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Bristol R*vers dustbin thread

42nite

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Monkeh

Monkeh

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I'm out of the loop on the UWE project now. Can I ask one thing, as you seem to be clued up...why is there suddenly all this talk about Rovers and UWE being in disagreement over the purchase price for the land for the stadium? The agreement that was put in place was that the land would be gifted to Rovers by UWE in exchange for advertising rights over the lifetime of the stadium. What has happened that has changed this OR is it just a bullshit stalling excuse/supporter rumour?

As you've said previously (I think) Wally has already been around London town, cap in hand, asking for finance for the UWE project - and failed - which suggests he doesn't have the authority to spend Daddy's money, nor that he's a very good businessman!

You're right about the fan ownership idea. When you look at AFC Wimbledon and Exeter and what they achieve as fan owned clubs, Rovers could easily sustain themselves at L1 level and it would be hugely more rewarding to support the club then trying to get behind the jokers you consistently end up with in charge.

The rumour I heard was her can't actually gift the land, therefore they would have to own the stadium on it making rovers tenents which is the sticking point, uwe want a fair market going price and rovers don't want to or can't afford to actually pay it,

 

no no idea if any of that's true but it's what I heard

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Calculus

Calculus

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, oldrosie said:

So Leeds United came sniffing but this young and up and coming manager was given an upped offer and contract. So what exactly has young Mr Clarke done?  Taken Rovers from Division Two to the Conference and brought them back up again .. a quick promotion to Division One and now they're coming down again... And superb FA Cup results  ... Chesham and Barrow .. not a great deal really then (awaiting moderation of course).

Much as I don't like him or them I would have thought 2 consecutive promotions was a decent achievement. Don't think he could be blamed too much for the basket case he inherited.

That said, he's now callling for investment in the squad in January so that, with UWE, is going to be interesting. Am sure that Wally has wealth on paper - whether he's got enough liquid cash is the question. Methinks not and the truth will out fairly soon. More fun to come for us, IMO.

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RumRed

RumRed

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, oldrosie said:

So Leeds United came sniffing but this young and up and coming manager was given an upped offer and contract. So what exactly has young Mr Clarke done?  Taken Rovers from Division Two to the Conference and brought them back up again .. a quick promotion to Division One and now they're coming down again... And superb FA Cup results  ... Chesham and Barrow .. not a great deal really then (awaiting moderation of course).

There's plenty to laugh at but two successive promotions on no budget isn't one of them.  I'd pick your targets a little better otherwise you just sound oddly bitter, or slightly delusional.

Edited by RumRed
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bert tann

bert tann

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I'm out of the loop on the UWE project now. Can I ask one thing, as you seem to be clued up...why is there suddenly all this talk about Rovers and UWE being in disagreement over the purchase price for the land for the stadium? The agreement that was put in place was that the land would be gifted to Rovers by UWE in exchange for advertising rights over the lifetime of the stadium. What has happened that has changed this OR is it just a bullshit stalling excuse/supporter rumour?

As you've said previously (I think) Wally has already been around London town, cap in hand, asking for finance for the UWE project - and failed - which suggests he doesn't have the authority to spend Daddy's money, nor that he's a very good businessman!

You're right about the fan ownership idea. When you look at AFC Wimbledon and Exeter and what they achieve as fan owned clubs, Rovers could easily sustain themselves at L1 level and it would be hugely more rewarding to support the club then trying to get behind the jokers you consistently end up with in charge.

 

I fear this may be a bit dry for otib but I'll spice it up as best I can.

The original deal between Rovers, Sainsburys and UWE was a good one except that financially it was balanced on a knife edge. With that deal in place Nicholas should have sought major outside investment so that Rovers could be viewed by the other parties as a credible and financially sound partner. If that had been the case I believe Sainsburys would have been happy to remain on board and the UWE Stadium would have been completed by now. As it was I don't think either of our partners felt comfortable about getting into bed with Rovers and that unease was the underlying reason for the collapse of the project.

That the stadium was constructed on land owned by the University but held on a 125 year lease would have had no impact at all on the success of the venture. There would be no borrowings so no need to use the land as security and the revenue generated by commercial activity on the site would all flow through to the lessee, BRFC.

