cityboy Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 Downendcity, Yes I have previously posted that Lee has played behind the front two. He played in a similar role when he was Falkirk. He played upfront with to small strikers in Owen Coyle & Colin Samuel. Those two strikers were quick and played off Lee, and also Lee would drop in behind them and play the balls up the channels, through for runs etc. That season was his most productive as he scored 19, Coyle scored 21 ( i think ) and Sammy scored 20 ( i think ). He can play as a link up man if required, and also he would gain many free kicks around the 18 yarder, although he seems to be slated for this as being lightweight. But again I am not coming on here to praise Lee, if he isnt performing then he isnt performing simple as that. The point was Robbo Gillespie and Lee were all disadvantaged last night with a young team. But who plays and doesnt play is all up to Mr B Tinnion, and if Lee isnt selected, its down to him to knuckle down and prove he deserves a starting place. But this isnt about Lee Miller, this is about Bristol City and begining successful. Ok from my point of view I would love to see City do well with Lee a main focal point of the success, but aslong as City are successful Lee wont complain either, and I am sure Miller will have some worth for City during the forthcoming season. ← This is a good post. Clearly I don't have the same level of knowledge of Mr Millers game as Whitey, but from what I saw last season the hole behind a front 2 would look like being his best position. I have thought from the first time I saw him against Notts County that he looked a very similar player to Lee Peacock in his ability to hold up the ball and set up other strikers. The difference being of course that Miller seems to be able to take players on more than Peacock could. I'm thinking that this was his problem last year, there's only room for 1 player like this upfront and Mr Wilson seemed to prefer Peacock for whatever reason, rightly or wrongly. I'm fairly confident that now Peacock's left us, and we look like playing 3 upfront, Tinman will soon give Miller a chance in this position and we'll all see the reasons why he was so highly regarded in Scotland. At the end of last season I couldn't see the way forward for BCFC, but the summer months turmoil and change have left me feeling quite positive about 04/05, and I can't help thinking that a certain Mr Miller could have quite an impact in a successful promotion campain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grannyjoy Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 Libraries have free internet access ← Public Information Announcement - thanks, but Lee is too busy working out in the Gym to go to the Library In all seriousness, Lee has never really been into computers, he's probably one of the few like this. Not being into masochism either, I think he is wise not following the Forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Casual Connoisseur Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 If he is in the gym can he try a bit of core stability and lower his freeweight repetitions and concentrate on lifting heavier weights. Lower reps higher weight will build strength and muscle a good protein shake after training will help repair the muscles and promote growth. Maybe then the wind will be less of a problem to Lee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 Public Information Announcement - thanks, but Lee is too busy working out in the Gym to go to the Library In all seriousness, Lee has never really been into computers, he's probably one of the few like this. Not being into masochism either, I think he is wise not following the Forum. ← Strangely enough my children read this out to me a few days ago. It's taken from an interview Lee gave in 'Wellred'. Question: Do you have a computer? Answer: No, I don't know how to work them! They don't interest me. I think he is wise not to read some of the stuff on here, but I hope he is being told the nicer stuff. That goes for all the players by the way. I'm sure other players do have their representitives on here but few seem brave enough to reveal themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NailseaRed Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 Public Information Announcement - thanks, but Lee is too busy working out in the Gym to go to the Library In all seriousness, Lee has never really been into computers, he's probably one of the few like this. Not being into masochism either, I think he is wise not following the Forum. ← Very true. There are very few positive threads aimed at players on here. But a forum is about discussion, and people seem better at moaning rather than praising, not saying I'm any different, it's just the way people are. The longer and more interesting threads normally come about through someone getting their back at due to a player being put down. You'll never see a thread about congratulating a player extending to more than one page. But the players who do come on here do just need to remember this is a very small slice of the entire fanbase and obviously views on here are again limited to a percentage of the forum users not generally all of us. But I don't think forum users should be limited to just saying good things because sometimes there is actually a good point made. Just think the players need to take it with a pinch of salt if they have a browse on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitey_03 Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 Very true. There are very few positive threads aimed at players on here. But a forum is about discussion, and people seem better at moaning rather than praising, not saying I'm any different, it's just the way people are. The longer and more interesting threads normally come about through someone getting their back at due to a player being put down. You'll never see a thread about congratulating a player extending to more than one page. But the players who do come on here do just need to remember this is a very small slice of the entire fanbase and obviously views on here are again limited to a percentage of the forum users not generally all of us. But I don't think forum users should be limited to just saying good things because sometimes there is actually a good point made. Just think the players need to take it with a pinch of salt if they have a browse on here. ← Your right there. Look if I was coming on this forum and for example Lee was being praised for everything he did, and no one ever said a bad word against him then, allow it would be nice for me and Joy, it wouldnt be much fun. Sometimes you