Bristol R*vers dustbin thread

[In the Net]

34 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

The alternative is to build a side predominantly of your own players supplemented by the odd loanee that steamrollers the division and also wins the Michael Mouse Cup for good measure.......I'm sure somebody did that about ten or so years ago..........managed by a "Dinosaur" (that's how some Scouse Manager yet to achieve anything approaching that described him a few weeks back).

Ten years is a long time in football, things have changed on the financial front.  You won't find many League One and Two clubs who don't have several loanees on the matchday teamsheet.  Sad, as I much preferred the days of more local players in teams.

[Homer Simpson]

31 minutes ago, Jim Davey said:

Who is Ryan loft ?

Gone right over my head with that one.

[RedLionLad]

Since yesterday’s result, Joey has retracted his earlier statement

[Kodjias Wrist]

16 minutes ago, In the Net said:

Ten years is a long time in football, things have changed on the financial front.  You won't find many League One and Two clubs who don't have several loanees on the matchday teamsheet.  Sad, as I much preferred the days of more local players in teams.

Yes sometimes I feel as though the smaller clubs in league 2 and 1 may aswell do away with their academy. 

[Red-Robbo]

3 minutes ago, RedLionLad said:

Since yesterday’s result, Joey has retracted his earlier statement

 

Be fair. He didn't specify which premier league. 

 

[steviestevieneville]

@Deluded Sagcome on mouthy . As Delilah Smith would say .WHERE ARE YOU , LETS BE  HAVING YOU . 

[Son of Fred]

2 hours ago, Marcus Aurelius said:

A couple of days ago they would "smash us" if they were to play us in the league, now half their squad can't cut the "step up" to League One.

I have to admit I'm confused - are they now not 'coming' for us??

[bcfc01]

11 minutes ago, In the Net said:

Ten years is a long time in football, things have changed on the financial front.  You won't find many League One and Two clubs who don't have several loanees on the matchday teamsheet.  Sad, as I much preferred the days of more local players in teams.

Those days haven't gone.

Clubs that had the foresight to invest in FA academies produce their own players on a regular basis, there is one just south of the river in this city.

Of course, those clubs with FA academies need to employ managers who can see the worth and are interested in developing young players for the first team.  

Money would be better spent on this, rather than being dependent upon and paying for loanees who become surplus to requirements, or who return to their own clubs thankful that another club has improved them free of charge or attracting a payment in some cases.

I can see the point of one or two loanees, but half a team is excessive and counter productive in the medium to long term.

Just now, Kodjias Wrist said:

Yes sometimes I feel as though the smaller clubs in league 2 and 1 may aswell do away with their academy. 

Agreed, if they aren't serious about investing in them or if they have managers/board who ignore them, they become a bit pointless.

Cotterill didn't appear to have time for the academy, but did really well managing his own way for a short time. I'm pretty sure that played a part in his departure in the end, the club wanted to see a return from the academy and we can see that now happening with knobs on - 6 academy or ex-academy players on the pitch against WBA (not for the first time either). And some ex-academy players bringing in millions for the club.

A Cat3 academy costs around 1m per year to run which may be beyond some clubs, but it shouldn't be beyond most L1 clubs.

[BS3City]

2 hours ago, Marcus Aurelius said:

A couple of days ago they would "smash us" if they were to play us in the league, now half their squad can't cut the "step up" to League One.

Interesting comment from "tbonegas (Reserve Team)" that you can do a Mykonos tour from Bodrum.

I never knew that - are they non-league too?

[In the Net]

34 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Those days haven't gone.

Clubs that had the foresight to invest in FA academies produce their own players on a regular basis, there is one just south of the river in this city.

Of course, those clubs with FA academies need to employ managers who can see the worth and are interested in developing young players for the first team.  

Money would be better spent on this, rather than being dependent upon and paying for loanees who become surplus to requirements, or who return to their own clubs thankful that another club has improved them free of charge or attracting a payment in some cases.

I can see the point of one or two loanees, but half a team is excessive and counter productive in the medium to long term.

Agreed, if they aren't serious about investing in them or if they have managers/board who ignore them, they become a bit pointless.

Cotterill didn't appear to have time for the academy, but did really well managing his own way for a short time. I'm pretty sure that played a part in his departure in the end, the club wanted to see a return from the academy and we can see that now happening with knobs on - 6 academy or ex-academy players on the pitch against WBA (not for the first time either). And some ex-academy players bringing in millions for the club.

