Match Report: Fans turn on team after usual Hawthorns surrender

[Olé]

A third straight defeat in one week saw the inevitable extension of City's already woeful home form into away fixtures - and with it a toxic atmosphere as those same home fans who made the relatively short trip up the M5 having been starved of good football, were subjected to even worse football and so tore into so far impenetrable Nigel Pearson and his players in a way not previously seen.

Within hours of sacking coach Paul Simpson and banishing Keith Downing - before a first return with City to his old club - there was a toxic atmosphere that seemed to affect the players as much as it was reflected among traveling supporters, some of who variously called for Pearson to be sacked as well as targeting players as not fit to wear the shirt - while singing to celebrate former players.

West Brom's three goals owed much to just getting the ball down the channel to exploit poor full backs, scoring with relatively ease having got in behind over and over - in fact the Baggies could have scored six or more, Pearson hauling off teenager George Tanner for a loose back pass which nearly provided another goal, though it was his replacement Danny Simpson who did the same for a third.

City went into the game introducing fit again Han Noah Massengo for Alex Scott - but his energy was wasted in a game which quickly ran away from the visitors. In just 6 minutes a ball over the top into the right channel put Darrell Furlong into absolute acres of space behind wing back Jay DaSilva and a drilled low ball into the middle was slammed home by Jordan Hugill in behind City's back line.

Amazingly the visitors could have equalised immediately as a disguised touch from Andi Weimann put Nahki Wells clear from the far right but having fired into the far corner and spun away to celebrate Baggies protests for an obvious offside led the linesman to raise his flag a long time after the finish - a right decision but executed in timing that would make VAR seem a reasonable intervention.

Almost immediately a carbon copy of the goal as Conor Townsend got in behind this time on the left, centering the ball to where Hugill hooked over at close range. The hosts continued to dominate and inside quarter of an hour a recycled corner was lobbed back into the box where Tomas Kalas stretching header was backwards into the path of Hugill who slashed over with Bentley to beat.

A game which saw medical emergencies in the stands before both halves would see an ordeal even on the pitch too, as injury prone Nathan Baker appeared to fall to his knees with a serious neck injury, over ten minutes passing before he was stretchered away as Cam Pring entered in his place. The Baggies were all over us and when a shot rebounded to Robert Snodgrass he curled onto the bar.

On the half hour Tanner's loose back pass again gave the hosts a clear run at goal as Hugill raced in before curling a low shot just beyond the far post. Pearson's reaction to this mistake - hauling off the youngster for Simpson drew derision in the away end who sung "you don't know what you're doing" at the early change, though in truth the visitors were shifting into a conventional 4-4-2.

On 37 Weimann's diagonal run got the City forward in behind the home defence on the right but his cross into the middle was too close to the keeper. It was a brief respite as West Brom again piled forward and from a 41st minute right wing corner Kyle Bartley was allowed to rise unchallenged in front of Bentley in the centre of goal to nod low into the bottom corner for a deserved second.

Before the break - which included over ten minutes added on - Simpson found himself miles off yet another Baggies attack and was indebted to Kalas for turning it behind, though the pair argued, the hosts winning a series of corners, and deep into injury time glided easily behind DaSilva again in yards of space to square for Matt Phillips in the box only to miscue with a third inevitable. 

It was no different after an extended break as one way traffic saw West Brom continue to swarm all over their visitors though a brief counter created City's first shot on goal as Weimann intercepted and raced upfield and threaded the ball into the left channel where Wells return ball was straight to the keeper. Next Simpson stole the ball for Weimann who slid it across but DaSilva's shot was blocked. 

It felt like City might be starting to fight back but they routinely surrendered second balls from set pieces around the Baggies box and retreated at pace, so it was no surprise that after a City corner was cleared, the visitors rapidly retreated and Simpson slipped a silly back pass from the halfway line that simply put Karlan Grant so clear on goal he had the half to himself, smashing it past Bentley.

By now away fans - particularly those which see most of their football at home - tore into players and sung names of those departed. Before the hour City twice got in the way of themselves around the box, first James then Kalas wasting shooting opportunities, each occasion West Brom breaking, the second time Pring lucky to avoid a red card trying to stop a 2 on 1 that should have produced a fourth.

City's best move came after the hour mark as our best player - Massengo - jinked past players in midfield and put Wells out on the left, whose well placed cross into the near post found the otherwise anonymous Chris Martin forcing a point blank save off a close range header. From the corner at a second attempt City had players in space from the right but Martin's shot went for a throw in.

