t_b Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 10 minutes ago, NickJ said: He was asked to put out a squad with 17 players no wonder he lost it. In a normal employment it would have been constructive dismissal. Imagine if Johnson had less than his 30 man squad to choose from, he’d be moaning like a baby on BCTV. He just refused to put a 7th player on the bench for no reason against WBA in the FA Cup game. Scott Wagstaff frozen out? Academy players available but not showing any interest in playing or developing them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said: First I've heard of it, but I'm not ITK. I'm not sticking up for LJ, and I not sticking up for SC. I don't believe SC has it at this level(where is he now?) and I don't think LJ can take us any further. I'm neither an LJ lover or hater and the same applies to SC. Fair enough but Cotterill was never given a chance at this level for us which was a disgrace after what he achieved. Whereas Johnson has been given unprecedented funds in order to prove he hasn’t got what it takes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Oil Services Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 11 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said: Ah yes, that season when we got to a cup semi-final playing dull defensive football on a regular basis. That was shit, wasn’t it? Half of it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 19 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said: He doggedly stuck with his 352, in which we were being picked of regularly. He even put only six players on the bench at one point. Cotts had lost it, and he's never really found it at this level. Yes he had lost it. It was a pop at SL. I was sitting near SL at one game where we lost in the last minute and he looked furious. We were short on the bench and threw on Wes to try and score in injury time. The pair faced off with only one possible winner. I mentioned our position to one of the board after the game to which I was told we know where we are. Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, NickJ said: Fair enough but Cotterill was never given a chance at this level for us which was a disgrace after what he achieved. Whereas Johnson has been given unprecedented funds in order to prove he hasn’t got what it takes. We were on our way back to league one when SC was sacked. It happens. Teams get promoted, manager gets sacked when it becomes obvious he is 'struggling'. Where is SC now? What has he achieved at this level? What did he do at Brum? etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 4 hours ago, Chairman Mao said: Don't quite know what happened that summer. We had money but couldn't spend it. SC had agreed at interview that he would work within SLs strategy of developing young players with the aim of preparing them to reach Championship level. If they didn’t quite have the quality then moving them on. However...........SC failed to apply the strategy pretty much in entire time he was City. He went to SL asking for funds to sign Gale or Grey saying that he had got all he could out of the squad but SL had essentially run of patience with him and eventually sacked him. He brought in LJ because he trusted him to stick to the strategy - which of course he has and making a decent profit at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 That double winning season was the best in my memory. I loved that season and miss it. And cotts is to thank for that. Not just the results and performances, but the players too. There was such a feel good factor and camaraderie with the team. That was evident. I didnt want to see Cotterill go at the time. And my position hasn't changed on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, tommy_b said: He just refused to put a 7th player on the bench for no reason against WBA in the FA Cup game. Scott Wagstaff frozen out? Academy players available but not showing any interest in playing or developing them? **** me the very reminder that Cotts was expected to grind out Championship results with the likes of Wagstaff while Johnson can’t get a performance out of a team with £20million just on the bench only goes to highlight the gulf in quality between them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppyDAZE Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 Sat in the stand by all accounts. **** me, Stevie... whats think of that today. shambles or what ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, NickJ said: **** me the very reminder that Cotts was expected to grind out Championship results with the likes of Wagstaff while Johnson can’t get a performance out of a team with £20million just on the bench only goes to highlight the gulf in quality between them. What you don't seem to be able to get your head around is, no one is saying LJ can take us any further, no one is saying SC could take us any further, but SC was taking us back down. I don't give a flying fck about an attachment to either of them( I've been going 45 years and decided long ago that managers are going to come and go), it's the team, my club, thats important to me. SC got us up, was well supported by the board and it was a great season, but he showed he wasn't going progress. SL decided that he was going to give LJ a go and isn't going to work out. If SC was the man he's have been snapped up by someone else and being successful elsewhere, he isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 7 minutes ago, Robbored said: SC had agreed at interview that he would work within SLs strategy of developing young players with the aim of preparing them to reach Championship level. If they didn’t quite have the quality then moving them on. However...........SC failed to apply the strategy pretty much in entire time he was City. He went to SL asking for funds to sign Gale or Grey saying that he had got all he could out of the squad but SL had