A Cat3 academy costs around 1m per year to run which may be beyond some clubs, but it shouldn't be beyond most L1 clubs.

Loanees usually have a large chunk of their wages paid for by the parent club.  As I said, I would prefer developing youth players, however, the majority of League One and Two clubs do rely on having half a dozen players from the loan market - that's the way the finances are managed these days.

Gold star for the club South of the river, who's enormous losses are bankrolled by their billionaire owner - you are not comparing like for like.

[RedHienz]

3 minutes ago, In the Net said:

Loanees usually have a large chunk of their wages paid for by the parent club.  As I said, I would prefer developing youth players, however, the majority of League One and Two clubs do rely on having half a dozen players from the loan market - that's the way the finances are managed these days.

Gold star for the club South of the river, who's enormous losses are bankrolled by their billionaire owner - you are not comparing like for like.

How much has your fake billionaire pumped into you? Gold star for going to the standard saggy go to 

[Numero Uno]

13 minutes ago, In the Net said:

Loanees usually have a large chunk of their wages paid for by the parent club.  As I said, I would prefer developing youth players, however, the majority of League One and Two clubs do rely on having half a dozen players from the loan market - that's the way the finances are managed these days.

Gold star for the club South of the river, who's enormous losses are bankrolled by their billionaire owner - you are not comparing like for like.

What sort of losses are you making?

[Silvio Dante]

4 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

What sort of losses are you making?

None that couldn’t be covered by the sale of a very nice watch, allegedly!

[chucky]

17 minutes ago, In the Net said:

Loanees usually have a large chunk of their wages paid for by the parent club.  As I said, I would prefer developing youth players, however, the majority of League One and Two clubs do rely on having half a dozen players from the loan market - that's the way the finances are managed these days.

Gold star for the club South of the river, who's enormous losses are bankrolled by their billionaire owner - you are not comparing like for like.

SL has also pumped an extremely large amount of money into the infrastructure. Massive stadium improvements, the Big performance centre. What's your owner spent? I don't think he's bought a single player, has he? 

[steviestevieneville]

20 minutes ago, In the Net said:

Loanees usually have a large chunk of their wages paid for by the parent club.  As I said, I would prefer developing youth players, however, the majority of League One and Two clubs do rely on having half a dozen players from the loan market - that's the way the finances are managed these days.

Gold star for the club South of the river, who's enormous losses are bankrolled by their billionaire owner - you are not comparing like for like.

Well at least you’re not bitter about it. You got your own billion , oh wait that was a lie wasn’t it. Got a nice watch though

 

all joking aside , it’s not sustainable having so many loans, you can’t build a proper squad that way . One or two yes as we had with Tammy who almost single handedly kept us up . You got away with it last season . That geordie lad was obviously way too good for league two 

[TheReds]

24 minutes ago, In the Net said:

Loanees usually have a large chunk of their wages paid for by the parent club.  As I said, I would prefer developing youth players, however, the majority of League One and Two clubs do rely on having half a dozen players from the loan market - that's the way the finances are managed these days.

Gold star for the club South of the river, who's enormous losses are bankrolled by their billionaire owner - you are not comparing like for like.

One thing I have never understood with these types of comments is they never mention any assets or infrastructure?

How much has Lansdown put in?

How much is everything worth as it stands - including training facilities, academy, players, the planning granted for the future, how much once all of that is finished? 

 

Now how much has Wael put in so far?

How much are all of your assets worth? 

[ExiledAjax]

Guys, lay off. The Gas only publish accounts for a small company. It's unfair to expect either of their fans to know any of these tough financial questions.

Before you ask a "small company" must meet at least 2 of the following conditions:

1. annual turnover must be not more than £10.2 million
2. the balance sheet total must be not more than £5.1 million
3. the average number of employees must be not more than 50.

Given they're a football club, it's unlikely they qualify for number 3 above. So deduce from that what you will.

Edited January 29, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[In the Net]

3 minutes ago, TheReds said:

One thing I have never understood with these types of comments is they never mention any assets or infrastructure?

How much has Lansdown put in?

How much is everything worth as it stands - including training facilities, academy, players, the planning granted for the future, how much once all of that is finished? 

 

Now how much has Wael put in so far?

How much are all of your assets worth? 

