4-2-3-1

[old_eastender]

I know this is Pearson's preferred system, and if we had Semenyo and COD available to play right and left flank it might work.

Today it was hopeless, Martin isolated up front having to run the channels when he should be in the box. Palmer tried, but just could not seem to get control of the ball today and playing left flank is not his natural position. Weimann was a total passenger until winning the FK from which we levelled and then winning another centrally soon after that Wells (predictably) wasted.

We did better when Wells came on and played alongside Martin. For me unless we have COD & Semenyo available to play, we have to play 2 up front otherwise we are toothless.

 

 

 

[Eddie Notgetinya]

Cheers Gregor 

[Davefevs]

The problem with any system is when you get disjointed partnerships in operation.  Today Vyner and Weimann were miles apart, both with and without the ball.  Dasilva did ok today, but Palmer offered him little in front.  So effectively 4 players losing their battles, Dasilva probably through no fault of his own.  James and King spent a lot of time watching balls go over their head, so they were taken out of the equation.  Other players not effective either.

We played for 10 minutes at the end of the first half, when ironically we went 1-0 down, but didn't real go anywhere.  For 20 minutes in the second half we looked much more like it and after we went 2-1 down we had a couple of chances but Boro saw the game out and created themselves.

Ultimately we didn’t play as a team today….last week I thought we did.

[stephenkibby.]

30 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The problem with any system is when you get disjointed partnerships in operation.  Today Vyner and Weimann were miles apart, both with and without the ball.  Dasilva did ok today, but Palmer offered him little in front.  So effectively 4 players losing their battles, Dasilva probably through no fault of his own.  James and King spent a lot of time watching balls go over their head, so they were taken out of the equation.  Other players not effective either.

We played for 10 minutes at the end of the first half, when ironically we went 1-0 down, but didn't real go anywhere.  For 20 minutes in the second half we looked much more like it and after we went 2-1 down we had a couple of chances but Boro saw the game out and created themselves.

Ultimately we didn’t play as a team today….last week I thought we did.

Dave does any system work when our movement off the ball is so poor,our first touch and 10,20 yard passes are so poor?

Also the lack of pace right through out the side is truly frightening. That of coarse limits us attacking and defending.

Along with our inability to defend our penalty area has to be a big big worry.

[Davefevs]

Stephen - in short, no!

[Midlands Robin]

4231 is supposed to be one of those formations that can be all things to all players. Defensive screening from the two DM's can rapidly swap to overloading midfield in attack.

The two wide midfielders up top can overlap with the left and right back playing more like wing backs.

The trouble is, we can't seem to get the best out of this formation anywhere on the park.

@stephenkibby.has hit the nail on the head for me. Our pace and movement is woeful and has been for some time. That, coupled with a lack of understanding between the players about where they're going and it's little wonder we are lacking creativity.

The understanding on the pitch will develop, there's no question about that but we are going to suffer in the short to medium term.

We are still desperately short of players with genuine skill and pace in the front 4 and this is the biggest problem of all. As wide players at various times we have relied on two strikers. Oh for at least one genuine, experienced winger in the team. 

 

[stephenkibby.]

24 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Stephen - in short, no!

The gap between us and the premier is scarey, watching Norwich ( A total grade above us ) getting ripped a new one has got me thinking.

Are the standard of the players we employ nearer the southern league or the premier league?

As for me i think a southern league players could possibly the jump to the championship but none of our players could make the top league.

With the exception of Scott,and he would need a fair wind blowing?

[Midlands Robin]

3 minutes ago, stephenkibby. said:

none of our players could make the top league.

Which shows you how far away we have fallen. Consider that in the last few years Webster, Bryan, Reid, Kelly and Brownhill were all signed by Premier League clubs.

[Dr Balls]

1 hour ago, Midlands Robin said:

Which shows you how far away we have fallen. Consider that in the last few years Webster, Bryan, Reid, Kelly and Brownhill were all signed by Premier League clubs.

But only 2 of those are currently playing in the Premier League, and in teams in the lower half. Ayling (as another recent-ish departure) scored a corker at Old Trafford today. Strangely enough I can’t see any of our current side managing anything similar any time soon at that level or even in the Championship.