Calum O'Dowda replaced DaSilva but it was all West Brom moving the ball with ease and running at City, before 70 Jayson Molumby on the run smashed a rising 30 yard shot just over the bar and then the Baggies tore their woeful opponents open again to get in  behind, Hugill clear in the box with just the keeper to beat forcing a save from an angle, the hosts unable to turn home the rebound.

City had a brief spell of football (by brief I mean strung more than 2 passes together) and Weimann broke on the right and fed to Wells who steered a shot straight at the keeper. With ten remaining Martin brought the ball down in the box and lifted it across the last man to where O'Dowda managed to misconnect a diving header with just the keeper to beat. The jeers just grew louder.

The remaining exchanges were irrelevant as West Brom lowered the gears though would still pepper the City goal from corners - and we threw Bakinson on for bundle of energy Massengo (cue more jeers), the away side at least creating the final chance, Weimann heading over a Wells early ball. It did little to soften a toxic capacity away end, some now singing the name of Lee Johnson and others.

Nigel Pearson has had a lot of patience and arguably a) we'd always expected nothing today and b) those that turned so rapidly on both players and manager don't regularly see City away, but it is inescapable that sudden coaching changes over the last 24 hours reflect the chaos that then turned up on the pitch - indeed we've been poor for weeks (including our last two wins) and are now in freefall.

 

Bentley 5

Kalas 5

Atkinson 5

Baker 5

Tanner 4

DaSilva 4

James 5

Massengo 6

Weimann 5

Wells 6

Martin 3

 

Pring 4

Simpson 4 

O'Dowda 4

Bakinson 

Edited October 23, 2021 by Olé

[INB Red]

Very generous ratings

[Curr Avon]

Sorry to be pedantic Rob. Bentley saved Hugill's shot following the Tanner backpass and Bartley headed in from a Furlong throw. Great report.

[Akira]

Was one of the worst performances I've seen of City in a long time sadly. It was glaringly obvious within 5 mins or so, with the amount of back passes to Bentley that they lacked the quality and confidence against a very good West Brom team. 

I can take teams playing better than us, being better than us, but I can't take lack of effort. Simpson when he came on looked useless. Dasilva for the first goal I didn't think tracked back anywhere near as quickly as he should've done. 

And they could've been 5 up at half time. 

Talking of half time, the fan who collapsed, hope he recovers, couldn't quite believe what I was hearing when the west brom 'fans' to the left started chanting "he's gonna die in a minute". Truly shocking, unless I misheard it somehow? 

2nd half was equally as bad as the first, but they utilised the wings much much better than we did. 

Their number 5 centre back, Bartley, was an absolute beast. 

Didn't expect anything from the game, however I do expect effort. Which I felt we lacked in almost every position. Martin up top barely did a thing. We couldn't wait to hoof it or pass back. 

Calling for Nige to go, still baffles me, for many reasons highlighted over this last week. He's a proven manager, who needs time. He also needs some funds to improve what is a rather shite team. Whether he'll get that, remains to be seen, but feel it's incredibly unfair to judge him when he's dealing with so much crap really. I genuinely can't see how any other manager would get a tune out of this squad. 

Disappointing to hear the fans getting toxic, it should be aimed at the players way more than the manager, given the money they earn and the woeful performance they've given. 

Edit - on a positive, had one of the best curries I've ever had in a lush pub called The Royal Oak, which was a pub/curry house. Spoke to some really friendly WBA fans in there too, which is always nice not having to worry about wearing your teams colours etc. 

Edited October 23, 2021 by Akira

[italian dave]

Great report Rob, thanks. Pring at least 5 for me (no way was he on a par with Simpson), but otherwise, agree with all those. 

[italian dave]

5 minutes ago, Akira said:

Was one of the worst performances I've seen of City in a long time sadly. It was glaringly obvious within 5 mins or so, with the amount of back passes to Bentley that they lacked the quality and confidence against a very good West Brom team. 

I can take teams playing better than us, being better than us, but I can't take lack of effort. Simpson when he came on looked useless. Dasilva for the first goal I didn't think tracked back anywhere near as quickly as he should've done. 

And they could've been 5 up at half time. 

Talking of half time, the fan who collapsed, hope he recovers, couldn't quite believe what I was hearing when the west brom 'fans' to the left started chanting "he's gonna die in a minute". Truly shocking, unless I misheard it somehow? 

2nd half was equally as bad as the first, but they utilised the wings much much better than we did. 

Their number 5 centre back, Bartley, was an absolute beast. 

