You are Lee Johnson...first game back, team?

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 hours ago, JonDolman said:

I think we may be seeing the old fashioned 442 from now on. Maybe it will be that back 4 but with Dasilva in for Rowe.

Nothing to do with DaSilva vs Rowe, but the bolded bit?

If the bolded bit is true, say  goodbye to the playoffs IMO.

[SoliCyder]

Really hope to see Palmer tuck in behind a front 2. Whether we line up with 4-3 or 3-4/5-2 and the particular personnel behind them I'm not so bothered - as many have said we have a great squad when fully fit

[Mr Popodopolous]

56 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I might be wrong, it's just LJ has always seemed keen on playing 442. And I assumed with the strikers we have that LJ had gone 2 up top yesterday.

But the team he started with actually looks like - Bentley, Hunt, Rowe, Kalas, Baker, Smith, Massengo, Eliasson, O'Dowda, Paterson, Diedhiou

So I guess that is some kind of 451. And he might do something completely different next week anyway so maybe yesterday doesn't matter.

I think it could possibly work going 442, though it's not what I would do. I think it would mainly come down to how solid our 2 banks of 4 can be and how good the 2 strikers are when dropping back or in the channels.  I think Wells and Afobe could make a great partnership and can both do much more than just score goals.

But Wells did not seem to play so it might be that he is injured.

Palmer in behind Afobe in a 4231? Room for Eliasson in the team then. I think we'd be able to play an exciting passing game then too.

There's so many different teams and formations we could pick right now. If LJ picks the wrong one and has to make 3 half time subs then that will be very worrying!

Fair points. On paper I worry about it vs good sides who overload the centre. See Leeds, West Brom, Brentford! Or even middling sides who nonetheless have good numbers in there.

Wells and Afobe can be an excellent pair, Afobe, Weimann and Wells I'd quite like to see perhaps, think that 3 could do a lot and shuffle into wide forwards, pressing without the ball during other phases..

Question is how much possession and control without the ball do we need? Our metrics this season have not been very good!

Metrics is a debate for another thread that bit, but I can see that shape having issues quite quickly, certainly vs decent sides. The 4-4-2 I mean.

Smith and Massengo seems fine on paper and I wouldn't object to it in some ways but take vs Leeds:

Smith and Massengo vs say Phillips, Klich and one of Forshaw or Dallas. Immediately you have a problem! 3 v 2 can get you overrun. 

White can carry the ball into midfield, the likes of Costa or Hernandez can drift in...

Suddenly you're overwhelmed, firefighting everywhere and you lose the midfield! Palmer won't track back or won't do so to the level required. It can throw up opportunities too of course.

A ball carrying CB can help with this, but Williams and Baker wouldn't fit the bill. Possibly Kalas likewise though his strong interception skills is a useful indicator of hope.

Could O'Dowda drift in? Possibly but perhaps not as swiftly or readily as Costa or Hernandez. 

Losing the midfield puts the defence under a hell of a lot of pressure. Williams and Baker would be useful as stoppers but a 35 year old CB can be vulnerable. See Brentford game and the sending off, the headstart he had and lost was frightening!

Or say it was vs the Sheffield United of last season. Palmer-Afobe, Wells would each have a CB. Duels. 3 in CM vs Smith and Massengo, 3 v 2 issue again.

Otoh we can win the flanks but crossing can be an inefficient way to score.

When they had Brooks behind a striker in 2017-18 that's even more problematic. 4 v 2 in CM in some phases yet Brooks and striker vs our defence, still losing the midfield.

Suppose if Palmer does drift back you leave the spare man in their back 3...problem is their CBs are attacking so they can adapt to that and leave you in arrears again- perhaps CB 3 goes to a flank and helps in a 2 v 1 to help guard against an overload on that side!

I dunno I just forsee loss of control and tactical problems with how LJ likes to setup. Then again Leeds atm and Sheffield United of last two seasons are very specific examples that may not be so easily replicated.

[Davefevs]

6 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Looks like LJ started with a defence last night of Pereira - Kalas - Baker - Rowe

I think we may be seeing the old fashioned 442 from now on. Maybe it will be that back 4 but with Dasilva in for Rowe.

I am not against this, but my only concern is will LJ play the players that can keep us solid behind Afobe and Wells. I assume that will be the strike force.

Attacking full backs and wingers. And we mainly have short midfielders, 2 of which are pretty lightweight in Massengo and Nagy.

I wonder if we will be a bit too easy to open up and I will always worry about defending set pieces with no Fam.

At least we have Henriksen who I thought was excellent against Derby alongside Korey. 

And we have Watkins who can also offer some height and physicality.

One or both of those players may be needed to get the right balance.

 

From Gregor it appeared to be a 4411 with Pato behind Fam.

In the last 45 it appeared to be Palmer behind Afobe and Watkins.

[Mr Popodopolous]

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

From Gregor it appeared to be a 4411 with Pato behind Fam.

In the last 45 it appeared to be Palmer behind Afobe and Watkins.

Afobe and Watkins sounds interesting. A link to the whole side or just snippets from Gregor? Assuming that's a loose 4-3-1-2, Palmer obviously as the '1'.

Pato behind Fam, meshes a bit better than Palmer behind Fam but still not ideal IMO.

Watkins up front in a pair can offer a bit of physicality yet versatility at the same time. Would be interesting to know how he did.

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Afobe and Watkins sounds interesting. A link to the whole side or just snippets from Gregor? Assuming that's a loose 4-3-1-2, Palmer obviously as the '1'.

Pato behind Fam, meshes a bit better than Palmer behind Fam but still not ideal IMO.

Watkins up front in a pair can offer a bit of physicality yet versatility at the same time. Would be interesting to know how he did.

He only listed the first 45 eleven, with specific semi-colons between positions, which he advised another tweeter.

 

[Jeez]

Would like to see a 4-3-3 going into the last 9 games, gives us a chance to utilise our attacking depth, not just lump it to Fam.

Perreira & Dasilva pressing forward in attack & dropping back in when off the ball.

A midfield 3 of Nagy, Smith & Massengo - one of these drops into holding position when full backs overlap.

Giving us a chance to use combinations of Afobe, Palmer, Patterson, Wells, Weiman, Watkins, Elliason & Fam in an attacking 3.

Players like Weiman Elliason & Patterson able to drop back into midfield as needed.

[Son of Fred]

On 05/06/2020 at 18:37, GrahamC said:

Not my side but assuming everyone comes through the next fortnight safe & well, bearing in mind we start with an away game against a side also in with a shout of making the playoffs I think we will line up at Blackburn something near to this;

Bentley

Pereira Kalas Baker Dasilva

Weimann Smith Nagy Paterson 

Afobe Wells.

I think the only doubts would be over putting Benik back in from the start & whether Massengo edges Nagy out instead.

