Bristol R*vers dustbin thread

[london_Cider_red]

First time posting a city piece, normally just do it as a hobby and delete it. Thanks so much if you read and hope you guys enjoy it or it at least starts a good debate!

Feedback is welcome  

 

No wins in five or unbeaten in three? The reign of Pearson shows there is spin to everything. His hands have been tied financially, he knew this going in. The squad to work with was known and has been changed over three windows. With two years under his belt has Pearson given city any reason to believe better times are ahead?

It looks increasingly likely the upcoming second anniversary celebrations for Nigel will be in the shadows of the black cloud above his head. His tenure of City has been rocky from the get go. Fans generally afforded him the first six months due to inheriting an expensive and dreadfully underperforming squad. Happy with staying up the previous go round, minds focused nervously forward and a feel of optimism began to grow for the 21/22 season.

Now midway through the 22/23 season, one and a half years  into Pearson’s 5 year plan, city are sitting in the same position,19^th, as after Pearson’s first six months in charge. With a relegation fight looming it is hard to find many areas of improvement since he first took the helm. A case can be made for the football being better, it would have been a challenge to get worse. The few bright sparks over Pearson’s tenure are no doubt the emergence of youth breaking down the first team door. Conway, Semenyo and ‘star boy’ Scott have given City fans joy the past two years and earned Pearson commendation for showing faith in them. An argument can be made that he didn’t have much choice in the matter however, they have repaid the trust tenfold.

A second area of improvement, a mixture of on and off field effects, is the shedding of the wage bill and along with it players considered dead wood. How much praise can be heaped on Pearson for this is debatable, it was well-known before Pearson took charge the wage bill was too high and players would need to leave or sign drastically reduced wages. An argument can be made the financial side has largely been down to the level headed stewardship of Gould (congratulations are in order sir) with Pearson left to determine and inform the board of who he does and does not want in the squad.

The previous point leads us to another question, Persons roll within the club. He has made it very clear he is not a coach, stating multiple times that he does not get to involved with the training side, as shown by the near army of coaching staff he has brought on board. So what does he do? Pearson is open about not being involved in coaching and being as limited as possible in transfers and negotiations. His track record of being more than willing to throw players under the bus and making fallings out obvious to even the most oblivious suggests he is not a fan of man management either, often forcing him to play players out of position. This leads us to believe tactically (you would hope this would be true at least), he has final say however, in loosing situations the lack of a credible plan B has often frustrated fans. Long balls upfront are often the preferred method of attack, despite not having a target man or even a striker over 6 foot on the pitch. Formation changes tend to happen as much as a unicorn sighting, one such sighting in the last game against Swansea worked beautifully and many are hoping to see this more often… time will tell. Ultimately city’s tactics seem very ridged and predictable, two things you can get away with if you are winning games but to sit 19^th doesn’t cover them in glory… sorry Nige.

Bringing in 9 players so far Persons transfer activity has caused debate. Some say he has done the best with what he has and others question the money spent on wages. Bringing in Simpson and now Klose and Martins contract extensions, to sit and watch the matches from home surely isn’t the best use of strapped funds. Of all of his business only James and Atkinson play regular first team football, with Naismith regularly injured and tanner on the fringes of the first team. Injuries and player fallings out has further caused debate about lack of willingness to dip into the loan market. It is generally accepted city are unlikely to be able to afford anyone better than we have, but with mounting injuries, likely January exits and players being used as speed bumps for Pearson’s bus, loans would seem like a logical solution to a temporary problem. Taking the impeccable job Tinnion has done for city, working with the equivalent of pennies in football terms, imagine what he could find in premiership academies. Alas it seems this will not come to fruition as the word of Pearson is still firmly in the no loans box. This ideology made sense at the start of the season with a fully fit squad and nearly every place in the team being fought for but the decision to stick with it in the current situation screams of stubbornness more than sense.

It seems a point aggravating city fans the most, this is definitely mine, is the lack of accountability shown. Pre and Post-match press conferences have become almost predictable. Players not performing? I’m not in charge of training them. Players not on the pitch or even in the team? They need to work harder. Players playing out of position? I have to work with what I’ve got. Lack of fight shown on the pitch and players looking defeated? The mentality hasn’t changed since I got here. Poor performances and falling down the table? We are where we are. All said with a wry chuckle and almost half a smile on his face,  nothing, it seems, is ever down to Pearson. This brings us to the question if none of this is down to Pearson what is he actually doing?

All in all there is little evidence of the improvement needed, less belief every game of city being a promotion contender or even just a solid mid table team in the near future. In fact with the recent run of form many fans have both eyes firmly fixed over their shoulders, preparing for an ugly fight to the end of the season.

 

         

[richyy66]

Get your tin hat ready mate....:laugh:

[RedRock]

Nice piece. Difficult to argue against a lot of what you’ve said. 

While recognising that the Club was a mess when he took over the reigns, I was hoping for better from Pearson tbh. 

Next few games are going to be telling as to what the strategy is for the Club.

The new CEO appointment does, however, provide some hope that we’re just not going to roll over and accept relegation. Just a pity he can’t play central-midfield.

[london_Cider_red]

1 minute ago, RedRock said:

Nice piece. Difficult to argue against a lot of what you’ve said. 

While recognising that the Club was a mess when he took over the reigns, I was hoping for better from Pearson tbh. 

Next few games are going to be telling as to what the strategy is for the Club.

The new CEO appointment does, however, provide some hope that we’re just not going to roll over and accept relegation. Just a pity he can’t play central-midfield.

I was going to touch on the new CEO being a potential secret weapon in the loan market with his connections in the prem. Decided against it as it would have mainly been speculation on my part.

Thanks for the comments though! I'm hoping Pearson makes me look silly by the end of the season but just can't see how.  

[sglosbcfc]

Who is Person? 

[ProfitInMyPocket]

You can spin things however you want, depending on how you feel and it is obvious on how you feel about the guy which is fair enough. Our fans always expect growth even though we've spunked all our money away. This is a long reset for this little cosy club of ours.