Didn't expect anything from the game, however I do expect effort. Which I felt we lacked in almost every position. Martin up top barely did a thing. We couldn't wait to hoof it or pass back. 

Calling for Nige to go, still baffles me, for many reasons highlighted over this last week. He's a proven manager, who needs time. He also needs some funds to improve what is a rather shite team. Whether he'll get that, remains to be seen, but feel it's incredibly unfair to judge him when he's dealing with so much crap really. I genuinely can't see how any other manager would get a tune out of this squad. 

Disappointing to hear the fans getting toxic, it should be aimed at the players way more than the manager, given the money they earn and the woeful performance they've given. 

I thought it was “cry” not “die” and assumed it was aimed at someone else they’d picked out among the city fans - but I may have misheard or misinterpreted too. Shocking if it was as you thought.

I’m not suggesting toxicity should be aimed at anyone, but I don’t think it’s just the players. The manager has to shoulder some of the blame. Too many players are being asked to do things that are clearly not playing to or using their strengths. It was woeful, but that woefulness (is that a word?!) was as much about the way we set up, our lack of a plan or shape, our lack of confidence as it was about any individual performance - poor as many were.

[sh1t_ref_again]

Thought pring did OK, Dasilva was woeful and had already been beaten for pace a few minutes earlier than the 1st goal, looks a shadow of the pre injury player and nowhere near the required level.

[Wiltshire robin]

What songs about ex players were being sang? , seen a few people mentioning this.

[MrBibs]

4 minutes ago, Wiltshire robin said:

What songs about ex players were being sang? , seen a few people mentioning this.

The old fan songs that used to sung for Famara, Bobby Reid, Bryan, Pack, Flint, Webster, Paterson  and a fair few others.

Also East end bounce around followed by West Brom bounce around

Some of it felt like a bit of gallows humour to me.

[lenred]

1 minute ago, MrBibs said:

The old fan songs that used to sung for Famara, Bobby Reid, Bryan, Pack, Flint, Webster, Paterson  and a fair few others.

Also East end bounce around followed by West Brom bounce around

Some of it felt like a bit of gallows humour to me.

Just needed to add ‘let’s pretend we scored a goal’ by the sounds of it. God that was cringey……

Edited October 23, 2021 by lenred

[The Original OTIB]

1 hour ago, Olé said:

A third straight defeat in one week saw the inevitable extension of City's already woeful home form into away fixtures - and with it a toxic atmosphere as those same home fans who made the relatively short trip up the M5 having been starved of good football, were subjected to even worse football and so tore into so far impenetrable Nigel Pearson and his players in a way not previously seen.

Within hours of sacking coach Paul Simpson and banishing Keith Downing - before a first return with City to his old club - there was a toxic atmosphere that seemed to affect the players as much as it was reflected among traveling supporters, some of who variously called for Pearson to be sacked as well as targeting players as not fit to wear the shirt - while singing to celebrate former players.

West Brom's three goals owed much to just getting the ball down the channel to exploit poor full backs, scoring with relatively ease having got in behind over and over - in fact the Baggies could have scored six or more, Pearson hauling off teenager George Tanner for a loose back pass which nearly provided another goal, though it was his replacement Danny Simpson who did the same for a third.

City went into the game introducing fit again Han Noah Massengo for Alex Scott - but his energy was wasted in a game which quickly ran away from the visitors. In just 6 minutes a ball over the top into the right channel put Darrell Furlong into absolute acres of space behind wing back Jay DaSilva and a drilled low ball into the middle was slammed home by Jordan Hugill in behind City's back line.

Amazingly the visitors could have equalised immediately as a disguised touch from Andi Weimann put Nahki Wells clear from the far right but having fired into the far corner and spun away to celebrate Baggies protests for an obvious offside led the linesman to raise his flag a long time after the finish - a right decision but executed in timing that would make VAR seem a reasonable intervention.

Almost immediately a carbon copy of the goal as Conor Townsend got in behind this time on the left, centering the ball to where Hugill hooked over at close range. The hosts continued to dominate and inside quarter of an hour a recycled corner was lobbed back into the box where Tomas Kalas stretching header was backwards into the path of Hugill who slashed over with Bentley to beat.

A game which saw medical emergencies in the stands before both halves would see an ordeal even on the pitch too, as injury prone Nathan Baker appeared to fall to his knees with a serious neck injury, over ten minutes passing before he was stretchered away as Cam Pring entered in his place. The Baggies were all over us and when a shot rebounded to Robert Snodgrass he curled onto the bar.