We were discussing the merits and  financial practicalities of developing your own players. Wael never stated that he was a billionaire, I think the EP ran a typically inaccurate article about him being the 5th wealthiest owner, or something ridiculous, and our more naive fans lapped it up.  Similarly it was the EP who managed to write a whole article about the watch Wael wears.  This says more about the local rag that it does our owner.

On the stadium front, of course Lansdown has turned AG into a very good venue - I've seen it for myself when attending a concert.  At the moment Wael has delivered a training ground, whereas we have previously rented.  I wonder how many of those who criticise it have been shown around the facilities there?  There is further work planned, hence you can find photographs which show the unfinished bits, and try and portray it as an accurate portrayal of what is there, if that makes you feel superior. 

Comparing Lansdown and Wael is like comparing apples and pears, with regards to their personal wealth.  Fair play that Lansdown has backed the club for so many years, shame that his enthusiasm doesn't seem to have filtered down the gene pool.  It's a big ask for him to find an investor who will be as committed as he is. 

[bcfc01]

35 minutes ago, In the Net said:

Loanees usually have a large chunk of their wages paid for by the parent club.  As I said, I would prefer developing youth players, however, the majority of League One and Two clubs do rely on having half a dozen players from the loan market - that's the way the finances are managed these days.

Gold star for the club South of the river, who's enormous losses are bankrolled by their billionaire owner - you are not comparing like for like.

I wasn't comparing, I was stating an opinion.

However, the losses have been bankrolled by the Lansdowns to an extent, but when you factor in the amount made thus far from academy graduates it amounts to around 40m with potentially another 25m+ next season. Addidtionally, the investment by the Lansdowns will see the valuation of the assets exceed what they have invested. You are correct in that it will be difficult to get an investor who is as committed as the Lansdowns, but there is interest and we will see what happens.

You are correct, there is absolutely no comparison with your club.

[lenred]

52 minutes ago, In the Net said:

Loanees usually have a large chunk of their wages paid for by the parent club.  As I said, I would prefer developing youth players, however, the majority of League One and Two clubs do rely on having half a dozen players from the loan market - that's the way the finances are managed these days.

Gold star for the club South of the river, who's enormous losses are bankrolled by their billionaire owner - you are not comparing like for like.

Plenty of talent in the South West you could be developing but any youth player who’s anywhere near half decent wouldn’t come near your shithole of a club.   Given your manager is prone to stubbing out cigars in youth players eyes,  it’s probably just as well. 

[NcnsBcfc]

16 minutes ago, In the Net said:

We were discussing the merits and  financial practicalities of developing your own players. Wael never stated that he was a billionaire, I think the EP ran a typically inaccurate article about him being the 5th wealthiest owner, or something ridiculous, and our more naive fans lapped it up.  Similarly it was the EP who managed to write a whole article about the watch Wael wears.  This says more about the local rag that it does our owner.

On the stadium front, of course Lansdown has turned AG into a very good venue - I've seen it for myself when attending a concert.  At the moment Wael has delivered a training ground, whereas we have previously rented.  I wonder how many of those who criticise it have been shown around the facilities there?  There is further work planned, hence you can find photographs which show the unfinished bits, and try and portray it as an accurate portrayal of what is there, if that makes you feel superior. 

Comparing Lansdown and Wael is like comparing apples and pears, with regards to their personal wealth.  Fair play that Lansdown has backed the club for so many years, shame that his enthusiasm doesn't seem to have filtered down the gene pool.  It's a big ask for him to find an investor who will be as committed as he is. 

All fair points @In the Net.

I think for me though, the Fruit market potential stadium saga would set alarm bells ringing if i was a Rover's fan.

At present, you have the stadium, and adjourning land in Horfield which is worth no doubt a considerable amount.

If i've read the proposal correctly. You will give all of these assets to the Fruit Market developer, who will build you a stadium, and then charge you rent to play there? The maths don't add up for me. 

Lansdown has obviously got planning permission for an area of land to build homes on, and part of this money will go towards the Sportong Quarter development. It was the same principle behind the failed AV stadium (thank you Bristol City Council )

I don't get why your club doesn't develop the Horfield site yourself, and then build your own stadium, whether at the Fruit Market or elsewhere?

It's akin to having a paid off 500k house,  and giving it away to a landlord. Who then builds you a 250k house, and charges you rent to live there.

Smacks of the Eastville scenario all over again, and where other clubs (Coventry being a good recent example) have fallen foul of 3rd party ownership of their stadium.

