 The player does not consider himself to be superior to the recipient. There is no prejudice. The recipient liked the joke. This is not racism. 

That people want to place this in the racism box … Well this is wrong.

17 minutes ago, underhanded said:

As you said context is relevant - and you've left out a bit of context! 

This wasn't a joke between friends, it was a a joke between B.Silva, B.Mendy and at least 600,000 other people.
 

 

If you join a footballers feed to read footballers banter expect to read footballers banter. Don't want to .. Get off it.

[Keep the Faith]

So a young black kid follows Mendy on twitter because he's a big fan of his and wants to emulate him one day. He sees Silva make a post like this and it upsets him but he should just clear off his twitter because it's banter and if doesn't get it then too bad. 

A young white kid sees this and thinks its ok to say that to a kid at school who might not like the joke. It's ok though it's banter.

It's not even about whether this post is racist or being offended on someone's behalf. It is about considering that there are people out there who might not see it the same way as you do and it might well upset people.

It is about thinking for two minutes before posting something on twitter but i guess that's not how things work these days. Think it, post it, don't worry about the consequences. 

 

[Mad Cyril]

The world will be a much better place with the demise of racism.

The world will be a much worse place with the demise of humour.

The challenge we all have is ability to clearly differentiate humour and racism (or any other "ism). We aren't there yet.

[Oh Louie louie]

So if somebody at work looked liked popeye you would call them popeye.

If somebody looked like chef from south park you would call them chef.

This is what goes on in normal workplaces.

 

[Bris Red]

Id genuinely like to know the positives that Twitter actually brings to the world? Or any social media site for that.

[grifty]

As people have said if it was a private WhatsApp chat there would be no issue, but Bernardo Silva obviously has no brain if he has tweeted that in the current climate around racism on Twitter.

The issue is, he has likened him to a cartoon which was created to imitate the stereotype of black people from the congo. The comments above about what if a white person was likened to Popeye or Zinchenko was said to look like the Milky Bar Kid - these are not stereotypes. They are cartoons which is saying Zinchenko has pale hair and looks young, not cartoons created to insult or belittle white people.

[Oh Louie louie]

John barnes was given the nickname of a dallas character.

Are we okay to compare players to soap stars?

These 2 players are friends.

[grifty]

32 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

John barnes was given the nickname of a dallas character.

Are we okay to compare players to soap stars?

These 2 players are friends.

Comparing black people to black people is not racist.

Comparing black people to what is essentially a golliwog. Probably best keeping it between them.

[CotswoldRed]

Oh no, the social ill that trumps everything, it's back again. 

There are so many social problems surrounding all of us but they don't get a look in. 

If a player mentioned food banks or social care in a tweet most of you wouldn't be interested. Like most voters really.

 

[Unan]

2 hours ago, bris red said:

Id genuinely like to know the positives that Twitter actually brings to the world? Or any social media site for that.

I actually connect with a lot of clever people on it,  and learn a lot.

 

 

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

4 hours ago, matalan12 said:

Well said. Couldn't agree more. Worlds gone mad., its gone way too far the other way now when we start trying to pick holes in things like this. As a charitable organisation, that people donate to, surely there time could be better spent.

I find it hard to accept that the actions of an organisation dedicated to stamping out racism in football, with the support of football authorities and players past and present, is a valid example of a ‘world gone mad’.

its interesting how quickly people jump to accuse anti-racist organisations of being ‘pc’ (an insulting term in itself).  I don’t see people so quick to condemn racism itself when it occurs within the game.

[Alan Dicks]

I read a post on fb earlier that showed a player being abused about his weight, nothing was done about it.

I Dare say if the abuse was about colour race gender or sexual orientation the post would have been removed.

[Trueredsupporter]

Yes it is a world gone mad. Two mates being mates.

[And Its Smith]

10 minutes ago, Alan Dicks said:

I read a post on fb earlier that showed a player being abused about his weight, nothing was done about it.

I Dare say if the abuse was about colour race gender or sexual orientation the post would have been removed.

It’s not a race to the bottom though.

