it cant go on indefinitely

[spudski]

4 minutes ago, SedRA said:

Both dips in this chart are in the weeks after lockdown being implemented

Lockdowns do ‘work’, they’re just not a long term solution when the cats already out of the bag. NZ who you use as an example of getting it right achieved that by locking down very hard (including flights in and out of the country), for a good length of time very early. It’s hard to compare nz to us though as they have much more space for their population, as well as being at the end of travel

corridors rather than being an essential hub etc  

 

I agree a lockdown will work short term...but not long term. As soon as you lift it, it starts again. For some reason some people think this is going to go away...and that vaccines will be the answer.

It won't...we have flu vaccines, we still catch the flu each year, and millions die from it each year.

It's the same scenario...a more deadly virus that will mutate. And vaccines won't stop people dieing or being ill from it.

It's not possible to continue in the same vein that we are. The consequences long term will be far worse. 

Other overcrowded populations have coped better than us...look at Japan.

Perhaps the fact we live in an island, that is vastly overpopulated for its size, with a great many living on top of one another isn't helping. Also that we have a great many of the population that are elderly, overweight, unhealthy, people with underlying health issues and sedentary that isn't helping. 

So many different scenarios...either way, lockdowns, wearing masks and stopping people working, educating and providing a living isn't the long term answer.

[Guest]

With imagination, anything can go on forever.

Money men are an imaginative lot.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Their debt is mental obviously, but a notable issue is the short term nature of it! Or a lot of it...that article cites two figures, is it those two aggregated? Would they be in that position it if not for Covid? Maybe, but surely been exacerbated.

If you want to see a notable contrast, Bayern paid off their Allianz Arena debt in 2014...was due in 2030!

Couple of other bits. Tottenham and their £175m Bank of England loan they took out in June 2020, apparently due in April. (Interest Rate 0.5%). Arsenal took one out in January as well, £120m. Unsure on interest rate or due date, or whether it was used to refinance existing debts etc.

[BTRFTG]

The significant difference being 'Mes Que Un Club'.

FC Barcelona isn't a football club or even part of a wider sporting club. It's just about THE most powerful political organisation in Catalonia and for all Catalans in Spain and around the world.  That's why the Presidential role is so influential and sought after.

Other clubs may default. Barca going would be tantamount to genocide.

[downendcity]

7 hours ago, oldstandrobin said:

He could move to North Bristol for a 'change of scene !' Then he would know what grass roots football is  after one training session he would be back on the 78 bus (or whatever comes first) to the Gate.

While at AG after one training session he’s more likely to be back on the treatment table.

[BigTone]

16 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Is that a bit harsh on Liam Walsh?! I just thought he was trying to get fit and play himself into contention again - you’ve made him seem like he’s part of a ‘hold the club to ransom’ type conspiracy?! On what evidence do you base this? Happy to be enlightened around stuff of which I’m not aware ... 

Have to agree with you on this as it doesn't seem to be the case. No doubt though someone allegedly ITK will put us right.

 I just think he simply isn't good enough and will move on in the summer. Nothing more sinister than that.

[PHILINFRANCE]

4 hours ago, spudski said:

It's not possible to continue in the same vein that we are. The consequences long term will be far worse. 

Other overcrowded populations have coped better than us...look at Japan.

Perhaps the fact we live in an island, that is vastly overpopulated for its size, with a great many living on top of one another isn't helping. You could be describing Japan. Also that we have a great many of the population that are elderly, overweight, unhealthy, people with underlying health issues and sedentary that isn't helping. 

So many different scenarios...either way, lockdowns, wearing masks and stopping people working, educating and providing a living isn't the long term answer.

Indeed, Look at Japan.

May I suggest that the reason(s) Japan has coped better than the UK is that, in general, they, as a nation, are more disciplined than the UK and, dare I say it, more respectful of authority and their fellow citizens.

Japan's request for people to wear masks when outside was adhered to without complaint, and can you just imagine young Japanese people attending mass rave parties?

Rita Ora - Thank You for your (agent's) sincere and heartfelt apology about your birthday celebration and trip to Egypt, but you, just like the 'influencers' sending the odd photo from Dubai or The Maldives whilst 'working' at goodness knows what, are simply taking the proverbial out of 'normal', law abiding citizens.