The major shock in the wake of the Al-Qadi takeover was the revelation that they were apparently intending to finance the stadium through debt and not equity. The Chairman told supporters this was quite a normal procedure and that no business would use cash to finance a project of this size. What he did not disclose was how much actual equity the owners were proposing to invest and whether UWE were happy with debt being attached to the stadium when their agreement with Nicholas stipulated it should be debt free.

It was another poster who said that the project had been touted around London but offers of finance had not been forthcoming. However the recent resignation from the board of the "expert" brought in to oversee the financing of the project does lend credence to his suggestion. My theory is that UWE would be willing to allow some debt attached to the stadium and that financiers would be willing to back the project so long as they land was freehold but the sticking point is the amount of risk capital which the Rovers owners are willing to invest. Other people have put this viewpoint forward and I think it makes sense because in the last ten months we have seen no evidence at all of any cash arriving from Jordan. In fact Wael has admitted that he purchased the Rovers by "assuming debts" and not putting up any cash.  

The sincerity of Wael is not in question but he, like Nicholas, may have fallen into the trap of believing that if you wish for something hard enough it will come true. When you ask others to support you in a business venture you have to prove to them your own commitment and for that most people will want to see hard cash. There may be wealthy and influential people, some even associated with the UWE, who would like to see a vibrant and successful stadium on that campus and would be prepared to invest but  they would look very closely at their prospective partners commitment. Assessing this, and considering the risks and rewards attached to the project, would enable them to determine how much equity they would demand and how much would be left for the current owners.

Wael arrived with a fairy tale story of how this would be the only football club he would ever own but if he really has no cash to invest then he may have to be content with a just slice of the fairy tale cake or else find a way out which preserves his dignity and that of our club.

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Red Army 75

Red Army 75

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, bert tann said:

 

I fear this may be a bit dry for otib but I'll spice it up as best I can.

The original deal between Rovers, Sainsburys and UWE was a good one except that financially it was balanced on a knife edge. With that deal in place Nicholas should have sought major outside investment so that Rovers could be viewed by the other parties as a credible and financially sound partner. If that had been the case I believe Sainsburys would have been happy to remain on board and the UWE Stadium would have been completed by now. As it was I don't think either of our partners felt comfortable about getting into bed with Rovers and that unease was the underlying reason for the collapse of the project.

That the stadium was constructed on land owned by the University but held on a 125 year lease would have had no impact at all on the success of the venture. There would be no borrowings so no need to use the land as security and the revenue generated by commercial activity on the site would all flow through to the lessee, BRFC.

The major shock in the wake of the Al-Qadi takeover was the revelation that they were apparently intending to finance the stadium through debt and not equity. The Chairman told supporters this was quite a normal procedure and that no business would use cash to finance a project of this size. What he did not disclose was how much actual equity the owners were proposing to invest and whether UWE were happy with debt being attached to the stadium when their agreement with Nicholas stipulated it should be debt free.

It was another poster who said that the project had been touted around London but offers of finance had not been forthcoming. However the recent resignation from the board of the "expert" brought in to oversee the financing of the project does lend credence to his suggestion. My theory is that UWE would be willing to allow some debt attached to the stadium and that financiers would be willing to back the project so long as they land was freehold but the sticking point is the amount of risk capital which the Rovers owners are willing to invest. Other people have put this viewpoint forward and I think it makes sense because in the last ten months we have seen no evidence at all of any cash arriving from Jordan. In fact Wael has admitted that he purchased the Rovers by "assuming debts" and not putting up any cash.  

The sincerity of Wael is not in question but he, like Nicholas, may have fallen into the trap of believing that if you wish for something hard enough it will come true. When you ask others to support you in a business venture you have to prove to them your own commitment and for that most people will want to see hard cash. There may be wealthy and influential people, some even associated with the UWE, who would like to see a vibrant and successful stadium on that campus and would be prepared to invest but  they would look very closely at their prospective partners commitment. Assessing this, and considering the risks and rewards attached to the project, would enable them to determine how much equity they would demand and how much would be left for the current owners.

Wael arrived with a fairy tale story of how this would be the only football club he would ever own but if he really has no cash to invest then he may have to be content with a just slice of the fairy tale cake or else find a way out which preserves his dignity and that of our club.