need to hear that you arent performing to allow you to grow as a footballer. The times when forum members are being critical of certain players in a controlled and well thought out manner then I have no problem with that, its the ones who think they can come on, spout off some of the most ludicrus things and think its ok because the players get paid to take that abuse, no no thats not true. As Joy has said Lee is his own biggest critic, no one needs to tell Lee when he isnt performing because he knows it himself. Thats where having fans who know and believe you can do better give you the encouragement to keep plugging away and not the head go down really helps spur you on to start performing to your maximum. Instead some forum members see it as there duty to kick a man when he is down, which helps no one. Examples of this, Peacock not scoring, everyone ( including me ) slated him but you never heard many people ever say he wasnt trying, Lee misses at Swindon, I still read things showing people still havent let this go but many have said his reaction told the story of how much it meant to him & still people constantly blame that as the reason you didnt go up last year, Leroy being overated, one minute he is the best thing since sliced bread then he gets his chance, doesnt perform consistantly & now he is over-rated. Ask any footballer what it feels like to score infront of your packed home crowd and they will tell you its the best feeling in the world, ask him the worst feeling, he will tell you its feeling that your fans have lost confidence in you. Myself and Joy are in a unique position on hear as every post about Lee affects us, but it hasnt dampened our enthuasism for the forum in the slightest. We enjoy interacting with fans who love/hate Lee, talking to the lovers & trying to turn the haters. But thats why this forum is great, because no matter how much you try to sit on the fence, you still end up ###### someone off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NailseaRed Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 here's to hoping we don't have much to moan about this season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitey_03 Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 here's to hoping we don't have much to moan about this season ← Personally I am not a moaner, although i always seem to make other people moan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 Your right there. Look if I was coming on this forum and for example Lee was being praised for everything he did, and no one ever said a bad word against him then, allow it would be nice for me and Joy, it wouldnt be much fun. Sometimes you need to hear that you arent performing to allow you to grow as a footballer. The times when forum members are being critical of certain players in a controlled and well thought out manner then I have no problem with that, its the ones who think they can come on, spout off some of the most ludicrus things and think its ok because the players get paid to take that abuse, no no thats not true. As Joy has said Lee is his own biggest critic, no one needs to tell Lee when he isnt performing because he knows it himself. Thats where having fans who know and believe you can do better give you the encouragement to keep plugging away and not the head go down really helps spur you on to start performing to your maximum. Instead some forum members see it as there duty to kick a man when he is down, which helps no one. Examples of this, Peacock not scoring, everyone ( including me ) slated him but you never heard many people ever say he wasnt trying, Lee misses at Swindon, I still read things showing people still havent let this go but many have said his reaction told the story of how much it meant to him & still people constantly blame that as the reason you didnt go up last year, Leroy being overated, one minute he is the best thing since sliced bread then he gets his chance, doesnt perform consistantly & now he is over-rated. Ask any footballer what it feels like to score infront of your packed home crowd and they will tell you its the best feeling in the world, ask him the worst feeling, he will tell you its feeling that your fans have lost confidence in you. Myself and Joy are in a unique position on hear as every post about Lee affects us, but it hasnt dampened our enthuasism for the forum in the slightest. We enjoy interacting with fans who love/hate Lee, talking to the lovers & trying to turn the haters. But thats why this forum is great, because no matter how much you try to sit on the fence, you still end up ###### someone off ← Whitey, I looked back on the website history to just on a year ago when Lee joined City. It said that he and the family were given a tour and taken to dinner by Brian Tinnion, who convinced him that City offered a better chance than other clubs who were after him. As Tinnion has been a regular participant on the MB I wonder whether he also warned Lee about the type of comment he could expect from City fans on this MB? If so, then that would explain why Lee "chose" not to get a computer so he doesn't have to subject himself to crticism and abuse from some elements of our fann base! I am sure fans at other clubs can be equelly harsh about their players, but in my 30+ years as a City fan, I don't think there can be many fans as fickle as ours are. I remember hearing the same sort of comments 30 years ago about the team that got promotion into the old first division - if they could get stick then what chance have a team got trying to get out of the old 3 rd division! Yes, we neeed to have debate about issues, team selection and players performance but too often it gets completely negative, overly personal and even abusive. I've noticed in the last couple of weeks that posts from you and Grannyjoy seem to have become a bit more defensive about Lee, in response to some of the stupid postings about Lee's performance, strength, physique and ability, which is a shame, as I've always felt that you've been able to remain objective about his performance, despite your friendship. For goodness sake, we will probably have some idiot on here saying that Lee isn't strong enough becasue of Grannyjoy's home cooking (not enough salt in the porridge?)I hope neither of you is in any way alienated from posting because a minority of fans are willing to express over the top views and opinions in such a personal way. I've expressed my view before. I rate Lee highly and hope he has a good future with us and can show what he's capable of. I think he was in Peacock's shadow too much last year but at the moment has a bit to do to prove himself worthy of a starting place in