I don't wish COVID on any of you, but I hope sincerely you feel deep hurt and grief when you realise that, due to your selfish behaviour, you may have spread this awful virus to one of your loved ones.

Regrettably, I doubt you would even feel any sense of responsibility for what you have done, although you will no doubt manage to arrange for a photo of you in (mascara stained) tears to appear in some red top paper - for an appropriate fee, of course.    

[Nogbad the Bad]

3 hours ago, BigTone said:

Have to agree with you on this as it doesn't seem to be the case. No doubt though someone allegedly ITK will put us right.

 I just think he simply isn't good enough and will move on in the summer. Nothing more sinister than that.

I''ll be looking for another word than bloody sinister if he moves on and becomes a top player at his next Championship club.

Not good enough for us? He'll be good enough for another Championship club if he goes Tone, no doubt he'll stay in this division - the only questions are just how good will he be, and how much will we regret him leaving.

Or some of us anyway......... let's hope it doesn't come to that, eh? 

[spudski]

2 hours ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Indeed, Look at Japan.

May I suggest that the reason(s) Japan has coped better than the UK is that, in general, they, as a nation, are more disciplined than the UK and, dare I say it, more respectful of authority and their fellow citizens.

Japan's request for people to wear masks when outside was adhered to without complaint, and can you just imagine young Japanese people attending mass rave parties?

Rita Ora - Thank You for your (agent's) sincere and heartfelt apology about your birthday celebration and trip to Egypt, but you, just like the 'influencers' sending the odd photo from Dubai or The Maldives whilst 'working' at goodness knows what, are simply taking the proverbial out of 'normal', law abiding citizens.

I don't wish COVID on any of you, but I hope sincerely you feel deep hurt and grief when you realise that, due to your selfish behaviour, you may have spread this awful virus to one of your loved ones.

Regrettably, I doubt you would even feel any sense of responsibility for what you have done, although you will no doubt manage to arrange for a photo of you in (mascara stained) tears to appear in some red top paper - for an appropriate fee, of course.    

Really good article on what Japan did here... No lockdowns either. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53188847

[BigTone]

1 hour ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

I''ll be looking for another word than bloody sinister if he moves on and becomes a top player at his next Championship club.

Not good enough for us? He'll be good enough for another Championship club if he goes Tone, no doubt he'll stay in this division - the only questions are just how good will he be, and how much will we regret him leaving.

Or some of us anyway......... let's hope it doesn't come to that, eh? 

Time will tell Your Noggership 

[IAmNick]

33 minutes ago, spudski said:

Really good article on what Japan did here... No lockdowns either. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53188847

Ah yes a seven month old article.

They're currently in their third state of emergency which has just been extended. The first asked all non essential businesses and schools to close and people to stay home if possible.

70% of people are being told to work from home. Bars must close at 8. You're misrepresenting them as having almost no restrictions... But they basically have by another name.

7 hours ago, spudski said:

For some reason some people think this is going to go away...and that vaccines will be the answer.

It won't...we have flu vaccines, we still catch the flu each year, and millions die from it each year.

It's the same scenario...a more deadly virus that will mutate. And vaccines won't stop people dieing or being ill from it.

Clearly you have some insider information contrary to almost every country in the would! I presume you're making them aware?

I assume you understand how the vaccines work, the spike protein, how it interacts with the host ACE-2 and the impact that has on the vaccine and infection?

7 hours ago, spudski said:

So many different scenarios...either way, lockdowns, wearing masks and stopping people working, educating and providing a living isn't the long term answer.

So if vaccination isn't the answer according to you and neither is any of that, what is?

Not like you to be once again spreading misinformation on this...

[spudski]

23 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Ah yes a seven month old article.

They're currently in their third state of emergency which has just been extended. The first asked all non essential businesses and schools to close and people to stay home if possible.

70% of people are being told to work from home. Bars must close at 8. You're misrepresenting them as having almost no restrictions... But they basically have by another name.

Clearly you have some insider information contrary to almost every country in the would! I presume you're making them aware?

I assume you understand how the vaccines work, the spike protein, how it interacts with the host ACE-2 and the impact that has on the vaccine and infection?

So if vaccination isn't the answer according to you and neither is any of that, what is?

Not like you to be once again spreading misinformation on this...

Taken from Gov.Uk website. Just repeating what the Government are telling us. Vaccine won't stop you catching it, or spreading it, just likely to be less severe, as I implied.