 LJ is a big fan of Weimann so with other (better) options up top now will want to include him & Paterson has scored a few & assisted others after his return from Derby.

Like @Davefevs I prefer Mäenpää myself & would also start with Famara but have selected the side I think LJ is more likely to pick.

Like that line up minus Bentley..

Would definitely start with Niki..steadying influence...

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

I saw Palmer clips the other day against Leeds and although he was sloppy at times, he did give Philips some real problems. Shows how much talent he has as Philips is probably a good prem player sort of standard.

Yeah I am more of a fan of an extra body in midfield like you. But I do think 442 can work too. It certainly works for some teams. 

I was hoping for the early season look to the team now Afobe is back but maybe LJ i going with something else. Lets see what happens.

 

I don't know if Wells is injured, but I can't imagine him not playing Wells and Afobe if fit.

If he is injured then surely either Pato or Palmer could play behind Afobe.

I wasn't sure if Watkins was up top or just drifted in from the right side in those clips. Well I like him in either position to be honest. Really would not mind Marley starting as he's a handful imo.

Was this the February game? Worth noting how battered we got in that, we had a big chance to get a draw and maybe should've had a penalty but Bentley was great in that one!

Time will tell. At this level, I'm interested in examples of a successful 4-4-2? Certainly in and around top 6...seems to be getting less and less commonplace.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Red Alert said:

Would like to see a 4-3-3 going into the last 9 games, gives us a chance to utilise our attacking depth, not just lump it to Fam.

Perreira & Dasilva pressing forward in attack & dropping back in when off the ball.

A midfield 3 of Nagy, Smith & Massengo - one of these drops into holding position when full backs overlap.

Giving us a chance to use combinations of Afobe, Palmer, Patterson, Wells, Weiman, Watkins, Elliason & Fam in an attacking 3.

Players like Weiman Elliason & Patterson able to drop back into midfield as needed.

I think this could absolutely be the way to go. Been an advocate of that system since about, oh I don't know, August 2017!

I wonder about say Weimann-Afobe-Eliasson in a loose yet fluid front 3. Or even the mix of pressing and movement with some technical ability of Weimann-Afobe-Wells- we know Weimann can drift to the right, Wells to the left?

I'd even be interested in 4-3-1-2 with Palmer behind Wells and Afobe, or Weimann and Afobe or if fitness isn't quite there, then first up Weimann and Wells- I could see that working quite well too.

[Mr Popodopolous]

7 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

No it was home so might have been last season on loan. 

Yes it is less common for sure. To play good football generally teams have one up top and even they often drop back into midfield.

Wondered if it was August? We played not too bad in that one on opening day, despite the 3-1 loss- thought 2-1 or 3-2 might have been fairer, can't remember if we'd signed him permanently by that stage- thought we had though.

[Robin-hugh-blind]

                         Bentley

Hunt      Kala's.      Baker.      Dsilva

                    Nag.    Smith

Ellison.            Palmer             Pato

                      Afobe

For me. Set up to counter. I'd expect Adobe to hold for Ellison, palmer and pato. With the 3 of them constantly rotating

[Robin-hugh-blind]

4 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Like that team. Would prefer Maenpaa and Pereira but not much in it either way

Yeah agree with hunt/Pereira. I think p is the better defender, but hunt works better going forward. By playing the one CF I'd be happier with more attack minded of the two. I pick Bentley for his fast distribution. But certainly wouldn't lose sleep either way. Overall, we just have to find a place for Ellison right

[Bainsey]

                          Bentley

Pereira         Kalas         Baker    DaSilva

                 Smith         Massengo

Weimann        Palmer             Eliasson

                        Diedhiou

[mozo]

So I'm going to break ranks here a tad and keep it real to the old school...

I'm going 4-4-2. There, I said it. Nobody likes it anymore but in my eyes, it's still a sexy formation. 

Forget your diamonds, false 9s, Christmas trees and wing backs. And I'm not going narrow wide men either.

So I'm going Elliasson wide right. O'Dowda on the left. They're allowed to swap sides, but that's as progressive as it gets.

I've Wells and Afobe up top and the wingers have to use their guile to feed them with chances.

Smith (or Nagy) can do the dirty work in midfield with wonderkid Massengo in a box to box role.

This means Palmer continues to be cameo fodder, and Pato, Weimann and Fam warm the bench too.

That's Brexit Britain football for you, but it might just work.

[Lew-T]

On 06/06/2020 at 14:13, Charlie0016 said:

how people aren’t putting Eliasson in the squad is beyond me . He needs to start 

He’ll only play if Fam is on the pitch. I like Eliasson, he’s had a good season but there’s something about about him that I can’t work out. 
 

I just don’t see him making it any further than City. 

[Davefevs]

24 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

He’ll only play if Fam is on the pitch. I like Eliasson, he’s had a good season but there’s something about about him that I can’t work out. 
 

I just don’t see him making it any further than City. 

He can’t defend, he poor off the ball, whether City are in possession or out of possession.

He’s bloody good when he has the ball.

Hunt has assisted Diédhiou as many times as Eliasson has.  Eliasson has assisted Weimann as many times (3) and as many headers (2) also.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Eliasson and Diedhiou- not sure it's so necessary IMO.

Not if LJ is creative with bhis tactics- the obvious is think Eliasson winger-cross-big man-Diedhiou. Football.

Eliasson-Weimann combo as mentioned above by @Davefevs is interesting for sure- I remember the openign day, Eliasson-Weimann-Goal! In that, it wasn't a cross from wide but he had drifted inside- I remember watching all of Eliasson's assists earlier this season, and it does suggest he has more to his game- to me anyway- than the orthodox winger.

Plus the fact Weimann can go central and pull wider- just gives us something more in the way of options IMO.

Would be interested in a notional Weimann-Afobe-Eliasson front 3- with a genuine midfield 3 behind.

Something like:

   Smith Nagy Massengo

 Weimann Afobe Eliasson

In certain phases, that could be something like:

  Smith Nagy Massengo 

Weimann                          Eliasson

                   Afobe

Then in certain phases a bona fide 4-5-1, with Weimann and Eliasson dropping back to wider midfielders- form that barrier. If you had Brownhill still that could be even better, more versatile tactically. Of course if we worry about Afobe and his fitness, Wells is more than capable I think. Not so keen on Diedhiou starting though, think we have a better all-round game without him. Good option to have of course and in certain games why not but beyond that...

Just for the sake of argument though, if we still had Brownhill?

               Smith Nagy Massengo

Brownhill                                 Eliasson

                   Weimann

In some phases.

In others, you can go strikerless- maybe freeing up Brownhill a bit- though this would have been a medium term idea, given his goal potential he has displayed at times.

