Midlands Robin Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 I can never quite get my head around these financial statements but as far as I can see it, as well as the charge against the ground from this new mortgage, Wally's 2017 charge against the club / ground is still outstanding but I've no idea what value remains on it, and their last set of accounts seems to show they're currently over 7 million pounds in the red. This is an increase of over 3 million in debt since last year. Is thst correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Dante Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 12 minutes ago, Midlands Robin said: I can never quite get my head around these financial statements but as far as I can see it, as well as the charge against the ground from this new mortgage, Wally's 2017 charge against the club / ground is still outstanding but I've no idea what value remains on it, and their last set of accounts seems to show they're currently over 7 million pounds in the red. This is an increase of over 3 million in debt since last year. Is thst correct? Looking at the Nationwide charge document it doesn’t state the amount. However, as clause 11 of the document states: “The Mortgagors will keep the property in good condition”, they may already be in breach! 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 4 hours ago, Silvio Dante said: What’s interesting here is that the lender is Nationwide Finance, not affiliated with Nationwide Building Society. Not familiar with their work but they appear to be very small scale - latest accounts suggest c£30m of debtors which isn’t much at all, and also look at secured loan terms of up to six years. We’re talking fairly short term finance here on a secured basis which is unusual - could be argued that there is intent there if the fruit market is on the horizon, but equally there’ll be a premium for such a transaction and the fact Wallys gone down this route wouldn’t imbue me with confidence! Interesting. Based in Milton Keynes and aimed at small business startups. Their website states they don't need to look at clients' credit scores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfc01 Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 Pay day loan ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Dante Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Midlands Robin said: I can never quite get my head around these financial statements but as far as I can see it, as well as the charge against the ground from this new mortgage, Wally's 2017 charge against the club / ground is still outstanding but I've no idea what value remains on it, and their last set of accounts seems to show they're currently over 7 million pounds in the red. This is an increase of over 3 million in debt since last year. Is thst correct? Looking at their accounts briefly, from 21-22 the amount owed to group undertakings increased by £4.5m to £7.0m. I’d say that the amount is likely owed to Dwane. The limitation of that charge is £10m. So, if we work on a similar amount of increase in group undertakings YOY then they’re kicking up against the limit of the facility. The company owns “fair value” investment property worth £11.1m - I think that’s the Memorial site as it predates their training ground from what I can see. Wally has previously converted interest due on the loan to shares. It’s possible the increase in debt is accrued interest once more (however that would mean Wally is charging an eye watering rate). My base, quick, conclusion is that this loan will be used to pay the debt to Dwane to allow interest to continue to accrue and not exceed the limit, and also mean Wally doesn’t have to do another share conversion. Essentially, it looks likely that Wallys borrowed money via the football club to reduce the money it owes to him. Edit: And this is why Wally needs the fruit market, and has also now released details far before it’s ready, and also why they’ll be tenants - essentially selling the Mem just clears the debt to Wally and they have nothing to bring to the FM site. He’s not willing to put more in currently hence the Nationwide loan. They are in big, big shit - and if the FM doesn’t happen, there looks to be a strong potential of pulling the plug. Edited May 10, 2023 by Silvio Dante 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Dante Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 12 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: Interesting. Based in Milton Keynes and aimed at small business startups. Their website states they don't need to look at clients' credit scores. I think I might have figured it - see latest post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 My mate is up there emptying the bins . He said the tents coming down . Two blokes on a ladder 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Dante Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 (edited) For balance, just went on their forum. They seem to think it’s linked to the construction of the new stand. This special belter thinks that construction of a single tier temporary structure will cost £5m (because those projects don’t need planning, you spend that much when you’re leaving shortly and the stand will be constructed in two months, obvs), and despite it being a replacement for existing tents, will generate all totally “new” income. They’re special. Edited May 10, 2023 by Silvio Dante 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Open End Numb Legs Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 22 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said: My mate is up there emptying the bins . He said the tents coming down . Two blokes on a ladder I hope it is only one on the ladder and the other one footing it! I guess at least the club is climbing up something, if not the L1 table.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartibartfast Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 16 hours ago, cidercity1987 said: Is that a kin to us having a party up Lockleaze TV Tower? At least you could see the County Ground . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petehinton Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 All this, loans to paper over lost money, construction of semi permanent structures in a ground they may or may not move from, after paying money to evaluate some land they may or may not move to… All whilst their manager says they will make a push for the play offs next season, after finishing 27 points behind it this season, needs 12 players after signing 30 odd in the last two windows, they’re reliant on loans and their owner scrapped the academy because he genuinely thinks an area the size of Bristol and Somerset that has 3 specialised RTCs in doesn’t produce enough talent to warrant it…. They are a mess :laugh: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOTBLUE Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 33 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said: My mate is up there emptying the bins . He said the tents coming down . Two blokes on a ladder Were there any players in the bins,or just bits of an old tent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartibartfast Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 8 hours ago, Olé said: That new L shaped lego South Stand to replace the tent and temporary tennis stand. Doesn’t have planning permission yet and Wael is already mortgaging the ground to fund it. This should end well. That "thing" on the far side looks a bit like a cricket scoreboard........... perhaps they're not confident of keeping visiting teams down to non-cricket scores ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartibartfast Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said: Joe needs to be careful here. If he looks in the mirror and sees someone with makeup, earrings and a nice outfit staring back at him he’s liable to punch himself. Sorry, who T F's Gibbo ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 46 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said: Looking at their accounts briefly, from 21-22 the amount owed to group undertakings increased by £4.5m to £7.0m. I’d say that the amount is likely owed to Dwane. The limitation of that charge is £10m. So, if we work on a similar amount of increase in group undertakings YOY then they’re kicking up against the limit of the facility. The company owns “fair value” investment property worth £11.1m - I think that’s the Memorial site as it predates their training ground from what I can see. Wally has previously converted interest due on the loan to shares. It’s possible the increase in debt is accrued interest once more (however that would mean Wally is charging an eye watering rate). My base, quick, conclusion is that this loan will be used to pay the debt to Dwane to allow interest to continue to accrue and not exceed the limit, and also mean Wally doesn’t have to do another share conversion. Essentially, it looks likely that Wallys borrowed money via the football club to reduce the money it owes to him. Edit: And this is why Wally needs the fruit market, and has also now released details far before it’s ready, and also why they’ll be tenants - essentially selling the Mem just clears the debt to Wally and they have nothing to bring to the FM site. He’s not willing to put more in currently hence the Nationwide loan. They are in big, big shit - and if the FM doesn’t happen, there looks to be a strong potential of pulling the plug. Since Wael took sole ownership the limit for the revolving credit facility being based upon the £10m charge held has gone away. It did indeed look like a hard limit, such that the credit limit would be hit and that meant no more money, when there was family ownership of Dwane Sports but that's no longer the case, the loan has exceeded it by a large amount in the past. Taking out a commercial loan for the stand is a good way of bringing some proper financial rigour to the organisation, I thought similar when the Lansdowns financed the stadium construction with a third party loan so making the stadium pay for itself by its revenues paying the interest on and repaying those capital loans. It is then easy to see whether it is a genuine commercial success or just another "Steve, send us another cheque, mate, we've spent the last one" venture reminiscent of the Gary Johnson and Mark Ashton days. Financially they are very similar to us, albeit on a much smaller scale, they have a wealthy owner who spent loads of money but hasn;t advanced teh league position much and is now trying to bring the club into better financial shape. I'm not waving a flag for them because I cannot see how any club can have such a dreadful person as their manager, but financially they are in no worse a position than we are. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaverface Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 46 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said: For balance, just went on their forum. They seem to think it’s linked to the construction of the new stand. This special belter thinks that construction of a single tier temporary structure will cost £5m (because those projects don’t need planning, you spend that much when you’re leaving shortly and the stand will be constructed in two months, obvs), and despite it being a replacement for existing tents, will generate all totally “new” income. They’re special. I know the Gash fans aren't prone to exaggeration, but where did he get an uptake of 3500 extra seats? According to the official statement, Wael suggested an extra 2500 seats (https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/bristol-rovers-new-south-stand-8398066) The above estimates also rely on a sell out each home match to bring in the additional revenue. Aside from that, it all makes sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bert tann Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 15 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said: Since Wael took sole ownership the limit for the revolving credit facility being based upon the £10m charge held has gone away. It did indeed look like a hard limit, such that the credit limit would be hit and that meant no more money, when there was family ownership of Dwane Sports but that's no longer the case, the loan has exceeded it by a large amount in the past. Taking out a commercial loan for the stand is a good way of bringing some proper financial rigour to the organisation, I thought similar when the Lansdowns financed the stadium construction with a third party loan so making the stadium pay for itself by its revenues paying the interest on and repaying those capital loans. It is then easy to see whether it is a genuine commercial success or just another "Steve, send us another cheque, mate, we've spent the last one" venture reminiscent of the Gary Johnson and Mark Ashton days. Financially they are very similar to us, albeit on a much smaller scale, they have a wealthy owner who spent loads of money but hasn;t advanced teh league position much and is now trying to bring the club into better financial shape. I'm not waving a flag for them because I cannot see how any club can have such a dreadful person as their manager, but financially they are in no worse a position than we are. Hitler was wrong 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Dante Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 20 minutes ago, bert tann said: Hitler was wrong Yep, agree. The very act of taking out a loan with a short term sub prime lender on (so say) a temporary structure means it’s a world away from long term debt restructuring on a stadium development. Fruit Market is Wallys exit plan. And it’s purpose is to give him money back but leave Rovers with no assets. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreedyHarry Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said: For balance, just went on their forum. They seem to think it’s linked to the construction of the new stand. This special belter thinks that construction of a single tier temporary structure will cost £5m (because those projects don’t need planning, you spend that much when you’re leaving shortly and the stand will be constructed in two months, obvs), and despite it being a replacement for existing tents, will generate all totally “new” income. They’re special. Since when has advertising been charged on the size of a structure. I thought it was done on the size of audience that interact with the advert. Unless we’ve all got it wrong and that drawing a couple of weeks ago wasn’t to scale. Maybe this new structure will be so massive it can be seen from ******* London or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NcnsBcfc Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said: For balance, just went on their forum. They seem to think it’s linked to the construction of the new stand. This special belter thinks that construction of a single tier temporary structure will cost £5m (because those projects don’t need planning, you spend that much when you’re leaving shortly and the stand will be constructed in two months, obvs), and despite it being a replacement for existing tents, will generate all totally “new” income. They’re special. Christ you wouldn't want that guy doing your business's accounts. It seems like he's been to the Mark Ashton wildly optimistic school of accountancy there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42nite Posted May 10, 2023 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 2 hours ago, steviestevieneville said: My mate is up there emptying the bins . He said the tents coming down . Two blokes on a ladder Just keeping their hand in. Probably retired scout leaders. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodjias Wrist Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 10 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said: Christ you wouldn't want that guy doing your business's accounts. It seems like he's been to the Mark Ashton wildly optimistic school of accountancy there. Yeah £22.00 a game average across concessions too sounds speculative for bottom end league 1. Assuming aswell they sell out every game at full redeveloped capacity which we know never happens. I visit many other clubs forums and have to say they don't have spout some shite on there compared to most. The other forum Gas Guzzler was slightly more with it but then after someone on their said Barton speaks more sense than Pearson I quickly lost respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Open End Numb Legs Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 Surely the biggest error seems to be that building a stand for 2,500 people does not mean 2,500 extra supporter revenue, it means that 2,500 people who were stood up before are now sat down? It is possible that there is extra space created above what was there previously, but equally that doesn't mean it will be filled. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Dante Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, Open End Numb Legs said: Surely the biggest error seems to be that building a stand for 2,500 people does not mean 2,500 extra supporter revenue, it means that 2,500 people who were stood up before are now sat down? It is possible that there is extra space created above what was there previously, but equally that doesn't mean it will be filled. Tbf I think it’s supposed to be an extra 2500 people who were previously locked out. However, as you rightly say they still need to fill those seats - it’s already been pointed out that not all those will be sold to adults every game, and the saggies figures also don’t account for the cost of maintenance/stewarding the new shack, and also the cost of what they’ll spend on concessions. Add in that he somehow thinks that a rate of 3% will be payable on a high risk loan in todays market and it’s clear he hasn’t got a bloody clue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NcnsBcfc Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 3 hours ago, steviestevieneville said: My mate is up there emptying the bins . He said the tents coming down . Two blokes on a ladder If he spends any more time there, the Gas will probably co-opt him into building the stand and then finishing off the electrics afterwards. Still waiting for them to call out their Volunteer army again . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 4 hours ago, NOTBLUE said: Were there any players in the bins,or just bits of an old tent. Rats apparently , so he found joey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolman Block B Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 You couldn’t write it !!! https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/bristol-rovers-take-out-loan-8429717 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Simpson Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 7 minutes ago, Dolman Block B said: You couldn’t write it !!! https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/bristol-rovers-take-out-loan-8429717 This has the potential to give us many laughs over the closed, and hopefully into next season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post elhombrecito Posted May 10, 2023 Popular Post Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 15 minutes ago, Dolman Block B said: You couldn’t write it !!! https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/bristol-rovers-take-out-loan-8429717 "The roof structure will be a solid steel structure" Imagine supporting a professional football club in 2023 that feels the need to point out that the roof on their new stand is not made of fabric 21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flamin Groovy Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 Wonder if the sags will have stadium-cam for the building of this megastructure……I do hope so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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