I've never heard of a five year plan under NP (if i'm wrong please correct me, thought that was a LJ Europa League waffle statement).

He could have kept the wasters around and never given the young lads a chance but he did.

He's brought in Rennie, Euell and Fleming IIRC? might be more but that doesn't seem like an army, and if he wants his guys in then why is that a bad thing?

At the end of the day he is the manager if he wants to call someone out for not meeting his standards then he has every right to do so, don't understand why our fans get so upset by it - has your manager at work never told you or someone else they aren't working hard enough and needs more? I'd rather the manager of our club be as transparent as possible if the message isn't getting across at the training ground. 

Semenyo and Scott have both been used at RWB under Pearson, and look how much both these two have improved once they've settled into getting regular football in their positions, Weimann does a fair job there too when asked to. I have no issue in players playing out of position if they work hard for the team.

Agree with the plan B issue, we're so used to having many "clubs in the bag" to throw on, don't have that luxury at the moment. 

Naismith regularly injured? he had one stint out of the team. Tanner bought in as one for the future has settled in brilliantly in recent weeks and looks like he has excellent potential by not throwing him in at the deep end. Agree on Martin, Klose and Simpson but he needs bodies and now the squad is starting to settle he can now see what kind of movement he would like to make in the near future (possibly now if we get lucky in the window this month).

Transfer stuff been done to death, WE NEED TO SELL BEFORE WE BRING ANYONE IN - LOANS COST ££££.

He has said countless times in post match interviews that he takes the blame, perhaps he smiles because you don't know much of a shitshow has been behind the scenes of our club and he didn't really know how much he was getting into, but he is still here trying to change our identity and it is about time we had someone like that, not since Mr Cotterill have we had someone put their own stamp on this club and I hope NP doesn't get treated the same way. I don't see a lack of accountability at all, he has said recently to boo him but get behind the team.

We can all be spin doctors of course, that is your opinion and this is mine - I've said it a few times on here but this is the first time in over five years I've actually enjoyed going home and away to watch the City - there is a bit of fight about us, can only think of 2-3 games where we've been made to look stupid this season - Brum and Reading away still eat away in my brain from this season but I could name most of the games this season where we've been super competitive and had plenty of opportunities to take the three points on the day. 

We're never going to be promotion contenders, I mentioned before we had our chance and blew it, thank Mr Lansdown, Ashton and Johnson for that. We might be able to become a sustainable mid-table progressive football club in this division if our fans gave it time to turn it around.

I'd rather have this team we have right now fighting to keep us up instead of some others in previous years, we may be light on our feet in terms of numbers but I can't say they don't try. Always get behind our boys, COYR.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, london_Cider_red said:

First time posting a city piece, normally just do it as a hobby and delete it.

don’t delete in future, share and discuss

Thanks so much if you read and hope you guys enjoy it or it at least starts a good debate!

Feedback is welcome  

 

No wins in five or unbeaten in three? The reign of Pearson shows there is spin to everything.

indeed there is. Depending on which side of the coin you want to use, posters tend to take their “metrics” from a selective point / range, e.g. league and cup, or just League, 6 games, 8 games, since last win, since last defeat, etc.  I do wonder if we attempted some kind of standardisation of measuring form we might see less knee-jerk in either direction?  For me 6 games is a good barometer of form, usually includes equal number of home and away matches too.

His hands have been tied financially, he knew this going in. The squad to work with was known and has been changed over three windows.

across those 3 windows (now in window 4) no Championship club has made less signings than Bristol City / Nige.  In the summer window just gone 11 championship clubs signed more players in that single window than Nige has in total.  Without trying to really defend Nige (I do that enough across OTIB) is probably shows how difficult it has been to change the squad, in fact we e had to get rid of many more than we’ve brought in.

With two years under his belt has Pearson given city any reason to believe better times are ahead?

I guess my response to this is - yes, when the financial mess has stopped and there is financial room to recruit and replace.  The earliest that can happen without selling a jewel is this summer.  In some respects you could say Nige has had to tread water for (what will be) 2 1/3 years.  Hardly ideal, but that’s the landscape.

It looks increasingly likely the upcoming second anniversary celebrations for Nigel will be in the shadows of the black cloud above his head. His tenure of City has been rocky from the get go. Fans generally afforded him the first six months due to inheriting an expensive and dreadfully underperforming squad. Happy with staying up the previous go round, minds focused nervously forward and a feel of optimism began to grow for the 21/22 season.

I think my biggest question is why did they decide to afford him only 6 months, it appears to be an arbitrary timescale that just happened to fit in with the start of his first full season.  Especially when Nige said it was a three year project (from being announced permanently) to get us challenging again.  We are only just about half way through that three year plan.  The reality is likely to be it might take longer.  But assuming we stay up (for the point of this debate), we still have a further summer and winter window within a full season to make that progress.

Now midway through the 22/23 season, one and a half years  into Pearson’s 5 year plan (3 year), city are sitting in the same position,19^th, as after Pearson’s first six months in charge. With a relegation fight looming it is hard to find many areas of improvement since he first took the helm.

I think there is a general feeling that length of tenure = league position progress, but personally I think that is a bit ignorant of the underlying factors at play and too simplistic a way of looking at it.  Even that first summer, several players leaving the club, a much smaller number brought in, of which not all were strategic signings.  So why was the expectation set (by some) so high?

A case can be made for the football being better, it would have been a challenge to get worse.

Again, you could argue that with a worse squad that when he took over, why would you necessarily expect things to get better.  There’s a theoretical “change curve” at play here, and I’d suggest we are still bottoming out currently, and start to grow again this summer.  We most certainly weren’t growing in summer 2021, nor summer 2022.

The few bright sparks over Pearson’s tenure are no doubt the emergence of youth breaking down the first team door. Conway, Semenyo and ‘star boy’ Scott have given City fans joy the past two years and earned Pearson commendation for showing faith in them. An argument can be made that he didn’t have much choice in the matter however, they have repaid the trust tenfold.

