The negativity

[italian dave]

...here on OTIB really is something else.

Six days ago we're joint third the the Championship, riding high on two impressive wins, and today all the familiar old mood hoovers are out in force, calling for Johnson's head, and apparently glorying in the fact that two defeats justifies their negativity. It really feels like they've been just been waiting and hoping....

We really would be the laughing stock of the football world if we sacked LJ now. He's consistently improved our league position every year, and is currently on course to do the same again this year. For anyone who says that the footballs not always great, think back to the times over the years when we've had spells of producing some great football and losing 2-3 every week, and how we were then told that it's results, points, league position that really count.

We switched formations four games ago and that same formation has gone from being evidence that the fans were right all along to evidence that LJ doesn't know how to set teams up. And I'm sure if he had changed the accusation wouldn't have been tinkering again!

To suggest that Johnson has 'taken us as far as he can' is frankly ludicrous, given the above. How can anyone know that? And the return of the personal abuse and name calling is just pathetic.

Football at this level is a game of fantastically fine margins. Fulham get that penalty and Mitrovic puts away one of those chances and we've lost that game. Weimann puts away that chance on Tuesday night, or Williams and Weimann/Fam put away two of the easiest chances we'll get all season yesterday, and both are different games.

Im not blind to our faults and problems. The last two were very disappointing. Tuesday just seemed to be one of those where every player bar probably Fam decide to have a bad night. We've changed approach and decided to use Eliasson (which everyone here was calling for) and it worked twice. Against Millwall and Blackburn it didn't. Millwall filled the box with 5 giants and won every high ball, Blackburn worked very hard at stopping him getting those crosses in. We didn't have a plan B.

But it happens. No-one is writing Fulham off after three straight defeats. And I'm certainly not writing us of the way some on here seem to be doing, and even enjoying doing in some cases. 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

23 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Im not blind to our faults and problems. The last two were very disappointing. Tuesday just seemed to be one of those where every player bar probably Fam decide to have a bad night. We've changed approach and decided to use Eliasson (which everyone here was calling for) and it worked twice. Against Millwall and Blackburn it didn't. Millwall filled the box with 5 giants and won every high ball, Blackburn worked very hard at stopping him getting those crosses in. We didn't have a plan B.

Vs sides like Millwall, when they have a lot of big players, physical players- and this isn't hindsight, but I've thought this in general, for a long while- high balls vs fairly filled boxes is crap tactics- playing into a sides hands, to their strongest point!

Conversely, quick movement, is a way to drag them out- but also direct running- when on their A-Game which granted has not been the case for a while for some, perhaps a front 4 of O'Dowda, Brownhill, Palmer, Weimann- somethng like that, to frighten sides with a more physical backline like Millwall. It really helps the opposition, it's just poor tactics to play high balls and physical game vs a physical backline- doesn't target weak points at all! Having said that, you could easily substitute in Eliasson for one of O'Dowda and Palmer in that setup- it's proven that he can deliver different types of assists- a look through them this season, I wonder if LJ's instructions are conducive to this however.

[spudski]

4 minutes ago, italian dave said:

...here on OTIB really is something else.

Six days ago we're joint third the the Championship, riding high on two impressive wins, and today all the familiar old mood hoovers are out in force, calling for Johnson's head, and apparently glorying in the fact that two defeats justifies their negativity. It really feels like they've been just been waiting and hoping....

We really would be the laughing stock of the football world if we sacked LJ now. He's consistently improved our league position every year, and is currently on course to do the same again this year. For anyone who says that the footballs not always great, think back to the times over the years when we've had spells of producing some great football and losing 2-3 every week, and how we were then told that it's results, points, league position that really count.

We switched formations four games ago and that same formation has gone from being evidence that the fans were right all along to evidence that LJ doesn't know how to set teams up. And I'm sure if he had changed the accusation wouldn't have been tinkering again!

To suggest that Johnson has 'taken us as far as he can' is frankly ludicrous, given the above. How can anyone know that? And the return of the personal abuse and name calling is just pathetic.

Football at this level is a game of fantastically fine margins. Fulham get that penalty and Mitrovic puts away one of those chances and we've lost that game. Weimann puts away that chance on Tuesday night, or Williams and Weimann/Fam put away two of the easiest chances we'll get all season yesterday, and both are different games.

Im not blind to our faults and problems. The last two were very disappointing. Tuesday just seemed to be one of those where every player bar probably Fam decide to have a bad night. We've changed approach and decided to use Eliasson (which everyone here was calling for) and it worked twice. Against Millwall and Blackburn it didn't. Millwall filled the box with 5 giants and won every high ball, Blackburn worked very hard at stopping him getting those crosses in. We didn't have a plan B.

