Interesting comments from DH post Brum I/V

[IAmNick]

1 minute ago, Robbored said:

Deano is referring to the lack of creativity in midfield which was so obvious today. With Walsh and Williams back in the frame in the NY the squad will have mote midfield depth.

My issue is, and I accept our injuries are particularly poor, that I feel we are forever saying "Just wait till X or Y comes back, then it'll all change!". We've been doing it for years now.

Three months later, they're back, it's still the same, and we're starry eyed looking at the next random name who's out to come in and totally change things. It's naive to think a player will come back after barely training or playing for the better part of a year and slot in to our team, system, tactics, have the right fitness levels and make some huge impact.

A big part of football is making a team more than the sum of its parts - I accept if you're missing a star player or two (and we may well be) things are tough but that's the game.

At some point the fact we're always wishing for what we don't have is a big issue for me. There is no "magic bullet" to some problems.

[AppyDAZE]

13 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Deano is referring to the lack of creativity in midfield which was so obvious today. With Walsh and Williams back in the frame in the NY the squad will have mote midfield depth.

No pressure, boys.

[Dullmoan Tone]

Dare I say it, but perhaps we are missing Pato much more than all his critics thought.

He was our creative link - we did not replicate him in today’s team.

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

Dare I say it, but perhaps we are missing Pato much more than all his critics thought.

He was our creative link - we did not replicate him in today’s team.

Good player. Full stop. Can drift in and out of games admittedly, but got that bit of quality.

[GrahamC]

9 minutes ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

Dare I say it, but perhaps we are missing Pato much more than all his critics thought.

He was our creative link - we did not replicate him in today’s team.

We are & to be honest although some on here bang on about Walsh, who is totally unproven at Championship level, Nagy has been a revelation to me.

Despite a ridiculous workload because certain others are never fit, he was excellent again today & one of very few who can say they played well.

[sh1t_ref_again]

8 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Walsh, who is totally unproven at Championship level, 

Thats what worries me, he has had a long term injury that we don't even know how long it will take to fully recover from, he looked good last season, but that was in a league below in a top end dominant team, its not given that he will be as affective in our team at this level. Many players have looked world beaters at lower levels but cannot step up.

[Tonks55]

Like others on OTIB, I'm not sure I buy the 'injuries are too blame' excuse. I have Norwich supporters as 'in laws' (we all have our cross to bear!) who say that their injury list is horrendous yet they grind out win after win by playing attacking football for 90 minutes (often winning in the last 10 minutes as with today.) Now you may say 'Yes, but Norwich have parachute payments that we cant compete with and therefore have quality in depth'. 

That is true but it means that the best we can aim for is a play off place, along with the other 22 teams. However I don't believe we are showing the ambition to clinch that one play off promotion spot left. We will not clinch that spot with a strategy that is 'Contain the opposition and try to pinch a goal' whether we are playing at home or away. Sure, you will end up with some unexpected (undeserved) victories but equally you will lose games that on paper you should win (e.g. Birmingham today!). The end result will always be mid table mediocrity, which ultimately was all that Johnson provided.

If Williams and Walsh were close to coming back AND they are the instant answer to all our problems, then our start to the season would be seen as a great platform to push on for promotion. The reality is they wont be appearing for some time. In fact, my experience tells me that when a player is injured for some time then it is more likely that they will have ongoing injury issues (often seemingly unconnected) once they are deemed fit  or that the player is an 'injury liability' anyway and cant be relied upon.

In any instance, to rely on two players that have yet to prove themselves as part of our team (Do they truly have the ability? Do they fit well with other players/our chosen approach?), then I think that it is incredibly naive management to hope/pray for their return. Lets have an approach that tries to win home games, at least, try a few youngsters and if we lose a few games then so be it - we will be in a better position next season with a squad where we know their ability rather than a squad of promising youngsters that we do not really know their ability, and remain 'one for the future' until they reach 25 years of age, and slide off out of football with unfulfilled ambitions and talent.

[ScottishRed]

1 hour ago, Alessandro said:

No excuses culture?

We've seen it before, it's fantasy land forever relying on x, y, z to return. It rarely works out like that, they return late and take time to get up to fitness.

There is still more than enough quality in this squad to see better performances than we've had recently.

4 excellent championship forwards he is not getting the best out of.

Even with injuries you've got 5/6 options for the midfield 3.

He had a window to recruit. He chose a system and now won't play it.

What happened to developing and getting the best out of the players you have?