                 Smith Nagy Massengo

Weimann                                          Eliasson

                      Brownhill

That last one is the least or would have been the least feasible perhaps but the idea is control midfield or compete in it with that 3, then Weimann's intense workrate and Eliasson's ability to pull wide can disrupt defence- Brownhill maybe able to burst into spaces- though less feasible of course and only in specific phases- he wouldn't be playing as a striker of course, more a case of maybe taking advantage of spaces opening every now and then.

I wonder if there is a way that Palmer could take advantage in the above shape in a 4-3-2-1, to burst through into space and provide another layer of goal threat.? Like a strikerless formation. Just pondering theoretical tactical ideas tbh- but the above may have been worth trying when a) Afobe was unfit b) Wells was not with us and c) We still had Brownhill- granted Smith wasn't fit either, Rowe for him?

Regardless though, it's fair to say we have quite a few good options!

[Lew-T]

7 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Eliasson and Diedhiou- not sure it's so necessary IMO.

Not if LJ is creative with bhis tactics- the obvious is think Eliasson winger-cross-big man-Diedhiou. Football.

Eliasson-Weimann combo as mentioned above by @Davefevs is interesting for sure- I remember the openign day, Eliasson-Weimann-Goal! In that, it wasn't a cross from wide but he had drifted inside- I remember watching all of Eliasson's assists earlier this season, and it does suggest he has more to his game- to me anyway- than the orthodox winger.

Plus the fact Weimann can go central and pull wider- just gives us something more in the way of options IMO.

Would be interested in a notional Weimann-Afobe-Eliasson front 3- with a genuine midfield 3 behind.

Something like:

   Smith Nagy Massengo

 Weimann Afobe Eliasson

In certain phases, that could be something like:

  Smith Nagy Massengo 

Weimann                          Eliasson

                   Afobe

Then in certain phases a bona fide 4-5-1, with Weimann and Eliasson dropping back to wider midfielders- form that barrier. If you had Brownhill still that could be even better, more versatile tactically. Of course if we worry about Afobe and his fitness, Wells is more than capable I think. Not so keen on Diedhiou starting though, think we have a better all-round game without him. Good option to have of course and in certain games why not but beyond that...

Just for the sake of argument though, if we still had Brownhill?

               Smith Nagy Massengo

Brownhill                                 Eliasson

                   Weimann

In some phases.

In others, you can go strikerless- maybe freeing up Brownhill a bit- though this would have been a medium term idea, given his goal potential he has displayed at times.

                 Smith Nagy Massengo

Weimann                                          Eliasson

                      Brownhill

That last one is the least or would have been the least feasible perhaps but the idea is control midfield or compete in it with that 3, then Weimann's intense workrate and Eliasson's ability to pull wide can disrupt defence- Brownhill maybe able to burst into spaces- though less feasible of course and only in specific phases- he wouldn't be playing as a striker of course, more a case of maybe taking advantage of spaces opening every now and then.

I wonder if there is a way that Palmer could take advantage in the above shape in a 4-3-2-1, to burst through into space and provide another layer of goal threat.? Like a strikerless formation. Just pondering theoretical tactical ideas tbh- but the above may have been worth trying when a) Afobe was unfit b) Wells was not with us and c) We still had Brownhill- granted Smith wasn't fit either, Rowe for him?

Regardless though, it's fair to say we have quite a few good options!

I’d really like to see Palmer more in these last 9 games. There’s no better time for him with the options we now have in front of him! 4-3-1-2:

 

Hunt/Pedro   Kalas      Baker     Dasilva  

         Weimann   Smith    Massengo
  
                           Palmer 
     
                Afobe                Wells

 

I really don’t mind who comes in at RB. Both very capable on their day imo. Same goes for the Goalkeeper.

Midfield is where I struggle though - I don’t particularly rate Nagy, maybe that knock has affected his performances. But I’ve put Weimann in there as he gives us something both ends of the pitch.

[Lew-T]

9 hours ago, Davefevs said:

He can’t defend, he poor off the ball, whether City are in possession or out of possession.

He’s bloody good when he has the ball.

Hunt has assisted Diédhiou as many times as Eliasson has.  Eliasson has assisted Weimann as many times (3) and as many headers (2) also.

 

For me, he’s nowhere close to that top level yet. As you say his defensive abilities need improvement but I don’t think he gets in goal scoring positions enough. 
 

He’s quite happy to receive the ball from the full back, do a couple step overs and whip the ball in - repeat. I think he needs to be more selfish with the ball and become more ruthless for him to reach the top level. 
 

 

 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Lew-T said:

I’d really like to see Palmer more in these last 9 games. There’s no better time for him with the options we now have in front of him! 4-3-1-2:

 

Hunt/Pedro   Kalas      Baker     Dasilva  

         Weimann   Smith    Massengo
  
                           Palmer 
     
                Afobe                Wells

 

I really don’t mind who comes in at RB. Both very capable on their day imo. Same goes for the Goalkeeper.

Midfield is where I struggle though - I don’t particularly rate Nagy, maybe that knock has affected his performances. But I’ve put Weimann in there as he gives us something both ends of the pitch.

Mentioned by LJ that Weimann was initially training with the midfield unit when they were still coming into training in small groups.

I really can’t pick the team I think LJ will pick.  The 4411 he picked v Saints had Rowe at LB (Dasilva played the later periods), so I’m not reading tonnes into that.

Everyone will be keeping a beady eye out for Wells and Weimann in the training videos!!

[mozo]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Mentioned by LJ that Weimann was initially training with the midfield unit when they were still coming into training in small groups.

I really can’t pick the team I think LJ will pick.  The 4411 he picked v Saints had Rowe at LB (Dasilva played the later periods), so I’m not reading tonnes into that.

Everyone will be keeping a beady eye out for Wells and Weimann in the training videos!!

And there you have it, the 2020-21 season encapsulated in a single sentence...

[Lrrr]

442 could see us going Wells/Afobe, by all accounts Wells likes to drop deeper and connect with play in the build up, Afobe can stay higher on the shoulder to keep defensive line deeper affording Wells more space, Wells can then make runs between FB's and CB's in space after Afobe drags players creating holes.

[OldlandReddies]

Is Wells fit? Someone said he didn't feature v Southampton?

[mozo]

1 hour ago, mozo said:

And there you have it, the 2020-21 season encapsulated in a single sentence...

You gave me a laugh @Davefevs but I got my dates wrong didn't I! All about the delivery 

[REDOXO]

Depends on who is fit and sharp in training. If everyone is fit and sharp he will start Afobe and that means Kasey Palmer starts. 
 

Bentley did his chances no good the other day, however I still think he will start. 
 

Smith will be in because he always will be under LJ. 