[Midlands Robin]

1 minute ago, Dr Balls said:

But only 2 of those are currently playing in the Premier League, and in teams in the lower half.

All true but they were signed because at the time they were considered to be good enough to play in the Prem.

I did consider Ayling but Leeds signed him when they were in the Championship. He has done very well there though. 

[Finley_Smith10]

I know he’s worked on 4231 all pre season however 352 to me is so much stronger and suits us more.

                   DB

         TK     NB    RA 

ZV         MJ     AK       JD

                   KP 

             NW     CM

 

However we do need a new right back and new striker. I just hope they see this and recruit before the end of the window 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Finley_Smith10 said:

I know he’s worked on 4231 all pre season however 352 to me is so much stronger and suits us more.

                   DB

         TK     NB    RA 

ZV         MJ     AK       JD

                   KP 

             NW     CM

 

However we do need a new right back and new striker. I just hope they see this and recruit before the end of the window 

Quite interested how you instruct each of the back 3 to play, depending on whether they’re facing an opponent with one up top, and ditto with two.

[Finley_Smith10]

11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Quite interested how you instruct each of the back 3 to play, depending on whether they’re facing an opponent with one up top, and ditto with two.

it’s hard, I’d prefer Vyner to drop abit deeper than Dasilva from a defensive point of view but that will allow Dasilva to attack more which offers us that wide outlet which we’ve been missing for seasons. But then again imo I don’t think Vyner is a full back plus Simpson doesn’t have the legs for it. The back three also would allow Atkinson more freedom for his runs which like Webster a couple seasons ago was how we started the attacks. For example dragging midfielders out of position to open gaps. 
 

Players like Olosunde and Sessegnon would be good wings backs but it’s just why rip up a formation we’ve played in pre season just off two games. 
 

In the midfield it’s solid with King and James but I also liked Bakinson when he was playing in the 352 for example against Middlesbrough last season. Thing is with TB is his first thought is always play forward which allowed us to start off attacks more quickly. 
 

I forgot about Weimann tbf but him and Wells as a two has some potential I.e off the ball movement. 
 

It’s just a frustrating situation cause we have the players (kind of) but it’s the getting into goalscoring opportunities which has been our downfall. 
 

Would maybe a 3-4-3 with Wells up top and Semenyo and Weimann either side be a good thing to experiment? 

[Davefevs]

15 minutes ago, Finley_Smith10 said:

it’s hard, I’d prefer Vyner to drop abit deeper than Dasilva from a defensive point of view but that will allow Dasilva to attack more which offers us that wide outlet which we’ve been missing for seasons. But then again imo I don’t think Vyner is a full back plus Simpson doesn’t have the legs for it. The back three also would allow Atkinson more freedom for his runs which like Webster a couple seasons ago was how we started the attacks. For example dragging midfielders out of position to open gaps. 
 

Players like Olosunde and Sessegnon would be good wings backs but it’s just why rip up a formation we’ve played in pre season just off two games. 
 

In the midfield it’s solid with King and James but I also liked Bakinson when he was playing in the 352 for example against Middlesbrough last season. Thing is with TB is his first thought is always play forward which allowed us to start off attacks more quickly. 
 

I forgot about Weimann tbf but him and Wells as a two has some potential I.e off the ball movement. 
 

It’s just a frustrating situation cause we have the players (kind of) but it’s the getting into goalscoring opportunities which has been our downfall. 
 

Would maybe a 3-4-3 with Wells up top and Semenyo and Weimann either side be a good thing to experiment? 

I was thinking more about who would mark, who would be spare, who’d attack the aerial ball etc.

Reason for asking is that in 14/15, Flint - our best of the three CBs aerially played in the centre and often opponents angled aerial balls at Ayling or Williams, so Flint didn’t actually attack many long balls.  Obviously Ayling went on Tasmania Devil arm-whirling dribbles forward whereas Williams was more pass and move, with Bryan and Freeman.

I don’t see Baker as a spare man, he likes to attack the ball, hence my Qs.  Nor is Kalas like Ayling.

Of course that is not to say a back 3 has to play like Cotts’ 14/15 side, but let’s say Reading play Joao and Azeez up top, how would you task our 3 CBs?

[big dosser]

systems is overrated, at the end of the day its 11 v 11