Supporters Club & Trust Statement: Taking The Knee (Merged)

[TheReds]

13 minutes ago, BS2 Red said:

Where have I ignored anything? I stated why they started taking the knee. George Floyd was murdered, worldwide anti-racism protests started, players copied Colin Kaepernick's knee taking anti-racism gesture and used the phrase (not the organisations) black lives matter. They later dropped the BLM phrase as groups (that took the phrase as a name) gained prominence.

Taking the knee has never had anything to do with the BLM groups. 

 

There are multiple news stories stating that they started taking the knee for solidarity with BLM, on the BBC, Sky, SM etc, are they all just making it up? 

 

[!james]

13 minutes ago, spudski said:

No...you've misunderstood me.

It seems so much is divisive. Dividing people.

Then you have establishments, Governments etc, saying one thing, but ignoring it themselves.

Pretty much everything is grey and often confusing, makes no sense, yet we are still told not to question and obey, regardless of actions.

Pretty much everything being reported on right now, is done in a way that causes division amongst people.

It's making the man on the street fall out with many.

I've never known a time where the average bloke on the street has fallen out with his mates.

Recently...Racism, Covid, Vaccination, illegal immigration, Vac passports, transport, Green and Vegan....it's literally gone mental in the last couple years. Never in my lifetime have I known anything like it.

Hence my questioning everything.

The General public are literally turning on one another...purely based on what they read and watch via media/ TV.

Everyone now is an ' expert' on any subject based in what they read and watch.

It's truly frightening how easy it is to manipulate the public.

 

Blimey, you missed 'the great reset' and I would have had a conspiracy full house! 

[spudski]

3 minutes ago, !james said:

Blimey, you missed 'the great reset' and I would have had a conspiracy full house! 

I rest my case.

[TheReds]

39 minutes ago, TBW said:

 

How is it dangerous? Also "would have" not "would of". Maybe if you were better educated you wouldn't feel the need to boo.

Having to lower yourself to have a pop at somebody else's education because you don't like their view, actually trying to belittle someone on a public forum whilst sticking up for equality on the other hand. What a lovely virtuous person.

[BS2 Red]

6 minutes ago, TheReds said:

There are multiple news stories stating that they started taking the knee for solidarity with BLM, on the BBC, Sky, SM etc, are they all just making it up? 

 

No.

But at the time BLM/black lives matter referred to the phrase, the organisations using the name didn't become prominent until later.

Once BLM became more associated with the right wing fears of Marxism/defunding the police, the football clubs dropped the phrase.

Or do you genuinely believe that footballers were kneeling in solidarity with Marxists?

[The Hustler]

10 minutes ago, BS2 Red said:

I'll ignore your "history" lesson.

Nobody has demanded you apologise for the actions of your ancestors.

Nobody has demanded you take a knee.

Very few anti-racists are "woke, hippy apologists".

It's very weird that you are more offended by anti-racism than racism itself.

But, if you don’t know the history, then you aren’t in a position to comment on the present..

Nevertheless, I don’t believe anyone is offended by anti-racism. What is offensive is to tar racism towards one race over that of others - which is what Black Lives Matter insinuates by its very definition.

Hey ho.. 

 

 

[2015]

2 minutes ago, spudski said:

Well you've only got to look at who's got more rich and made more Billions in the last few years. It certainly makes you question what's going on. 

Everything is planned...nothing happens by accident, and everything reported has an owner, editor, production team or even Government telling them what to report to the masses.

It's a bit like when people look at the bloke mounting the top of Everest and never thinking it's actually the cameraman above him who's made it first. 

The unseen.

The only reason why big companies and brands align themselves with political and social aims is to make profit from the youth market of today. It's like they think the companies genuinely care about the issues  

The World is changing, but I personally don't think for the better most of the time. Going into Cities nowadays is a genuinely awful experience mostly. Better sticking to the countryside with those with old community values still and not being forced what to think.