KALAS is a shoe in. The rest who knows. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

10 hours ago, Lew-T said:

I’d really like to see Palmer more in these last 9 games. There’s no better time for him with the options we now have in front of him! 4-3-1-2:

 

Hunt/Pedro   Kalas      Baker     Dasilva  

         Weimann   Smith    Massengo
  
                           Palmer 
     
                Afobe                Wells

 

I really don’t mind who comes in at RB. Both very capable on their day imo. Same goes for the Goalkeeper.

Midfield is where I struggle though - I don’t particularly rate Nagy, maybe that knock has affected his performances. But I’ve put Weimann in there as he gives us something both ends of the pitch.

Weimann in a CM 3 is certainly a bold call! I suppose his energy would be useful- if he still breaks forward he could maybe chip in a few goals from that position, can pull right in certain phases too- maybe to help out Hunt/Pereira when required.

[Davefevs]

LJ has previously said they’d look at multiple coaches for away games.  Guess that’s a no-no based on the EFL rules:

[daored]

4 hours ago, REDOXO said:

Depends on who is fit and sharp in training. If everyone is fit and sharp he will start Afobe and that means Kasey Palmer starts. 
 

Bentley did his chances no good the other day, however I still think he will start. 
 

Smith will be in because he always will be under LJ. 

KALAS is a shoe in. The rest who knows. 

 

5 hours ago, hodge said:

442 could see us going Wells/Afobe, by all accounts Wells likes to drop deeper and connect with play in the build up, Afobe can stay higher on the shoulder to keep defensive line deeper affording Wells more space, Wells can then make runs between FB's and CB's in space after Afobe drags players creating holes.

I wonder if wells will play in the 10 position and be the link between midfield and attack allowing us to play a 4 -4-1-1

[redpole]

Looks like it couple be 4-2-3-1 judging on today’s game with a team looking like.

                 Maenpaa

pereira Kalas Baker DaSilva

         Smith  Massengo

elliasson   Patterson   O’Dowda

                  Diedhiou 

[Mr Popodopolous]

I see that team having tactical flaws but also opportunity.

Been out most of the day- we played today did we?

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

He did play there away at Wigan. Thought it worked well. Got moved back there after Wigan were dominating us. After that we looked far more in control.

Interesting that LJ said how excited he is by the 5 strikers we have. Wells, Afobe, Diehiou, Watkins and Palmer.

He then said Weimann is training with the midfielders. Does that mean as a right winger or does LJ have a new role for Weimann I wonder.

Watkins and Palmer as strikers is an interesting take by LJ! I still wonder if the latter could burst into space as some kind of false 9, in certain situations.

Right winger or striker seems binary, to me- LJ can be both a tinkerman and yet binary sometimes in the selections- how about a wide right midfielder or a right wide striker.

At Wigan we generally were dominated- maybe less so with changes, but we were in a number of ways.

A reminder...this is zero blueprint moving forward- or shouldn't be. Now Wigan's performances have often belied results but come on!

https://www.skysports.com/football/wigan-vs-bristol-c/stats/409671

[Lrrr]

33 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

LJ has previously said they’d look at multiple coaches for away games.  Guess that’s a no-no based on the EFL rules:

Can go on public transport but not hire extra coaches....

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Well Watkins up top away at Cardiff and Barnsley really impressed me. 

Palmer seems more comfortable coming quite deep. Which makes me think of him as more of a midfielder. He doesn't seem to get in the box much.

Ah yes, good shout- had missed Barnsley away but Cardiff I do remember him doing well- had slightly forgotten though.

I just don't see him as ideal for a 3 personally- in terms of the control, for the good of the team it hasn't necessarily been evident- attacking mid perhaps, coming back- well maybe he'll develop into it but not now for me.

[mozo]

If it is indeed true that Weimann is a bit Coviddy, and Wells perhaps our of action too, it would clear the way for Johnson to either use the Elliasson/Diedhiou combo, or the Palmer/Afobe duo.

I'm trying to think like Lee Johnson now and I reckon he starts the game cautious, knowing he can make big changes 2nd half. 

Cautious LJ might fancy a bit of Pato and Watkins in a 5 man midfield that has Palmer feeding Afobe. 

That's my cheeky take.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Eliasson-Diedhiou- is it even thatr effective? Eliasson-Weimann has yielded 3 assists as Dave showed and offers greater footballing possibilities IMO.

However thinking like LJ, agree- I could see this kind of thing that you suggest. LJ thinking as usual will see us miss the playoffs I think but that's another debate!

[YorkshireSection]

On 13/06/2020 at 15:56, JonDolman said:

I saw Palmer clips the other day against Leeds and although he was sloppy at times, he did give Philips some real problems. Shows how much talent he has as Philips is probably a good prem player sort of standard.

Yeah I am more of a fan of an extra body in midfield like you. But I do think 442 can work too. It certainly works for some teams. 

I was hoping for the early season look to the team now Afobe is back but maybe LJ i going with something else. Lets see what happens.

 

I don't know if Wells is injured, but I can't imagine him not playing Wells and Afobe if fit.

If he is injured then surely either Pato or Palmer could play behind Afobe.

I wasn't sure if Watkins was up top or just drifted in from the right side in those clips. Well I like him in either position to be honest. Really would not mind Marley starting as he's a handful imo.

I really hope that he plays Afobe and Wells and doesn't try some "wacky" partnership of say Watkins and Wiemann for example. Personally I see him playing Fam for his defensive attributes.

[YorkshireSection]

1 hour ago, mozo said:

If it is indeed true that Weimann is a bit Coviddy, and Wells perhaps our of action too, it would clear the way for Johnson to either use the Elliasson/Diedhiou combo, or the Palmer/Afobe duo.

I'm trying to think like Lee Johnson now and I reckon he starts the game cautious, knowing he can make big changes 2nd half. 

Cautious LJ might fancy a bit of Pato and Watkins in a 5 man midfield that has Palmer feeding Afobe. 

That's my cheeky take.

I too have an awful feeling that we are about to see the LJ tombola wheeled out!

[Mr Popodopolous]

Here's one though. Not so much tombola but a bit like what @mozo said with Palmer behind Afobe and a 3 man midfield. 

GK

Back 3

Periera or Hunt, genuine 3 man CM midfield and Dasilva.  

Palmer

Afobe

3-5-1-1.

Bit like Sheffield United two years back with Brooks behind Sharp or Clarke. That was fairly effective and also avoided the risk of being swamped in CM. Of course a big factor was Sheffield United an their attacking overlapping CBs something we don't have right now- this might make us more vulnerable to Wing backs either being overcome with a 2 v 1 ie overloaded, pinned back or simply restricted thereby severely impeding our attacking options.

A second reservation I might have would be Williams. He isn't the quickest- hasn't been for some time. CBs who are 36 in late August as IIRC he is, aren't really conducive to a high line or even a medium one!

[YorkshireSection]

We have the squad to  reach the play offs, no doubt. 