10 Academy players given there league debut:

One sold, one released, 7 offered new / extended contracts.  The successes you’ve mentioned, I’d add Pring to that list too.

A second area of improvement, a mixture of on and off field effects, is the shedding of the wage bill and along with it players considered dead wood. How much praise can be heaped on Pearson for this is debatable, it was well-known before Pearson took charge the wage bill was too high and players would need to leave or sign drastically reduced wages. An argument can be made the financial side has largely been down to the level headed stewardship of Gould (congratulations are in order sir) with Pearson left to determine and inform the board of who he does and does not want in the squad.

No arguments with that.  The actual “tasks” will undoubtedly have been completed by Gould, but I think the bit that’s underplayed here is that the manager has to accept the impact of those decisions, and that is running with a small squad, bringing through youngsters, short term signings (initially) of Simpson, Klose, even King.  Nobody will convince me that if budgets were more relaxed we wouldn’t have signed different players.  I’d suggest it’s been a team effort, and also Gould working with Nige on his best to execute a strategy to clear the mess.  That’s to a large extent why SL reached out to the experienced manager, and also probably the kind of project that appealed to Nige too, where he got the chance to influence the rebuild of Bristol City.  There will always be a question of - could we have just brought him in as a Consultant, rather than Manager.  But I don’t think he was ready to just do that aspect alone, he’s hands on.

The previous point leads us to another question, Persons roll within the club. He has made it very clear he is not a coach, stating multiple times that he does not get to involved with the training side, as shown by the near army of coaching staff he has brought on board.

Firstly, he is the manager.  But the manager empowers, the manager sets the direction of the coaches.  He is on the training ground, but he prefers to observe, not just the players, but the coaches too…he’s ensuring everyone is doing what he has set, albeit coaches will be allowed to do things in their own way / style.  So, a bit of a myth that he’s not involved with the training side, he most certainly is.  His “medical” team (Rennie, etc) are also visible of the training ground.  It is a team collaboration.  Nige doesn’t need to run the drills, that’s what the coaches are for, but he’s most definitely present.

As for army of coaches, there are no more bodies than previous managers / head coaches.  You seem to be implying he’s added to the numbers…he hasn’t.

So what does he do? Pearson is open about not being involved in coaching and being as limited as possible in transfers and negotiations.

Out of interest, what tasks do you think he should be undertaking in those processes?  He woukd be treading on the CEO’s or Technical Director’s toes if he was involved in negotiations for example.  That’s not his skillset.  What he has helped to influence is having the right set up.  Was it right that Sean Gilhespy (a senior data / video analyst looking after a team of junior staff) was handling agent conversations when that’s not his skillset?  Nope, hence why Tins is now in role.  Was it important to get some football-playing experience into the recruitment team?  Yes, hence why Cisse started helping in that area, and again the formalising of Tins role, allowing Sean to focus on the things he’s good at.

What Nige has done is recognise areas of weakness and opportunity with Gould and others and set about optimising.

Easy to say he doesn’t do x he doesn’t do y….I’d say his role as manager at Bristol City is far more wide-reaching than many football club managers / head-coaches.

His track record of being more than willing to throw players under the bus and making fallings out obvious to even the most oblivious suggests he is not a fan of man management either, often forcing him to play players out of position.

we can of course go back to cosy-old-Bristol City.  As fans we moan about how sift we are as a club, and then at the first sign of a bit of a challenge, we claim “bullying” (not you per se).  I genuinely think the only person he threw under the bus was Tyreeq Bakinson, and that was after 3 or 4 chances…and imho he bloody deserved it.  I don’t think he threw Atkinson “under the bus”, he just reminded him of his expectations.  I think if you went and ask Rob for an honest answer of how he thinks Nige has handled him he’d be pretty positive about it.  And that’s from me hearing that from someone who knows Rob.

This leads us to believe tactically (you would hope this would be true at least), he has final say however, in loosing situations the lack of a credible plan B has often frustrated fans. Long balls upfront are often the preferred method of attack, despite not having a target man or even a striker over 6 foot on the pitch.

justified criticism, although I’d argue that the squad doesn’t really allow significant change off the bench.  Unfortunately due to a small squad and injuries the options for variation off the bench isn’t huge.

 

1 hour ago, london_Cider_red said:

Formation changes tend to happen as much as a unicorn sighting, one such sighting in the last game against Swansea worked beautifully and many are hoping to see this more often… time will tell.

there is a balance required here, let’s not forget how easy it is to change system, personnel too often, so much that the players don’t know the real objective anymore.  Let’s also not forget that just because we changed on Sunday and it seemed to work against Swansea, doesn’t mean it’s the golden ticket. 

Ultimately city’s tactics seem very ridged and predictable, two things you can get away with if you are winning games but to sit 19^th doesn’t cover them in glory… sorry Nige.

I don’t think we have enough quality in our squad to do much else I’m afraid.  Trying to play like Man City is futile, even trying to play like Swansea is too.

Bringing in 9 players so far Persons transfer activity has caused debate. Some say he has done the best with what he has and others question the money spent on wages.

wages is one area you really can’t question him on.  He’s reduced the wage budget down to a level similar to 2016-17!!!  I’ve not really heard anyone question the amount he’s spent on wages, unless they’ve trusted those inaccurate websites like Sportrac!!!

Bringing in Simpson and now Klose and Martins contract extensions

Nige had no say in Martin’s contract extension, it was a clause agreed by Ashton / Holden.

Simpson was really a very low cost wage plus appearance money.  It didn’t work out.

Klose was a good recruit initially, he really helped us last season.  But when you can’t fish in the big pond, you make compromises, and that’s what Nige did in the summer.  It hadn’t worked out, but in the grand scheme of things it was a low cost wage.

, to sit and watch the matches from home surely isn’t the best use of strapped funds. Of all of his business only James and Atkinson play regular first team football, with Naismith regularly injured

he’s had one injury.