Will the vaccine protect you?

The COVID-19 vaccine that you have had has been shown to reduce the chance of you suffering from COVID-19 disease. Each vaccine has been tested in more than 20,000 people in several different countries and shown to be safe.

It may take a week or two for your body to build up some protection from the first dose of vaccine. Like all medicines, no vaccine is completely effective, so you should continue to take recommended precautions to avoid infection. Some people may still get COVID-19 despite having a vaccination, but this should be less severe.

Can you give COVID-19 to anyone if you have had the vaccine?

The vaccine cannot give you COVID-19 infection, and a full course will reduce your chance of becoming seriously ill. We do not yet know whether it will stop you from catching and passing on the virus, but we do expect it to reduce this risk. So, it is still important to follow the guidance in your local area to protect those around you.

To protect yourself and your family, friends and colleagues you still need to:

• practice social distancing
• wear a face mask
• wash your hands carefully and frequently
• follow the current guidance

[Bristol Oil Services]

8 hours ago, spudski said:

 

It won't...we have flu vaccines, we still catch the flu each year, and millions die from it each year.

 

Average UK deaths from flu: 8,000.

WHO estimate for average global deaths from influenza related illness: 390k. 

So, thousands here and hundreds of thousands globally die from influenza, not millions. Because of the flu jab, presumably. 

[spudski]

1 minute ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

Average UK deaths from flu: 8,000.

WHO estimate for average global deaths from influenza related illness: 390k. 

So, thousands here and hundreds of thousands globally die from influenza, not millions. Because of the flu jab, presumably. 

Approx 5000 deaths in Japan in total so far from Covid, with largest percentage population in the world of over 60s...No lockdowns. Plus they are testing vaccine more thoroughly before implementing it. People still going to work. Elderly isolating. Biggest spreaders in their 20s. If they can do it...we can. 

[PHILINFRANCE]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

Really good article on what Japan did here... No lockdowns either. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53188847

Whilst the article you reference is more than six months old, it still contains many arguments which, in reality, are nothing more than common sense. 

"Our figures... showed many infected people had visited music venues where there is screaming and singing... we knew that those were the places people needed to avoid."

The team identified "heavy breathing in close proximity" including "singing at karaoke parlours, parties, cheering at clubs, conversations in bars and exercising in gyms" as the highest-risk activities.

Japanese people began wearing face masks more than 100 years ago during the 1919 flu pandemic and they've never really stopped. If you get a cough or a cold here it is expected that you will don a mask to protect those around you. One of my daughters works closely with Japanese nationals, both here in France and in Japan. She mentioned some months ago that, notwithstanding COVID, it is actually considered to be extremely rude to go without a mask should one be suffereing from even a common cold and, heaven forbid, to sneeze without being covered.

There is no "Factor X" - like everywhere else it has depended on the same thing - breaking the chain of transmission. In Japan, though, the government can count on the public to comply.

Despite not ordering people to stay at home, on the whole, they did.

"It was lucky but also surprising," Prof Shibuya says. "Japan's mild lockdowns seems to have had a real lockdown effect. Japanese people complied despite the lack of draconian measures."

Japan asked people to take care, stay away from crowded places, wear masks and wash their hands - and by and large, that is exactly what most people have done.

[PHILINFRANCE]

1 hour ago, IAmNick said:

Ah yes a seven month old article.

They're currently in their third state of emergency which has just been extended. The first asked all non essential businesses and schools to close and people to stay home if possible.

70% of people are being told to work from home. Bars must close at 8. You're misrepresenting them as having almost no restrictions... But they basically have by another name.

Clearly you have some insider information contrary to almost every country in the would! I presume you're making them aware?

I assume you understand how the vaccines work, the spike protein, how it interacts with the host ACE-2 and the impact that has on the vaccine and infection?

So if vaccination isn't the answer according to you and neither is any of that, what is?

Not like you to be once again spreading misinformation on this...

Firstly, you are, of course, correct that the BBC article quoted dates from July 2020, but I am not sure that detracts from its overall message.

My point was just that the Japanese restrictions were (largely) being obeyed by a respectful (subservient?) population, a decision that appears to have proved very wise indeed.

Compare these figures, taken from the respected Worldometer site just minutes ago (I type slowly, so the figures may be just a few minutes out of date and, for ease, are approximated).