I am afraid you are spot on the money. Dean is being found out. There is no real difference to the performances and the excuses. 

I do like the bloke, and he is way more honest than LJ, but really nothing has changed, and we needed change.

More than a bit disallutioned just now.

Bringing it back #toocosy

[petehinton]

6 minutes ago, Tonks55 said:

Like others on OTIB, I'm not sure I buy the 'injuries are too blame' excuse. I have Norwich supporters as 'in laws' (we all have our cross to bear!) who say that their injury list is horrendous yet they grind out win after win by playing attacking football for 90 minutes (often winning in the last 10 minutes as with today.) Now you may say 'Yes, but Norwich have parachute payments that we cant compete with and therefore have quality in depth'. 

That is true but it means that the best we can aim for is a play off place, along with the other 22 teams. However I don't believe we are showing the ambition to clinch that one play off promotion spot left. We will not clinch that spot with a strategy that is 'Contain the opposition and try to pinch a goal' whether we are playing at home or away. Sure, you will end up with some unexpected (undeserved) victories but equally you will lose games that on paper you should win (e.g. Birmingham today!). The end result will always be mid table mediocrity, which ultimately was all that Johnson provided.

If Williams and Walsh were close to coming back AND they are the instant answer to all our problems, then our start to the season would be seen as a great platform to push on for promotion. The reality is they wont be appearing for some time. In fact, my experience tells me that when a player is injured for some time then it is more likely that they will have ongoing injury issues (often seemingly unconnected) once they are deemed fit  or that the player is an 'injury liability' anyway and cant be relied upon.

In any instance, to rely on two players that have yet to prove themselves as part of our team (Do they truly have the ability? Do they fit well with other players/our chosen approach?), then I think that it is incredibly naive management to hope/pray for their return. Lets have an approach that tries to win home games, at least, try a few youngsters and if we lose a few games then so be it - we will be in a better position next season with a squad where we know their ability rather than a squad of promising youngsters that we do not really know their ability, and remain 'one for the future' until they reach 25 years of age, and slide off out of football with unfulfilled ambitions and talent.

Norwich started Aarons, Vrancic, Buendia, Stiepermann and Pukki today. Can’t really compare that to us. 
 

Anyone who thinks injuries aren’t a big part just want a moan tbh. Mawson, and Baker mean we’d have a totally new back 3 or 4. No Weimann, Walsh, Williams, and even Paterson and Bakinson to choose in CM. Our injuries mean we could have a totally different back line and midfield. If people don’t think that’s a contributing factor that’s a worry in itself 

[Northern Red]

I can only think that those who think he's making excuses haven't actually watched the clip, because that wasn't how it came across at all.

But then, when you're looking for any reason at all to get at him...

[cidered abroad]

2 hours ago, Robin Wood said:

Things are no different to the last manager I would just like to see us play some decent football and give somebody a hiding but we are so bloody boring we just grind teams down there is very little difference between us and the boring baskets who beat us today

Correct. Not much difference is there. Apart from DH admirably giving the youngsters a chance that LJ only did as an absolute last resort. 

We are still playing too many passes backwards. Throw in five yards from Birmingham corner flag ends up three passes later with Bentley!

The slow speed cross field passing by our defenders makes it very easy for teams to press effectively with ease. 

DH is not producing much difference to his predecessor. Over cautious tactics, very little service to the front players. It's not quite as bad as the last two seasons but the difference is marginal. Dull, safety, first halves hoping for a break in the latter stages of games.

When are City going to put the away side under real pressure in the first twenty minutes and have the match won before half time? Never?

[DT The Optimist]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Good player. Full stop. Can drift in and out of games admittedly, but got that bit of quality.

Missing Pato deserves a thread in its own right, but then again there are so many games when he is anonymous, and is often a player subbed. When on fire really good, just wished more consistent. Then if he was, he would not be in championship plying his trade. 

[old_eastender]

7 hours ago, Northern Red said:

Would people rather he'd said that there was nothing wrong with today and that's how he wants us to play?

Can't do right for doing wrong.

 

I'd have rather he owned up to making a massive tactical cock-up at HT by going 4-2-4. COD was causing problems finding space for some runs at them centrally, pushed out wide left he became a virtual spectator. After 10-15 mins it was obvious that tactical switch was not working, but Holden just persevered with it anyway. 

Also don't get why he seems to have frozen out Massengo, preferring to game time to the well past it Brunt. 