Tinnion's eyes, as 2/3 other frowards are just ahead in the queue. If he's the battler I think he is then he will persevere and become a regular in the team and a consistant performer for us. Just tell him to stick with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Casual Connoisseur Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 There is nothing stupid about fans questioning a players strength or ability, we pay there wages and are entitled to our view. My view on Lee Miller is that he is not strong enough which impairs his footballing capability which he clearly has. A stone of extra muscle would benefit Lee immensily if he can't get his strength up then he is going to continue to be ineffective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitey_03 Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 There is nothing stupid about fans questioning a players strength or ability, we pay there wages and are entitled to our view. My view on Lee Miller is that he is not strong enough which impairs his footballing capability which he clearly has. A stone of extra muscle would benefit Lee immensily if he can't get his strength up then he is going to continue to be ineffective. ← I will agree you can question his weight strength etc if you please, but its when people begin to speculate why he isnt as strong as they, or as heavy as they like. No one has got a clue about any of the players off the pitch, unless you see them out on a night out or have a personal connection. If forum users want to question things about players, ask people who would know about it, and not just being to speculate like you know. Executedwolf, i know your feelings on Lees physical presence, but speaking from experience, I play as a forward with my team, a few years back i was a skinny forward, good feet and lighting quick. My manager pushed me in the gym to become a striker who had pace, but the physical stature to impose myself on defenders. Unfortunately, i became more physical, but lost alot of pace due to carrying around the extra body weight. Dont you think there is a chance if Lee had to bulk up to your satisfaction that he may lose some of his attributes he has now, like good feet etc?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Casual Connoisseur Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 Its a good point that you make and there are a few answers to that question. It is possible to gain strength and keep your speed if you look at a lot of athletes they are extremely strong this comes from a mixture of explosive sprint and endurance training with basic resistance and weight training plans that enclude protein high diets. You do not necessarily need to "bulk" up to gain strength it can be increased just by working in a few areas e.g core stability and balance, these attributes would let Lee hold the ball up and back off defenders with ease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grannyjoy Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 If he is in the gym can he try a bit of core stability and lower his freeweight repetitions and concentrate on lifting heavier weights. Lower reps higher weight will build strength and muscle a good protein shake after training will help repair the muscles and promote growth. Maybe then the wind will be less of a problem to Lee. ← I was going to answer this post with a funny about Lee not having a digestive (wind) problem that I am aware of but from your follow up posts I realise you are serious. This is obviously something you are into, and I respect your knowledge. As far as I am aware the Club have had someone working in this department, with all the boys , not least Lee. Lets hope that these people are doing what you are suggesting, and that we see the results improving performance in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NailseaRed Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 maybe he just needs to show a bit more aggression when someone tries to steal the ball off him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 maybe he just needs to show a bit more aggression when someone tries to steal the ball off him? ← I know what you mean but He'll probably end up getting sent off. Wasn't it him at QPR who got red carded for accidently running into somebody?! He seems to win us loads of free kicks due to him having lumps kicked out of himself though, but I would like him to dish out what he takes sometimes. I suppose that would mean dropping down to the defenders level, we have other players to do the physical stuff! Lee seems to play with intellegence, sometimes too intellegent for this division? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NailseaRed Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 Just get Butler to follow Miller round to protect him then? Butler can just climb on their back whenever they get near him! Sure the ref won't mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 I was going to answer this post with a funny about Lee not having a digestive (wind) problem that I am aware of but from your follow up posts I realise you are serious. This is obviously something you are into, and I respect your knowledge. As far as I am aware the Club have had someone working in this department, with all the boys , not least Lee. Lets hope that these people are doing what you are suggesting, and that we see the results improving performance in the future. ← Grannyjoy, If Lee still has a wind problem then perhaps you need to instruct the physiotherapy team how to burp him properly over the shoulder - did that work for him when he was a baby? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zookeeper Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 Its a good point that you make and there are a few answers to that question. It is possible to gain strength and keep your speed if you look at a lot of athletes they are extremely strong this comes from a mixture of explosive sprint and endurance training with basic resistance and weight training plans that enclude protein high diets. You do not necessarily need to "bulk" up to gain strength it can be increased just by working in a few areas e.g core stability and balance, these attributes would let Lee hold the ball up and back off defenders with ease. ← I think you've answered your own initial questions with this post. Yes, athletes are strong, but they lack total fitness. They are specific to their event. Yes you do not necessarily need to bulk up to gain muscular strength, but if there isn't hypertrophy we will not see any change in his size. He may be able to lift a heavier weight now but unless we are in the gym with him we will never