UK: TOTAL CASES 3.74M.  TOTAL DEATHS 103K. POPULATION 68M. DEATHS PER 1M POPULATION 1,515.

JAPAN: TOTAL CASES 375K.  TOTAL DEATHS 5631. POPULATION 126M. DEATHS PER 1M POPULATION 42.  

There is just no comparison between the figures.

Japan has twice the population of the UK, yet has recorded just 10% of our cases; 5% of our fatalities. 42 deaths per 1M of their populatio compared to our 1,515. 

Of course Japan imposed restrictions, but look what they achieved. We have restrictions here in France, but, by and large, people are complying, and, comparatively, the French figures are marginally better than those of the UK. 

I have not commented on your vaccine comments because, well, of course vaccination is the answer; as you will see in the weeks and months to come as you have pinched our vaccines .

[IAmNick]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

Taken from Gov.Uk website. Just repeating what the Government are telling us. Vaccine won't stop you catching it, or spreading it, just likely to be less severe, as I implied.

Will the vaccine protect you?

The COVID-19 vaccine that you have had has been shown to reduce the chance of you suffering from COVID-19 disease. Each vaccine has been tested in more than 20,000 people in several different countries and shown to be safe.

 

 

9 hours ago, spudski said:

And vaccines won't stop people dieing or being ill from it.

Mmm no, you didn't imply it would make it less severe. You literally said it wont stop people dying or being ill. So the complete opposite.

 

Remember the issue is that left unchecked it will overwhelm our healthcare system... as it currently is. The vaccine will hugely reduce the burden by preventing a huge number from getting sick.

9 hours ago, spudski said:

It won't...we have flu vaccines, we still catch the flu each year, and millions die from it each year.

Riiiight so a totally different illness and vaccine. What's your point?

 

49 minutes ago, spudski said:

No lockdowns. Plus they are testing vaccine more thoroughly before implementing it. People still going to work. Elderly isolating.

"Japan will expand its state of emergency to seven more prefectures and ban all foreign nationals from entering the country, Prime Minister Yoshihide Suga said Wednesday."

"The state of emergency orders companies to encourage their staff to work from home and reduce office populations by 70%. Residents of the affected areas are also urged to avoid non-essential outings and restaurants have to stop serving alcohol by 7 p.m. and close by 8 p.m."

 

Very amusing like 6 months ago you were on here saying the EXACT SAME THING about how Sweden was doing, how great their model was, no lockdowns, low cases.... How has that enden up exactly? Quietly forgotten I notice but on to Japan now!

The reason is you made your mind up at the start based on no science or evidence, and so are having to cherry pick your examples like a hot potato as they get disproven, rather than change your thinking.

[IAmNick]

6 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Firstly, you are, of course, correct that the BBC article quoted dates from July 2020, but I am not sure that detracts from its overall message.

My point was just that the Japanese restrictions were (largely) being obeyed by a respectful (subservient?) population, a decision that appears to have proved very wise indeed.

Compare these figures, taken from the respected Worldometer site just minutes ago (I type slowly, so the figures may be just a few minutes out of date and, for ease, are approximated).

UK: TOTAL CASES 3.74M.  TOTAL DEATHS 103K. POPULATION 68M. DEATHS PER 1M POPULATION 1,515.

JAPAN: TOTAL CASES 375K.  TOTAL DEATHS 5631. POPULATION 126M. DEATHS PER 1M POPULATION 42.  

There is just no comparison between the figures.

Japan has twice the population of the UK, yet has recorded just 10% of our cases; 5% of our fatalities. 42 deaths per 1M of their populatio compared to our 1,515. 

Of course Japan imposed restrictions, but look what they achieved. We have restrictions here in France, but, by and large, people are complying, and, comparatively, the French figures are marginally better than those of the UK. 

I have not commented on your vaccine comments because, well, of course vaccination is the answer; as you will see in the weeks and months to come as you have pinched our vaccines .

I totally agree with your comments about the differences in behaviour - but I think it's disingenuous at best and dangerous at worst to try and imply that Japan did absolutely nothing and were fine (I know you weren't doing so). The fact the poster who did so originally though 6 months ago was on here spreading misinformation again about covid, the flu, and pointing at Sweden instead makes me think it was intentional.