[maxjak]

I am sorry if i appear in anway patronising (Apologist already?)  But the standard of debate instigated by the original post has given me much food for thought, and opened up aspects of the situation that i had not considered previously, the great contributions by all are impressive.and thought provoking

[Oh Louie louie]

Would i be right in thinking this congolese cartoon was made for congolese kids?

Im suprised we have so many congolese cartoon fans on here who have taken offence about 2 friends banter.

Oh tommy tommy, tommy tommy tommy tom and jerry!

What next supergran offends scottish people?

 

 

[elhombrecito]

5 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Would i be right in thinking this congolese cartoon was made for congolese kids?

Im suprised we have so many congolese cartoon fans on here who have taken offence about 2 friends banter.

Oh tommy tommy, tommy tommy tommy tom and jerry!

What next supergran offends scottish people?

No, you wouldn't be right. It's a Spanish brand of chocolates that caricatures Congolese people.

I suggest you read the many reasoned arguments above as to why it's inappropriate. 

[Oh Louie louie]

Thanks for telling me about this chcoclate problem.

Thankly this isnt our problem mr el, thats a spainish issue on your choice of words.

Anyone here with a brain would admit that.

You are way behind the times.

I was given the impression he was being compared to a cartoon character, not a bar of choclate.

Perhaps get your own house in order on certain words before you look for racism that isnt there.

[elhombrecito]

5 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Thanks for telling me about this chcoclate problem.

Thankly this isnt our problem mr el, thats a spainish issue on your choice of words.

Anyone here with a brain would admit that.

You are way behind the times.

I was given the impression he was being compared to a cartoon character, not a bar of choclate.

Perhaps get your own house in order on certain words before you look for racism that isnt there.

The issue isn't that Silva was being racist, everybody on this thread has agreed that there was absolutely no intent to offend, and I've no doubt that Mendy took it in the light-hearted way it was intended. 

That doesn't however change the fact that as somebody with 600k followers, he has a responsibility not to normalise casual racism, such as comparing a black person to a racist caricature. 

I'm not entirely sure what point you are trying to make with the rest of your post 

[Oh Louie louie]

Im making the point this silva isnt a racist.

Probaly worked with more anti racist charitys than anyone on this forum.

Hes friends with the player hes been accused of abusing.

Lets talk about the good silvas done for charity.

Not bunkum about cartoons and bars of choclate.

Why drag his name through the mud?

 

[elhombrecito]

1 minute ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Im making the point this silva isnt a racist.

Probaly worked with more anti racist charitys than anyone on this forum.

Hes friends with the player hes been accused of abusing.

Lets talk about the good silvas done for charity.

Not bunkum about cartoons and bars of choclate.

Why drag his name through the mud?

 

I agree with you. I don't believe he is racist and I don't think anybody is suggesting he is.

The simple point is that he shouldn't have used the language that he did in such a public way. It sets a bad example to impressionable people that look up to him, that such comprisons are okay. 

[grifty]

2 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Im making the point this silva isnt a racist.

Probaly worked with more anti racist charitys than anyone on this forum.

Hes friends with the player hes been accused of abusing.

Lets talk about the good silvas done for charity.

Not bunkum about cartoons and bars of choclate.

Why drag his name through the mud?

 

a) no-one has said Silva is racist. Just that he was stupid to joke like that on such an open forum such as Twitter when racist abuse has been highlighted recently due to a lot of racist abuse towards players.

b) Does working with anti-racist charities means he can compare black people to a negative stereotype cartoon?

c) if he has done so much charity work, why didn't he tweet about that instead of that cartoon?

[BRISTOL86]

6 hours ago, RedDave said:

Comparing a black person to a black cartoon character is not the same as comparing a white person to a white carton character. 

Unless I’m having a serious whoosh you’re gonna need to explain this one. 

[And Its Smith]

2 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Unless I’m having a serious whoosh you’re gonna need to explain this one. 

White people haven’t gone through decades and decades of racism and being classed as an inferior race. Or being compared to monkeys because of skin colour or many other things that have occurred in history.