Why isn't Wael looking to do this new stadium himself, do you think?

[NcnsBcfc]

19 minutes ago, lenred said:

Plenty of talent in the South West you could be developing but any youth player who’s anywhere near half decent wouldn’t come near your shithole of a club.   Given your manager is prone to stubbing out cigars in youth players eyes,  it’s probably just as well. 

Just another point around this.

Would Barton be allowed to train under 18s?

From my understanding of the FA welfare/safeguarding charter he would be unlikely to be given a DBS/CRB clearance to have any involvement with kid's development.

Unless of course, the family club that when he was charged with Domestic abuse, whilst on Crown Court bail for another serious assault still refused to suspend him, or put him on any sort of gardening leave whilst the matters where sorted out, doesn't require that sort of thing.

I'm not sure what sort of message that sends out to the wider public of the "ethical and Moral" ethos of club.

Edited January 29, 2023 by NcnsBcfc

[TheReds]

42 minutes ago, In the Net said:

We were discussing the merits and  financial practicalities of developing your own players. Wael never stated that he was a billionaire, I think the EP ran a typically inaccurate article about him being the 5th wealthiest owner, or something ridiculous, and our more naive fans lapped it up.  Similarly it was the EP who managed to write a whole article about the watch Wael wears.  This says more about the local rag that it does our owner.

On the stadium front, of course Lansdown has turned AG into a very good venue - I've seen it for myself when attending a concert.  At the moment Wael has delivered a training ground, whereas we have previously rented.  I wonder how many of those who criticise it have been shown around the facilities there?  There is further work planned, hence you can find photographs which show the unfinished bits, and try and portray it as an accurate portrayal of what is there, if that makes you feel superior. 

Comparing Lansdown and Wael is like comparing apples and pears, with regards to their personal wealth.  Fair play that Lansdown has backed the club for so many years, shame that his enthusiasm doesn't seem to have filtered down the gene pool.  It's a big ask for him to find an investor who will be as committed as he is. 

I didn't realise you were only discussing the developing of our own players, Your comment said the following "Gold star for the club South of the river, who's enormous losses are bankrolled by their billionaire owner "

So you are only saying we have had our owner bankrolling the development of our own players, and nothing else whatsoever - and from this he has had enormous losses? The only "enormous losses" you mention is from the whole club as far as I am aware, but please do tell me something I obviously do not know?

If that's is the case then how much have we lost from this bankrolled project in developing our own players? 

Asking how much Wael has put in is just trying to show that he isn't making any profit, and what does he have to show for it. Our "enormous losses" against your losses, assets, infrastructure etc would maybe show that we are nowhere near as bad as what most Rovers fans want to think, and what the poor rosy face lady garden has squandered away. 

Most of your post seems to have nothing to do with anything I have asked or mentioned. But as you mention he has never said he was a Billionaire etc, and everything seems to be the BPs faults, didn't he quite happily said he could have bought most of the Premier League clubs when interviewed and he was asked why he chose your mob?

[bcfc01]

3 minutes ago, TheReds said:

didn't he quite happily said he could have bought most of the Premier League clubs when interviewed and he was asked why he chose your mob?

After being shown the door by Gillingham..

[petehinton]

1 hour ago, In the Net said:

Loanees usually have a large chunk of their wages paid for by the parent club.  As I said, I would prefer developing youth players, however, the majority of League One and Two clubs do rely on having half a dozen players from the loan market - that's the way the finances are managed these days.

Gold star for the club South of the river, who's enormous losses are bankrolled by their billionaire owner - you are not comparing like for like.

Not if you actually have a good set up, get your structure in place and feed off a good academy. Exeter have done it for years and years and are the example that it really can be done in lower leagues. They’re really reaping the rewards now. Ryan Jones should’ve been more involved last season, he absolutely can make the step up if believed in and backed. But Barton seems more content on throwing players under the bus and replacing them with loanees or short term signings. Dropping Belshaw for that new keeper who’d basically never played the level should be something he’s nailed for, he was at fault for almost every goal, but as he’s a messiah he won’t be. It’s no way to navigate. It’s basically what LJ did here and it set us 5 years back. 
 

Gold star definitely for the club south of the river who have a cat 2 academy, consistently producing our own players, found in the very same area that the Fewers can develop in to but don’t have the set up or foundations to, and selling them for huge money into the PL or allowing them to carve out careers, rather than live season to season with lucky loans or have a good player for a season or two then sell him for a whopping £1m.