[PHILINFRANCE]

4 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

I totally agree with your comments about the differences in behaviour - but I think it's disingenuous at best and dangerous at worst to try and imply that Japan did absolutely nothing and were fine (I know you weren't doing so). The fact the poster who did so originally though 6 months ago was on here spreading misinformation again about covid, the flu, and pointing at Sweden instead makes me think it was intentional.

"The state of emergency orders companies to encourage their staff to work from home and reduce office populations by 70%. Residents of the affected areas are also urged to avoid non-essential outings and restaurants have to stop serving alcohol by 7 p.m. and close by 8 p.m."

I have taken the liberty of quoting just a segment of your post, but the highlighted words illustrate the difference in our respective cultures.

Whereas the UK threatens (rarely imposed) fines and worse for non compliance, hence mass-attended raves, weddings etc., Japan merely encourages and urges its population to comply: they do and their figures speak for themselves.

[spudski]

5 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

 

Mmm no, you didn't imply it would make it less severe. You literally said it wont stop people dying or being ill. So the complete opposite.

 

Remember the issue is that left unchecked it will overwhelm our healthcare system... as it currently is. The vaccine will hugely reduce the burden by preventing a huge number from getting sick.

Riiiight so a totally different illness and vaccine. What's your point?

 

"Japan will expand its state of emergency to seven more prefectures and ban all foreign nationals from entering the country, Prime Minister Yoshihide Suga said Wednesday."

"The state of emergency orders companies to encourage their staff to work from home and reduce office populations by 70%. Residents of the affected areas are also urged to avoid non-essential outings and restaurants have to stop serving alcohol by 7 p.m. and close by 8 p.m."

 

Very amusing like 6 months ago you were on here saying the EXACT SAME THING about how Sweden was doing, how great their model was, no lockdowns, low cases.... How has that enden up exactly? Quietly forgotten I notice but on to Japan now!

The reason is you made your mind up at the start based on no science or evidence, and so are having to cherry pick your examples like a hot potato as they get disproven, rather than change your thinking.

You should seriously go into politics, you can put a spin on anything and make it sound correct :laugh: 

You're like those fact checkers, who pedanticaly take one point, spin it, make it look like it's the main issue and make out everything is misleading :laugh: 

If you seriously think vaccines are going to be our saviour, then I suggest you do a bit more research.

 A virus that is supposedly new...and a vaccine that's been rushed through in a year.

Yet we've had flu for many decades, years of vaccine testing, and people still catch it and die from it.

And you think a vaccine rushed out in a year is going to be the answer...even the Government guidelines are vague, uncertain and skirt around the certainty.

This isn't about health...this is purely to stop the NHS being overloaded. 

We don't have the qualified staff to cope with it. Hence the Nightingale hospitals closing down...what a farce.

Ivermectin has had as much clinical trials worldwide as any vaccine. Scientists with nothing to gain, and everything to lose screaming about it.

It's already available, pence to administer, yet Governments ignoring the facts from its success in helping with the virus.

If you think the Government are doing everything they can for our health then I'd get your head out of the sand.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[IAmNick]

2 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

"The state of emergency orders companies to encourage their staff to work from home and reduce office populations by 70%. Residents of the affected areas are also urged to avoid non-essential outings and restaurants have to stop serving alcohol by 7 p.m. and close by 8 p.m."

I have taken the liberty of quoting just a segment of your post, but the highlighted words illustrate the difference in our respective cultures.

Whereas the UK threatens (rarely imposed) fines and worse for non compliance, hence mass-attended raves, weddings etc., Japan merely encourages and urges its population to comply: they do and their figures speak for themselves.

Again, as I said I agree. Which is why bringing up what Japan did as some kind of proof lockdowns down work or aren't a correct course of action in the UK (or similar countries in Europe) doesn't make sense to me!

[reddoh]

in life we all make good decisions or bad decisions if I post tomorrow I will have made a good decision 2 days ago if I don't oh bugger see you all in the next life if there is one.

[IAmNick]

1 minute ago, spudski said:

You're like those fact checkers, who pedanticaly take one point, spin it, make it look like it's the main issue and make out everything is misleading

Yeah I do like to check facts, I agree that is a key difference between us.

1 minute ago, spudski said:

If you seriously think vaccines are going to be our saviour, then I suggest you do a bit more research.

Gladly. Care to point me in the right direction? They seem to have been our saviour for many diseases in the past so I'm interested in your research here.

I don't accept tweets, youtube videos, or facebook posts I'm afraid.