If we fail to achieve a top 6 position in the place where we are in now, Id seriously have a look at the management/coaching set up.

[Mr Popodopolous]

The team that Redpole suggested certainly sounds quite a plausible one knowing LJ.

14 hours ago, Lew-T said:

For me, he’s nowhere close to that top level yet. As you say his defensive abilities need improvement but I don’t think he gets in goal scoring positions enough. 
 

He’s quite happy to receive the ball from the full back, do a couple step overs and whip the ball in - repeat. I think he needs to be more selfish with the ball and become more ruthless for him to reach the top level. 
 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7ANtT0Tm5g

Think he has more strings to his bow tbh.

08:52 on here, shows him coming inside- laying off to Weimann and drifting back in centrally- Weimann scores. Not long before it also shows Eliasson-Diedhiou more orthodox- stepovers as you say. Was only a consolation goal but shows he is- or perhaps more accurately can be- more than the typical winger.

I remember watching all his assists this season earlier in the season- think there was a bit of variety.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Also just found online, might watch it back to see what I can glean tactically- City v Leeds from the opening day.

For anyone who is interested.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Watched the first 26 mins so far. Paused it there, as it coincided with the opener. A few observations thusfar- by no means all but a few:

1. Actually quite competitive in the first half of that. Not always through fair means but competitive- winning 2nd balls, pressing high on Casilla when we got the chance.
2. Had some nice spells of possession too- though Leeds surely had more overall.
3. Early on, maybe first 10-15 mins there didn't appear to be a huge amount of chances either way. A number of fouls, was quite bitty I thought- not really flowing for either side, consistently.
4. 22 mins in, 23 mins in- you  could see us visibly losing midfield, coming second best in central areas- what was also interesting though prior to this in our defensive third we had quite a few but didn't make best use of them- one that stands out is that think we had 5-6 in there yet ended up conceding a corner! From about halfway into this half though, it was becoming clearer. Visibly Leeds were taking control in these areas- what was also apparent was that their players taken as a whole were better at drifting in and out- not least e.g. for the goal- could see Harrison doing so in the buildup, think Douglas too came inside- and Hernandez of course is and has been capable in his time of playing as a winger, a wide midfielder or a CAM! The latter he perhaps showed with the goal. Arguably, though perhaps less of a factor, Forshaw's little pass in the buildup showed the importance of that extra man in there.
5. Leeds were rather good at switching play, I have to say!
6. Palmer as a CM? Dunno- have to say! Not sure I would, not even in a 3. Don't think he does enough  to justify it or perhaps more accurately is a sufficently natural fit for that.

Taking from that and despite Leeds' excellence, I think we can learn that:

• Palmer as a CM, even in a 3- can be quite ropey.
• We are susceptible or can be to being outnumbered in there- but we have other strengths too- see Points 1 and 2. I think we need a genuine CM 3 however, but then again we aren't playing one of the top 4 every week.
• When we do have good numbers in the centre- see the bit in point 3 about conceding arguably a fairly needless corner- we don't always make the best use of them. I'd have thought you can spring a quick break from there for example- maybe not that specific moment but that general scenario. Arguably should be clearing it to a more favourable position however!

[Phileas Fogg]

It all feels a bit strange and the expectations from fans don't feel quite the same. This may all change when things officially 'kick off' but to me people seem fairly nonchalant about the restart.

I think because of this Johnson has an opportunity to be quite creative and innovative with his lineup. If possible Afobe and Wells should start together, when fit that's one of the best front 2's in the league in my opinion.

I'd really like to see Palmer AND Eliasson start but I can't think of a way this can happen which doesn't totally unbalance the team. 

[Son of Fred]

11 hours ago, YorkshireSection said:

I too have an awful feeling that we are about to see the LJ tombola wheeled out!

Lee is like the children of today..

Too many options!

I also fear the worst............

[1960maaan]

On 13/06/2020 at 10:08, JonDolman said:

Yep. And the more options it seems can cause LJ more problems. 

We have a fantastic depth to our squad imo. And this should only a be a good thing.

I just hope LJ can find the right balance to get the best out of our key players. 

If we manage to look solid without the ball, and have Afobe and Wells playing to their best and scoring goals then playoffs can surely be realistic.

What I think may happen is LJ changes things too much and we don't get the momentum to win enough games to make playoffs.

Absolutely.

Interesting reading through this thread, I can always find a reason to nit pick someones selection, much harder to come up with a strong , balanced side. 
I even tried looking at it another way, who is a "must start". Even that is not 100% for many.

Keeper? I was calling fo NM to be number one for a few weeks before the break, started last 2 games but Bents was clearly brought in to be No.1. Not straight forward.

Defence?  Kalas and DaSilva probably , but arguments for all the rest to be given a shirt. Makes it even harder when you think we don't even know what formation it is likely to be.

Midfield?  Well, Korey but who else. Again formation would help, but even then, we are short of a genuine ball winner for a DMF spot, we are making do. Good technical players, lots of talent but strength/solidity is lacking a bit.

Strikers? Wells has to start surely. Apart from that, Afobe (looked impressive, but long time without competitive football), Fam (harsh dropping him possibly), Weimann (probably out of contention if rumours are true that he is the positive test), Eliasson/KP/Paterson ( I only see one from 3 in the XI)

So (and I know it's just my opinion ), as far as I can see we have 4 starters , and no system.

Next, I suppose you have to consider attitude;
                                      Being 7th, we are in with a shout. Add to that the anomalies that the Bundesliga has thrown up. Many more away wins. Not sure if that will benefit us or not, could the lack of decanting voices at home help? Could we be even better away?
I really think things could be cagy over the next 2 games, that could see us set up with a genuine MF3, but then that's not usually LJ's way. Maybe the 4-2-3-1 , with more defence minded players in the 3. Maybe a 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1, with someone like Rowe/Dasilve and Hunt/Pereira filling the WMF roles. Though that system may allow NE or COD to come in.

I doubt there has ever been a time where it's been hared to pick a side at City.

Just another little one to throw in, Watkins has to be in contention. Strength and an edge that could help, thought he was great at Barnsley and Cardiff, could definitely do that WMF role. 

So after all that my conclusion is, I've not got a clue what team or formation we will adopt Saturday. But I think the game will go a long way in deciding whether we are going for the Playoffs, or just seeing the season out. 

[Davefevs]

A week ago I was happy with my 4132, certainly in personnel, but once you start seeing LJ’s team v Saints you start reflecting on other factors...including opposition.

We don’t have any crap players who are gonna start and get universal moaning, we do have lots of players who some like, some don’t.

Blackburn usually play 4231, but when they don’t have the ball, the midfield really press the central midfield receivers.  I think we will try and miss out Smith and his partner (Massengo or Nagy), and hit Diedhiou and Wells (or Afobe).

The more I think about it the more I think LJ will go 442.