essentially run of patience with him and eventually sacked him. He brought in LJ because he trusted him to stick to the strategy - which of course he has and making a decent profit at the same time. Full of crap. Tell me, which young players out there today has Johnson developed? Every single one of them cost a significant fee and/or on high wages. Cotts didn’t ask for Gayle or Gray, Gayle was a second choice because Gray fell through. Oh as did a certain Harry Maguire that Cotts had done a deal for. You seem to imply Lansdown didn’t sanction any of those signings because he’d ran out of patience with Cotts. What, immediately after we’d just won the league by a mile, are you mad? The fact is Cotts had done his homework, had excellent additions to the squad lined up only for it to be taken away. No wonder he was pissed off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppyDAZE Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 13 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said: What you don't seem to be able to get your head around is, no one is saying LJ can take us any further, no one is saying SC could take us any further, but SC was taking us back down. I don't give a flying fck about an attachment to either of them( I've been going 45 years and decided long ago that managers are going to come and go), it's the team, my club, thats important to me. SC got us up, was well supported by the board and it was a great season, but he showed he wasn't going progress. SL decided that he was going to give LJ a go and isn't going to work out. If SC was the man he's have been snapped up by someone else and being successful elsewhere, he isn't. In your opinion. Cannot be proved. LJ lost his way during that 8 game debacle and yet still managed to stay up although you reckon relegation is a certainty when you're losing games. Cotterill was sacked unfairly and it's all because LJ was lined up by Lansdown ages before SC's sacking. There is no one who doesn't accept this in all fairness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 1 minute ago, AppyDAZE said: In your opinion. Cannot be proved. LJ lost his way during that 8 game debacle and yet still stayed up. Cotterill was sacked unfairly and all because LJ was lined up ages before. Your opinion. 2 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said: If SC was the man he's have been snapped up by someone else and being successful elsewhere, he isn't. AS above. My opinion, where is he now? Move on. Just like managers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 4 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said: What you don't seem to be able to get your head around is, no one is saying LJ can take us any further, no one is saying SC could take us any further, but SC was taking us back down. I don't give a flying fck about an attachment to either of them( I've been going 45 years and decided long ago that managers are going to come and go), it's the team, my club, thats important to me. SC got us up, was well supported by the board and it was a great season, but he showed he wasn't going progress. SL decided that he was going to give LJ a go and isn't going to work out. If SC was the man he's have been snapped up by someone else and being successful elsewhere, he isn't. I’m quite capable of getting my head around it thanks I just don’t see it same as you. The position we found ourselves in was entirely down to Cotterill’s intended signings being scuppered. You may think well tough you aren’t interested in individuals you just support Bristol City, players and managers come and go. Good for you but I but I think fairness loyalty and integrity are important, virtues which Cotterill was shown none of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, NickJ said: I’m quite capable of getting my head around it thanks I just don’t see it same as you. The position we found ourselves in was entirely down to Cotterill’s intended signings being scuppered. You may think well tough you aren’t interested in individuals you just support Bristol City, players and managers come and go. Good for you but I but I think fairness loyalty and integrity are important, virtues which Cotterill was shown none of. Its professional football. Were SC transfer targets realistic given the clubs perameters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 4 hours ago, JBFC II said: Oh so I must have imagined those massive bids for Gray and Gayle then... Not saying LJ has always spent wisely but to say Cotts ‘wasn’t given money’ especially considering how superior our budget was in league one compared to every other team is ridiculous And the f€£ker over delivered. No excuses. Wasn’t even expected to go straight up. What about the other big budget clubs that didn’t deliver? Sheffield Utd, the irony! ...and let’s go back to the two earlier bids before Pelling scuppered them? Gray £4.5m (ish) Maguire £2.0m (ish). Fredericks £250k. Bloke had a f€£King great eye for a player. Hypothetical, but makes me wonder how much Cotts might’ve made with similar resources? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Roger Red Hat said: Its professional football. Were SC transfer targets realistic given the clubs perameters? Given the money Johnson is being allowed to spend, yes. I think Cotterill had earned the right for his judgement to be backed. Lansdown clearly couldnt wait to get rid of him and did so at the first opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 24 minutes ago, NickJ said: Full of crap. Tell me, which young players out there today has Johnson developed? Every single one of them cost a significant fee and/or on high wages. Cotts didn’t ask for Gayle or Gray, Gayle was a second choice because Gray fell through. Oh as did a certain Harry Maguire that Cotts had done a deal for. You seem to imply Lansdown didn’t sanction any of those signings because he’d ran out of patience with Cotts. What, immediately after we’d just won the league by a mile, are you mad? The fact is Cotts had done his homework, had excellent additions to the squad lined up only for it to be taken away. No wonder he was pissed off. Nick you obviously weren’t at the Senior Reds Xmas luncheon when SL was guest speaker and pretty much said what I just posted......but you know best of course..................... You couldn’t possibly be full of crap.