I’ve posted elsewhere on this forum that he’s signed onky three players for “now”…James, Naismith and Atkinson.  All have played virtually every game when fit.

He’s signed Bajic, Wilson and Tanner for the future, and Tanner is now making that breakthrough and looking like he will be a success (especially for a £275k signing from Lg2).

Klose, Simpson and King were short term signings - all free.

Sykes I’m not sure about, but bearing in mind he was brought from Lg1 on a free (is 24) I’d say he’s a bit of a box one now / future.

I honestly don’t think you can look at recruitment and use it as a stick to beat him with.  It’s criminal we are looking at 9/10 signings in 3/4 windows at a cost of £2m plus wages against a history of dozens of signings and tens of millions of pounds spent.  Nige had been very frugal.

and tanner on the fringes of the first team. Injuries and player fallings out has further caused debate about lack of willingness to dip into the loan market. It is generally accepted city are unlikely to be able to afford anyone better than we have, but with mounting injuries, likely January exits and players being used as speed bumps for Pearson’s bus, loans would seem like a logical solution to a temporary problem.

LOANS AREN’T FREE!!!

Taking the impeccable job Tinnion has done for city, working with the equivalent of pennies in football terms, imagine what he could find in premiership academies. Alas it seems this will not come to fruition as the word of Pearson is still firmly in the no loans box.

You haven’t been listening, sorry.

This ideology made sense at the start of the season with a fully fit squad and nearly every place in the team being fought for but the decision to stick with it in the current situation screams of stubbornness more than sense.

It seems a point aggravating city fans the most, this is definitely mine, is the lack of accountability shown. Pre and Post-match press conferences have become almost predictable. Players not performing? I’m not in charge of training them. Players not on the pitch or even in the team? They need to work harder. Players playing out of position? I have to work with what I’ve got. Lack of fight shown on the pitch and players looking defeated? The mentality hasn’t changed since I got here. Poor performances and falling down the table? We are where we are. All said with a wry chuckle and almost half a smile on his face,  nothing, it seems, is ever down to Pearson. This brings us to the question if none of this is down to Pearson what is he actually doing?

you started this post very objectively, but you’ve gone more down the road of it’s all Nige’s fault.

did you listen to this week’s media interview?  Lots of accountability, acceptance he’s made mistakes.  I do sometimes wonder what fans expect the manager to say?

All in all there is little evidence of the improvement needed, less belief every game of city being a promotion contender or even just a solid mid table team in the near future. In fact with the recent run of form many fans have both eyes firmly fixed over their shoulders, preparing for an ugly fight to the end of the season.

This is the reality of an inherited mess and the need for patience.  It is likely to be very ugly.  If the opening 13 days of the Jan window hadn’t brought fans to their senses of the situation we are in, it should do.  It’s all about opinions.

 

         

Nice one for putting a lot of effort into writing this.  Comments in line above.

[BrizzleRed]

I’ll say right here, I’m pro Pearson, as I’m convinced he is exactly what was needed to give this club the massive shake up it needed and clear the decks of the crap we’ve accumulated.

That said, the longer we go on, the more I’m convinced he’s only part of the solution and we are still missing that other vital part, namely reinforcement on the coaching side.

Even our most optimistic fans couldn’t argue the case that NP is getting the best out of the players available to him and the longer this continues, the less likely it seems that this will change.

The fans are all lamenting the basic errors we continue to make, the piss poor corner, throw in and general set-piece routines and our slow, unimaginative build-up play.  We can see it, but it still continues.

NP had admitted coaching isn’t his main area of expertise, so what help is he getting from the current coaching set-up? 

I think NP can complete the shake up this club so urgently needed but imho, it’s becoming increasingly obvious he needs coaching help to get things working on the pitch, as he doesn’t appear capable of achieving this on his own.

[A Horse With No Name]

If I could just offer a tiny piece of constructive critisism, as you say this is a hobby of yours.  Your writing style, for me anyway, made it difficult to read, as it seems to be blocks of sentences just bolted together, and therefore your piece had no flow to it. Insert more commas, and less full stops and it would be much more readable, however please keep posting as you make some very good points.

Edited January 14, 2023 by CrackingCheeseGromit

[italian dave]

Nice work; enjoyed reading it. 

It highlights the dilemma that is NP and his spell here - as you say it can be spun several ways.

Interesting to read @Davefevs s response to - feels a bit like that’s a response from someone who spins it one way (the “Nige” camp) - and makes that case really well too. Although have to say Dave, it’s stretching it a bit to count Idehen as one of those who’s come through the academy? 

It would be interesting to see a similar response from someone spinning it the other way - I’m not offering though! 

[Guest]

A shorter piece, his record here to date; 1win in last 12 league/cup games, going back to mid Oct; 26wins and 43 losses since he got here 92games; 3pts required TODAY. NP`s record at Liecs will not keep us up only results will do that.

[ExiledAjax]

15 minutes ago, gl2 said:

A shorter piece, his record here to date; 1win in last 12 league/cup games, going back to mid Oct; 26wins and 43 losses since he got here 92games; 3pts required TODAY. NP`s record at Liecs will not keep us up only results will do that.

Even if we lose and Blackpool win we are very unlikely to drop into the bottom 3 today given our goal difference. Even if we did drop in it would be on goal difference only and there remain 19 games to get out.

We do not need to win today.

[Major Isewater]

6 hours ago, sglosbcfc said:

Who is Person? 

Somebody and nobody.

[City oz]

7 hours ago, london_Cider_red said:

First time posting a city piece, normally just do it as a hobby and delete it. Thanks so much if you read and hope you guys enjoy it or it at least starts a good debate!

Feedback is welcome  

 

No wins in five or unbeaten in three? The reign of Pearson shows there is spin to everything. His hands have been tied financially, he knew this going in. The squad to work with was known and has been changed over three windows. With two years under his belt has Pearson given city any reason to believe better times are ahead?