know. Also he is still at an age when muscular gains can be relevtively low. High protien diets are not always a good thing. It can be argued that sufficient protein is adequate and too much only places stress on your liver. I would really imagine that the core stability is something that is drummed into them from an early age. The academy kids get taught this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Casual Connoisseur Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 I think you've answered your own initial questions with this post. Yes, athletes are strong, but they lack total fitness. They are specific to their event. Yes you do not necessarily need to bulk up to gain muscular strength, but if there isn't hypertrophy we will not see any change in his size. He may be able to lift a heavier weight now but unless we are in the gym with him we will never know. Also he is still at an age when muscular gains can be relevtively low. High protien diets are not always a good thing. It can be argued that sufficient protein is adequate and too much only places stress on your liver. I would really imagine that the core stability is something that is drummed into them from an early age. The academy kids get taught this. ← I believe that it is at Lee's age that muscle is more easily gained, the few years between your twentys and thirtys the male will have a metabolic shift and add fat easier than muscle. Too say that specialist athletes have a lack in total fitness is inacurate olympic athletes such as sprinters and long distance athletes alike train their lungs in similar fashions both also practice explosive training as well as longer endurance tested trainers. even lightweight pint sized athletes train weights etc etc Nice to hear the opinion of someone who knows his/her stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zookeeper Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 I believe that it is at Lee's age that muscle is more easily gained, the few years between your twentys and thirtys the male will have a metabolic shift and add fat easier than muscle. Too say that specialist athletes have a lack in total fitness is inacurate olympic athletes such as sprinters and long distance athletes alike train their lungs in similar fashions both also practice explosive training as well as longer endurance tested trainers. even lightweight pint sized athletes train weights etc etc Nice to hear the opinion of someone who knows his/her stuff. ← Not quite sure wether the last bit was sarcasm or not?? The part about muscle gain starting later was from a speak by Keizer of Keizer training, who spoke about the gains that he has produced from training people with substantial gains coming about from late 20's to early 30's. He also talked about the reasons why we lose strength over age. Very interesting speaker. Yes, the majority of athletes do train for all components of fitness but they also train specifically. Yes, a long distance runner will lift a few weights to gain that extra spead over the last 5 yards and yes a sprinter will do some cardio work but the majority of their workout is specific for their exercise. The amount of time they spend on each component would be very different. I guess it depends on what you believe total fitness to be. Leading us back to football, where the benefits of weight training are specific to the type of training that the player wants to perform and their role within the team. Some benefits can be to the detriment of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Casual Connoisseur Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 I was being serious actually, although I will argue the point about muscle growth and age etc. Nice to know I am not the only one who geeks out on excercise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zookeeper Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 I was being serious actually, although I will argue the point about muscle growth and age etc. Nice to know I am not the only one who geeks out on excercise. ← More of a job really! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksred Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 (peeps cautiously in...coo I aint banned anymore... ) Lets just see what these two do, on the pitch, in a competitive game, with a full-or fullish strength side around them, shall we. Neither has exactly had a generous run out yet eh? Far too Easily people forget twas Robbo, who actually got us to Baaaaaaaaaaaaaadiff, with a good goal, and the pass for the winner, and Lee got kicked all over the park at Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaadiff, and bar Colesy our best player on the diabolical day..and the attention was due to the fact he was causing Brightons defence problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desso Posted August 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 Grannyjoy Did you receive my PM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grannyjoy Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 Grannyjoy Did you receive my PM? ← Yes thanks Grumpy, and I have now replied. Must agree with Bucksred's post, lets just wait and see I was relived however as this post progressed to see some humour injected, cause lets be honest, we are all guilty of taking ourselves a little too seriously at times, especially just before the first game of the season proper. Anyway from one not so old Granny, to a not so Grumpy or Old Man, I bid you Good night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted August 6, 2004 Report Share Posted August 6, 2004 Spot on ! I'll be disappointed if Miller doesn't start on saturday and I would like to think that Roberts will get a decent amount of time on the pitch too. ← I have every hope that Tinnion will be true to his word when he says everyone is starting with a clean slate and each player will be selected on merit. This surely is a clear indication that he aknowledges that this wasn't the case previously. Therefore if a player isn't picked (obviously not everyone can play), then it is down to them to MAKE the Manager select them the next time. This is where attitude and maturity will count almost as much as ability and fitness. Certain players will suit different opposition etc, and should be used as such. From what I know from last season if a player was dropped they were not given an explanation, which was very damaging. I'm sure Tins will be very different, just by what he has said and done so far. Here's to a successful and exciting season for ALL the players and fans alike! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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