I heard a couple of kids earlier in Bath, must have been no older than 16 discussing social political issues. You know what I did age 16? Play Football and Tennis day after day all Summer, I didn't even know who our Political parties were. All this has done has politicised companies and sports and brainwashing the youth of today. Sorry for the long story, just thought it was rather sad, life really isn't that serious.

[Strictly Obi]

29 minutes ago, The Hustler said:

You see, this typifies those that have an insular grasp of history - and in particular Bristol’s history.

At the time, slavery, as is still common place now btw - was the major currency for many European countries (and not only the British). It’s part of the ‘worlds’ history as much as the Romans were part of our history.

Colston was one of the chief Merchants liaising between London and Bristol and made huge sums for the Country enabling the growth of the country and empire. However, he was also one of the first to realise (before many other merchants) that what they were doing was wrong and therefore stopped his trading in slaves - hugely against a large majority of other merchants at the time and was a indeed a pioneer in the eventual collapse of the slave trade.. The huge wealth he had accrued, he then chose to give back to Bristol and the people of Bristol as shown in the many things he was responsible for around Bristol. Ultimately, Colston saw what was happening was wrong and decided to give his wealth back.

The problem is, too many people see things as ‘cut and dry’ with the slave trade but the reality is that what happened and is part of history, no more than Nazi Germany is part of Germans history.

So to answer your question, yes I was liberal and anti-racist. However, when people demand that I should apologise for the actions of our ancestors (when they don’t know the full facts anyway), to take a knee and bow down with my tail between my legs, by woke, hippy apologists, then yes, I have lost respect for the anti-racism movement as it is the definition of racism in itself.

 

Yes, and although Jimmy Saville abused many kids. He also did a lot for charity, so perhaps we should put his statue back up? 

[BS2 Red]

1 minute ago, The Hustler said:

But, if you don’t know the history, then you aren’t in a position to comment on the present..

Nevertheless, I don’t believe anyone is offended by anti-racism. What is offensive is to tar racism towards one race over that of others - which is what Black Lives Matter insinuates by its very definition.

Hey ho.. 

 

 

I am well aware of history. 

BLM (the phrase) does not tar racism towards one race over that of others. It's a direct reference to black people being murdered by police officers. It isn't "Black Lives Matter More" and never has been.

[IAmNick]

15 minutes ago, spudski said:

No...you've misunderstood me.

It seems so much is divisive. Dividing people.

Then you have establishments, Governments etc, saying one thing, but ignoring it themselves.

Pretty much everything is grey and often confusing, makes no sense, yet we are still told not to question and obey, regardless of actions.

Pretty much everything being reported on right now, is done in a way that causes division amongst people.

It's making the man on the street fall out with many.

I've never known a time where the average bloke on the street has fallen out with his mates.

Recently...Racism, Covid, Vaccination, illegal immigration, Vac passports, transport, Green and Vegan....it's literally gone mental in the last couple years. Never in my lifetime have I known anything like it.

Hence my questioning everything.

The General public are literally turning on one another...purely based on what they read and watch via media/ TV.

Everyone now is an ' expert' on any subject based in what they read and watch.

It's truly frightening how easy it is to manipulate the public.

 

The above has always happened, the difference is now with the advent of technology, social media, camera phones etc. we're a lot more aware of it. Our sphere of knowledge and influence has grown incredibly.

I think people question and query now more than they ever have - look back through history about what the "common man" knew about the world and what they do now.

This stuff has always gone on though. In semi-recent past can you not look at the 60s and 70s and point to similar issues in society? The miners strikes and the 3 day week? The troubles in Ireland? 9/11, the war on terror, and the attacks in this country? That's 20 years ago now. Incredibly divisive... I think you have your rose tinteds on I'm afraid if you think this is new.

 

I do agree though to some degree it's manufactured, but you have to remember that in general the power structures in our country and the world are controlled by people who have it in their best interested to stop people questioning things like race, climate change, immigration, or by trying to downplay or conflate issues like taking the knee with introducing Marxism and the like.