It looks increasingly likely the upcoming second anniversary celebrations for Nigel will be in the shadows of the black cloud above his head. His tenure of City has been rocky from the get go. Fans generally afforded him the first six months due to inheriting an expensive and dreadfully underperforming squad. Happy with staying up the previous go round, minds focused nervously forward and a feel of optimism began to grow for the 21/22 season.

Now midway through the 22/23 season, one and a half years  into Pearson’s 5 year plan, city are sitting in the same position,19^th, as after Pearson’s first six months in charge. With a relegation fight looming it is hard to find many areas of improvement since he first took the helm. A case can be made for the football being better, it would have been a challenge to get worse. The few bright sparks over Pearson’s tenure are no doubt the emergence of youth breaking down the first team door. Conway, Semenyo and ‘star boy’ Scott have given City fans joy the past two years and earned Pearson commendation for showing faith in them. An argument can be made that he didn’t have much choice in the matter however, they have repaid the trust tenfold.

A second area of improvement, a mixture of on and off field effects, is the shedding of the wage bill and along with it players considered dead wood. How much praise can be heaped on Pearson for this is debatable, it was well-known before Pearson took charge the wage bill was too high and players would need to leave or sign drastically reduced wages. An argument can be made the financial side has largely been down to the level headed stewardship of Gould (congratulations are in order sir) with Pearson left to determine and inform the board of who he does and does not want in the squad.

The previous point leads us to another question, Persons roll within the club. He has made it very clear he is not a coach, stating multiple times that he does not get to involved with the training side, as shown by the near army of coaching staff he has brought on board. So what does he do? Pearson is open about not being involved in coaching and being as limited as possible in transfers and negotiations. His track record of being more than willing to throw players under the bus and making fallings out obvious to even the most oblivious suggests he is not a fan of man management either, often forcing him to play players out of position. This leads us to believe tactically (you would hope this would be true at least), he has final say however, in loosing situations the lack of a credible plan B has often frustrated fans. Long balls upfront are often the preferred method of attack, despite not having a target man or even a striker over 6 foot on the pitch. Formation changes tend to happen as much as a unicorn sighting, one such sighting in the last game against Swansea worked beautifully and many are hoping to see this more often… time will tell. Ultimately city’s tactics seem very ridged and predictable, two things you can get away with if you are winning games but to sit 19^th doesn’t cover them in glory… sorry Nige.

Bringing in 9 players so far Persons transfer activity has caused debate. Some say he has done the best with what he has and others question the money spent on wages. Bringing in Simpson and now Klose and Martins contract extensions, to sit and watch the matches from home surely isn’t the best use of strapped funds. Of all of his business only James and Atkinson play regular first team football, with Naismith regularly injured and tanner on the fringes of the first team. Injuries and player fallings out has further caused debate about lack of willingness to dip into the loan market. It is generally accepted city are unlikely to be able to afford anyone better than we have, but with mounting injuries, likely January exits and players being used as speed bumps for Pearson’s bus, loans would seem like a logical solution to a temporary problem. Taking the impeccable job Tinnion has done for city, working with the equivalent of pennies in football terms, imagine what he could find in premiership academies. Alas it seems this will not come to fruition as the word of Pearson is still firmly in the no loans box. This ideology made sense at the start of the season with a fully fit squad and nearly every place in the team being fought for but the decision to stick with it in the current situation screams of stubbornness more than sense.

It seems a point aggravating city fans the most, this is definitely mine, is the lack of accountability shown. Pre and Post-match press conferences have become almost predictable. Players not performing? I’m not in charge of training them. Players not on the pitch or even in the team? They need to work harder. Players playing out of position? I have to work with what I’ve got. Lack of fight shown on the pitch and players looking defeated? The mentality hasn’t changed since I got here. Poor performances and falling down the table? We are where we are. All said with a wry chuckle and almost half a smile on his face,  nothing, it seems, is ever down to Pearson. This brings us to the question if none of this is down to Pearson what is he actually doing?

All in all there is little evidence of the improvement needed, less belief every game of city being a promotion contender or even just a solid mid table team in the near future. In fact with the recent run of form many fans have both eyes firmly fixed over their shoulders, preparing for an ugly fight to the end of the season.

 

         

Very good post London cider red. Your opinion of NP may bring some shells and missiles your way but I do respect the frustrations you are feeling.

[Major Isewater]

6 hours ago, london_Cider_red said:

Thanks for the comments though! I'm hoping Pearson makes me look silly by the end of the season but just can't see how.  

You don’t need any help judging by the title of your( well thought out ) post. 

[firstdivision]

A few from the blue quarter of the city getting carried away in The Times this morning - the giddiness of being in the national press. 

I'll leave you to source JB's wide-ranging, guileless comments and make your own judgements. 

But this from the owner:

 “We are crying out for a modern stadium,” al-Qadi says. “What we have now [the Memorial Stadium] is an old, dilapidated rugby stadium. Bristol Rovers are like the Boca Juniors of Bristol, the first club of Bristol — five generations of fans come to games and it’s truly great to have. This my passion, my love.”

And this from the chief executive:

Gorringe moved from Brighton & Hove Albion because he could see Rovers’ potential. “If you look at the city, we are the people’s club of Bristol, hard-working, give everything you’ve got, a community club, authentic, unbelievable fans,”  

Amazing what a few wins can do for your hubris.

[firstdivision]

The full text. Article by Henry Winter.

It’s a wind-blown morning on a strip of land next to where the M5 crosses the M4. Bristol Rovers defenders are doing a passing drill under Joey Barton. He’s coaxing and cajoling. It’s repetitive but vital work, the nuts and bolts that hold a game plan together. It’s work that underpins why “the Gas” achieved the fifth-most points of the 92 professional clubs in 2022, why they went up from League Two, and why they are eighth in League One.

Because the controversial Barton is in charge, Rovers’ story can often be solely focused on him. There are good people working hard to drive Rovers up. Over the past year, I’ve spent time with the owner, Wael al-Qadi, hearing of his plans for a 20,000-seater stadium, with Tom Gorringe, the chief executive highly regarded within the industry, and Barton himself.