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppyDAZE Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said: Its professional football. Were SC transfer targets realistic given the clubs perameters? SL has time after time stated that his ambition is to see City in the Premier league. How high up on the list would you think that the owner of the club would put "proven goalscorer" ? Pretty high up, one would assume for someone who knows what it's about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 4 hours ago, JBFC II said: Oh so I must have imagined those massive bids for Gray and Gayle then... Not saying LJ has always spent wisely but to say Cotts ‘wasn’t given money’ especially considering how superior our budget was in league one compared to every other team is ridiculous The irony. The fact that Cotterill wanted to sign those players, but we didn’t, only goes to disprove your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, NickJ said: Given the money Johnson is being allowed to spend, yes. I think Cotterill had earned the right for his judgement to be backed. Lansdown clearly couldnt wait to get rid of him and did so at the first opportunity. You don’t seem to understand the finer points Nick -The money LJ has spent was generated by the players he sold and was still left with a tidy profit. “Sustainability and stability” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 1 minute ago, NickJ said: The irony. The fact that Cotterill wanted to sign those players, but we didn’t, only goes to disprove your point. Exactly. We spent £250k on Fredericks and circa £2.5m on Kodjia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, NickJ said: Lansdown clearly couldnt wait to get rid of him and did so at the first opportunity That may be so, i don't know, you obviously do. In reference to to thread title, i don't miss SC, i think he'd reached the point where he couldn't take us any further and was taking us back down, and a change needed to be made. I think LJ has reached this point. I don't dislike either of them. You obviously have an emotional attachment to SC, as I previously stated I don't with any manager. What's SC up to now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppyDAZE Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 20 minutes ago, Robbored said: You don’t seem to understand the finer points Nick -The money LJ has spent was generated by the players he sold and was still left with a tidy profit. “Sustainability and stability” So ******* proud to be a fan of “Sustainability and stability” FC Let's make the home kit black, as we are always in the black You're putting such a great case forward Robbo as always Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shtanley Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 We definitely would've stayed up. Tomlin himself would've kept us up even if SC had continued as manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said: SL has time after time stated that his ambition is to see City in the Premier league. How high up on the list would you think that the owner of the club would put "proven goalscorer" ? Pretty high up, one would assume for someone who knows what it's about. Answer the question. Were SC's targets, at that time realistic? I know the answer, and so do you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Robbored said: You don’t seem to understand the finer points Nick -The money LJ has spent was generated by the players he sold and was still left with a tidy profit. “Sustainability and stability” That is not true, we made a £25m loss in 17/18 despite net spend. The sooner people stop talking “net spend” the better. It’s not relevant. It’s wider than net spend. People on here can put their hands over their ears and go “la la ka”, but we are nowhere near sustainable. If you want SL to bail us out each year to the tune of £10m(ish) every season, then fine, but don’t quote “sustainability”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppyDAZE Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said: Answer the question. Were SC's targets, at that time realistic? I know the answer, and so do you. SL has always maintained he is ambitious for BCFC as regards getting to the Prem (I'm yet to be convinced). So what do you think is going on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 6 minutes ago, Robbored said: Nick you obviously weren’t at the Senior Reds Xmas luncheon when SL was guest speaker and pretty much said what I just posted......but of course you know best of course..................... You couldn’t possibly be full of crap.............. 3 minutes ago, Robbored said: You don’t seem to understand the finer points Nick -The money LJ has spent was generated by the players he sold and was still left with a tidy profit. “Sustainability and stability” As I’ve said before I won’t debate with you as it’s a waste of time. What I will do though is correct your factual inaccuracies. Johnson has spent more than he has received, and when you add in the massively higher salaries, even more so. If you try to refute that simple fact go for it but I won’t be wasting my breath again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said: So ******* proud to be a fan of “Sustainability and stability” FC You're putting such a great case forward Robbo as always Thanks. I’m a fan of Bristol City FC first and foremost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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