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Charlton league place at risk?

Lrrr

By Lrrr
in Football Chat

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Midred

Midred

Posted
Posted

I know that the the cases are all different but it seems to be even more obvious with the efl that you're either a big club or one that doesn't really matter. 

Derby, Sheffield Wednesday, Aston Villa, Birmingham (only deducted 9 points?) Or Wigan, Charlton or heaven help City if we were in that position, i don't think we would be given any dispensation? 

Derby and Sheffield Wednesday are going to be well into next season before the efl negotiators come to an acceptable agreement with them.

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Monkeh

Monkeh

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13 minutes ago, Midred said:

I know that the the cases are all different but it seems to be even more obvious with the efl that you're either a big club or one that doesn't really matter. 

Derby, Sheffield Wednesday, Aston Villa, Birmingham (only deducted 9 points?) Or Wigan, Charlton or heaven help City if we were in that position, i don't think we would be given any dispensation? 

Derby and Sheffield Wednesday are going to be well into next season before the efl negotiators come to an acceptable agreement with them.

Not is Rick parry gets his way it won't

Let's not forget Leeds, a massive club got punished didnt they get a 15 point deduction for enter admin twice,

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Midred

Midred

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7 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Not is Rick parry gets his way it won't

Let's not forget Leeds, a massive club got punished didnt they get a 15 point deduction for enter admin twice,

Forgotten that, was it when they were in the 3rd division? That was a while ago! Just goes to show how meaningless the ffp regulations are?

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Monkeh

Monkeh

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Just now, Midred said:

Forgotten that, was it when they were in the 3rd division? That was a while ago! Just goes to show how meaningless the ffp regulations are?

I disagree, I actually think it shows how many loop holes there has been and how much it has had to evolve,

The problem isnt just the efl's making, it's the money in the prem thats the problem,

That in turn causes owners to be reckless chasing that money, you could get a club worth 20 million get promoted to the prem and then sold for 200 millions, to people that have business at heart not the clubs best interests,

Its a whole cluster **** of issues and is hard to sort out

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22A

22A

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The comment was made on Sky  that  FFP has created a glass ceiling. Too many  clubs lack  the finance to  be able to challenge for place near the top and if they spent millions they don't have to get there, they'll be punished.

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Monkeh

Monkeh

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Posted
Just now, 22A said:

The comment was made on Sky  that  FFP has created a glass ceiling. Too many  clubs lack  the finance to  be able to challenge for place near the top and if they spent millions they don't have to get there, they'll be punished.

Yep, the only way to control things now is a salary cap, and a level playing field one too

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visitingholte

visitingholte

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4 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

I disagree, I actually think it shows how many loop holes there has been and how much it has had to evolve,

The problem isnt just the efl's making, it's the money in the prem thats the problem,

That in turn causes owners to be reckless chasing that money, you could get a club worth 20 million get promoted to the prem and then sold for 200 millions, to people that have business at heart not the clubs best interests,

Its a whole cluster **** of issues and is hard to sort out

I'm sure this discussion could move over to a financial thread. But yeah this post is exactly spot on. Most owners (including potential) see the money & riches of the premier league and dream of bringing a club up there and cashing in on that. 

Also the fit & proper test desperately needs to be revamped, we've seen several clubs in the past few years very close to teetering to the brink of administration, financial meltdown, and even liquidation.  But without there being a cap with the PL stuff (which will never happen), things will always stay the same. 

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Monkeh

Monkeh

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Posted
1 minute ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

So another club is at risk due to the incompetence of the EFL in vetting owners of football clubs. When are the EFL going to sort this out. 

Not as easy as that, the efl haven't approved the takeover due to the owner not passing said test, this is solely down to charlton this time round, not providing the proof of funds,

 

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visitingholte

visitingholte

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6 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Not as easy as that, the efl haven't approved the takeover due to the owner not passing said test, this is solely down to charlton this time round, not providing the proof of funds,

 

I thought that this was the same East Street Investments group that the EFL had ratified over last summer (or this past Jan, can't remember which)?

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Monkeh

Monkeh

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9 minutes ago, visitingholte said:

I thought that this was the same East Street Investments group that the EFL had ratified over last summer (or this past Jan, can't remember which)?

It hasnt been ratified, the efl are still waiting for proof of funds

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Yellow&Blue&Red

Yellow&Blue&Red

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I don't agree with the 'glass ceiling' comments. FFP makes it difficult for cowboy investors to come in, splash about chaotically and either cash out or, more likely, crash out. More controversially, it also makes it difficult for deep pocketed investors with good intentions to come in and quickly buy their way to the top, but i'm opposed to that too. A financial arms race where more Premier League clubs (and eventually Championship teams) are owned by oligarchs and oil producing nation states isn't what I want for our national game either.

There are two models I like: fan ownership, as per Wimbledon. Or steady ownership by a single investor, in it for the long haul and prepared to invest steadily and incrementally in the future development of the whole club (not just first team wages), as per City.

