Another Steve Lansdown soliloquy

[Robbored]

Regardless of which party that’s in power the PM would have the same dilemma as Boris has.

The concern about limiting  the spread of covid by introducing the first lockdown now followed by a predictable second wave and the effect those measures have on the national economy causes huge headaches for the decision makers. It now seems that local lockdown is the way forward. Better that that mass  unemployment.

It a case of the UK being between a rock and a hard place. Covid is causing havoc globally.

[View from the Dolman]

Looks like we can add The O2 reopening at just under 25% capacity...

Quote

The O2 arena in London will welcome 4,700 socially distanced fans in December after being closed for nine months due to COVID-19.

https://www.theticketingbusiness.com/2020/10/05/live-events-return-o2-december/

 

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Regardless of which party that’s in power the PM would have the same dilemma as Boris has.

The concern about limiting  the spread of covid by introducing the first lockdown now followed by a predictable second wave and the effect those measures have on the national economy causes huge headaches for the decision makers. It now seems that local lockdown is the way forward. Better that that mass  unemployment.

It a case of the UK being between a rock and a hard place. Covid is causing havoc globally.

Same dilemma - yes.

But possible to take a completely different tack to the ignorant approach of the PM.  The NZ PM took an approach based on Public Health first....ours didn’t.  I’ll leave it there.

 

[Notbarrymanc]

24 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I get the sentiments of your post.  For me the biggest issue has been the lack of transparency re the initial “lockdown” (it wasn’t lockdown really, but that’s a a digression) and the subsequent plan to start removing lockdown and the subsequent implementation of those elements.  What we’ve been left with is a series of what appear to be inconsistent rules - a cynic might suggest based on the impact to Tory benefactors and influencers.

I sat and read the 60 page strategy doc when it first came out.  I read what each alert level meant, how it was measured.

It was a “nothing” document, full of wishy-washy stuff, written purposely in that way to avoid scrutiny / challenge.  If I’d produced that in my job, I would’ve been very disappointed in myself.

For example the gold old “R” number was used to determine whether we could move from 4 to 3.  Not only was it not well defined, when the government realised it wasn’t going low enough, they changed to using “Ri” (Rate of infection) a totally different metric.

To move to pubs opening for example (I can’t remember every bit) then a fully functioning TT&I (Track, Trace and Isolate) system had to be in place.  That TTI “solution” specifically mentioned an functioning app.  The app has only just been launched.

etc etc.

So what we’ve been left with is a number of questioning why you can go to the cinema indoors but not a football match outdoors.

This is exactly what the government want.  They want us to feel hard done way / injusticed so that they can then blame us for non-compliance.  It’s got Cummings all over it.  Create confusion, question the common-sense of the rules and rebel because it’s stupidly implemented.  Perfect.

Even today Johnson urging us to go to Cineworkd

Look at us all on here debating it.  None of us are right or wrong really.

They are playing us big time.

 

Some really good points and then a load of Tory bashing. Possibly the perfect formula for a post. Not a lot of truth in the second half IMO. You’re giving them way too much credit. Even 4d chess Cummings couldn’t orchestrate this much calamity. Unfortunately, as it is so often in dark times, the blind lead the blind and we bumble around in ignorance.

Not that a different cabinet wouldn’t have done any better than these imbeciles. Jack Hunt would have done a better job and he’s not exactly Alan Turing. 

[Robbored]

14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Same dilemma - yes.

But possible to take a completely different tack to the ignorant approach of the PM.  The NZ PM took an approach based on Public Health first....ours didn’t.  I’ll leave it there.

Yep and the government completely ignored the stats compiled by Public Health preferring to use their own stats provided by the ONS which were grossly inflated in attempt to frighten people into sticking to the rules - that seems to have failed miserably and one reason I take little notice of the government stats.

The messages coming from government are muddled and unclear and personally I think it’s ridiculous to allow Wales and Scotland to make their own covid regulations. If you live fairly close to Wales as most of do it’s bloody confusing to know where and if you needed to go over there.