A bit of sensitivity to that goes a long long way. 
 

[grifty]

6 hours ago, RedDave said:

Comparing a black person to a black cartoon character is not the same as comparing a white person to a white carton character. 

Yes it is? There is no difference in saying that my friend looks like Cleveland Brown from Family Guy because he's black, got a solid body frame and has a sort of afro and that my other friend looks like Peter Griffin because he's fat, has a big chin and is white.

There is an issue if I said my friend looks like the Portuguese cartoon characature of a black person because he is black which is what the problem with what Bernardo Silva has said.

[Oh Louie louie]

Of course no one has suggested hes a racist.

You have only got to read this thread to see the good pr hes getting.

[Trueredsupporter]

Reddave John Barnes was on sky and has basically told kick it out to get a grip of themselves and they are wrong on this one.

[Oh Louie louie]

Guys you take cartoons as real life.

Im 44 goodnight.

[And Its Smith]

4 minutes ago, Trueredsupporter said:

Reddave John Barnes was on sky and has basically told kick it out to get a grip of themselves and they are wrong on this one.

So what? Unless he speaks for all black people I don’t see the relevance 

7 minutes ago, grifty said:

Yes it is? There is no difference in saying that my friend looks like Cleveland Brown from Family Guy because he's black, got a solid body frame and has a sort of afro and that my other friend looks like Peter Griffin because he's fat, has a big chin and is white.

There is an issue if I said my friend looks like the Portuguese cartoon characature of a black person because he is black which is what the problem with what Bernardo Silva has said.

If that’s what you believe that’s fine. Agree to disagree 

[AppyDAZE]

54 minutes ago, Trueredsupporter said:

Reddave John Barnes was on sky and has basically told kick it out to get a grip of themselves and they are wrong on this one.

I saw it, and John Barnes was spot on. Skysports tried hard to make him look like he was in the wrong (talk about patronising). It's HIS opinion ffs, so well said JB for me.

Let's come down hard on racism when it IS RACISM please, and then I'm 100% with them.

[Maltshoveller]

5 hours ago, Trueredsupporter said:

Yes it is a world gone mad. Two mates being mates.

Those were the days Miss them

[BCFC11]

Can’t remember Raheem Sterling ever saying Zinchenko looks like the Milky Bar kid tbh but he did make the Tweet below which imo is no different to Bernardo Silva’s. Agree Silva should of kept it private but it’s been blown way out of proportion and now the usual suspects screaming Racism. This world and especially the UK has gone PC mad, can’t say shit nowadays without causing offence to someone. 

 

[2015]

Sick of people getting offended on behalf of others. PC will be the death of this World.

Good bit of banter between him and his best mate who clearly finds it amusing. It's only racist if it's intended to offend and hurt that person.

[MC RISK77]

19 hours ago, bris red said:

Id genuinely like to know the positives that Twitter actually brings to the world? Or any social media site for that.

Carol vorderman posting pics daily of her in skin tight clothing pretty much is all the positives you need on Twitter 

[freezer]

So the FA have deemed Silvas tweet to a fellow player and mate as 'racist', and are taking action against him. 

Is this a justifiable action by the FA or is it a case of looking for problems that aren't there? 

 

[AshtonGreat]

8 minutes ago, freezer said:

So the FA have deemed Silvas tweet to a fellow player and mate as 'racist', and are taking action against him. 

Is this a justifiable action by the FA or is it a case of looking for problems that aren't there? 

 

Well, rules is rules I suppose, but it seems daft to me. It's not exactly racist

[Numero Uno]

45 minutes ago, freezer said:

So the FA have deemed Silvas tweet to a fellow player and mate as 'racist', and are taking action against him. 

Is this a justifiable action by the FA or is it a case of looking for problems that aren't there? 

 

I’d say the FA were under pressure to act. If the general agreement is that Silva was not being racist, backed up by teammates, the Manager and most importantly of all the RECIPIENT of the tweet himself then the situation could and should have been handled differently.