Is Scott Sinclair still the only player you can actually claim as your own? Despite him jumping ship at 16. Also surprising King Joey was saying in the summer he had to ‘rein Wael in’ on spending big fees even though you could, now somehow claiming woe is me for not having the capabilities too.
 

It will come home to roost. You lot seem to all in on him, despite him not really setting anything up. it’s concerning from the outside in, ‘rivals’ or not. 

[Unan]

21 minutes ago, TheReds said:

I didn't realise you were only discussing the developing of our own players, Your comment said the following "Gold star for the club South of the river, who's enormous losses are bankrolled by their billionaire owner "

So you are only saying we have had our owner bankrolling the development of our own players, and nothing else whatsoever - and from this he has had enormous losses? The only "enormous losses" you mention is from the whole club as far as I am aware, but please do tell me something I obviously do not know?

If that's is the case then how much have we lost from this bankrolled project in developing our own players? 

Asking how much Wael has put in is just trying to show that he isn't making any profit, and what does he have to show for it. Our "enormous losses" against your losses, assets, infrastructure etc would maybe show that we are nowhere near as bad as what most Rovers fans want to think, and what the poor rosy face lady garden has squandered away. 

Most of your post seems to have nothing to do with anything I have asked or mentioned. But as you mention he has never said he was a Billionaire etc, and everything seems to be the BPs faults, didn't he quite happily said he could have bought most of the Premier League clubs when interviewed and he was asked why he chose your mob?

“who's enormous losses are bankrolled by their billionaire owner “

This has to be one of the most uninformed & frankly stupid comments that I see quite often. Every single Championship club is a loss leading business ran by a multi hundred millionaire, or billionaire, owner, and has been for a very long time.

[In the Net]

1 hour ago, lenred said:

Plenty of talent in the South West you could be developing but any youth player who’s anywhere near half decent wouldn’t come near your shithole of a club.   Given your manager is prone to stubbing out cigars in youth players eyes,  it’s probably just as well. 

Rather strange then that Newcastle, Liverpool, Everton, Stoke, and Cardiff have been happy to entrust some of their talented young players to be developed under JB. 

[In the Net]

50 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Not if you actually have a good set up, get your structure in place and feed off a good academy. Exeter have done it for years and years and are the example that it really can be done in lower leagues. They’re really reaping the rewards now. Ryan Jones should’ve been more involved last season, he absolutely can make the step up if believed in and backed. But Barton seems more content on throwing players under the bus and replacing them with loanees or short term signings. Dropping Belshaw for that new keeper who’d basically never played the level should be something he’s nailed for, he was at fault for almost every goal, but as he’s a messiah he won’t be. It’s no way to navigate. It’s basically what LJ did here and it set us 5 years back. 
 

Gold star definitely for the club south of the river who have a cat 2 academy, consistently producing our own players, found in the very same area that the Fewers can develop in to but don’t have the set up or foundations to, and selling them for huge money into the PL or allowing them to carve out careers, rather than live season to season with lucky loans or have a good player for a season or two then sell him for a whopping £1m.

Is Scott Sinclair still the only player you can actually claim as your own? Despite him jumping ship at 16. Also surprising King Joey was saying in the summer he had to ‘rein Wael in’ on spending big fees even though you could, now somehow claiming woe is me for not having the capabilities too.
 

It will come home to roost. You lot seem to all in on him, despite him not really setting anything up. it’s concerning from the outside in, ‘rivals’ or not. 

Ah, would that be the same Exeter who currently have 5 loan players in their squad, the same as us?

[lenred]

Just now, In the Net said:

Rather strange then that Newcastle, Liverpool, Everton, Stoke, and Cardiff have been happy to entrust some of their talented young players to be developed under JB. 

We’re talking about youth development not loans.   Not like a Gashead to change the subject though.  Also interesting that you seem to find the fact that your manager stubbed a cigar out on a kids face funny.   You must really be a believer. 

[In the Net]

43 minutes ago, Marcus Aurelius said:

“who's enormous losses are bankrolled by their billionaire owner “

This has to be one of the most uninformed & frankly stupid comments that I see quite often. Every single Championship club is a loss leading business ran by a multi hundred millionaire, or billionaire, owner, and has been for a very long time.

You're not really telling me anything new, that's how football is these days.  Lansdown is one of the more generous owners I believe.