 

 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

When are City going to put the away side under real pressure in the first twenty minutes and have the match won before half time? Never?

It started off much better but the last few games have seen a definite decline.

As for your last point- doesn't tend to happen often at Championship level, or hasn't tended to this season especially!

Where this has happened, red cards for the side on the receiving end have played a role at times.

Where this has happened, early analysis suggests it might so far this season have been more prevalent with away sides- the lack of fans proving a great leveller.

[Major Isewater]

8 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I've always had this nagging feeling that it's going to go horribly wrong with Holden. I hope that's incorrect because he seems a genuinely great guy.. just can't shake this feeling that sooner or later it's all going to go wrong. 

As it does for all managers/coaches at any given time. 
Honestly I was underwhelmed by the promotion of DH to head coach but he has done really well , along with Simpson and Downing. 
In some respects he’s been lucky to get some games under his belt without the moaning dolts getting on his back. 
 

[Major Isewater]

29 minutes ago, old_eastender said:

I'd have rather he owned up to making a massive tactical cock-up at HT by going 4-2-4. COD was causing problems finding space for some runs at them centrally, pushed out wide left he became a virtual spectator. After 10-15 mins it was obvious that tactical switch was not working, but Holden just persevered with it anyway. 

Also don't get why he seems to have frozen out Massengo, preferring to game time to the well past it Brunt. 

 

 

 

We will never know all the details but maybe COD had run himself out ? 
 

We were good first half , unlucky not to score .

 Brum defended very well. 
 

Brunt delivered some good balls and played his best half for us but clearly he can’t be expected to play twice a week at his age and was only bought in as cover. 
 

We also had some good phases of play in the second but poor decision making , bad luck or good defending stopped us nicking the important first goal.

 I am disappointed by the result yesterday but overall we are not a bad side . We are not fonctioning very well in the final third and need to work on that but I have faith that it will come.

 

[Guest]

We have robbed a few games this season, so far, which did put us in a slightly false position. Brum dug in and took one of the chances they had we didnt, so we lost the game. Concerning is we have not been playing well as a team for a while now and have been relying on individuals to scrape us the points.

Yes we have had injuries to good players but so have other teams; we need that old pride passion and belief to return along with the will to win.

We could quite easily win ALL the remaining games this month (we need to, to become a serious threat this season) and not do our usual tail off that occurs around this time of the season.

Over to you then Deano, we still have some great players that are not injured, its your job to make them a team/squad of winners..... oh and please drop that "we go again" shite reminds me of Lee

[Dastardly and Muttley]

Sorry everyone, I feel I should hold my hands up here and own up.

After the QPR game, I took a look at the fixture list. This was then followed by me texting it to my brother-in-law and confidently stating that we weren’t going to lose until January at least.

This is my official apology. Sorry Mr Holden and the team.

[RedRock]

What worries me is that our attacking ‘unit’ is full strength and they look powder-puff. Lacking in cohesion, pattern of play, fluency, consistency ...it all, just once again, seems to be totally random.

Accept that the loss of Andi, has some impact but if we’re saying he was the glue that stuck our forward play together then we’re not going anywhere fast. Pato likewise. When either of those two were fit/on form we still didn’t look like an efficient attacking unit. 

 

While  I’ve backed Fam in the past, his development seems yet again to have stalled. For me time to get rid.

Fundamentally though we need the/an attacking coach to sit down and work out just what our attacking plan is and then go out and get players that fit the model!

 

[Bernard Lerring]

43 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Fundamentally though we need the/an attacking coach to sit down and work out just what our attacking plan is and then go out and get players that fit the model!

We have an attacking coach? 

[RedRock]

3 minutes ago, Bernard Lerring said:

We have an attacking coach? 

I think that might be the problem, hence reference to the ‘an’

[054123]

12 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

There really isn’t that much quality in our current first team. There just isn’t. It’s jam packed with hard working, run of the mill Championship standard players and younger players who are making mistakes on their way to better things.

I think most people accept that the last transfer window was not a “normal” window in any way, shape or form. How many windows did the previous manager have to build a counter attacking squad that can’t play on the front foot whilst the men in charged just sat there and wrote cheques for it to happen.

We became a ‘standard championship’ team 3 years ago and haven’t shifted since.

Its not a criticism, I don’t think we’ll struggle and we will occasionally pick up some great wins but neither do I think we are a really good team and we will occasionally drop points unexpectedly.

Who knows.