[TonyTonyTony]

1 hour ago, TedsHeadIs Red said:

Maybe SL should do an additional interview that lasts less than 3 minutes and uses words of no more than two syllables. Then people like you can have the option of watching that version. The rest of us can watch the informed discussion.

Thanks. I feel so put down by your superior intellect 

 

[CyderInACan]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

This is exactly what the government want.  They want us to feel hard done way / injusticed so that they can then blame us for non-compliance.  It’s got Cummings all over it.  Create confusion, question the common-sense of the rules and rebel because it’s stupidly implemented.  Perfect.

As messy in practise as it sounds in principle. 

[NickJ]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I get the sentiments of your post.  For me the biggest issue has been the lack of transparency re the initial “lockdown” (it wasn’t lockdown really, but that’s a a digression) and the subsequent plan to start removing lockdown and the subsequent implementation of those elements.  What we’ve been left with is a series of what appear to be inconsistent rules - a cynic might suggest based on the impact to Tory benefactors and influencers.

I sat and read the 60 page strategy doc when it first came out.  I read what each alert level meant, how it was measured.

It was a “nothing” document, full of wishy-washy stuff, written purposely in that way to avoid scrutiny / challenge.  If I’d produced that in my job, I would’ve been very disappointed in myself.

For example the gold old “R” number was used to determine whether we could move from 4 to 3.  Not only was it not well defined, when the government realised it wasn’t going low enough, they changed to using “Ri” (Rate of infection) a totally different metric.

To move to pubs opening for example (I can’t remember every bit) then a fully functioning TT&I (Track, Trace and Isolate) system had to be in place.  That TTI “solution” specifically mentioned an functioning app.  The app has only just been launched.

etc etc.

So what we’ve been left with is a number of questioning why you can go to the cinema indoors but not a football match outdoors.

This is exactly what the government want.  They want us to feel hard done way / injusticed so that they can then blame us for non-compliance.  It’s got Cummings all over it.  Create confusion, question the common-sense of the rules and rebel because it’s stupidly implemented.  Perfect.

Even today Johnson urging us to go to Cineworkd

Look at us all on here debating it.  None of us are right or wrong really.

They are playing us big time.

 

I liked that and I’m a liberal Tory

[Med/MadHatter]

I just got around to watching the interview, what is Bristol Sports fascination with floating heads ( black backgrounds and black clothes being worn) maybe it's a nod towards Holly from Red Dwarf by one of the producers?

[maxjak]

There is a circus set up on the Downs and a Large outdoor pop up restaurant just across the road from it.  Yet Cinemas, Theatres and Sporting events are generally no go areas. Don't really get it?

[Peter1450]

4 hours ago, maxjak said:

There is a circus set up on the Downs and a Large outdoor pop up restaurant just across the road from it.  Yet Cinemas, Theatres and Sporting events are generally no go areas. Don't really get it?

Tubby guy with scruffy blond hair is the ringmaster........

[1960maaan]

The comparison to car accidents is an interesting one, a while ago I looked at the death rate and it was about the same as car related deaths. So, people want normal life with COVID around, does that mean you walk down the middle of the road, drive at 100 mph through the local high street? No, you take precautions. 

The problem comes from the hap hazard way the Gov implement things.
Ok to go to the Albert Hall with a thousand guests to watch Nutcracker in doors.
Ok for Smaller attendances at gigs, even though the footage from Moles showed the singer belting out the song with no mask and the crowd quite near.
Ok to fly on a plane sat next to someone inside a tube with recycled air.
Ok to mix with 30 mates to slaughter animals.

Not OK outdoor socially distanced crowd at UK sports event. This doesn't make sense to anyone!

As long as Johnson is in charge I doubt we will get a coherent sensible message.  I see fans have been let back in , in Germany. Small but significant step. Meanwhile over here the number of cock ups with Privitised track/track, useless PPE contracts , using a Free Excel spread sheet instead of a dedicated Database etc means they are to busy making excuses to make plans. 