But it happens. No-one is writing Fulham off after three straight defeats. And I'm certainly not writing us of the way some on here seem to be doing, and even enjoying doing in some cases. 

 

Have to agree...although most on here are just talking football and are realistic. It's only a few that can't see it... especially the one's who keep asking for certain players to play, yet when they do play, and play inconsistently they ask for change again. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

The reality is...we aren't a Leeds or WBA...we are a team that could finish top 6 to lower mid table. Like many others considered better than us. Two wins over a whole season could be the difference between 3rd and mid table...it's that fine.

Do fans actually believe we should be better than the likes of Fulham, Boro, Derby, Forest and other average teams at this level?

Some reality kicks in when you see results each week and the table. Many can beat anyone on their day. Most are inconsistent.

[redsquirrel]

2 minutes ago, spudski said:

Have to agree...although most on here are just talking football and are realistic. It's only a few that can't see it... especially the one's who keep asking for certain players to play, yet when they do play, and play inconsistently they ask for change again. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

The reality is...we aren't a Leeds or WBA...we are a team that could finish top 6 to lower mid table. Like many others considered better than us. Two wins over a whole season could be the difference between 3rd and mid table...it's that fine.

Do fans actually believe we should be better than the likes of Fulham, Boro, Derby, Forest and other average teams at this level?

Some reality kicks in when you see results each week and the table. Many can beat anyone on their day. Most are inconsistent.

the moaning isn't about being as good as the teams you mention,its about showing some fight to preserve the position they have done well to achieve rather than just throwing it away with lacklustre displays

[Northern Red]

What gets me is that we now can't just lose a game because we didn't play well enough and/or the opposition were better. There always has to be some greater meaning to it like the manager has lost the plot/taken us as far as he can/doesn't know what he's doing, the owner doesn't care enough or Player X is crap/doesn't want to be here.

It seems that as we've started to lose fewer games over the past 18 months or so, the reaction to the defeats is more toxic and volatile than it ever used to be when we were genuinely crap.

[spudski]

6 minutes ago, redsquirrel said:

the moaning isn't about being as good as the teams you mention,its about showing some fight to preserve the position they have done well to achieve rather than just throwing it away with lacklustre displays

It's fine margins as the op pointed out. If we were doing as you say, we'd be top 2. We aren't...we are doing pretty much the same as the top two thirds of this league. Playing inconsistently. Which is the level most are at...we aren't a top Two side.

[Nogbad the Bad]

Don't know if many are calling for LJ's head but you can hardly blame fans for venting their dissatisfaction after the last 2 atrocious home performances.

Really dispiriting sitting through games at AG, with minimal entertainment and excitement.

I don't see it as 'negativity' to say it how it is.

Most of us would love to be positive - just give us some football to enthuse about LJ.

 

[glen humphries]

29 minutes ago, italian dave said:

...here on OTIB really is something else.

Six days ago we're joint third the the Championship, riding high on two impressive wins, and today all the familiar old mood hoovers are out in force, calling for Johnson's head, and apparently glorying in the fact that two defeats justifies their negativity. It really feels like they've been just been waiting and hoping....

We really would be the laughing stock of the football world if we sacked LJ now. He's consistently improved our league position every year, and is currently on course to do the same again this year. For anyone who says that the footballs not always great, think back to the times over the years when we've had spells of producing some great football and losing 2-3 every week, and how we were then told that it's results, points, league position that really count.

We switched formations four games ago and that same formation has gone from being evidence that the fans were right all along to evidence that LJ doesn't know how to set teams up. And I'm sure if he had changed the accusation wouldn't have been tinkering again!

To suggest that Johnson has 'taken us as far as he can' is frankly ludicrous, given the above. How can anyone know that? And the return of the personal abuse and name calling is just pathetic.

Football at this level is a game of fantastically fine margins. Fulham get that penalty and Mitrovic puts away one of those chances and we've lost that game. Weimann puts away that chance on Tuesday night, or Williams and Weimann/Fam put away two of the easiest chances we'll get all season yesterday, and both are different games.

Im not blind to our faults and problems. The last two were very disappointing. Tuesday just seemed to be one of those where every player bar probably Fam decide to have a bad night. We've changed approach and decided to use Eliasson (which everyone here was calling for) and it worked twice. Against Millwall and Blackburn it didn't. Millwall filled the box with 5 giants and won every high ball, Blackburn worked very hard at stopping him getting those crosses in. We didn't have a plan B.

But it happens. No-one is writing Fulham off after three straight defeats. And I'm certainly not writing us of the way some on here seem to be doing, and even enjoying doing in some cases. 

