The three coaches

[extonsred]

All have had no experience of winning anything or of having much experience of coaching before they joined City. Surely this in itself speaks volumes. They are all learning on the job and have needed support and guidance at least from someone who has been there and achieved some degree of success.

[GTFABM]

3 minutes ago, extonsred said:

All have had no experience of winning anything or of having much experience of coaching before they joined City. Surely this in itself speaks volumes. They are all learning on the job and have needed support and guidance at least from someone who has been there and achieved some degree of success.

Jergen klopp was a bang average footballer and had no experience when taking his 1st managerial/coaching job. I am not for one minute suggesting our coaches will reach anywhere near his levels. But everyone starts somewhere. 

[Eddie Hitler]

3 minutes ago, GTFABM said:

Jergen klopp was a bang average footballer and had no experience when taking his 1st managerial/coaching job. I am not for one minute suggesting our coaches will reach anywhere near his levels. But everyone starts somewhere. 

Everyone starts here though.

[extonsred]

...but all three together? Bet JK had better guidance and support in his first job

[GTFABM]

2 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

Everyone starts here though.

Coppell had bags of experience. How did that go again?

2 minutes ago, extonsred said:

...but all three together? Bet JK had better guidance and support in his first job

Fair point 

[cityloyal473]

Just now, GTFABM said:

Coppell had bags of experience. How did that go again?

From Coppell's perspective quite well: he identified early it would be a gang **** and bailed.

[GTFABM]

Just now, cityloyal473 said:

From Coppell's perspective quite well: he identified early it would be a gang **** and bailed.

I guess when you look at it from his point of view

[WhistleHappy]

Just as in the wider world with the emphasis usually on academic qualification as a prerequisite for getting through the doors to employment... I think perhaps football places an all important expectation and respect for 'coaching badges' etc.. People have different personalities, qualities, abilities etc which a tick box badge cannot take into proper consideration, I just dont believe a University degree in the real World or a couple of 'badges' in the footballing one necessarily leads to the best people for the job getting it.. 

Overuse of corporate speak and buzzwords tend to speak of second hand car salesmen blinding buyers with science to me, and I'm damned sure should at least raise questionable red flags at least equal to any initial good impressions such language may create.  

Too much science etc applied to what basically is a simple game of football - it's been turned into an academic study beyond what it needs to be, theres plenty of room for much of it but it seems to have become the be all and end all to so many people nowadays to the detriment of individual natural ability which becomes stifled and blinded by the light of intellectual bullshit.

 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, GTFABM said:

Jergen klopp was a bang average footballer and had no experience when taking his 1st managerial/coaching job. I am not for one minute suggesting our coaches will reach anywhere near his levels. But everyone starts somewhere. 

Who coached and mentored him?  Erich Rutemöller, a top level coach, who was Germany’s assistant manager for 10 years.

Its one of the questions I want to ask LJ....who is his his coaching guru?  Not Brian Marwood, not the odd chat with King Kenny, etc.  Who helped him lay the foundations to his footballing principles?  His dad?  I don’t know, but I’ve never heard him come out and say the name of anyone who helped him form those principles.

Mourinho (crap footballer) had Bobby Robson, Louis Van Gaal.  Not bad.

Wenger (crap footballer) had Jean-Marc Gillou - former French international who developed Platini at Nancy.  Not bad

[Sir Geoff]

This has always worried me with LJ being 'given the keys to our younger players'. How can he improve them and give them valuable tactical advice etc when he has no experience himself or anyone to turn to for that advice.

Massengo is the obvious current example. He is 18 yrs old and listening to LJ every day. How is that remotely good for his long term ambitions. At the moment the lad clearly needs a bit of help / guidance rather than being thrown in and out of the side depending on the previous weeks results.

To my eyes HNM is slowly declining in confidence which then affects all aspects of his game and leads to a player 'hiding' during matches.

 

[marmite]

It's pretty obvious to me that LJ is coaching the team to play the only way he knows, and that is over cautiously. It's the way he was taught to play so its all he knows. At the moment it's boring in the extreme. Watch the crowds reaction if he doesn't turn it round on Sunday. And people said they wouldn't come to watch a Warnock type side. Are you enjoying this??

[GTFABM]

38 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Who coached and mentored him?  Erich Rutemöller, a top level coach, who was Germany’s assistant manager for 10 years.

Its one of the questions I want to ask LJ....who is his his coaching guru?  Not Brian Marwood, not the odd chat with King Kenny, etc.  Who helped him lay the foundations to his footballing principles?  His dad?  I don’t know, but I’ve never heard him come out and say the name of anyone who helped him form those principles.