Another thing to consider, is who gets the tickets? You will have another massive backlash when STH realise they miss out for someone they deem less worthy.
This is with us for some time, and until we find a vaccine, and then try and get everyone to use it, we will have to live with it to some extent. 

But until then no-one can explain to me how a plane is safer than an outdoor arena.

[robin_unreliant]

You can make the stadium itself as safe as you like. Most of the issues would be caused by people congregating away from the stadium before and after a match. I don't see any prospect of going into AG before the spring sadly. 

[View from the Dolman]

5 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

You can make the stadium itself as safe as you like. Most of the issues would be caused by people congregating away from the stadium before and after a match. I don't see any prospect of going into AG before the spring sadly. 

But people won't congregate outside the O2 arena?

[Notbarrymanc]

3 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said:

But people won't congregate outside the O2 arena?

No. The pubs are all inside/attached to the O2, which makes their hygiene and adherence easier to control. There’s no other pubs for miles.
 

At least that would be their argument. I don’t see much difference tbh. 

[Abraham Romanovich]

1 hour ago, 1960maaan said:

The comparison to car accidents is an interesting one, a while ago I looked at the death rate and it was about the same as car related deaths.

This comparison is incorrect 

"Statistics on reported road casualties in Great Britain for the year ending June 2019 shows there were: 1,870 reported road deaths."

ww.gov.uk › government › statistics › reported-road-cas..

to date Covid has killed 42,000 in 9 months if we are to argue the rights and wrongs of allowing crowds to congregate let's at least base the arguments on verifiable facts.

[View from the Dolman]

13 minutes ago, Notbarrymanc said:

No. The pubs are all inside/attached to the O2, which makes their hygiene and adherence easier to control. There’s no other pubs for miles.
 

At least that would be their argument. I don’t see much difference tbh. 

The pubs won't be much use if they're closing as the show ends.

[1960maaan]

12 minutes ago, Abraham Romanovich said:

This comparison is incorrect 

"Statistics on reported road casualties in Great Britain for the year ending June 2019 shows there were: 1,870 reported road deaths."

ww.gov.uk › government › statistics › reported-road-cas..

to date Covid has killed 42,000 in 9 months if we are to argue the rights and wrongs of allowing crowds to congregate let's at least base the arguments on verifiable facts.

My reply was more to those saying X amount killed on the road is about the same as COVID , we don't stop driving so we should carry on with life as normal . Which is a spurious argument, as I said , we take precautions when driving or walking to prevent accidents and so should do the same with C19.

My problem with crowds , as you would have read in my post, is they deem flights safe ( sat shoulder to shoulder in recycled air ), but out side , socially distanced isn't. Whether you think sports arenas are safe or not is not the point, it's the way they allow certain things to go ahead and not others.

EDIT:

and while I'm moaning about the Govs one rule for one another for another , the height of their hypocrisy is when rules put in place for the public and bars, don't apply to bars in the Commons . It's almost like they only care about themselves.

[maxjak]

7 hours ago, Peter1450 said:

Tubby guy with scruffy blond hair is the ringmaster........

You mean Boris is moonlighting?.............Smarmy phecker

[Mr Popodopolous]

On 05/10/2020 at 16:22, Clevedon Red said:

As you say clear as mud we can go to shopping malls, eat and drink at pubs and restaurants and go to the gym but not watch sport in a controlled environment. It’s bonkers it really is.

Just for balance, dunno about shopping malls or gyms but pubs and restaurants are controlled quite strongly- or should be. I wouldn't go in a shopping mall in these times, that's for sure.

The risk reduces somewhat when you consider:

1. Ventilation- and I mean natural ventilation, air conditioning not so much- should be a must. Doors and where possible windows open at all times.
2. Wearing masks at all times except at tables.
3. Talking of tables, that's the only way you can get service.
4. Social distancing between groups at different tables.
5. No mixing between tables.
6. The Track & Trace etc.

If done correctly and uniformly I don't see a great risk- that's the big unknown, the pivotal point though- done correctly and uniformly.