Massengo

[TonyTonyTony]

On 07/02/2020 at 22:07, Lez said:

Honeymoon period is over, he was badly exposed today and offered very very little. I hope Henrickson gets up to speed quickly.

Massengo and Smith is not a CM partnership that will push us to promotion.....too negative, too lightweight, zero creativity, little physicality, zero goal threat.....teams crowd the midfield at the gate....that's what away teams do.....these 2 in a 2 is gena result on being dominated as was the case today.

Jeez. Considering the kid is 18 I don’t think he has done badly. Better than Pack ? We put up with him for several years....

The issue we have I feel is we always play 2 in the middle of the park. Our Midfield was over run on Friday. I’d like to see us play 3 in the middle but LJ seems to be allergic to that

[Simon bristol]

On 09/02/2020 at 12:49, Phileas Fogg said:

I think he’s probably better playing in a 3 really. Centre midfield is the most demanding position in football in my opinion, to play there in England at his age is a huge achievement so needs to be cut a bit of slack.

In my opinion he needs to be in a midfield 3 alongside someone more defensive (Smith/Nagy) and someone more offensive who takes the initiative (hopefully Henriksen). On Friday he looked a bit apprehensive at times but that was also down to a lack of movement in front of him and Birmingham’s shape.

Playing in a 3 will give him more confidence to keep the ball moving, which I think is his strength. He’s not the guy to criticise though, this season has been a huge learning curve for him and he’s been fantastic.

He has been fantastic, for his age, he really couldn’t have done anymore. I would rather an 18 year old kid who left monte carlo to play for us than some of the no hopers we have had over the last few years.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Simon bristol said:

He has been fantastic, for his age, he really couldn’t have done anymore. I would rather an 18 year old kid who left monte carlo to play for us than some of the no hopers we have had over the last few years.

He has, and as much as I really rate him, we have to ignore age, no sentiment in a Champ play-off push.  Overall I think he’s been just about a 6/10, comparing him to his team mates equally.  He had some really good games early on, but these have levelled out imho.

It wouldn’t surprise me if the demands of training let alone games has caused some of that.

Going back to the bit in bold, because it does deserve huge praise.  Only one player aged 18 or under has played more Champ minutes than HNM.

Jude Bellingham.  Not hard to see why from Friday either.  Of those players u19 at start of the season (pic above filtered), only Bellingham, Bogle and Ferguson have played more minutes.  I think he’s done pretty well, if you then think he’s in a new country too.

[Phileas Fogg]

12 hours ago, Davefevs said:

He has, and as much as I really rate him, we have to ignore age, no sentiment in a Champ play-off push.  Overall I think he’s been just about a 6/10, comparing him to his team mates equally.  He had some really good games early on, but these have levelled out imho.

It wouldn’t surprise me if the demands of training let alone games has caused some of that.

Going back to the bit in bold, because it does deserve huge praise.  Only one player aged 18 or under has played more Champ minutes than HNM.

Jude Bellingham.  Not hard to see why from Friday either.  Of those players u19 at start of the season (pic above filtered), only Bellingham, Bogle and Ferguson have played more minutes.  I think he’s done pretty well, if you then think he’s in a new country too.

I think age has to be factored in, ok if you're comparing him ruthlessly based on his competency as a Championship midfielder some will base it solely on performance however I believe age has probably contributed to why his performances have plateaued slightly recently so is a relevant factor.

You only have to look at players of the same age to see there's a clear difference in physical stature in 18 year old players - when Rooney first broke through, he already had a man's body. Same with the Brazillian Ronaldo in the 90s, Mike Tyson the boxer too. Their physical stature and strength meant they could achieve feats within the sport and compete against fully grown men.

Look at Cristiano Ronaldo - when he first moved to United at 18, he was lightweight and slender. It was obvious he had ability but at the time he was inconsistent and a bit of a show pony. Within a few years he worked on his strength and athleticism to become an amazing athlete who's still at the top of the game 17 years later. By contrast, Wayne Rooney will be playing against us tomorrow!

HNM is still small and slender, he's probably the lightest player from Friday's first 11 (perhaps with the exception of Paterson). He's still growing and probably won't fill out until his 20s. He's playing first team football in an incredibly demanding position against fully grown men. When you're a winger or a forward, you can hide to a certain extent and rely on speed and skill. In centre midfield, you simply can't and every single game will be a battle.