So I’m now thinking:

GK: Maenpaa (or Bentley - I’d go Niki but no real qualms over either)

RB: Pereira

CB: Kalas

CB: Baker (or Benkovic)

LB: Dasilva 

RM: Watkins (or Eliasson or O’Dowda) - I pick Marley for his physicality

CM: Smith (c)

CM: Massengo

LM: Paterson

ST: Wells

ST: Diedhiou

Subs: Bentley, Hunt, Benkovic, Vyner (club), Palmer, Nagy, Eliasson, Afobe, O’Dowda

Not kitted up / not travelling: Wollacott, Rowe, Williams, Weimann (Covid?), Henriksen

Shows what a tough job LJ has when you look at who might not even travel!

[Davefevs]

15 hours ago, Davefevs said:

LJ has previously said they’d look at multiple coaches for away games.  Guess that’s a no-no based on the EFL rules:

Found another page, looks like coaches are ok.

 

[JamboBCFC]

Bentley

Pereira Kalas Baker Dasilva 

Smith Massengo

Paterson Palmer Eliasson 

Wells 

 

For me wells did well at QPR up top on his own when I saw him so thought with Palmer/Pato and Eliasson behind he should get some decent service. Fully expect the team to look nothing like this though!

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

A week ago I was happy with my 4132, certainly in personnel, but once you start seeing LJ’s team v Saints you start reflecting on other factors...including opposition.

We don’t have any crap players who are gonna start and get universal moaning, we do have lots of players who some like, some don’t.

Blackburn usually play 4231, but when they don’t have the ball, the midfield really press the central midfield receivers.  I think we will try and miss out Smith and his partner (Massengo or Nagy), and hit Diedhiou and Wells (or Afobe).

The more I think about it the more I think LJ will go 442.

So I’m now thinking:

GK: Maenpaa (or Bentley - I’d go Niki but no real qualms over either)

RB: Pereira

CB: Kalas

CB: Baker (or Benkovic)

LB: Dasilva 

RM: Watkins (or Eliasson or O’Dowda) - I pick Marley for his physicality

CM: Smith (c)

CM: Massengo

LM: Paterson

ST: Wells

ST: Diedhiou

Subs: Bentley, Hunt, Benkovic, Vyner (club), Palmer, Nagy, Eliasson, Afobe, O’Dowda

Not kitted up / not travelling: Wollacott, Rowe, Williams, Weimann (Covid?), Henriksen

Shows what a tough job LJ has when you look at who might not even travel!

Think O’Dowda will definitely start, Bentley, too (though we both know who we would pick in goal).

Henriksen seems to be completely out of favour otherwise it is possible to still make a case for any of those not included in your non travelling party being in the 20 on duty, Wollacott because he would have to be if Vyner isn’t, Rowe has a lot of experience & versatility & Williams because he is ideal if we are holding on to a lead.

[OldlandReddies]

27 minutes ago, JamboBCFC said:

Bentley

Pereira Kalas Baker Dasilva 

Smith Massengo

Paterson Palmer Eliasson 

Wells 

 

For me wells did well at QPR up top on his own when I saw him so thought with Palmer/Pato and Eliasson behind he should get some decent service. Fully expect the team to look nothing like this though!

Wells had a nightmare against QPR. Passed to them a number of times and missed a sitter. Thankfully he's proved he's quality after that debut.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Think O’Dowda will definitely start, Bentley, too (though we both know who we would pick in goal).

Henriksen seems to be completely out of favour otherwise it is possible to still make a case for any of those not included in your non travelling party being in the 20 on duty, Wollacott because he would have to be if Vyner isn’t, Rowe has a lot of experience & versatility & Williams because he is ideal if we are holding on to a lead.

I’d rather O’Dowda than Eliasson if I’m being honest, so if not Watkins in my line-up, then Callum.

His biggest asset for me is the ability to travel with the ball when in space.

From the Bundesliga games I’ve watched, games have looked a bit stretched / open, and I think that would suit Callum the most out of all of our squad.

[JamboBCFC]

53 minutes ago, OldlandReddies said:

Wells had a nightmare against QPR. Passed to them a number of times and missed a sitter. Thankfully he's proved he's quality after that debut.

I meant when he was actually playing for them mate!

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

A week ago I was happy with my 4132, certainly in personnel, but once you start seeing LJ’s team v Saints you start reflecting on other factors...including opposition.

We don’t have any crap players who are gonna start and get universal moaning, we do have lots of players who some like, some don’t.

Blackburn usually play 4231, but when they don’t have the ball, the midfield really press the central midfield receivers.  I think we will try and miss out Smith and his partner (Massengo or Nagy), and hit Diedhiou and Wells (or Afobe).

The more I think about it the more I think LJ will go 442.

So I’m now thinking:

GK: Maenpaa (or Bentley - I’d go Niki but no real qualms over either)

RB: Pereira

CB: Kalas

CB: Baker (or Benkovic)

LB: Dasilva 

RM: Watkins (or Eliasson or O’Dowda) - I pick Marley for his physicality

CM: Smith (c)

CM: Massengo

LM: Paterson

ST: Wells

ST: Diedhiou

Subs: Bentley, Hunt, Benkovic, Vyner (club), Palmer, Nagy, Eliasson, Afobe, O’Dowda

Not kitted up / not travelling: Wollacott, Rowe, Williams, Weimann (Covid?), Henriksen

Shows what a tough job LJ has when you look at who might not even travel!

Good post, agree too about Blackburn 4-2-3-1.

Think what could be important in that midfield battle is if Holtby is fit again- tactically speaking. As I recall going onto that game, they had quite a few injuries and it seemed an ideal time to face them! Dack aside, wouldn't surprise me if most have cleared up. Dack missing is certainly positive.

As you say, 4-2-3-1. Not entirely sure how they'll line up. Hell they've even used Downing at LB before!

Assuming no curveball like that, I'd guess something like- unsure about order of LCM, RCM, ROB, LCB etc:

GK Walton 

RB Nyambe

CB Lenihan

CB Adarabioyo

LB Williams

CM Travis

CM Evans

RM Rothwell

CAM Holtby

LM Downing

ST Armstrong

Tbh this is just a rough possible template thrown together. Quite possibly would fitness and Covid permitting see quite a few of these!

Fear I had when I was wondering about Palmer in a central 3 of a 4-2-3-1 was Holtby winning that duel! I think he's better suited to coming back in to form a 3 than Palmer.

Not so much a 3 v 2 as a 3 v 2.5 or 2.5 v 2. Now I fear for us in a 4-4-2- numerical advantage isnt everything but I wonder how we might avoid losing the midfield. Could Wells or Paterson drop far enough back?

[Davefevs]

Rumour is Williams isn’t fit.  Downing to LB, Gallagher as a wide forward.