Saviour? Not guaranteed.

Extremely helpful in the battle? Yes.

2 minutes ago, spudski said:

 A virus that is supposedly new...and a vaccine that's been rushed through in a year.

No it hasn't been rushed, you're showing your ignorance here. Rushed implies corners were cut. They weren't. The majority of what makes a vaccine take so long to get to market is waiting for funding, approvals, clinical trials, or reviews. It's not in the actual making of the vaccine itself. I can provide links if you want.

What are you implying with this sentence though?

6 minutes ago, spudski said:

Yet we've had flu for many decades, years of vaccine testing, and people still catch it and die from it.

Yes. I don't think anybody has ever said that a vaccine will give 100% protection and stop anyone dying though have they?

Remember: You are talking about and comparing two DIFFERENT viruses here, which shows your complete lack of knowledge. Flu is actually a number of influenza viruses that the flu vaccine has to target, compared to just one for COVID.

For flu they are basically doing a "best guess" ahead of time each year to try and target the most prevalent strain of flu that winter. Sometimes they get it right, sometimes wrong. That's why it varies so much.

Comparing them doesn't make sense, which you would know if you did some research.

9 minutes ago, spudski said:

This isn't about health...this is purely to stop the NHS being overloaded. 

Right. So why does that mean the vaccine wont be effective if you have agreed that it will greatly reduce people getting sick, and therefor using healthcare resources?

9 minutes ago, spudski said:

Ivermectin has had as much clinical trials worldwide as any vaccine.

Source? I don't believe you.

10 minutes ago, spudski said:

It's already available, pence to administer, yet Governments ignoring the facts from its success in helping with the virus.

It's potentially promising. There are quite a few medical studies appearing about it now, although I'll admit I haven't read them. I don't understand how this is relevant to what we were talking about though?

10 minutes ago, spudski said:

If you think the Government are doing everything they can for our health then I'd get your head out of the sand.

A strawman. I didn't say that.

 

It's hard to keep up though with these random points and changing what you're talking about from one post to the next. We're on to the generic "don't trust the government" now though which is normally the end of the road.

I predict no sources provided for any of your claims. Please prove me wrong.

[Baldyman]

This is a bit out there but it crossed my mind that it’s not impossible that large crowds at professional sport could even be absent for years ! If so , could we have a situation where professional football at elite level could become purely a televised event with the huge costly stadiums sold off and replaced with small spectator free facilities . Instead of 50,000 fans paying to go into a stadium they simply pay to stream it with the game taking place in a glorified “ studio” . No idea how any whiskies I’d had when I dreamed this up mind you but it sounds horrific

[PHILINFRANCE]

36 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Again, as I said I agree. Which is why bringing up what Japan did as some kind of proof lockdowns down work or aren't a correct course of action in the UK (or similar countries in Europe) doesn't make sense to me!

Unless I have misunderstood your post, then we must agree to disagree.

My view, quite unequivocally, is that lockdowns do work, i.e. they restrict, limit the transmission of the virus.

Of course, a lockdown in isolation is not a total solution, a strong vaccination programme is an absolute necessity, but, together, I think this is the only solution.

It will be inconvenient to many, but is the lesser of two evils. 

[reddoh]

21 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Unless I have misunderstood your post, then we must agree to disagree.

My view, quite unequivocally, is that lockdowns do work, i.e. they restrict, limit the transmission of the virus.

Of course, a lockdown in isolation is not a total solution, a strong vaccination programme is an absolute necessity, but, together, I think this is the only solution.

It will be inconvenient to many, but is the lesser of two evils. 

Think you missed his point but maybe not a whoosh

[IAmNick]

35 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Unless I have misunderstood your post, then we must agree to disagree.

My view, quite unequivocally, is that lockdowns do work, i.e. they restrict, limit the transmission of the virus.

Of course, a lockdown in isolation is not a total solution, a strong vaccination programme is an absolute necessity, but, together, I think this is the only solution.

It will be inconvenient to many, but is the lesser of two evils. 

No we agree! Sorry, I'm probably not being clear.

I am saying people who bring up the very few countries who haven't locked down (Sweden in the past, Japan now) are being dishonest if they try and relate that to the UK (or France I guess in your case). I agree with you that the situation in Japan is not comparable to here, so to imply their approach would work here is wrong.

I agree with everything you have said!