MarcusX Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 2 hours ago, italian dave said: Maybe the solution is as simple as making the vaccine passport blue https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/covid-vaccine-polling-hesitancy-support-brexit-voter-leave-oxford-university/ I think many of us could have guessed that, general sources of information being very similar for both. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 51 minutes ago, Baba Yaga said: The difference is that the rules changes were proposed by Boris so people could longer use tests to go to mass events. Once the vaccine passports are in place the goalposts can keep changing. I'm not comfortable with a new normal where if you don't take your unlicensed medication you are shut out from parts of society and it continues every 6 months or so, the green pass is being used again in Israel from next week which is a good source because they are generally ahead of us in the vax programme, if we look at them we can anticipate what will happen next here. https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-uk-data-offer-mixed-signals-on-vaccines-potency-against-delta-strain/ Here's another link from my favourite country Israel saying the Pfizer jab is 41% effective (against symptomatic transmission) and the UK is saying it's 88% effective. I wonder if the Washington Post will report that? Who are the scientists here and who are the vaccine sales reps posing as scientists? Ah, OK, I'm with you! Mind you, if you are looking for coherence, consistency, sense, then anything that comes out of the mouth of our beloved leader is probably not the place to go! However, I can see that there's an issue with anything 'passport' related for a short period because not everyone's had the chance. Once everyone has had the chance it becomes more straightforward and - whether you agree with the principle or not - at that stage the passport can be as simple as evidence of the two jabs. And that really is then as simple as scanning your QR code. No more intrusive than, say, age checks to buy certain items etc. Presumably one of the issues with Israel is that they got further ahead longer ago, so must be getting to the point where people had both jabs months ago. I'd understood the green card to be their version of the passport. In Italy you're going to have to use a green card (which is the EU version of our vaccine code) to get into bars and restaurants from next month. I think it could well be coming. My personal view is that using it as an incentive to get people to have a vaccine isn't a bad thing. There was a piece about vaccine resistance (as in people not having it) on BBC earlier. Apart from one chap saying that he was worried it would result in the government knowing how much he earned, how intelligent he was, and everywhere he travelled, there were no absolute 'wont ever get it', mostly 'haven't been bothered yet/not quite sure'. And one young man who was going to have it because it would be his "football passport". I don't underestimate the ethical issues around that - just on balance think its the right way given the increasing evidence of vaccine take up slowing down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 8 minutes ago, wayne allisons tongues said: Think he’s including children. Just over 50% of whole population had two jab. About 15 to 16 million will not be eligible which is roughly 22%. That then leads to the question what % needed for herd immunity or the 22% get it and we hope it starts to die out. Do you have any idea what that estimate currently is?. I believe there's a way virologists can calculate it. I thought a figure of 80% (of the population) had been mentioned for delta covid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 32 minutes ago, Riaz said: Well done to the club. Stopping people attending, becuase they dont want to put certain chemicals in their body - would be mental. You will have to soon if you want to attend. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFCGav Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 21 minutes ago, Riaz said: You believe in this vaccine and trust it. I dont. Why does your opinion matter more than mine? Because their opinion is based on scientific evidence and yours isn't. If they said they believed grass is green because of chlorophyll and you said you believe it's green for a different reason, their opinion is more important (or at least should be given more weight - maybe importance is the wrong word) because it is backed by science. 5 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, BCFCGav said: Because their opinion is based on scientific evidence and yours isn't. If they said they believed grass is green because of chlorophyll and you said you believe it's green for a different reason, their opinion is more important (or at least should be given more weight - maybe importance is the wrong word) because it is backed by science. Plenty of scientists out there, that disagree with this vaccine. And there are also scientists who disagree with vaccinating the whole population, because that has negative consequences. Then you have the fact that it was rushed. No idea about long term affects. And then i have my suspicions, based on the fact, for the first time in history we are vaccinating the whole population for something that IS NOT deadly to healthy people. In this country, more people have now died from the vaccine, than healthy people have died from covid. I also tend to react to stuff - i had antibiotics in 2017 to treat pneumonia and they ****** my kidneys for life. So i am wary of sticking things in my body. Your choice is to trust it and i respect that. Please respect my choice. Edited July 23, 2021 by Riaz 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 20 minutes ago, Super said: You will have to soon if you want to attend. That will l be a disgrace. We'd be no better than China. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 39 minutes ago, Riaz said: You believe in this vaccine and trust it. I dont. Why does your opinion matter more than mine? I don't think this is about opinions, its about decisions and actions (although clearly there's a link). I'm aware that there are risks associated with the vaccine. I certainly don't believe in it 100%. I don't really like the idea of passports more generally, my opinion is we shouldn't have to have them, but I choose to have one. Just as people choose to drive on the left, wear helmets on a motorbike etc. So, to answer your question: 1. Because I've done what society has asked me to do in order to help us collectively overcome this pandemic, and you haven't. 2. Because if I'm wrong then you're no worse off. If you're wrong you could kill or seriously disable me. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebristolred Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Riaz said: In this country, more people have now died from the vaccine, than healthy people have died from covid. Not sure how you can claim this in any way and I'd also guess it's categorically untrue. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, Riaz said: In this country, more people have now died from the vaccine, than healthy people have died from covid. Sorry, what? People have died within 28 days of having the vaccine. I think that's the statistic you are referring to, and the vaccine hasn't been the cause of death... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 8 minutes ago, Riaz said: In this country, more people have now died from the vaccine, than healthy people have died from covid. Evidence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenred Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 9 minutes ago, Riaz said: In this country, more people have now died from the vaccine, than healthy people have died from covid. What? Where on earth have you got that nonsense from?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, nebristolred said: Not sure how you can claim this in any way and I'd also guess it's categorically untrue. I can’t find the figures for Covid deaths for healthy people under 60, but last time i checked it was under 1000. Deaths from vaccine 1470 and counting. Covid has been here’s for 16 months and most people have only just been vaccinated 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTonyTony Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 As ive said before : Stupid People - Guaranteed to **** it up for the rest of us 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenred Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Riaz said: I can’t find the figures for Covid deaths for healthy people under 60, but last time i checked it was under 1000. Deaths from vaccine 1470 and counting. Covid has been here’s for 16 months and most people have only just been vaccinated So the bit where it says ‘these deaths aren’t necessarily caused by the vaccine’….did you miss that bit out? And the bit that says by chance some people will experience a new illness? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebristolred Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, Riaz said: I can’t find the figures for Covid deaths for healthy people under 60, but last time i checked it was under 1000. Deaths from vaccine 1470 and counting. Covid has been here’s for 16 months and most people have only just been vaccinated So there's what, 40,000,000 people who have been vaccinated in the UK to some extent. And 1,470 have died within 28 days? That sounds like about the normal number you'd expect to die from 40,000,000 in the 7 months or so we've been vaccinating people. Nothing dodgy about that at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 10 minutes ago, Riaz said: I can’t find the figures for Covid deaths for healthy people under 60, but last time i checked it was under 1000. Deaths from vaccine 1470 and counting. Covid has been here’s for 16 months and most people have only just been vaccinated You've made an absolute prat out of yourself here mate. 8 8 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, nebristolred said: So there's what, 40,000,000 people who have been vaccinated in the UK to some extent. And 1,470 have died within 28 days? That sounds like about the normal number you'd expect to die from 40,000,000 in the 7 months or so we've been vaccinating people. Nothing dodgy about that at all. Indeed....you might even conclude that the vaccine will keep you alive longer!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebristolred Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, italian dave said: Indeed....you might even conclude that the vaccine will keep you alive longer!! In fact yes, 1,470 is probably pretty low! Suggests only about 18,000 people a year die, which is surely way lower than the actual total. Either way, nothing from that to suggest the vaccine is dangerous. Edited July 23, 2021 by nebristolred 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Riaz said: I can’t find the figures for Covid deaths for healthy people under 60, but last time i checked it was under 1000. Deaths from vaccine 1470 and counting. Covid has been here’s for 16 months and most people have only just been vaccinated So a) you're evidently of the Johnson "anyone over 80 doesn't really matter" view, only taking it that much further b) haven't fully read the small item you've circled: "The deaths aren't necessarily caused by the vaccine though" I really don't know why this has to keep being pointed out, but if you base your view on what's recorded on the yellow card scheme, then you'll believe that the vaccine can get you pregnant, give you insect bites, make you redundant and a whole manner of other things. Edited July 23, 2021 by italian dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baba Yaga Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 8 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said: As ive said before : Stupid People - Guaranteed to **** it up for the rest of us When the solution is vaccines every year for life and a digitally controlled authoritarian system to enforce it then people are entitled to have serious reservations about the future being mapped out, people overlooking the implications of this and somehow still thinking they're righteous doesn't help much either in my view. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, Baba Yaga said: When the solution is vaccines every year for life and a digitally controlled authoritarian system to enforce it then people are entitled to have serious reservations about the future being mapped out, people overlooking the implications of this and somehow still thinking they're righteous doesn't help much either in my view. Vaccination is clearly part of the solution as it has been in medicine for decades already. Nothing is being "enforced" regarding anyone not taking the vaccine, it's the individual's choice. From speaking with a GP friend, the issue isn't "anti-vaxxers" or people unwilling to take the jab anyway. They make up such a tiny minority of the population that we will reach herd immunity without them. All I will say is, good job the majority have stepped up, otherwise we'd be in a permanent state of lockdowns and restrictions - and properly enforced ones too. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Bat Fastard said: The point is that with so many people milling about in the concourse, it would be difficult to find a place to safely remove a mask and then eat and drink. Some on here have said that it is possible to leave the ground at half time, but if you factor in climbing down from a seat at the top of the Dolman, managing to get a pee, then managing to get out behind the SS and queue to buy refreshments before tearing back to the top of the Dolman. It all sounds pretty high pressure for an old git of 70. Of course, I was being facetious I do understand. I seen the videos of the concourses at Wembley... there was no safe space. Although at Wembley for the FA Cup final and only 20k people in that huge stadium was very pleasant, but probably not want many people want from a football experience (myself included) 1 hour ago, Riaz said: You believe in this vaccine and trust it. I dont. Why does your opinion matter more than mine? One opinion is backed up by science, kinda helps 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 33 minutes ago, lenred said: So the bit where it says ‘these deaths aren’t necessarily caused by the vaccine’….did you miss that bit out? And the bit that says by chance some people will experience a new illness? The same for Covid deaths I literally watched Chris Whitty on TV say so! So it’s comparable! 36 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said: As ive said before : Stupid People - Guaranteed to **** it up for the rest of us Agree. People just follow like sheep, without thinking for themselves 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 28 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: You've made an absolute prat out of yourself here mate. What, because i haven’t been scared into having a vaccine i don’t need? And most of us don’t need. I think for myself and don’t trust the government and elites. Why would i. Most the time they try and **** us over. Many parts of the world don’t have running water or other basic needs. I bet these people that care so much, make sure they have the vaccine tho! 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRaw Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Riaz said: What, because i haven’t been scared into having a vaccine i don’t need? And most of us don’t need. I think for myself and don’t trust the government and elites. Why would i. Most the time they try and **** us over. Many parts of the world don’t have running water or other basic needs. I bet these people that care so much, make sure they have the vaccine tho! But you’re happy to put your faith and quote ‘facts’ from an online, conspiracy theory, anti-vax outlet…..not really thinking for yourself I’d say 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!james Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 Absolute dangers walk amongst us. Frightening 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, Riaz said: What, because i haven’t been scared into having a vaccine i don’t need? And most of us don’t need. I think for myself and don’t trust the government and elites. Why would i. Most the time they try and **** us over. Many parts of the world don’t have running water or other basic needs. I bet these people that care so much, make sure they have the vaccine tho! Obviously your choice not to have it. Your life will obviously be a lot different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 29 minutes ago, italian dave said: Indeed....you might even conclude that the vaccine will keep you alive longer!! Did you just say that About a million people injured according to government figures is the reality And apparently only 1-10% of issues get reported Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNick Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, Riaz said: I think for myself Hahah, you mean like posting a fullfact.org post and not reading it? Or using their quote of the facebook article they're debunking to back up your point? True free thought! Absolutely laughable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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