[Davefevs]

Just to jog our memories, here is the starting eleven v Fulham:

                         Mäenpää

    Pereira / Kalas / Baker / Dasilva

Paterson / Smith / Massengo / O’Dowda

              Weimann / Wells

[1960maaan]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Think O’Dowda will definitely start, Bentley, too (though we both know who we would pick in goal).

Henriksen seems to be completely out of favour otherwise it is possible to still make a case for any of those not included in your non travelling party being in the 20 on duty, Wollacott because he would have to be if Vyner isn’t, Rowe has a lot of experience & versatility & Williams because he is ideal if we are holding on to a lead.

Really odd one that, not sure what's gone on (anyone?), could be he hadn't been putting it in during training maybe.
I really thought that he was the missing part we needed. 

Not the first to go missing though, wonder if he'll do a Marley Watkins re-appearing act.

[1960maaan]

2 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Agree on who you say is guaratneed to start if fit.

But then with so many games, LJ may rotate quite a lot. Maybe we keep those key players in but rotate the others.

I really like Watkins. Even when many people would take the piss out of him I kept saying he is a good player. He shown that at Barnsley.

When he first came, I did question whether he had ever played football before  ........ WTF do I know.

Those couple of games he came back in for was 1) a great move by LJ 2) a shock for some of us for just how effective he could be.

[mozo]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Just to jog our memories, here is the starting eleven v Fulham:

                         Mäenpää

    Pereira / Kalas / Baker / Dasilva

Paterson / Smith / Massengo / O’Dowda

              Weimann / Wells

Perhaps we'll see similar with Palmer and Afobe up top instead.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Travis and Evans vs Smith and Massengo is a duel. Problem is, Holtby drops in and we have an issue.

OTOH, Downing at LB could be an area to exploit on two levels. Age and unnatural position! 

5 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

When he first came, I did question whether he had ever played football before  ........ WTF do I know.

Those couple of games he came back in for was 1) a great move by LJ 2) a shock for some of us for just how effective he could be.

Watkins at Barnsley was really quite decent. That year he got think it was 15, maybe somewhere between 15-20 goals and assists combined! Certainly a useful player in there.

Also worth noting that he scored early on v Blackburn and Sheffield United in 18-19. A woodwork strike away from a goal at Rotherham too in late September..

Extrapolated that's maybe 10-15 goals in a season, from a wide area. Impressive. Clearly extrapolation only goes so far but he definitely has his attributes.

[1960maaan]

29 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Travis and Evans vs Smith and Massengo is a duel. Problem is, Holtby drops in and we have an issue.

OTOH, Downing at LB could be an area to exploit on two levels. Age and unnatural position! 

Watkins at Barnsley was really quite decent. That year he got think it was 15, maybe somewhere between 15-20 goals and assists combined! Certainly a useful player in there.

Also worth noting that he scored early on v Blackburn and Sheffield United in 18-19. A woodwork strike away from a goal at Rotherham too in late September..

Extrapolated that's maybe 10-15 goals in a season, from a wide area. Impressive. Clearly extrapolation only goes so far but he definitely has his attributes.

He did seem to have a goal back, without ever looking like he was doing much. That's probably a bit unfair, but those 2 comeback games for us were excellent.

[mozo]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Travis and Evans vs Smith and Massengo is a duel. Problem is, Holtby drops in and we have an issue.

OTOH, Downing at LB could be an area to exploit on two levels. Age and unnatural position! 

Watkins at Barnsley was really quite decent. That year he got think it was 15, maybe somewhere between 15-20 goals and assists combined! Certainly a useful player in there.

Also worth noting that he scored early on v Blackburn and Sheffield United in 18-19. A woodwork strike away from a goal at Rotherham too in late September..

Extrapolated that's maybe 10-15 goals in a season, from a wide area. Impressive. Clearly extrapolation only goes so far but he definitely has his attributes.

Would you be tempted to play Elliasson right wing and tell him to tie Downing in knots? 

I would, but not sure Johnson will be so bold.

[Quedgeley Exile]

How did the teams line up yesterday??

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, mozo said:

Would you be tempted to play Elliasson right wing and tell him to tie Downing in knots? 

I would, but not sure Johnson will be so bold.

That could work...a left footer on the right maybe- he can also play on the right like you say, strangely though having had albeit a brief one, Downing's ratings at LB come in quite good! Not a given that he would be at LB either, Amari Bell can play there too I believe, but if it is Downing pinning him back might compensate for the possibility of being outnumbered in the middle!

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/18114480.downing-can-weapon-not-vulnerable-left-back/

Having said that, even targeting Downing can be a double edged sword if the above has some accuracy- he could pin back Eliasson a bit though his age would count against him in that respect.

Maybe if there was a way we could let Blackburn have the ball then expose Downing with quick break- Eliasson and DaSilva that could be another option- maybe even gain a bonus red card which would boost our chances greatly!

Apologies if already posted but increasingly liking the idea of a DaSilva-Eliasson combo on left. Worth noting though that a) They were playing at Anfield vs Liverpool and b) They (Blackburn) were using a right sided midfielder at LB to avoid injury risk to Bell. Doesn't seem to mention Downing.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/key-mans-return-weakness-out-4221503

[Mr Popodopolous]

By key man it- thankfully- doesn't mean Dack but I see some similarities in Holtby, as a replacement- guys played CL, PL Bundesliga and a few times at International level and is only 29- an excellent pedigree, dunno if he had injuries or never made the most of his ability, or if bad moves set him back?

Couple of key segments from the article:

Quote

According to our colleagues at Lancs Live, they believe that despite the trial run at Liverpool, Mowbray will likely stick with his tried-and-trusted 4-2-3-1 and pick a team along the lines of: Christian Walton; Ryan Nyambe, Darragh Lenihan, Tosin Adarabioyo, Amari’i Bell; Lewis Travis, Corry Evans; Sam Gallagher, Lewis Holtby, Stewart Downing; Adam Armstrong.

Hmm. Reduces the chance of exploiting LB if so. Don't think Bell is such an attacking threat though so...

Would have too thought it may make more sense to switch around Armstrong and Gallagher but there we go. Could that be a weak link too, to get beyond Gallagher and isolate Nyambe a bit?

Quote

Without going into granular detail on all of the six goals - and, again, we must stress this is Liverpool, they are really, really good - but there were two distinct themes running through at least four of them.

That was either purposeful through-balls in between full-back and centre-back, or building possession out wide, creating overloads and or overlaps and then getting to the byline.

Three of the six goals came from players running into space beyond defenders in wide areas before delivering low crosses into the area which were then eventually finished.

Eliasson can isolate Downing on the right- or beat him for pace at minimum., thereby opening up Bell to a 2 v 1- perhaps Hunt could target Bell drawing out a bit of space for a low cross by Eliasson? Just one possibility. Even though my first choice is Pereira, Hunt is a greater attacking threat.