If an issue comes up - BLM, climate change, going green/vegan, immigration... and the solution to an incredibly complex problem is "Well it's better than it was" or "It's fine just don't do anything" then that should ring your alarm bells, not the issue coming up in the first place.

[AshtonGreat]

1 minute ago, BS2 Red said:

Oh no! Footballers suggested that black lives might actually matter. How awful!

I don't believe you are stupid and so it must be wilful ignorance to still pretend to not understand the difference between BLM (the groups), BLM (the phrase) and taking the knee (the sports gesture that pre-dates the BLM groups). 

Thanks. Personally, I can't get my head around why anyone wouldn't see the phrase and the organisations as intrinsically linked. They are, after all, the same three words. But that's just my opinion. 

At the end of the day, if the players want to do it, that's entirely up to them and I certainly won't be booing or jeering. Whether it (or any other gesture, for that matter) will make a genuine difference remains to be seen.

[IAmNick]

6 minutes ago, 2015 said:

The only reason why big companies and brands align themselves with political and social aims is to make profit from the youth market of today. It's like they think the companies genuinely care about the issues  

 

Blimey, sounds like you have an issue with the system in our country to me mate!

Maybe I could introduce you to my little friend called "seizing the means of production"?

I'm kidding of course, but it's amusing from what you say you're aware of some of the issues in capitalism - which is what you're describing above. Profit above all else.

7 minutes ago, 2015 said:

I heard a couple of kids earlier in Bath, must have been no older than 16 discussing social political issues. You know what I did age 16? Play Football and Tennis day after day all Summer, I didn't even know who our Political parties were. All this has done has politicised companies and sports and brainwashing the youth of today. Sorry for the long story, just thought it was rather sad, life really isn't that serious.

I think that's a good thing personally. The more people who are aware of the issues in our society the more we can try and change them for the benefit of us all.

[BS2 Red]

1 minute ago, AshtonGreat said:

Personally, I can't get my head around why anyone wouldn't see the phrase and the organisations as intrinsically linked. They are, after all, the same three words. But that's just my opinion. 

I was referring to confusing the two BLMs with taking the knee. It's been explained, constantly, why taking the knee has little or nothing to do with either type of BLM.

I can understand the confusion between BLM (the phrase) and BLM (the group). If somebody says they are just using the phrase though, it's bizarre to be confused that they are actually a secret Marxist.

[spudski]

2 minutes ago, 2015 said:

The only reason why big companies and brands align themselves with political and social aims is to make profit from the youth market of today. It's like they think the companies genuinely care about the issues  

The World is changing, but I personally don't think for the better most of the time. Going into Cities nowadays is a genuinely awful experience mostly. Better sticking to the countryside with those with old community values still and not being forced what to think.

I heard a couple of kids earlier in Bath, must have been no older than 16 discussing social political issues. You know what I did age 16? Play Football and Tennis day after day all Summer, I didn't even know who our Political parties were. All this has done has politicised companies and sports and brainwashing the youth of today. Sorry for the long story, just thought it was rather sad, life really isn't that serious.

I agree...the world is changing faster than ever before.

I feel for the kids. They have a massive struggle ahead.

We've ruined the planet.

I read only this week, that the lungs of the planet, the Rainforest, is now at a point of no return. It's actually now producing more carbon dioxide than oxygen.

Yet we seem content to keep making symbolic gestures with everything and never question it.

Friggin plastic bag charges...yet everything you buy is covered in the damn stuff. Just a symbolic gesture yet making money from it.

It's pretty much all bullshit and grey.

Contradictory in everything.

Yet the young are stuck in their phones being guided by everything the read, rather than actually experience.

Generalised but very much getting that way.

[IAmNick]

10 minutes ago, The Hustler said:

What is offensive is to tar racism towards one race over that of others - which is what Black Lives Matter insinuates by its very definition.

This sentence highlights a gross misunderstanding on your part. The phrase "black lives matter" doesn't insinuate anything by it's very definition any more than a breast cancer research charity insinuates heart disease doesn't matter.