[phantom]

46 minutes ago, freezer said:

So the FA have deemed Silvas tweet to a fellow player and mate as 'racist', and are taking action against him. 

Is this a justifiable action by the FA or is it a case of looking for problems that aren't there? 

 

It's a tricky one, because if I had sent the same tweet to the same person I am sure it would have been deemed racist.

Personally I think the player has to take responsibility for a very naive tweet that surely he released there would be (rightly or wrongly) backlash?

[Steve Watts]

This question is pure ignorance on my part, so any Portuguese members on here, please forgive me if I'm wide of the mark..   

Is this more a case of cultural ignorance in Portugal in general, rather than racism on behalf of the "perpetrator".  Many countries are still catching up with accepted views on racism, including many European countries.  Is Portugal one such country (genuinely I don't know, so an honest question) and therefore he's actually a victim of his upbringing in this situation, and rather than sanctioning he simply needs educating?  The general feeling on here seems to be that he wasn't being racist, but can completely understand how it can be seen as such - a point that I agree with. 

Thankfully, the world is beginning to move on on many topics, including racism, and more and more people are being educated and corrected on what is and isn't socially acceptable.  So whilst this will still garner headlines due to being in the digital age, the actual number of incidents will continue to drop compared to, say, 20 years ago, as society itself changes.

[Numero Uno]

Racism is clearly a massively important issue and needs stamping out within football (an investigation into a Leeds players comment against Leko is being undertaken). No doubt about it, I totally get that.

So Silva gets charged in connection with a tweet that is accepted was not meant to be racist, was not taken as racist by the recipient, but could cause offence to people who know the history of the image used. I get that but still think it could have been dealt with differently. But the FA have made their decision and I can accept that.

However, what charges have the FA made against Mason Bennett, Tom Lawrence and Richard Keogh.......players behaving in widely accepted disgraceful behaviour that clearly brings the game into massive disrepute due to the fact it is against the law and could have literally resulted in the death of innocent people.

[Mr Popodopolous]

The FA tend to move very slowly @Numero Uno let's not forget this- so do the EFL in fact in general terms!

I remember without going into widening the debate the Millwall-Everton chants in January- took the FA 6 months to punish Millwall- or could that be 'punish'- £10,000 fine and action plan. They're not very good! Admittedly they need to hear mitigation, aggravation etc plus Millwall's good community work down the years- still, it took them nearly a month even charge them!

Could easily get a charge for this by the FA but maybe waiting some while- the Derby 3 I mean!

[And Its Smith]

6 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Racism is clearly a massively important issue and needs stamping out within football (an investigation into a Leeds players comment against Leko is being undertaken). No doubt about it, I totally get that.

So Silva gets charged in connection with a tweet that is accepted was not meant to be racist, was not taken as racist by the recipient, but could cause offence to people who know the history of the image used. I get that but still think it could have been dealt with differently. But the FA have made their decision and I can accept that.

However, what charges have the FA made against Mason Bennett, Tom Lawrence and Richard Keogh.......players behaving in widely accepted disgraceful behaviour that clearly brings the game into massive disrepute due to the fact it is against the law and could have literally resulted in the death of innocent people.

As it is a police case, do the FA not have to wait until a certain point in proceedings until they charge the Derby players?

Also I don’t believe Keogh has broken any law that I am aware of but I’m no expert so happy to be corrected on that 

[Big C]

7 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

 

However, what charges have the FA made against Mason Bennett, Tom Lawrence and Richard Keogh.......players behaving in widely accepted disgraceful behaviour that clearly brings the game into massive disrepute due to the fact it is against the law and could have literally resulted in the death of innocent people.

I may be wrong but I would imagine the FA/EFL will wait till after the results of any criminal investigation is known

[phantom]

2 minutes ago, RedDave said:

As it is a police case, do the FA not have to wait until a certain point in proceedings until they charge the Derby players?

Also I don’t believe Keogh has broken any law that I am aware of but I’m no expert so happy to be corrected on that 

Guess that makes sense, but even so I am surprised Derby haven't suspended them pending an investigation?

