The Coronavirus and its impact on sport/Fans Return (Merged)

[bbew]

50 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

That is a fair point tbh. Having a fully vaccinated crowd doesn't mean half of them dont have the virus, I guess it's just that if anyone did have it the symptoms would be less noticable, the viral load they are spreading is  greatly reduced etc. its a lower risk

 

Now clearly we need to trust the scientists here - but just from an uneducated point of view:

If someone has not had the vaccine, as you say they would have more symptoms, more viral load and more likely to spread.  But surely in that case they would probably (hopefully) not attend a football match?

Those that are vaccinated are less likely to show symptoms (and spread), but they are more likely to still attend.

So are you not more likely to be sat next to a vaccinated person with covid than an unvaccinated person with covid?

There has been so much talk about asymptomatic spread, and how we should almost assume everyone has the virus, but are we now moving into this situation?

For reference - I have had the jab, I encourage others to have the jab, but it is just something that does not seem to get mentioned.     

 

 

Edited July 20, 2021 by bbew

[Lrrr]

Venues with capacities of ~20,000 or more may have to require vaccination passports

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/57905459

[Mr Popodopolous]

Daily Mail suggests 16k upwards if Infection rates stay high.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9806015/Football-fans-need-two-Covid-jabs-attend-autumn-matches-infection-rates-high.html

[Bristol Rob]

13 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Daily Mail suggests 16k upwards if Infection rates stay high.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9806015/Football-fans-need-two-Covid-jabs-attend-autumn-matches-infection-rates-high.html

Still won't impact the Fewers.

[Betty Swallocks]

6 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

Could be 25,000 of us waking up to the PING! the day after the opening game.

You can only get a ping if you have the app…..

[Bristol Rob]

1 hour ago, Betty Swallocks said:

You can only get a ping if you have the app…..

Which you'll need to prove you can go to the game?

[Betty Swallocks]

1 hour ago, Bristol Rob said:

Which you'll need to prove you can go to the game?

Access to a vaccine passport is via the NHS app rather than the track and trace app.

[robin_unreliant]

I'm wondering about the Blackpool game as already have tickets. 

HMG are saying large events may need a passport arrangement but only from September. This seems crazy, bonkers, whatever word you want to insert for illogical. 

I can see there may be a reason now when 66% are fully jabbed. By end Sept it will probably be 85-90%. So why have all the hassle of a check starting then when the population have pretty much all got the best protection they are ever gonna get from covid? 

Surely more logical to require it now and stop once the vaccine rollout finishes. The only reason for announcing it seems to be to bounce young people into getting a jab. What a cowardly way to do it, causing chaos to businesses. If they want everyone to be jabbed then politicians should have the balls to mandate it rather than create chaos for businesses. 

[E.G.Red]

9 hours ago, robin_unreliant said:

I'm wondering about the Blackpool game as already have tickets. 

HMG are saying large events may need a passport arrangement but only from September. This seems crazy, bonkers, whatever word you want to insert for illogical. 

I can see there may be a reason now when 66% are fully jabbed. By end Sept it will probably be 85-90%. So why have all the hassle of a check starting then when the population have pretty much all got the best protection they are ever gonna get from covid? 

Surely more logical to require it now and stop once the vaccine rollout finishes. The only reason for announcing it seems to be to bounce young people into getting a jab. What a cowardly way to do it, causing chaos to businesses. If they want everyone to be jabbed then politicians should have the balls to mandate it rather than create chaos for businesses. 

Because a vast number of 25 30 year olds won’t have had their 2nd jab by August but by September they would all have had the opportunity 

[Bannerman]

9 hours ago, robin_unreliant said:

I'm wondering about the Blackpool game as already have tickets. 

HMG are saying large events may need a passport arrangement but only from September. This seems crazy, bonkers, whatever word you want to insert for illogical. 

I can see there may be a reason now when 66% are fully jabbed. By end Sept it will probably be 85-90%. So why have all the hassle of a check starting then when the population have pretty much all got the best protection they are ever gonna get from covid? 

Surely more logical to require it now and stop once the vaccine rollout finishes. The only reason for announcing it seems to be to bounce young people into getting a jab. What a cowardly way to do it, causing chaos to businesses. If they want everyone to be jabbed then politicians should have the balls to mandate it rather than create chaos for businesses. 