[spudski]

8 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

The above has always happened, the difference is now with the advent of technology, social media, camera phones etc. we're a lot more aware of it. Our sphere of knowledge and influence has grown incredibly.

I think people question and query now more than they ever have - look back through history about what the "common man" knew about the world and what they do now.

This stuff has always gone on though. In semi-recent past can you not look at the 60s and 70s and point to similar issues in society? The miners strikes and the 3 day week? The troubles in Ireland? 9/11, the war on terror, and the attacks in this country? That's 20 years ago now. Incredibly divisive... I think you have your rose tinteds on I'm afraid if you think this is new.

 

I do agree though to some degree it's manufactured, but you have to remember that in general the power structures in our country and the world are controlled by people who have it in their best interested to stop people questioning things like race, climate change, immigration, or by trying to downplay or conflate issues like taking the knee with introducing Marxism and the like.

If an issue comes up - BLM, climate change, going green/vegan, immigration... and the solution to an incredibly complex problem is "Well it's better than it was" or "It's fine just don't do anything" then that should ring your alarm bells, not the issue coming up in the first place.

We agree...but come at the conclusion from different angles.

[View from the Dolman]

34 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

As others have said, the kneeling at football started at exactly the same that BLM appeared on the shirts

Didn't happen in the EFL.

34 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

As others have said, the kneeling at football started at exactly the same that BLM appeared on ... the seats

Didn't happen at Bristol City.

35 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

As others have said, the kneeling at football started at exactly the same that BLM appeared on the ... Sky branding

Entirely irrelevant - not under the control of Bristol City or its players.

So the booing of Bristol City players was actually based upon the decision of:

• in respect of BLM appearing on shirts, the Premier League and its member clubs.
• in respect of BLM appearing on seats, the clubs at whose stadiums these messages appeared
• in respect of Sky Sports graphics, the executives of Sky/Comcast.

Yeah, sure seems logical now.

[2015]

1 minute ago, IAmNick said:

Blimey, sounds like you have an issue with the system in our country to me mate!

Maybe I could introduce you to my little friend called "seizing the means of production"?

I'm kidding of course, but it's amusing from what you say you're aware of some of the issues in capitalism - which is what you're describing above. Profit above all else.

I just think they are latching onto left wing ideas to increase their own profit, which is clever from their end but it is causing almighty divides between those at the bottom, just look at the many threads we've had. 

Capitalism/Socialism/Communism who really cares at this point, there will still be those who are mega mega rich and those who go without. Infact with Communism majority have to go without  

Kids should be enjoying their lives, not be caught up on political aims and issues. But that's up to them, i'd rather my care free childhood though

 

[BrizzleRed]

I’ve never booed this taking the knee stuff, but it’s really beginning to boil my piss now. I’m totally against racism, but I can’t support a gesture with so many negative connotations.  

People can deny the Black Lives Matter links all they like, but if you adopt a gesture so inextricably linked to an organisation, you can’t then deny any connections.  Put it this way, if the players all stood on the pitch and did Nazi salutes, could they then deny empathising with that organisation?  And no, I’m not comparing BLM to Nazis, just in case anyone misunderstands!

It baffles me why it was deemed appropriate to adopt this symbol anyway.  There are a number of worrying and negative aims and objectives for BLM in the US.  We aren’t the US, so why not create a gesture which doesn’t carry the negative baggage and can still be relevant?

Would it be so bad to have all the players linking arms as a symbol of unity and solidarity?  Nothing negative or divisive in that gesture and a positive gesture of all people being as one.  I feel anyone booing that would then be leaving themselves wide open to accusations of racist motivations.

What this country really needs is something  that brings all ethnic groups together as one, not something with the potential to drive a massive great wedge between between elements of society that we’re trying to unite.

 

[BS2 Red]

1 minute ago, BrizzleRed said:

People can deny the Black Lives Matter links all they like, but if you adopt a gesture so inextricably linked to an organisation, you can’t then deny any connections.

The only reason it's linked to that organisation is because the right wing has told everybody it is.

The two things have common ground of course, but they are not (and have never been) the same thing.