Let's be honest they are band to rights with what they have done

As for Keogh, he is just guilty of being very naive and stupid

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

I’d say the FA were under pressure to act. If the general agreement is that Silva was not being racist, backed up by teammates, the Manager and most importantly of all the RECIPIENT of the tweet himself then the situation could and should have been handled differently.

This is my biggest gripe with all of the PC nonsense (not just this topic). Why don't some of these governing bodies just come out and say "we will not be taking any action whatsoever about this incident, because frankly it is a waste of time and resources"? Not long ago a poster was taken down in the London Underground after one single complaint. I expect hundreds of thousands of people had walked past it and seen it for what it was, but one person makes a complaint and they crap themselves so remove it!! The World has gone mad and we are right at the front of the queue in the UK.

[Numero Uno]

2 hours ago, RedDave said:

As it is a police case, do the FA not have to wait until a certain point in proceedings until they charge the Derby players?

Also I don’t believe Keogh has broken any law that I am aware of but I’m no expert so happy to be corrected on that 

You may be right in terms of a point in time at which charges can be made. We will see.

Keogh has not broken any law but by association with those who have, if found guilty of course (!!), and by not setting an example as Captain of his club and putting the whole fiasco to bed before it even started, has definitely brought the game into disrepute imo. I would throw the book at him as much as the other two players involved.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, wood_red said:

This is my biggest gripe with all of the PC nonsense (not just this topic). Why don't some of these governing bodies just come out and say "we will not be taking any action whatsoever about this incident, because frankly it is a waste of time and resources"? Not long ago a poster was taken down in the London Underground after one single complaint. I expect hundreds of thousands of people had walked past it and seen it for what it was, but one person makes a complaint and they crap themselves so remove it!! The World has gone mad and we are right at the front of the queue in the UK.

Suspect if it had been in a DM, a text between mates or even a WhatsApp group chat between mates this wouldn't have ever been an issue.

Still, when you have a public platform- rightly or wrongly- and when you are famous, even more so- you have to speak with great caution. It's not just a joke between mates- well it is one- but it is also one seen by many people.

A very good tip I read somewhere once is that: assume that any email you send is or could be made public. This is in plain sight, even worse.

Just the reality of the world today, dunno if it's simply PC etc.

[Sixtyseconds]

Mendy is also being charged for the offence he has caused for not being offended to those offended that he was not offended.

[grifty]

On 25/09/2019 at 23:25, BCFC11 said:

Can’t remember Raheem Sterling ever saying Zinchenko looks like the Milky Bar kid tbh but he did make the Tweet below which imo is no different to Bernardo Silva’s. Agree Silva should of kept it private but it’s been blown way out of proportion and now the usual suspects screaming Racism. This world and especially the UK has gone PC mad, can’t say shit nowadays without causing offence to someone. 

 

Saying a white person looks like another white person is not racist.

Saying a black person looks like another black person is not racist.

Saying a black person looks like a cartoon character designed to highlight the stereotypical features of a black person? It’s not the same.

I don’t believe Silva is racist or meant this as a slur against black people, but to post it on Twitter the week after Lukaku receives racist abuse, during a time where his team mate Sterling receives racist abuse is stupid. 

He should get a slap on the wrist and told how stupid he has been and to keep personal jokes with mates on private chats.

[Guest]

At what point are comedians going to start getting charged for some of their offensive jokes?

I don't want to bring politics into it but Jo Brand happily makes a joke about throwing battery acid in Farages face and "it was meant as a joke", Madonna (I think) said "bomb the White House" when Trump got in - again, all fine because she didn't mean it. Flip that and change that to Corbyn and Obama and their would be call for court dates and a custodial sentence no doubt. Hear the women on "Loose women" moan about Page 3 women and walk on girls being exploited and then 5 minutes later stick up a picture of David Beckham in his pants - and they are all loving it. Have a straight actor playing a gay person and uproar, but have a gay actor playing a straight person and that's fine. The list just goes on and on.