A complex, troubled character, Barton is one of the most promising young managers in the country and is doing remarkable things at Rovers. But before we move on to the football, there is no avoiding the recent headlines over a domestic abuse charge that was dropped after his wife withdrew her evidence.

Barton was charged with assaulting Georgia Barton by beating in Kew, west London, on June 2, 2021. Wimbledon magistrates’ court was told that Georgia dialled 999 and said: “My husband has just hit me in the house.” When the police arrived, she said, “I’ve been pushed down and kicked about and stuff.” The court heard she was left with a bruise the size of a golf ball on her forehead and a bleeding nose after a day of heavy drinking with two other couples.

Women’s Aid, the campaign group, have a “Football United against Domestic Violence” initiative to highlight the problems in society and they work with football to raise awareness. “With an estimated 1.6 million women in England and Wales experiencing domestic abuse every year, it is extremely prevalent across society and the reality is that most perpetrators of domestic abuse will not be convicted,” Teresa Parker, spokesperson for Women’s Aid, tells me.

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“The vast majority living with an abusive partner never access the criminal justice system at all, with under one in five survivors reporting the abuse to the police. The perpetrator might be someone they still have a relationship with, whether their partner or father to their children — or they might be too frightened of the repercussions of telling the police, if their partner is arrested and then later released.”

It’s clear the club were very aware of how divided the fanbase was. “We had supporters who were affected by it, who weren’t comfortable with what they’d read in the press, which was understandable,” Gorringe says. “Joey’s completely aware that many other people [clubs] wouldn’t have given him the support he’s had here.”

If Barton had been found guilty, he would have been dismissed. Georgia wrote to the Crown Prosecution Service on February 17, 2022, saying she was injured accidentally when friends intervened. The case was adjourned to June 23 and dismissed on October 31 after the prosecution refused to call Georgia to give evidence over fears she would give an “exculpatory account” to help her husband.

Barton arrives at Wimbledon magistrates’ court with Georgia in October when the case against him for allegedly assaulting her was dismissed

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So I ask Barton what happened. We are talking in his training ground office on November 8. “There’s been a disagreement, there’s been raised voices, it’s kicked off in the house, drink-related, but we were fine within 24, 48 hours afterwards,” Barton recalls. “I’ve got to stay at our house in London — that’s where they bailed me to — and Georgia’s gone back to our house in Liverpool. There’s a restraining order on you, you’re not allowed to see your own kids, it lasted about ten days. You have social workers coming and siphoning the kids off and asking them questions. They are there to protect people who are being beat up by their partner. I don’t blame the police or the social services. If there’s not a 999 call, if we’re not arguing, then it doesn’t get to that stage.”

Looking back, Barton says: “I was deeply embarrassed. When I picked up the kids from school I was thinking these mums and dads are thinking I’ve been beating my missus up, especially with my narrative. If you knew my background, you’d think, ‘He’s a violent man.’ It couldn’t be further from the truth. Me and my missus very, very rarely argue. She’s been a real strength in my life. I feel really safe when I am with her. I come from a broken home. I feel an outlaw.”

It’s hard to feel sympathy for Barton. Others endure difficult upbringings and do not find themselves in shameful headlines. Football, a world of few morals, has kept giving Barton another chance because of his ability as a player and now as a manager. On December 6, 2021, Barton, then at Fleetwood Town, was cleared of an alleged tunnel altercation with the then Barnsley manager Daniel Stendel in 2019. Barton had “vehemently denied” the charge.

He was going through the legal process relating to the domestic abuse charge and felt himself slipping “lower and lower”. He says: “The Stendel thing, and what happened with my missus, affected me. It absolutely got to me. I reached out to the LMA [League Managers Association] because I was having suicidal thoughts.”

Barton admits that there “were certainly times where I’d have been sectioned” during one particularly difficult patch

PA

It was early last season and results were going against Rovers. “My family had all gone away to Wales camping and the only reason I drove home was I’d got my garden to look after. It’s my addictive personality. I watched Monty Don’s Japanese Gardens and wanted to change my garden where I can rake the stones. The garden had been neglected. I didn’t fancy sleeping in the tent for two nights.

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“I’ll do bits in the garden and then drive to Wales. It’s 2am, I can’t sleep — if we got beaten, I can’t sleep — and I was at a really low ebb. I thought, ‘I’ll do the gardening now.’ I went in my shed and got a miner’s lamp and go in the back garden at 2am. For me this is perfectly rational. I need to weed it. Then I thought, ‘What happens here if the neighbours see me in the garden, think it’s a burglar and phone the police?’ The last thing I need is the police being phoned on me again.”

So he went inside. “No one’s in the house. It’s a lonely place. My brain had lots of thoughts. I knew a few people who suffer from depression. I was thinking, ‘How does someone go from being depressed to wanting to kill themselves?’ That chain of thought happened and I couldn’t stop thinking about suicide. I didn’t want to do it but I couldn’t stop thinking about it. I ended up going into a really dark place. I was anxious. I felt, ‘If I go to sleep here, you’re not going to wake up in the morning, you’re going to die in your sleep, and who’s going to find you?’ So I can’t go to sleep. I put the TV on to distract my mind. 3.30am. I finally went to sleep, and when I woke up I thought, ‘I need to speak to somebody.’

“I phoned Georgia and three or four people. My dad was going, ‘Promise you’re OK? I’m coming.’ There was a picture of our kids in our bedroom, and I was just focusing on that, thinking, ‘Come on, settle.’ ”

Friends and family rallied round. “There were certainly times where I’d have been sectioned,” he says. “If I’d gone and spoken to someone because of the pressures of the job as head coach they would have medicated me. I’ve never classed myself as sane. I find it tough to switch off from football. Football’s an illness. I can’t help but watch, think, consume football. Football’s an addiction that you can’t get therapy for. It’s a terminal illness that I’ll live with until the day I die. It gradually turns your hair grey and puts more lines in your forehead, and then the side of your eyes. It makes me grind my teeth in my sleep. Winning is the medication for the illness.