 

[Maltshoveller]

4 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

I’ve never booed this taking the knee stuff, but it’s really beginning to boil my piss now. I’m totally against racism, but I can’t support a gesture with so many negative connotations.  

People can deny the Black Lives Matter links all they like, but if you adopt a gesture so inextricably linked to an organisation, you can’t then deny any connections.  Put it this way, if the players all stood on the pitch and did Nazi salutes, could they then deny empathising with that organisation?  And no, I’m not comparing BLM to Nazis, just in case anyone misunderstands!

It baffles me why it was deemed appropriate to adopt this symbol anyway.  There are a number of worrying and negative aims and objectives for BLM in the US.  We aren’t the US, so why not create a gesture which doesn’t carry the negative baggage and can still be relevant?

Would it be so bad to have all the players linking arms as a symbol of unity and solidarity?  Nothing negative or divisive in that gesture and a positive gesture of all people being as one.  I feel anyone booing that would then be leaving themselves wide open to accusations of racist motivations.

What this country really needs is something  that brings all ethnic groups together as one, not something with the potential to drive a massive great wedge between between elements of society that we’re trying to unite.

 

Great post 

Nailed it

[AshtonGreat]

12 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said:

Didn't happen in the EFL.

Didn't happen at Bristol City.

Entirely irrelevant - not under the control of Bristol City or its players.

So the booing of Bristol City players was actually based upon the decision of:

• in respect of BLM appearing on shirts, the Premier League and its member clubs.
• in respect of BLM appearing on seats, the clubs at whose stadiums these messages appeared
• in respect of Sky Sports graphics, the executives of Sky/Comcast.

Yeah, sure seems logical now.

I wasn't supporting the booing of the players

[IAmNick]

15 minutes ago, 2015 said:

I just think they are latching onto left wing ideas to increase their own profit, which is clever from their end but it is causing almighty divides between those at the bottom, just look at the many threads we've had. 

 

But many of the ideas are about improving the lot of your fellow man. The divide is separate - and often to distract from the issue... such as implying kneeling at a football match will revive Karl Marx and usher in a communist revolution.

15 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Capitalism/Socialism/Communism who really cares at this point, there will still be those who are mega mega rich and those who go without. Infact with Communism majority have to go without  

Well two of those are on a scale of attempting to tackle the problem at least, rather than the one we have which is designed to increase it.

Imagine a staircase where each step represents £100,000 in net worth.

50% of people would be on the 1st step or lower in the UK.

The top 20% start around the 5th step.

The top 10% start around the 10th or so.

A billionaire, of which we have 171 in the UK, are on step 10,000. Three hours of non stop walking high.

Jeff Bezos is 133 miles up.

 

The people on the bottom 10 steps are fighting each other in this thread over a cause which is trying to improve life for each other. It's ridiculous and it's down to our system.

If those kids you mention are realising it then more power to them imo.

 

[2015]

3 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

But many of the ideas are about improving the lot of your fellow man. The divide is separate - and often to distract from the issue... such as implying kneeling at a football match will revive Karl Marx and usher in a communist revolution.

Well two of those are on a scale of attempting to tackle the problem at least, rather than the one we have which is designed to increase it.

Imagine a staircase where each step represents £100,000 in net worth.

50% of people would be on the 1st step or lower in the UK.

The top 10% start around the 5th step.

The top 1% start around the 8th or so.

A billionaire, of which we have 171 in the UK, are on step 10,000. Three hours of non stop walking high.

Jeff Bezos is 133 miles up.

 

The people on the bottom 10 steps are fighting each other in this thread over a cause which is trying to improve life for each other. It's ridiculous and it's down to our system.

If those kids you mention are realising it then more power to them imo.

 

All I see from socialists and communists is destroy. Destroy the Country we love. They have taken over our Cities, and not for the good, in my opinion. Bristol is a hell hole now, as is Leicester, London and Birmingham which are all the same. Bath not far behind sadly either. The reasons why socialism and communism isn't appealing is solely down to the fact that most people outside of these big Cities actually quite like this Nation and its History.