Many people get offended by pretty pathetic stuff (pathetic in my opinion), but rather than speak up and tell them to do one something has to be seen to be done and it is frankly ridiculous. Women getting offended if a bloke says "ladies first", if they open a door for them, buy them a drink etc etc etc.

 

[Guest]

I will say I am really offended by the Canadian PM Justin Trudeau getting blacked up though, he deserves all the grief he gets and then some, due to his pc nonsense - not allowed to say the word "mankind" in front of him as that is offensive, you have to say "humankind". These people are in charge of things ffs, no wonder why many think the World has gone mad (rightly or wrongly).

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

2 hours ago, wood_red said:

This is my biggest gripe with all of the PC nonsense (not just this topic). Why don't some of these governing bodies just come out and say "we will not be taking any action whatsoever about this incident, because frankly it is a waste of time and resources"? Not long ago a poster was taken down in the London Underground after one single complaint. I expect hundreds of thousands of people had walked past it and seen it for what it was, but one person makes a complaint and they crap themselves so remove it!! The World has gone mad and we are right at the front of the queue in the UK.

If ‘all the PC nonsense’ were to result in a reduction in discriminatory behaviour, would it have been nonsense?  I’ve certainly seen a massive reduction in discriminatory behaviour in my lifetime, which is at least partly down to what some people like to dismiss as ‘PC nonsense’.  You may not agree with it, but nonsense it ain’t.

If the world has gone mad, I’d prefer to think it is because of the rise of the alt right, the election of people with racist views to world-leading positions, and the distortions of social media, not well-meant efforts to stamp out discrimination.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

9 minutes ago, wood_red said:

I will say I am really offended by the Canadian PM Justin Trudeau getting blacked up though, he deserves all the grief he gets and then some, due to his pc nonsense - not allowed to say the word "mankind" in front of him as that is offensive, you have to say "humankind". These people are in charge of things ffs, no wonder why many think the World has gone mad (rightly or wrongly).

I don’t think using ‘mankind’ is offensive, but it may be inappropriate.  Why use the term ‘manning’ for instance, when ‘staffing’ is just as easy to say and probably more accurate.  Language is the vehicle of discrimination so hardly surprising that some people are sensitive to it.  I remember the same being said about ‘Love thy neighbour’ in the 70s: “Its just a bit fun,  don’t they have a sense of humour?”

[And Its Smith]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

You may be right in terms of a point in time at which charges can be made. We will see.

Keogh has not broken any law but by association with those who have, if found guilty of course (!!), and by not setting an example as Captain of his club and putting the whole fiasco to bed before it even started, has definitely brought the game into disrepute imo. I would throw the book at him as much as the other two players involved.

Legally throw the book at him?

[And Its Smith]

4 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I don’t think using ‘mankind’ is offensive, but it may be inappropriate.  Why use the term ‘manning’ for instance, when ‘staffing’ is just as easy to say and probably more accurate.  Language is the vehicle of discrimination so hardly surprising that some people are sensitive to it.  I remember the same being said about ‘Love thy neighbour’ in the 70s: “Its just a bit fun,  don’t they have a sense of humour?”

I hate the term ‘man up’.  We hear about men hiding depression and men suicide but we also regularly still hear men being told to man up. Doesn’t make sense to me. 

[steveybadger]

7 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

If ‘all the PC nonsense’ were to result in a reduction in discriminatory behaviour, would it have been nonsense?  I’ve certainly seen a massive reduction in discriminatory behaviour in my lifetime, which is at least partly down to what some people like to dismiss as ‘PC nonsense’.  You may not agree with it, but nonsense it ain’t.

If the world has gone mad, I’d prefer to think it is because of the rise of the alt right, the election of people with racist views to world-leading positions, and the distortions of social media, not well-meant efforts to stamp out discrimination.

PC really has become a lazy insult thrown around by some to justify not having to think about their behaviour towards others. I don’t Know the origin of the phrase but suspect it didn’t originate from those supposedly guilty of it. It’s also worth remembering that ‘PC’ was an initial response to open discrimination that was widespread, and surely no right minded individual would oppose that.