Careful Bert they will be offering u out for a drink again. Actually haven't heard from them for a while. Wonder why that is

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Son of Fred

Son of Fred

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Calculus said:

Much as I don't like him or them I would have thought 2 consecutive promotions was a decent achievement. Don't think he could be blamed too much for the basket case he inherited.

That said, he's now callling for investment in the squad in January so that, with UWE, is going to be interesting. Am sure that Wally has wealth on paper - whether he's got enough liquid cash is the question. Methinks not and the truth will out fairly soon. More fun to come for us, IMO.

They are getting down to the business end of things in Horfield in more ways than one-could be very spicy.

Edited by Robert the bruce
alteration.
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gl1

gl1

Posted
Posted

I know nothing of the behind the scenes situation, but if i were a Gas fan, wouldnt the huge amount of time where NOTHING has happened, start to ring a few alarm bells? Once Higgs departed I, like many Gas, expected the stadium plans to be executed - we had been told by all and sundry the plans were in place and er...watertight, and the problem was with Sainsburys and that they had a plan B,C,D,E and F.

Fast forward on what, 2 years? and absolutely nothing has happened. It would appear to this rather amused bystander that the project is in severe doubt either with bickering between UWE and Rovers, or more likely a massive funding gap that Rovers are unwilling / unable to take, and UWE are unwilling to allow progress on as they as a profitable organisation are queasy about entering into a partnership with a club that seems unable to raise the finances.

Whichever way you slice this, it aint looking great. (for them - its incredibly amusing for us)

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Bar BS3

Bar BS3

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, gl1 said:

I know nothing of the behind the scenes situation, but if i were a Gas fan, wouldnt the huge amount of time where NOTHING has happened, start to ring a few alarm bells? Once Higgs departed I, like many Gas, expected the stadium plans to be executed - we had been told by all and sundry the plans were in place and er...watertight, and the problem was with Sainsburys and that they had a plan B,C,D,E and F.

Fast forward on what, 2 years? and absolutely nothing has happened. It would appear to this rather amused bystander that the project is in severe doubt either with bickering between UWE and Rovers, or more likely a massive funding gap that Rovers are unwilling / unable to take, and UWE are unwilling to allow progress on as they as a profitable organisation are queasy about entering into a partnership with a club that seems unable to raise the finances.

Whichever way you slice this, it aint looking great. (for them - its incredibly amusing for us)

What are you going on about...?!

Did you completely miss the reports of their installing 6 (six) new sprinklers at the Mem..? 

Not just any old sprinklers either! Sprinklers that have them ready set for the step up to Championship football. 

Who needs the distraction of building a new stadium whilst such progress and momentum is afoot..? 

It sounds to me like you are just envious of them, as I am. In fact, as we all are, apparently. 

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gl1

gl1

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

What are you going on about...?!

Did you completely miss the reports of their installing 6 (six) new sprinklers at the Mem..? 

Not just any old sprinklers either! Sprinklers that have them ready set for the step up to Championship football. 

Who needs the distraction of building a new stadium whilst such progress and momentum is afoot..? 

It sounds to me like you are just envious of them, as I am. In fact, as we all are, apparently. 

Busted, you got me - I am one of the 18,489 locked out of their cup tie with Wheelbarrow.

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RedM

RedM

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Calculus said:

Much as I don't like him or them I would have thought 2 consecutive promotions was a decent achievement. Don't think he could be blamed too much for the basket case he inherited.

That said, he's now callling for investment in the squad in January so that, with UWE, is going to be interesting. Am sure that Wally has wealth on paper - whether he's got enough liquid cash is the question. Methinks not and the truth will out fairly soon. More fun to come for us, IMO.

In the scheme of things he has certainly done wonders with what he's got. I think they said on tv that 6, maybe more, of the team which got beaten in the cup were from their non league days. He is now as many managers do calling for strengthening in January. He's saying, as again they all do, if you don't invest I won't be able to get promotion/maintain our status/avoid relegation, it's a sort of blackmail/ pass the buck time of year.

I guess he has asked many times before for players, but the thing is once you have achieved something out of nothing the owners expect it to continue. He may be a good manager at this level, he maybe though bloody awful when you give him a few quid to spend, some are aren't they? I guess by going public with his request he appeases the fans, they can see no wrong in him, but they also feel like that towards Wally from what I understand. My Gas mates truly believe the pair of they walk on water, one or the other if not both are going to sink soon I think. 