“I spoke to the LMA and I knew lots of coaches had struggled. I knew it was the pressures of life added to the pressures of management. Mental health is not just players. It affects every single person. There are times when my brain moves so quickly I think I’m going insane. I have to get into meditation, a real good way of slowing my brain down.

“I spoke to people who cared for me. I was really candid and spoke to Georgia. ‘Dychy’ [Sean Dyche] has been really good with me, really candid. I’ve been so fortunate to have good people around me. I wouldn’t have been able to do it without them. I’ve been fortunate that I haven’t had a repeat. People go on antidepressants. That’s not my way. My way is, ‘Find a way out of it.’ ”

Barton says his behavioural issues and reputation left him with “unfulfilled ambition” with regards to his England career

PA:PRESS ASSOCIATION

Barton offers a bit of context: “There are times I walk round and I feel I’m Superman. You give anyone the cards I was dealt early in life, they don’t achieve some of the things I have. But there have been loads of times when I thought, ‘I’m not getting results, can I take this on?’

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“I always have that good and bad wolf talking to me, that’s what made me a great player, the bad wolf saying, ‘You’re shit, you’re going to get found out this weekend, you’re going to be on Match of the Day getting ridiculed, then suddenly you go, good wolf, ‘I’ve played 250-plus games in the Premier League.’ That internal conflict always goes on. As player, as manager, as a person.

“I’m always thinking I’m going mad. I was a good player, well better than the natural talent I was given. I’m 5ft 10in, 75 kilos, playing against people who were 6ft 4in. When I ran into [Patrick] Vieira and Stevie G [Gerrard], they were bigger than me, better, and had more natural talent than me. I wasn’t the most talented player so I had to out-think everybody.”

Now 40, Barton played for Manchester City, Newcastle United, Queens Park Rangers, Burnley and Rangers, had a season on loan with Marseille and was capped once, by Steve McClaren in 2007.

“I have a lot of frustration from unfulfilled ambition,” Barton says. “I didn’t play in the Champions League, although I qualified at Marseille. I didn’t play enough for England, even though if you go and watch that 18 minutes I played against Spain I more than held my own — I could play at that level because they [Spain] went on to win a Euros and a World Cup.

“Behavioural issues were factors used against me. When Fabio Capello was in [charge], I was playing as good as anyone in England for that spell at Newcastle and he says he’s not going to pick me as a loose cannon.”

Barton now pours his energy into management. “I wanted us to be part of the EU but I’ve had enough of us being told that the British were not as good as these foreign coaches,” he says.

Barton made more than 250 Premier League appearances for clubs that included QPR

GETTY IMAGES

“When you are as talented as I am at what I do, and there is a scarcity of talent in the market, all I have to do is stay out of trouble. And that’s not easy for me. The only person who can stop me getting to where I want to get to is me.”

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He’s said it before. He’s been told it before, particularly by his old mentor, Peter Kay, the co-founder of the Sporting Chance rehab clinic, who died in 2013. “Peter used to talk to me about a self-saboteur inside,” Barton adds. “How do I escape? I don’t bet. Luckily one of the vices I got wasn’t women. I never got into prescription meds. I was constantly offered sleeping tablets but I didn’t like the way I felt hollow the next day — I know we have an epidemic of that.

“Drinking has been a huge problem in my life. I’ve stopped intermittently. You’re drinking to escape life, drinking to black out. When Wayne [Rooney] spoke about it [binge drinking, last February] I could completely understand. I’ve always thought, ‘How did he deal with the pressures?’ People forget we’re normal people. I walk around the streets and can’t be myself. I can’t go anywhere. I’m not at David Beckham’s level, but even in London, it’s constant [attention]. I wish I had a mask. Nobody knew who I was during Covid.

“I’ve never, ever liked it [the fame]. I’m a kid off a council estate. It opens a few doors but, overwhelmingly, fame has been bad for me. It’s got me in all sorts of trouble, people have had an argument with me and being the street fighter like I am, I ain’t backing down. Don’t forget, my dad brought me up to survive on a council estate. Where I grew up, the challenge is just staying alive every day. You’re ducking and diving, making sure that you make it to school without getting stabbed and you get home without getting stabbed. It’s a jungle out there.”

I mention again that others grew up in difficult circumstances and have not got themselves into trouble.

This constant “noise”, I ask Barton, does he need it? “I don’t thrive off it, albeit I can survive. Some people are war prime ministers like Winston Churchill, some people are peace prime ministers. I do function really well in times of war. I do. I prefer not to. The way Wael and the supporters have been with me, I want to stay here until I put them in the Premier League. I can get Rovers up, absolutely. We were in a death spiral when I joined. Standards were low. But I knew I had a really great owner. When I was going through a bad run of results, Wael said, ‘You can lose the next 50 games and I won’t get rid of you.’ ”

Despite the troubles, al-Qadi’s faith has not wavered since the moment he decided to appoint him. “I felt Joe was exactly what was needed to shake this place up,” al-Qadi says. “He’s played at the highest level, he’s a winner, very passionate, the kind of guy who elevates the club to where we want it to be.”

Barton says “no coaches talk like I do” but that his honesty is one of his best traits

ADRIAN SHERRATT

That includes a new ground. “We are crying out for a modern stadium,” al-Qadi says. “What we have now [the Memorial Stadium] is an old, dilapidated rugby stadium. Bristol Rovers are like the Boca Juniors of Bristol, the first club of Bristol — five generations of fans come to games and it’s truly great to have. This my passion, my love.”

Gorringe moved from Brighton & Hove Albion because he could see Rovers’ potential. “If you look at the city, we are the people’s club of Bristol, hard-working, give everything you’ve got, a community club, authentic, unbelievable fans,” Gorringe says. “Joe encapsulates that underdog spirit. He cares about everyone here.”

Back on the training field, Barton’s meticulousness is at work. “We do sessions where we just pass the ball for an hour, right foot, left foot, the right spin has to be on it, the right pace has to be on it,” Barton says. “I’m very, very fortunate I came from a centre of excellence at Everton where from seven years of age we were focused on the details.”