What would lead us there is good governance but i don't hold out much hope of getting that. The Premier League and EFL are just members' clubs - there to represent the interests of the participants to the greatest extent that they can mutually agree upon what those interests actually are... unsuprisingly, with so many different members and different perspectives, the outcome of those negotiations and the resulting governance structures are a muddle.

Failing good governance, which really means independent governance, what I'd like to see is the best possible self-governance. FFP and the current regs are badly flawed but they're the best we've been able to put in place so far. Gradually some of the loopholes are being closed and that's good. The worst thing we could do now is to remove or soften the regulations, for instance remove the FFP provisions. There will always be those who want less regulation, but it wouldn't be good for the fans.

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mozo

mozo

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12 minutes ago, Yellow&Blue&Red said:

I don't agree with the 'glass ceiling' comments. FFP makes it difficult for cowboy investors to come in, splash about chaotically and either cash out or, more likely, crash out. More controversially, it also makes it difficult for deep pocketed investors with good intentions to come in and quickly buy their way to the top, but i'm opposed to that too. A financial arms race where more Premier League clubs (and eventually Championship teams) are owned by oligarchs and oil producing nation states isn't what I want for our national game either.

There are two models I like: fan ownership, as per Wimbledon. Or steady ownership by a single investor, in it for the long haul and prepared to invest steadily and incrementally in the future development of the whole club (not just first team wages), as per City.

What would lead us there is good governance but i don't hold out much hope of getting that. The Premier League and EFL are just members' clubs - there to represent the interests of the participants to the greatest extent that they can mutually agree upon what those interests actually are... unsuprisingly, with so many different members and different perspectives, the outcome of those negotiations and the resulting governance structures are a muddle.

Failing good governance, which really means independent governance, what I'd like to see is the best possible self-governance. FFP and the current regs are badly flawed but they're the best we've been able to put in place so far. Gradually some of the loopholes are being closed and that's good. The worst thing we could do now is to remove or soften the regulations, for instance remove the FFP provisions. There will always be those who want less regulation, but it wouldn't be good for the fans.

Yeah the German league protects itself against the tycoons from around the world buying up Bundesliga clubs and their only issue is battling with the wealth of Bayern.

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Midred

Midred

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37 minutes ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

So another club is at risk due to the incompetence of the EFL in vetting owners of football clubs. When are the EFL going to sort this out. 

How did the present owner of Rovers pass the fit and proper test?

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

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1 hour ago, Midred said:

I know that the the cases are all different but it seems to be even more obvious with the efl that you're either a big club or one that doesn't really matter. 

Derby, Sheffield Wednesday, Aston Villa, Birmingham (only deducted 9 points?) Or Wigan, Charlton or heaven help City if we were in that position, i don't think we would be given any dispensation? 

Derby and Sheffield Wednesday are going to be well into next season before the efl negotiators come to an acceptable agreement with them.

Don't think it's that Birmingham got treated all that lightly. The others certainly thusfar! 

Worth noting though that Birmingham got:

*9 points

*Transfer restrictions- Post Pedersen they could only loan 5 players or sign 5 players on £12k per week max, inclusive of no fee, loan fee, signing on fee and some other conditions. 

*This contributed to them cutting wages by 1/6 in 2018/19 from 2017/18. Not so easy in just a season!

*There was also the EFL Business Plan. They had trouble renegotiating a new deal with Morrison eg. They even had trouble negotiating with youth players!

*Reset of the loss limit. Sounds easy but by reset it means a £13m target in 2018/19 and 2019/20, with reset of the prior relevant seasons to £13m. 

Can't say they had it easy tbh, and I'm a critic of them. Aston Villa, Derby, Sheffield Wednesday and maybe Reading got away with murder by comparison!

As we can see too they've got massively weakened on the pitch.

Adams- Sold.

Jota- Key creator and with some goals sold.

Bellingham- Sold.

Think Morrison was their captain and Mahoney a wideman. Neither retained.

Vassell- Sold.

Thinking they might have been learning their lesson since January/summer 2018.

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Midred

Midred

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37 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Rovers owners are flawed but much as I don't follow them seem small beer compared to situations at Bury, Charlton, Wigan etc? Unless there's something glaring I've missed!

Lack of a fit and proper ground!

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Red-Robbo

Red-Robbo

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2 hours ago, Lrrr said:

?

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/charlton-risk-expulsion-football-league-efl-demand-details-takeover-a4510536.html

 

Bloody hell. That's not the sort of consortium you want to be taking charge of your club. A property speculator who has no connections with the local area and the lawyer who used to represent Bury's owner.

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Lanterne Rouge

Lanterne Rouge

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5 hours ago, Monkeh said:

Not is Rick parry gets his way it won't

Let's not forget Leeds, a massive club got punished didnt they get a 15 point deduction for enter admin twice,

 

4 hours ago, Midred said:

Forgotten that, was it when they were in the 3rd division? That was a while ago! Just goes to show how meaningless the ffp regulations are?

The Leeds thing was actually responsible for the rules being changed IIRC. They waited until they were certain to go down before going into admin and getting the deduction which then didn`t affect anything. The rules were subsequently amended so that deductions would be applied in the next season if a club went into admin with fewer than a certain number of games left (don`t know how many that is mind). 

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