 

I’m moaning because I’m sick to death of watching absolute dross at home matches for nearly 2 seasons, lj has no idea how to set us up at home we’re so predictable and ponderous, with the time and money he’s spent I don’t think it’s to much to ask for us to have a set way of playing, lj is always banging on about our identity, that’s complete bullshit, we haven’t got 1.

[J-mat]

8 minutes ago, glen humphries said:

I’m moaning because I’m sick to death of watching absolute dross at home matches for nearly 2 seasons, lj has no idea how to set us up at home we’re so predictable and ponderous, with the time and money he’s spent I don’t think it’s to much to ask for us to have a set way of playing, lj is always banging on about our identity, that’s complete bullshit, we haven’t got 1.

Please go do a coaching badge or something. 

 

[glen humphries]

Just now, J-mat said:

Please go do a coaching badge or something. 

 

Why?

[glen humphries]

1 minute ago, J-mat said:

Please go do a coaching badge or something. 

 

Tell me how we play , what’s our identity?

[J-mat]

44 minutes ago, italian dave said:

...here on OTIB really is something else.

Six days ago we're joint third the the Championship, riding high on two impressive wins, and today all the familiar old mood hoovers are out in force, calling for Johnson's head, and apparently glorying in the fact that two defeats justifies their negativity. It really feels like they've been just been waiting and hoping....

We really would be the laughing stock of the football world if we sacked LJ now. He's consistently improved our league position every year, and is currently on course to do the same again this year. For anyone who says that the footballs not always great, think back to the times over the years when we've had spells of producing some great football and losing 2-3 every week, and how we were then told that it's results, points, league position that really count.

We switched formations four games ago and that same formation has gone from being evidence that the fans were right all along to evidence that LJ doesn't know how to set teams up. And I'm sure if he had changed the accusation wouldn't have been tinkering again!

To suggest that Johnson has 'taken us as far as he can' is frankly ludicrous, given the above. How can anyone know that? And the return of the personal abuse and name calling is just pathetic.

Football at this level is a game of fantastically fine margins. Fulham get that penalty and Mitrovic puts away one of those chances and we've lost that game. Weimann puts away that chance on Tuesday night, or Williams and Weimann/Fam put away two of the easiest chances we'll get all season yesterday, and both are different games.

Im not blind to our faults and problems. The last two were very disappointing. Tuesday just seemed to be one of those where every player bar probably Fam decide to have a bad night. We've changed approach and decided to use Eliasson (which everyone here was calling for) and it worked twice. Against Millwall and Blackburn it didn't. Millwall filled the box with 5 giants and won every high ball, Blackburn worked very hard at stopping him getting those crosses in. We didn't have a plan B.

But it happens. No-one is writing Fulham off after three straight defeats. And I'm certainly not writing us of the way some on here seem to be doing, and even enjoying doing in some cases. 

 

Great post. 

The worst part about Ashton Gate isn't the football, which is absolutely fine. It's sitting down knowing you're going to have to over hear absolute garbage coming from the mouths of people with no grasp of tactics let alone coaching. 

Watch with headphones in now. Sooner listen to nails down a chalkboard on repeat for 2 hours than those drips

 

[glen humphries]

2 minutes ago, J-mat said:

Great post. 

The worst part about Ashton Gate isn't the football, which is absolutely fine. It's sitting down knowing you're going to have to over hear absolute garbage coming from the mouths of people with no grasp of tactics let alone coaching. 

Watch with headphones in now. Sooner listen to nails down a chalkboard on repeat for 2 hours than those drips

 

You honestly think the football at Ashton Gate is fine, I’ve been watching for nearly 30 years it’s crap.

[glen humphries]

3 minutes ago, J-mat said:

Great post. 

The worst part about Ashton Gate isn't the football, which is absolutely fine. It's sitting down knowing you're going to have to over hear absolute garbage coming from the mouths of people with no grasp of tactics let alone coaching. 

Watch with headphones in now. Sooner listen to nails down a chalkboard on repeat for 2 hours than those drips

 

Can you answer my question  j- mat how do we play and what’s our identity?

[Fordy62]

4 minutes ago, J-mat said:

Great post. 

The worst part about Ashton Gate isn't the football, which is absolutely fine. It's sitting down knowing you're going to have to over hear absolute garbage coming from the mouths of people with no grasp of tactics let alone coaching. 

Watch with headphones in now. Sooner listen to nails down a chalkboard on repeat for 2 hours than those drips

 

You think the football at Ashton Gate is fine? Really?