I can see Clarke leaving at the end of the season after a mid table finish, which won't be good enough for many including Wally. He will walk out on them to another club, there will be plenty hoping he can turn their clubs around on a shoestring budget too who might take a punt. The Gas? They will probably end up with Warnock! 

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Kid in the Riot

Kid in the Riot

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, bert tann said:

 

I fear this may be a bit dry for otib but I'll spice it up as best I can.

The original deal between Rovers, Sainsburys and UWE was a good one except that financially it was balanced on a knife edge. With that deal in place Nicholas should have sought major outside investment so that Rovers could be viewed by the other parties as a credible and financially sound partner. If that had been the case I believe Sainsburys would have been happy to remain on board and the UWE Stadium would have been completed by now. As it was I don't think either of our partners felt comfortable about getting into bed with Rovers and that unease was the underlying reason for the collapse of the project.

That the stadium was constructed on land owned by the University but held on a 125 year lease would have had no impact at all on the success of the venture. There would be no borrowings so no need to use the land as security and the revenue generated by commercial activity on the site would all flow through to the lessee, BRFC.

The major shock in the wake of the Al-Qadi takeover was the revelation that they were apparently intending to finance the stadium through debt and not equity. The Chairman told supporters this was quite a normal procedure and that no business would use cash to finance a project of this size. What he did not disclose was how much actual equity the owners were proposing to invest and whether UWE were happy with debt being attached to the stadium when their agreement with Nicholas stipulated it should be debt free.

It was another poster who said that the project had been touted around London but offers of finance had not been forthcoming. However the recent resignation from the board of the "expert" brought in to oversee the financing of the project does lend credence to his suggestion. My theory is that UWE would be willing to allow some debt attached to the stadium and that financiers would be willing to back the project so long as they land was freehold but the sticking point is the amount of risk capital which the Rovers owners are willing to invest. Other people have put this viewpoint forward and I think it makes sense because in the last ten months we have seen no evidence at all of any cash arriving from Jordan. In fact Wael has admitted that he purchased the Rovers by "assuming debts" and not putting up any cash.  

The sincerity of Wael is not in question but he, like Nicholas, may have fallen into the trap of believing that if you wish for something hard enough it will come true. When you ask others to support you in a business venture you have to prove to them your own commitment and for that most people will want to see hard cash. There may be wealthy and influential people, some even associated with the UWE, who would like to see a vibrant and successful stadium on that campus and would be prepared to invest but  they would look very closely at their prospective partners commitment. Assessing this, and considering the risks and rewards attached to the project, would enable them to determine how much equity they would demand and how much would be left for the current owners.

Wael arrived with a fairy tale story of how this would be the only football club he would ever own but if he really has no cash to invest then he may have to be content with a just slice of the fairy tale cake or else find a way out which preserves his dignity and that of our club.

Thanks, that fills in the gaps nicely with what I'd heard. The 'Dick Whittington goes to London' story is certainly true. We'll just have to see how much more of Wally's reign becomes fairytale!

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samo II

samo II

Posted
Posted

Clarke comes over as a self-regarding oaf, but his record in dragging that mob out of non-league on a shoestring is hard to argue against.

And when compared to their owner, who has done exactly nothing to make good on his talk of investment in the club, I'd wager Clarke is in a pretty strong position to walk if not backed.

All told; don't expect them to have the blockbuster second half of the season, nor for them to hit the skids and head back to League Two (mores the pity), but also don't see them massively altering their team via investment, so may very well be heading into another period of uncertainty and strife.

But as long as they give us a good laugh with their hilarious antics now and again, it's all good.

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Kodjias Wrist

Kodjias Wrist

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, samo II said:

Clarke comes over as a self-regarding oaf, but his record in dragging that mob out of non-league on a shoestring is hard to argue against.

And when compared to their owner, who has done exactly nothing to make good on his talk of investment in the club, I'd wager Clarke is in a pretty strong position to walk if not backed.

All told; don't expect them to have the blockbuster second half of the season, nor for them to hit the skids and head back to League Two (mores the pity), but also don't see them massively altering their team via investment, so may very well be heading into another period of uncertainty and strife.

But as long as they give us a good laugh with their hilarious antics now and again, it's all good.

Here here! Up the bloody gas!

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