[Swede]

We've gone from having too many players to having to fill a squad with U23's. Bad luck? Maybe. That's lead to the change in formation. Given the predictable way we're playing and the blunted attack, seeing the likes of attacking midfielders Morrell and Palmer moved on and all of the games Korey Smith has played since leaving only serves to underline how underwhelming we are and how the club are reaping the benefits of employing an inexperienced Head Coach.

A good indication is how strong the subs bench looks and that is looking increasingly weak.

Given that we fluctuate between 3rd and now 8th just goes to show where we could have been with a more experienced coach.

The football is generally poor to watch and I appreciate teams, bar the relegated prem teams, are cancelling each other out. If LJ was still in charge there would be uproar on here. Nice bloke but I don't see much change with DH given they have the same mantra.

 

[Engvall’s Splinter]

12 hours ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

Dare I say it, but perhaps we are missing Pato much more than all his critics thought.

He was our creative link - we did not replicate him in today’s team.

We’ve had a creative issue for a number of years. Paterson has been here circa 5/6. Bar a good spell during our cup run season and the first few games of this he’s non existent. If we are content with a 12th-16th position then he’s adequate. To push on, in my opinion, he’s not. 

[1960maaan]

3 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

We will never know all the details but maybe COD had run himself out ? 
 

 (A)  We were good first half , unlucky not to score .  

 Brum defended very well. 
 

(B)  Brunt delivered some good balls and played his best half for us but clearly he can’t be expected to play twice a week at his age and was only bought in as cover. 
 

We also had some good phases of play in the second but poor decision making , bad luck or good defending stopped us nicking the important first goal.

 I am disappointed by the result yesterday but overall we are not a bad side . We are not fonctioning very well in the final third and need to work on that but I have faith that it will come.

 

(A). We weren't though, we were good for 20 minutes, apart from one block their keeper had nothing to do.

(B)  Take away the dead ball kicks did he really effect the game at all?  Having his best half mean little when the bar is set so low. 

Fair play trying to find the positives, but it really was poor all round. I'd say the ones who came out with credit are no surprise. Bentley saved us, again. Kalas was, well Kalas, and Nagy was busy, not sure why it took so long for him to get in the team. COD continued his decent form ,but being ok , which a few were, is a minimum requirement .  We aren't a bad side, but we aren't playing well and we have a novice coach who has half a team out. We need to stay in touch until we can bring players in. The problem is, that mindset can lead to very safety first football, but I'm not sure we have an option.
We desperately need players back. 

 

[Abraham Romanovich]

12 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Holden was the "continuity candidate" so it's hardly surprising that performances and results are so similar to the last couple of seasons. And let's be fair, that's not necessarily a negative, because in terms of results Lee Johnson delivered very respectable results and league positions at City. 

The problem is, although he and MA have said he has his own ideas, does he? We haven't seen much evidence of it yet. Maybe he is a better and more natural leader than LJ? That would certainly help, but he needs to be tactically adept too. 

The whole situation just reminds me of when Millen took over. He also did well during his caretaker spell, and had a decent first season. But after that he was found wanting because he didn't have the experience or leadership abilities to progress the club.

Things went rapidly downhill and similar to you, I could see the same happening with Holden. I think he'll be OK this season but next season will be the real test. It's a huge ask for a managerial novice. 

Agree completely .

My one question is does the same yardstick apply to DH as LJ namely a top 6 finish is a prerequisite.

We just seem to be stuck in this endless loop of drab football with ok away results painting over the performance and end up finishing about 8-10th .

Is this acceptable .

 

 

 

[chinapig]

9 minutes ago, Abraham Romanovich said:

Agree completely .

My one question is does the same yardstick apply to DH as LJ namely a top 6 finish is a prerequisite.

We just seem to be stuck in this endless loop of drab football with ok away results painting over the performance and end up finishing about 8-10th .

Is this acceptable .

 

 

 

No, Ashton said he had no target when he was appointed so he has a free pass for this season.

[ScottishRed]

11 minutes ago, chinapig said:

No, Ashton said he had no target when he was appointed so he has a free pass for this season.

That is correct.

It was a ridiculous comment to make by the CEO.

[Roger Red Hat]

13 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I've always had this nagging feeling that it's going to go horribly wrong with Holden. I hope that's incorrect because he seems a genuinely great guy.. just can't shake this feeling that sooner or later it's all going to go wrong. 

It's an essential part of the make up if your a Bristol City supporter.

[slartibartfast]

We seem to have started our slide to oblivion a bit earlier this year .