Economically I get where you are coming from, but all BLM is doing is creating a divide between ethnicities and the poor. There is also a separate BLM who align themselves with Marxist ideas. No wonder people put 2 and 2 together and associate the knee with it.

Anyway, back on point - The players can take the knee all they want, but you cannot force people to stand there and applaud and you cannot stop a few from booing. Players are allowed their freedom of speech and so are the fans.

[QuedgeRed]

26 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

People can deny the Black Lives Matter links all they like, but if you adopt a gesture so inextricably linked to an organisation, you can’t then deny any connections. 

So inextricably linked that you believe the Bristol City players on Saturday share the same beliefs???

[RedLionLad]

1 hour ago, Bristol Rob said:

Okay, I think we can recap.

1. Some people - for reasons unknown - booed those taking the knee.

2. As per the club statement, players were taking the knee in solidarity with a wide number of social injustices, not specifically racism, although we all acknowledge that the reintroduction of the knee was popularised by sports people and became a symbol of BLM.

3. A large number of people who don't care much for the knee, just ignored it.

4. Some people have such an issue with something they could quietly ignore, they chose to boo.

5. The Supporters Trust need to make it clear in any future statements that their represent their paying members, and no ALL supporters, as aside from a survey every couple of years, where the questions are designed to give them the answer they think they want, they don't overly engage with the wider supporters base. They should also acknowledge the reason the club and players said they were taking the knee before implying those who disagreed were racist.

6. The PA in the Dolman is still shit.

Sorry, can you repeat number 6 again please?

[IAmNick]

21 minutes ago, 2015 said:

All I see from socialists and communists is destroy. Destroy the Country we love. They have taken over our Cities, and not for the good, in my opinion. Bristol is a hell hole now, as is Leicester, London and Birmingham which are all the same. Bath not far behind sadly either. The reasons why socialism and communism isn't appealing is solely down to the fact that most people outside of these big Cities actually quite like this Nation and its History.

Economically I get where you are coming from, but all BLM is doing is creating a divide between ethnicities and the poor. There is also a separate BLM who align themselves with Marxist ideas. No wonder people put 2 and 2 together and associate the knee with it.

Anyway, back on point - The players can take the knee all they want, but you cannot force people to stand there and applaud and you cannot stop a few from booing. Players are allowed their freedom of speech and so are the fans.

*points at capitalism* look at this socialist hellhole!

Come on. We've had a conservative government for 11 years now, and even Labour aren't exactly socialist let alone communist for gods sake. If those cities are suffering it's not because of socialism.

What socialist policies have destroyed those cities exactly? They have nothing to do with a nation or its history.

[TBW]

1 hour ago, TheReds said:

Having to lower yourself to have a pop at somebody else's education because you don't like their view, actually trying to belittle someone on a public forum whilst sticking up for equality on the other hand. What a lovely virtuous person.

Cry harder for me. 

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

20 minutes ago, TBW said:

Cry harder for me. 

Awwww you're one of those spiteful lefties.  I feel for your friends. 

[The dastardly red]

1 hour ago, 2015 said:

All I see from socialists and communists is destroy. Destroy the Country we love. They have taken over our Cities, and not for the good, in my opinion. Bristol is a hell hole now, as is Leicester, London and Birmingham which are all the same. Bath not far behind sadly either. The reasons why socialism and communism isn't appealing is solely down to the fact that most people outside of these big Cities actually quite like this Nation and its History.

Economically I get where you are coming from, but all BLM is doing is creating a divide between ethnicities and the poor. There is also a separate BLM who align themselves with Marxist ideas. No wonder people put 2 and 2 together and associate the knee with it.

Anyway, back on point - The players can take the knee all they want, but you cannot force people to stand there and applaud and you cannot stop a few from booing. Players are allowed their freedom of speech and so are the fans.

Have another read through what you've written. It doesn't make much sense. And why did you mention those cities in particular? Why do you think they are "hell holes"?