Quote

However, it was clear Liverpool found a lot of joy in isolating full-backs, although it should be added that Joe Rankin-Costello (a right-footer) is a midfielder by trade and was filling in at left-back due to Mowbray not wanting to risk first-choice Bell, who had sustained a knock in training.

Helps of course when you have an inexperienced few games right sided midfielder at LB- unsure we'll be so lucky but a knock in training, maybe he will a) Be unfit or b) Rusty and again able to expolit.

Eliasson-DaSilva as a left side alternatively could target Nyambe- Gallagher in that wider area, this definitely feels a possible weak link, defensively and positionally.

[Mr Popodopolous]

On 17/06/2020 at 00:30, Mr Popodopolous said:

Watched the first 26 mins so far. Paused it there, as it coincided with the opener. A few observations thusfar- by no means all but a few:

1. Actually quite competitive in the first half of that. Not always through fair means but competitive- winning 2nd balls, pressing high on Casilla when we got the chance.
2. Had some nice spells of possession too- though Leeds surely had more overall.
3. Early on, maybe first 10-15 mins there didn't appear to be a huge amount of chances either way. A number of fouls, was quite bitty I thought- not really flowing for either side, consistently.
4. 22 mins in, 23 mins in- you  could see us visibly losing midfield, coming second best in central areas- what was also interesting though prior to this in our defensive third we had quite a few but didn't make best use of them- one that stands out is that think we had 5-6 in there yet ended up conceding a corner! From about halfway into this half though, it was becoming clearer. Visibly Leeds were taking control in these areas- what was also apparent was that their players taken as a whole were better at drifting in and out- not least e.g. for the goal- could see Harrison doing so in the buildup, think Douglas too came inside- and Hernandez of course is and has been capable in his time of playing as a winger, a wide midfielder or a CAM! The latter he perhaps showed with the goal. Arguably, though perhaps less of a factor, Forshaw's little pass in the buildup showed the importance of that extra man in there.
5. Leeds were rather good at switching play, I have to say!
6. Palmer as a CM? Dunno- have to say! Not sure I would, not even in a 3. Don't think he does enough  to justify it or perhaps more accurately is a sufficently natural fit for that.

Taking from that and despite Leeds' excellence, I think we can learn that:

• Palmer as a CM, even in a 3- can be quite ropey.
• We are susceptible or can be to being outnumbered in there- but we have other strengths too- see Points 1 and 2. I think we need a genuine CM 3 however, but then again we aren't playing one of the top 4 every week.
• When we do have good numbers in the centre- see the bit in point 3 about conceding arguably a fairly needless corner- we don't always make the best use of them. I'd have thought you can spring a quick break from there for example- maybe not that specific moment but that general scenario. Arguably should be clearing it to a more favourable position however!

Watched the rest- not a huge amount to add!

• Leeds still had the better of the centre but perhaps wasn't as big a difference as I assumed it might have been.Still saw the likes of Harrison, Hernandez drift in to good effect- Douglas on occasion too and I think Klich not averse to pulling wide.
• Palmer did alright at times v Phillips.  I mean he isn't my first choice to be the 3rd CM but maybe...still not leaning towards it though!
• O'Dowda had his moments- drifting infield and back out.
• Eliasson of course was an excellent threat off the bench- created multiple chances within 10 mins or less, including the assist. I believe he can and should drift in more than he does- wider forward type role, in due course?
• Weimann- I still wonder about him in the wider forward role. See how he took his albeit consolation goal- excellent! In from a wider position.
• Great CF performance by Bamford for Leeds, must say- as well as the goal, he held it up well, he battled, he was a nuisance indeed- he isn't the most prolific but has a lot of attributes.
• Phillips- Didn't seem to make a huge amount of tackles. Committed a couple of fouls and I think 1 tackle- maybe 2 though wasn't so sure if that was an interception or a tackle given how he stepped up.

So some possible takeaways:

• Don't actually think we played that badly, but Leeds certainly worthy winners.
• Weimann and Eliasson, I wouldn't rule out the idea of them in wide forward type roles. Additionally, if they drift in as and when appropriate, then this can create space for attack minded full backs- in the form of Hunt and DaSilva.
• Palmer- still unsure I trust him in a CM 3. Have him higher up the pitch where he can a) Do more damage and b) Where his defensive shortcomings may not be at such risk of exposure.
• Switching play- we could be better at that- question is who is our main diagonal passer. Leeds seem very useful at it.

Always quite hard vs Leeds not least as we've seen from the last 2 seasons- but I saw signs of encouragement from parts of that game despite the result.

Here's my concern- wish I had one of those coaching blackboards with diagrams and arrows that you see. 

Let's assume we go with team I've seen posted on other threads I think a couple of times:

                   Bentley

Pereira Kalas Baker DaSilva

O'Dowda Smith Massengo Paterson

              Diedhiou Wells

I know that O'Dowda can drift in and so can Paterson. However- let's assume team news is broadly accurate and Blackburn go with something like:

                  Walton                           

Nyambe Lenihan Adarabioyo Downing

             Travis Evans

     Gallagher Holtby Rothwell?

                Armstrong

1. The right attacking side for us, up vs Downing at LB in particular feels a potential opportunity for us. I fear it could be wasted a bit with Pereira-O'Dowda- that side feels a bit narrower in some ways than it could be.
2. Travis and Evans vs Smith and Massengo is a decent duel. Problem is Holtby drops back in and it's 3 v 2! Problem.
3. Paterson or O'Dowda come in to help out- suddenly that can leave full back exposed to say a quick break if someone like Holtby switches play. If it's O'Dowda, then Downing might capitalise from a quick switch of play,  If it's Paterson, then Gallagher who is perhaps better going forward might- or he might switch with Armstrong who could link with Nyambe- again a 2 v 1 issue for DaSilva! 

On the other hand if we concede the ball, ie set out to and we had say a Hunt-O'Dowda right hand side Downing would be vulnerable- absolutely vulnerable for example! Quick break potential again, or O'Dowda drifts in, Holtby drops back and suddenly the link between their attack and midfield is severely hampered as Holtby might need to be tracking O'Dowda. Quick break potential for us?

I do worry about Holtby dropping in though and us getting suddenly outnumbered and outmanouvered centrally- or a wide man having to tuck in and us opening ourselves up to a 2 v 1 or a quick break depending on who tucks in. 

Or even Wells dropping back to track Holtby for example, thereby isolating Diedhiou up top- with some aimless long balls the result.

[adamski]

On 05/06/2020 at 11:12, adamski said:

There is, indeed, quality in the squad, LJ may say he does put up a starting 11 to win, every manager would, however I question his ability to do this effectively given the resources at his disposal.

I rest my case.....sadly !