It is illegal to discriminate at any level, regardless of views on here. Lawyers are inundated with thousands of claims and will go on for a while. One case alone as cost a company £8,000. A lot of lawyer firms can’t take anymore claims of because of being inundated.

[robin_unreliant]

1 hour ago, E.G.Red said:

Because a vast number of 25 30 year olds won’t have had their 2nd jab by August but by September they would all have had the opportunity 

I don't think what I'm saying is rocket science but maybe it wasn't clear. 

Once everyone who is going to has been double-jabbed, there is less need for a passport. It makes more sense to restrict the crowd to vaccinated people when a third still haven't been done. 

Delaying it because you don't want to discriminate against those who haven't had chance yet is illogical. It means you lose the beneficial effects now and bring it in when the benefit is marginal. I realise it is just a lever to get more people to get jabbed but this is just the wrong way to go imo. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

11 hours ago, robin_unreliant said:

I'm wondering about the Blackpool game as already have tickets. 

HMG are saying large events may need a passport arrangement but only from September. This seems crazy, bonkers, whatever word you want to insert for illogical. 

I can see there may be a reason now when 66% are fully jabbed. By end Sept it will probably be 85-90%. So why have all the hassle of a check starting then when the population have pretty much all got the best protection they are ever gonna get from covid? 

Surely more logical to require it now and stop once the vaccine rollout finishes. The only reason for announcing it seems to be to bounce young people into getting a jab. What a cowardly way to do it, causing chaos to businesses. If they want everyone to be jabbed then politicians should have the balls to mandate it rather than create chaos for businesses. 

1. Yeah, feels like a bit of that is at play.
2. Erm, would be interesting to know how out and out mandating of a vaccine that was basically done in a year, given it usually takes 3-5 years before licensed for approval and probably longer would fit legally- surprised if no challenges, to all intents and purposes in some ways all of them are Experimental medicines. Seems problematic in the US anyway, unsure how it fits here.

[James54De]

1 hour ago, Bannerman said:

It is illegal to discriminate at any level, regardless of views on here. Lawyers are inundated with thousands of claims and will go on for a while. One case alone as cost a company £8,000. A lot of lawyer firms can’t take anymore claims of because of being inundated.

Not quite. You can’t discriminate against ‘protected characteristics’. You can not allow entry because of other things. E.g clothing, personality, inebriation state, mask wearing, etc.   
 

Again, the position on vaccine passports would have to pass into law, thus would be completely legal, no matter what you, or said ‘lawyers’ believe. 

Edited July 21, 2021 by James54De

[Bannerman]

24 minutes ago, James54De said:

Not quite. You can’t discriminate against ‘protected characteristics’. You can not allow entry because of other things. E.g clothing, personality, inebriation state, mask wearing, etc.   
 

Again, the position on vaccine passports would have to pass into law, thus would be completely legal, no matter what you, or said ‘lawyers’ believe. 

Human Rights is not the only Act that comes into play, it also comes under other international laws as well, but the clue is what you stated.

The first page of the passport is another which already passed into law.

Furthermore, just because it’s legal does not mean it’s lawful. We have abundance of case laws that cannot be overridden.

Nevertheless, it as to go through Parliament and House of Lords

Edited July 21, 2021 by Bannerman

[James54De]

7 minutes ago, Bannerman said:

Wrong, it also comes under international laws as well, but the clue is what you stated.

And open the first page of your passport is another which already passed into law.

Furthermore, just because it’s legal does not mean it’s lawful. We have abundance of case laws that cannot be overridden.

 

You can say wrong all you like. Vaccine passports are not illegal under any law, as has been tried in the ECHR already. 

Edited July 21, 2021 by James54De

[Bannerman]

Just now, James54De said:

You can say wrong all you like. Vaccine passports are not illegal under any law, as has been tried in the ECHW already. 

You can by pass them it’s already been done

[James54De]

5 minutes ago, Bannerman said:

You can by pass them it’s already been done

 Give it a rest. The ECHR is the highest court, and have already displayed that Vaccine Passports are within law. As is compulsory vaccination. 

Edited July 21, 2021 by James54De

[Mr Popodopolous]

39 minutes ago, James54De said:

Not quite. You can’t discriminate against ‘protected characteristics’. You can not allow entry because of other things. E.g clothing, personality, inebriation state, mask wearing, etc.   
 