He hasn't started every game recently, but he's come from a country with a winter break where their schedule isn't quite as demanding. The punishing schedule and the position he's played combined with the factor that he's still growing means I think age has to be factored in really when discussing his performances. 

That's not to say when Henriksen is ready we shouldn't swap him for Massengo - obviously we have to do what's best for the team. I think he's been really impressive overall and seems to have settled in really well into the country. 

[marcofisher]

3 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think age has to be factored in, ok if you're comparing him ruthlessly based on his competency as a Championship midfielder some will base it solely on performance however I believe age has probably contributed to why his performances have plateaued slightly recently so is a relevant factor.

You only have to look at players of the same age to see there's a clear difference in physical stature in 18 year old players - when Rooney first broke through, he already had a man's body. Same with the Brazillian Ronaldo in the 90s, Mike Tyson the boxer too. Their physical stature and strength meant they could achieve feats within the sport and compete against fully grown men.

Look at Cristiano Ronaldo - when he first moved to United at 18, he was lightweight and slender. It was obvious he had ability but at the time he was inconsistent and a bit of a show pony. Within a few years he worked on his strength and athleticism to become an amazing athlete who's still at the top of the game 17 years later. By contrast, Wayne Rooney will be playing against us tomorrow!

HNM is still small and slender, he's probably the lightest player from Friday's first 11 (perhaps with the exception of Paterson). He's still growing and probably won't fill out until his 20s. He's playing first team football in an incredibly demanding position against fully grown men. When you're a winger or a forward, you can hide to a certain extent and rely on speed and skill. In centre midfield, you simply can't and every single game will be a battle.

He hasn't started every game recently, but he's come from a country with a winter break where their schedule isn't quite as demanding. The punishing schedule and the position he's played combined with the factor that he's still growing means I think age has to be factored in really when discussing his performances. 

That's not to say when Henriksen is ready we shouldn't swap him for Massengo - obviously we have to do what's best for the team. I think he's been really impressive overall and seems to have settled in really well into the country. 

It really depends what we want to do isn’t it? The same people who will be praising Massengo and wanting him to play every game will also be the ones wondering why we won’t be in playoffs come the end of the season. 

If we were happy to sit around mid-table and build a team, then why not play him frequently? If we want promotion this season, then he probably isn’t the answer and we should look to players who offer a bit more. In this respect, I agree with @Davefevs that age shouldn’t really be a consideration given our aims to make the playoffs. 

[mozo]

1 minute ago, marcofisher said:

It really depends what we want to do isn’t it? The same people who will be praising Massengo and wanting him to play every game will also be the ones wondering why we won’t be in playoffs come the end of the season. 

If we were happy to sit around mid-table and build a team, then why not play him frequently? If we want promotion this season, then he probably isn’t the answer and we should look to players who offer a bit more. In this respect, I agree with @Davefevs that age shouldn’t really be a consideration given our aims to make the playoffs. 

Don't forget that Massengo put in a couple of MOTM worthy performances early in the season. So at his best he's 100% a top Championship player. I presume Johnson has persevered because he expects Massengo to deliver his best again.

[Clutton Caveman]

On 09/02/2020 at 11:48, Jefferz said:

Funny, I see it differently. Massengo is too good for this mediocre side. He is quick thinking and creative with a repertoire of intelligent passing that others don’t read. He plays reverse balls and threaded balls that mystify the slow of thinking like Korey Smith who is much more limited. Without intelligent movement it nullifies the likes of Massengo and Palmer who thrive on targets for their passing. I watched the game last night and apart from thinking that the Blues simply outplayed us and looked more like a top six prospect, I lost count of the times our midfield broke free, looked forward and spun out again because of the lack of options. When did you see the great Spanish midfield constantly turning out to go back and sideways. Good movement begins as a state of mind and is a great skill/aptitude in the game. 

To link with another somewhat sad thread. The wonderful Chris Garland had great movement and intuitive timing. God bless him

 

When there is no movement in front of you, you either go sideways, backwards or lump it towards Fam.

Lack on movement and confidence is our big problem at home