[mozo]

IF we lose to on form Sheffield Wednesday side, we will be 4 league defeats in 6, averaging 1 point per game.

We are 13th in the last 6 form table and a defeat next week would likely drop to 16/17th in the form table.

Ahead of a tough game, at a ground we rarely win on, there is genuine cause for concern. 

I suppose the crumb of comfort is that we are better away from home, when counter attacking. 4 points from the next two away games would keep the wolves at bay.

A hard fought draw next week would be enough to keep the wheels on.

[Bernard Lerring]

3 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

You think the football at Ashton Gate is fine? Really?

I think this is where the negativity comes from... if 90% of our fans only ever see us play at home, how could they not be negative after what we've been witnessing at the gate for the last season and a half?

[Drew Peacock]

59 minutes ago, italian dave said:

.., think back to the times over the years when we've had spells of producing some great football and losing 2-3 every week,

Remind me.

[Fordy62]

Just now, Bernard Lerring said:

I think this is where the negativity comes from... if 90% of our fans only ever see us play at home, how could they not be negative after what we've been witnessing at the gate for the last season and a half?

I think it’s fair to say that over the past two years  when playing at home, we’ve been shit 90% of the time and good 10%. 
 

When playing away from home over the past two years I’d say we’ve been shit 50% of the time. My biggest question is why has nothing changed? Successful campaigns are run on solid home form with some decent points picked up on the road. Ashton Gate is anything but a fortress and I’ve seen nothing in the last 2 years to make me think it’ll change any time soon. 
 

what I really fear the most is a period of bad luck. Or Bentley going off the boil, because then there’ll really be trouble. 

[J-mat]

11 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

You think the football at Ashton Gate is fine? Really?

Yeah. It's fine. It's second division football. We try to build from the back and we work hard out of possession. 

We lack quality in the final third. 

But it's fine. 

[Drew Peacock]

37 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

It seems that as we've started to lose fewer games over the past 18 months or so, the reaction to the defeats is more toxic and volatile than it ever used to be when we were genuinely crap.

I think part of the reaction is that we are given so much bullshit from the club about a premier side in waiting, premier facilities and so on, and so we expect to see the performances on the pitch meet this utopia being painted for us.

[glen humphries]

2 minutes ago, J-mat said:

Yeah. It's fine. It's second division football. We try to build from the back and we work hard out of possession. 

We lack quality in the final third. 

But it's fine. 

That’s pretty basic, nearly every team in the league could say the same, for the time and money ljs spent we should expect more than that surely 

[Drew Peacock]

6 minutes ago, J-mat said:

Yeah. It's fine. It's second division football. We try to build from the back and we work hard out of possession. 

We lack quality in the final third. 

But it's fine. 

You seem to imply that because we are a second division team we lack quality in the final third.  That is bullshit.  Not all second division teams lack quality in the final third.  If it is just lacking quality in the final third, why are we one of the highest second division scores but also have one of the worst defensive records?

It is not fine.

[Redtucks]

45 minutes ago, spudski said:

It's fine margins as the op pointed out. If we were doing as you say, we'd be top 2. We aren't...we are doing pretty much the same as the top two thirds of this league. Playing inconsistently. Which is the level most are at...we aren't a top Two side.

....and if we were top 2 and threw away a 3 goal lead to those over the water, I wonder what the reaction would be.

 

[J-mat]

5 minutes ago, glen humphries said:

That’s pretty basic, nearly every team in the league could say the same, for the time and money ljs spent we should expect more than that surely 

He's spent minus money. 

[J-mat]

5 minutes ago, Drew Peacock said:

You seem to imply that because we are a second division team we lack quality in the final third.  That is bullshit.  Not all second division teams lack quality in the final third.  If it is just lacking quality in the final third, why are we one of the highest second division scores but also have one of the worst defensive records?

It is not fine.

 

[glen humphries]

2 minutes ago, J-mat said:

He's spent minus money. 

He’s spent absolute fortunes compared to our previous managers 

[J-mat]

3 minutes ago, glen humphries said:

He’s spent absolute fortunes compared to our previous managers 

He's brought in absolute fortunes compared to our previous managers. 

 

 

[exAtyeoMax]

54 minutes ago, spudski said:

It's fine margins as the op pointed out. If we were doing as you say, we'd be top 2. We aren't...we are doing pretty much the same as the top two thirds of this league. Playing inconsistently. Which is the level most are at...we aren't a top Two side.

Why aren’t we though? What should BCFC do to become a top two side?

[glen humphries]

Just now, J-mat said:

He's brought in absolute fortunes compared to our previous managers. 

 

 

Agreed and he’s having a good go at spending it