Again, the position on vaccine passports would have to pass into law, thus would be completely legal, no matter what you, or said ‘lawyers’ believe. 

You seem awfully keen as per usual to push Vaccines and Vaccine Passports.

Edited July 21, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[James54De]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

You seem awfully keen as per usual to push Vaccines and Vaccine Passports...

Okay. Your point? 

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, James54De said:

Okay. Your point? 

None in particular, more like what's your point/agenda.

I won't post them but I certainly have a few theories.

Edited July 21, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Bannerman]

Just now, James54De said:

 Give it a rest. The ECHR is the highest court, and have already displayed that Vaccine Passports are within law. 

Open your mind and learn Hague world not European and study under Nuremberg Code trials regarding vaccines 

[James54De]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

None in particular, more like what's your point/agenda.

I won't post them but I certainly have a few theories.

Please, open up

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, James54De said:

Please, open up

Well, maybe not then- merely my guess would be that you support Vaccine Passports for big events from a health POV- seems like overkill to me given the number of aging and vulnerable who are now vaccinated, and b) That those under 50s in hospital cited elsewhere, absolute numbers and then % with co-morbidities would take the problem down somewhat.

[James54De]

3 minutes ago, Bannerman said:

Open your mind and learn Hague world not European and study under Nuremberg Code trials regarding vaccines 

Again, absolutely not related to anything near the “Covid Pass” being proposed. Nor is the Nuremberg Code, (which looking at the formatting of your you’re not particularly clued up on, seeing as you had to copy and paste it to spell it correctly) particularly applicable related to Covid. 
https://fullfact.org/health/nuremberg-code-covid/

[Bannerman]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Well, maybe not then- merely my guess would be that you support Vaccine Passports for big events from a health POV- seems like overkill to me given the number of aging and vulnerable who are now vaccinated, and b) That those under 50s in hospital cited elsewhere, absolute numbers and then % with co-morbidities would take the problem down somewhat.

He won’t believe you

[James54De]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Well, maybe not then- merely my guess would be that you support Vaccine Passports for big events from a health POV- seems like overkill to me given the number of aging and vulnerable who are now vaccinated, and b) That those under 50s in hospital cited elsewhere, absolute numbers and then % with co-morbidities would take the problem down somewhat.

Well done, you clever clever man. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

9 minutes ago, James54De said:

Well done, you clever clever man. 

Well aren't you the smug one- but.

I suspect there will be pushback if rolled out widely, and a sizeable minority opposed can certainly constitute a problem. Not that I advocate it of course but people will do what people do- and who can blame them tbh.

The fact you wish to bounce people into a partially rushed vaccine says plenty about you- sizeable minority opposed- see Polltax.

Edited July 21, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Bannerman]

11 minutes ago, James54De said:

Again, absolutely not related to anything near the “Covid Pass” being proposed. Nor is the Nuremberg Code, (which looking at the formatting of your you’re not particularly clued up on, seeing as you had to copy and paste it to spell it correctly) particularly applicable related to Covid. 
https://fullfact.org/health/nuremberg-code-covid/

You are a sarcastic half wit and patronising and for your information I didn’t copy paste moron. Again you made a presumption. If choose to correct myself it’s none of your damn business how I go about it. Go and rest your intellectual brain for a while.

I didn’t mention anything about COVID i had mentioned vaccines (that was used on the prisoners mainly Jews) again study before making judgement.

Edited July 21, 2021 by Bannerman

[James54De]

8 minutes ago, Bannerman said:

You are a sarcastic half wit and patronising and for your information I didn’t copy paste moron. Again you made a presumption. If choose to correct myself it’s none of your damn business how I go about it. Go and rest your intellectual brain for a while

That white background on you text looked very much like a copy and paste to me, but what do I know? 

[James54De]

14 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Well aren't you the smug one- but.

I suspect there will be pushback if rolled out widely, and a sizeable minority opposed can certainly constitute a problem. Not that I advocate it of course but people will do what people do- and who can blame them tbh.

The fact you wish to bounce people into a partially rushed vaccine says plenty about you- sizeable minority opposed- see Polltax.

Hahaha. Like they did against lockdown, etc. Strange how your argument has fallen apart so quickly. Presume you have had the vaccine?