Mourinho (crap footballer) had Bobby Robson, Louis Van Gaal.  Not bad.

Wenger (crap footballer) had Jean-Marc Gillou - former French international who developed Platini at Nancy.  Not bad

Ok maybe not the greatest of choices but i am sure there are examples.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, GTFABM said:

Ok maybe not the greatest of choices but i am sure there are examples.

No, it’s a good example.  Being a good or bad player doesn’t translate to being a good manager  

What I’ve been trying to find is whether they (as less than stellar players) have something that has made a difference. I wonder whether their “philosophy “ comes from having a mentor who was stellar themselves. 

[cidered abroad]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Who coached and mentored him?  Erich Rutemöller, a top level coach, who was Germany’s assistant manager for 10 years.

Its one of the questions I want to ask LJ....who is his his coaching guru?  Not Brian Marwood, not the odd chat with King Kenny, etc.  Who helped him lay the foundations to his footballing principles?  His dad?  I don’t know, but I’ve never heard him come out and say the name of anyone who helped him form those principles.

Mourinho (crap footballer) had Bobby Robson, Louis Van Gaal.  Not bad.

Wenger (crap footballer) had Jean-Marc Gillou - former French international who developed Platini at Nancy.  Not bad

Nail right on the head!

[Dr Balls]

Having read the title to this thread, I was thinking “see no b**locks”, “hear no b**locks”, “speak no b**locks”. Unfortunately LJ has let us down badly on the third one!

[Redwhitepurple]

Yup. No experience what so ever. Said it 3 years ago . If manager is going to be inexperienced atleast have a wise head behind him or visa versa.

 

Sack, sack, and sack

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Redwhitepurple said:

Yup. No experience what si ever. Said it 3 years agio. If manager is going to be inexperienced atleast have a wise head behind him or visa versa.

 

Sack, sack, and sack

Luton is a huge game in so many ways. Lose and you lose ground on the playoffs and make the club look less attractive to a potential new signing too.

Must win. And I don’t usually overreact like this.

Draw, he’ll get the Brentford game.

Lose, he’ll be gone imho. 

[City_USA]

1 hour ago, marmite said:

It's pretty obvious to me that LJ is coaching the team to play the only way he knows, and that is over cautiously. It's the way he was taught to play so its all he knows. At the moment it's boring in the extreme. Watch the crowds reaction if he doesn't turn it round on Sunday. And people said they wouldn't come to watch a Warnock type side. Are you enjoying this??

The difference being with a Warnock side, while not always being""pretty" football, it was very "effective, winning" football. The Cardiff fans weren't contemplating whether the football was pretty or not as they walked out of a stadium once again with the euphoria of another win, another 3 points and a pathway to the "promised land".

If SL wants the PL bad enough, he could do a lot worse than getting a Manager of men in and not rely on a good Coach to manage the squad.

[Natchfever]

3 hours ago, GTFABM said:

Jergen klopp was a bang average footballer and had no experience when taking his 1st managerial/coaching job. I am not for one minute suggesting our coaches will reach anywhere near his levels. But everyone starts somewhere. 

Klopp played second tier German football much of his career which is better than Ferguson, Wenger Mourinho or Lee Johnson achieved I reckon and when appointed coach of Mainz mid season in his first job saved them from the drop, got 2 4th place finishes the next couple of seasons before finally getting them promotion to the Bundesliga keeping them up for 2 years despite the smallest budget in the league. Johnson has been a manager/coach nearly seven years so how much longer is he to learn his trade ?

The assistants should be just that, assisting him, and I very much doubt anyway that the head coach would appreciate a strong character in the dug out with him.

[Mendip City]

18 minutes ago, City_USA said:

The difference being with a Warnock side, while not always being""pretty" football, it was very "effective, winning" football. The Cardiff fans weren't contemplating whether the football was pretty or not as they walked out of a stadium once again with the euphoria of another win, another 3 points and a pathway to the "promised land".

If SL wants the PL bad enough, he could do a lot worse than getting a Manager of men in and not rely on a good Coach to manage the squad.

I know lots would hate it.... but a six month Warnock gamble would be very interesting and no risk (we ain’t going down) and relatively cheap. 
It’ll never happen but he’s probably the sort of shake the place needs for a while... 

[chinapig]

20 minutes ago, City_USA said:

The difference being with a Warnock side, while not always being""pretty" football, it was very "effective, winning" football. The Cardiff fans weren't contemplating whether the football was pretty or not as they walked out of a stadium once again with the euphoria of another win, another 3 points and a pathway to the "promised land".

If SL wants the PL bad enough, he could do a lot worse than getting a Manager of men in and not rely on a good Coach to manage the squad.