Barton certainly doesn’t hold back when offering opinions. “No coaches talk like I do. I might lose my job, Wael might get pissed off and say ‘get the **** out the club’ but I have to be cards on the table. Coaching ability is about man-management, emotional management, psychology,” he says. “We say a morning prayer before we start the session because my theory is if there is a God, we might as well ask him to look after us.”

Barton called out one player for not having his boot laces done up right. “I don’t miss anything: ‘Do your ****ing laces up.’ We work hard. We had Elliot Anderson [of Newcastle]. We’ve got Glenn Whelan, 91 caps for his country [Ireland]. We’ve got Scott Sinclair, who’s got 500-plus games.”

Whelan comes off the field for a chat, shirt soaked in sweat. Sinclair stays back a little longer, practising finishing. These old pros set the right tone for Rovers’ in-form forwards, Josh Coburn (on loan from Middlesbrough) and Aaron Collins. “I expect excellence. I want to put a blue flag down in this city that everyone who comes after me says, ‘He’s the guy to follow.’ I’ve been humbled by this job. I’ve learnt so much here. I know I am going to get to the top,” says Joey Barton, good manager, flawed man.

 

[GTFABM]

29 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Even if we lose and Blackpool win we are very unlikely to drop into the bottom 3 today given our goal difference. Even if we did drop in it would be on goal difference only and there remain 19 games to get out.

We do not need to win today.

Thats alright then

[City oz]

What does Tom know. Was he not the Women,s team director at Brighton. He also has some administration history with our not so good friends across the bridge many years ago as the Blue Birds Food and Beverage Manager.

[cidercity1987]

Boca Juniors of Bristol 

[Sir Geoff]

Pearson not a coach, then what does he do ?

I don't recall hearing Man Ure fans complaining that Fergie wasn't a coach.

Clubs do appoint the head of the football club in different roles you know. Head Coach more often these days or Manager as in Pearson and Fergie.

[ExiledAjax]

Just now, GTFABM said:

Thats alright then

That's not what I said. I did not say it's alright. There can be nuance to the Pearson debate, and nuance to ones position on him.

Do I want us to win? Of course. Am I happy with us being where we are? No.

But do we need to win? Is a win "required" today in particular? No not really. 

All can be simultaneously true.

[ExiledAjax]

23 minutes ago, firstdivision said:

"We are crying out for a modern stadium,” al-Qadi says. “What we have now [the Memorial Stadium] is an old, dilapidated rugby stadium. Bristol Rovers are like the Boca Juniors of Bristol, the first club of Bristol — five generations of fans come to games and it’s truly great to have. This my passion, my love.”

And this from the chief executive:

Gorringe moved from Brighton & Hove Albion because he could see Rovers’ potential. “If you look at the city, we are the people’s club of Bristol, hard-working, give everything you’ve got, a community club, authentic, unbelievable fans,” 

It ties in with something very odd that I heard recently. My brother-in-law recently moved to Bristol as his wife is from our great City. Unfortunately his wife's friends are Gas and took him under his wing before I really knew what was happening. He's been to the Mem once or twice and appears to have been indoctrinated into the way of the Black Arabs.

Anyway, we were on a family holiday and he mentioned that one reason he liked the Gas was that City are "...a bit fascist and are the right-wing club in Bristol." Without getting into a political debate this comment just generally surprised me. I'd never heard us described like that before, and especially in comparison to the Gas being the "left-wing" club.

This Boca Juniors comment reminded me of this, as my understanding of Buenos Aires is that Boca are the left-wing, working class club and River Plate are the wealthier, generally more conservative, right-wing club. Or at least that's the perception. Therefore if the Gas are Boca, are we not River Plate?

[Silvio Dante]

To be fair, and as expected from Henry Winter, it’s a really good piece. Yes, Barton comes across as an idiot at times but also a self aware idiot, and Winters clearly highlighted his bad side as opposed to being a puff piece.

I think reducing the piece to a couple of rubbish quotes probably isn’t the call here. It’s good writing and well worth reading.

[Galley is our king]

55 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Somebody and nobody.

And everybody....

[RedRock]

Wouldn’t even say coaching, player selection, tactics or substitutions are the main issues. As ever, recruitment appears our weakest hand. Why the hell our administration can’t see this is beyond me. 

Sykes is the classic Bristol City signing. Months on, still not a clue what his strengths are, where his best position is.

I’m still a Pearson supporter, but ‘must do better’ is at the bottom of my performance report for him - despite all his fine words and reassuring interviews.

And if Tins thinks Bell or Lowe were/are ready for the first team, I not sure if he’s the recruitment-improvement solution frankly.

[City oz]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

Even if we lose and Blackpool win we are very unlikely to drop into the bottom 3 today given our goal difference. Even if we did drop in it would be on goal difference only and there remain 19 games to get out.

We do not need to win today.

"we do not need to win today" Hmmmmm

[london_Cider_red]

31 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Pearson not a coach, then what does he do ?

I don't recall hearing Man Ure fans complaining that Fergie wasn't a coach.

Clubs do appoint the head of the football club in different roles you know. Head Coach more often these days or Manager as in Pearson and Fergie.

 

5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Nice one for putting a lot of effort into writing this.  Comments in line above.

Some very fair comments and also a fair bit I didn’t know about, definitely missed the press conference. 

Thanks for reading and replying

[london_Cider_red]

34 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Pearson not a coach, then what does he do ?

I don't recall hearing Man Ure fans complaining that Fergie wasn't a coach.

Clubs do appoint the head of the football club in different roles you know. Head Coach more often these days or Manager as in Pearson and Fergie.

I admit he does more than I gave him credit for but are you really trying to compare Pearson to Fergie

[Peter1450]

Just highlights to me how delusional people around football are, Barton’s taking  the Gas to the Premiership just like a certain owner South of the River has been eluding too for the past two decades.