And pretty much as soon as they were relegated Cardiff fans wanted rid of Warnock. Fans do tend to want their cake and eat it and have very short memories!

[chinapig]

4 minutes ago, Mendip City said:

I know lots would hate it.... but a six month Warnock gamble would be very interesting and no risk (we ain’t going down) and relatively cheap. 
It’ll never happen but he’s probably the sort of shake the place needs for a while... 

SL has disliked Warnock since his Palace days. Not likely to happen therefore.

Anyway, Neil has retired. Again.

[Natchfever]

5 minutes ago, chinapig said:

SL has disliked Warnock since his Palace days. Not likely to happen therefore.

Anyway, Neil has retired. Again.

I think the Cotts experience reminded SL that a strong willed manager doesn't have the "DNA" required at the club.

[Fordy62]

38 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Luton is a huge game in so many ways. Lose and you lose ground on the playoffs and make the club look less attractive to a potential new signing too.

Must win. And I don’t usually overreact like this.

Draw, he’ll get the Brentford game.

Lose, he’ll be gone imho. 

I’m most worried about the win that’d paper over the cracks. 

[Mendip City]

16 minutes ago, chinapig said:

SL has disliked Warnock since his Palace days. Not likely to happen therefore.

Anyway, Neil has retired. Again.

Hence the phrase “it’ll never happen”!!!

it would be interesting though!!!! 

[City_USA]

26 minutes ago, chinapig said:

And pretty much as soon as they were relegated Cardiff fans wanted rid of Warnock. Fans do tend to want their cake and eat it and have very short memories!

That's why you would offer it up as a short term project. Get us up to where we want to be with the knowledge that we'd be looking for a more suitable long term Manager that would be given the resources that the increased revenue would bring. I'd imagine that Colin doesn't want another career position but would he be tempted to have the opportunity to add another promotion to his legacy at a club near his home, a club that he has openly admitted to having a soft spot for? I think that maybe he would. Could he do it with the squad we have? I think he could.

Would SL consider it? Probably not considering the history that's there but that's what a forum is about, debating theoreticals.

I have thought a lot about the comments from fans about not wanting Warnock football anywhere near our club and some fans like myself that would appreciate effective football from a cunning fox like him and have come to the realisation that what counts as entertainment is very different in peoples eyes. I will be aging myself here, but back in the 80's I was an avid snooker fan. My Dad and I were always at the opposite ends of the spectrum when it came to our favourite players. My Dad was a huge "Hurricane Higgins" fan and I was a fan of Steve Davis. Interesting as I look back on it as on paper, as a drummer in a Rock band you would think I would be drawn toward the enigmatic style of Alex when in fact I was more enamored by the consistency and methodical style of Steve Davis. The reason being, as much as I would enjoy the highlights of Alex Higgins making unbelievable shots in the highlight reel accompanied by the music of "The entertainer". Seeing my Player more often than not lift the trophy at 2 o'clock in the morning as my dad would say how "miserable and boring" he was totally made my day.

I like watching the highlights of slick passing leading up to a spectacular goal as much as the next football fan, what I hate more is seeing another City Loss.

More effective football please LJ ( Seeing as you'll probably be here for the long haul )

 

 

[chinapig]

1 hour ago, Natchfever said:

I think the Cotts experience reminded SL that a strong willed manager doesn't have the "DNA" required at the club.

Possibly, though with Warnock it was much more a personal dislike because of his behaviour and that of the Orange Chairman.

With Cotts I understand there were underlying issues and fault on both sides. Though I never felt Cotts was much enamoured of the club's strategy, which is an alternative way of putting your DNA point.

[Natchfever]

27 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Possibly, though with Warnock it was much more a personal dislike because of his behaviour and that of the Orange Chairman.

With Cotts I understand there were underlying issues and fault on both sides. Though I never felt Cotts was much enamoured of the club's strategy, which is an alternative way of putting your DNA point.

Agreed. Neither Mr Warnock nor Tango man should have expected an invitation to see in the New Year in Guernsey! 

[Pickle Rick]

Thought this was an away day travel thread.

Got my hopes up.

[Lanterne Rouge]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Luton is a huge game in so many ways. Lose and you lose ground on the playoffs and make the club look less attractive to a potential new signing too.

Must win. And I don’t usually overreact like this.

Draw, he’ll get the Brentford game.

Lose, he’ll be gone imho. 

My view FWIW is that he`s likely been given a target for the next four league games (forget the cup) - something like 8points from Luton, Brentford, Wigan & Barnsley. if he doesn`t achieve that, he`s toast IMO.