On the half hour Tanner's loose back pass again gave the hosts a clear run at goal as Hugill raced in before curling a low shot just beyond the far post. Pearson's reaction to this mistake - hauling off the youngster for Simpson drew derision in the away end who sung "you don't know what you're doing" at the early change, though in truth the visitors were shifting into a conventional 4-4-2.

On 37 Weimann's diagonal run got the City forward in behind the home defence on the right but his cross into the middle was too close to the keeper. It was a brief respite as West Brom again piled forward and from a 41st minute right wing corner Kyle Bartley was allowed to rise unchallenged in front of Bentley in the centre of goal to nod low into the bottom corner for a deserved second.

Before the break - which included over ten minutes added on - Simpson found himself miles off yet another Baggies attack and was indebted to Kalas for turning it behind, though the pair argued, the hosts winning a series of corners, and deep into injury time glided easily behind DaSilva again in yards of space to square for Matt Phillips in the box only to miscue with a third inevitable. 

It was no different after an extended break as one way traffic saw West Brom continue to swarm all over their visitors though a brief counter created City's first shot on goal as Weimann intercepted and raced upfield and threaded the ball into the left channel where Wells return ball was straight to the keeper. Next Simpson stole the ball for Weimann who slid it across but DaSilva's shot was blocked. 

It felt like City might be starting to fight back but they routinely surrendered second balls from set pieces around the Baggies box and retreated at pace, so it was no surprise that after a City corner was cleared, the visitors rapidly retreated and Simpson slipped a silly back pass from the halfway line that simply put Karlan Grant so clear on goal he had the half to himself, smashing it past Bentley.

By now away fans - particularly those which see most of their football at home - tore into players and sung names of those departed. Before the hour City twice got in the way of themselves around the box, first James then Kalas wasting shooting opportunities, each occasion West Brom breaking, the second time Pring lucky to avoid a red card trying to stop a 2 on 1 that should have produced a fourth.

City's best move came after the hour mark as our best player - Massengo - jinked past players in midfield and put Wells out on the left, whose well placed cross into the near post found the otherwise anonymous Chris Martin forcing a point blank save off a close range header. From the corner at a second attempt City had players in space from the right but Martin's shot went for a throw in.

Calum O'Dowda replaced DaSilva but it was all West Brom moving the ball with ease and running at City, before 70 Jayson Molumby on the run smashed a rising 30 yard shot just over the bar and then the Baggies tore their woeful opponents open again to get in  behind, Hugill clear in the box with just the keeper to beat forcing a save from an angle, the hosts unable to turn home the rebound.

City had a brief spell of football (by brief I mean strung more than 2 passes together) and Weimann broke on the right and fed to Wells who steered a shot straight at the keeper. With ten remaining Martin brought the ball down in the box and lifted it across the last man to where O'Dowda managed to misconnect a diving header with just the keeper to beat. The jeers just grew louder.

The remaining exchanges were irrelevant as West Brom lowered the gears though would still pepper the City goal from corners - and we threw Bakinson on for bundle of energy Massengo (cue more jeers), the away side at least creating the final chance, Weimann heading over a Wells early ball. It did little to soften a toxic capacity away end, some now singing the name of Lee Johnson and others.

Nigel Pearson has had a lot of patience and arguably a) we'd always expected nothing today and b) those that turned so rapidly on both players and manager don't regularly see City away, but it is inescapable that sudden coaching changes over the last 24 hours reflect the chaos that then turned up on the pitch - indeed we've been poor for weeks (including our last two wins) and are now in freefall.

 

Bentley 5

Kalas 5

Atkinson 5

Baker 5

Tanner 4

DaSilva 4

James 5

Massengo 6

Weimann 5

Wells 6

Martin 3

 

Pring 4

Simpson 4 

O'Dowda 4

Bakinson 

No way Pring a 4, did ok in a tough situation, James hardly made an attempt to tackle let alone make one, Han looked about 80% fit but kept trying his best which is the least any can do. Pointless playing Martin for this one as I said yesterday. As a 3 in defence the better teams will kill us, tryng to change it good, but Simpson simply past it now. 

[Wiltshire robin]

15 minutes ago, MrBibs said:

The old fan songs that used to sung for Famara, Bobby Reid, Bryan, Pack, Flint, Webster, Paterson  and a fair few others.

Also East end bounce around followed by West Brom bounce around

Some of it felt like a bit of gallows humour to me.

Bit disappointed basso’s song wasn’t included

[CotswoldRed]

Cheers Rob. 

At least I didn't have to endure that garbage today..... as I was busy watching my nipper playing for West Brom (Powerchair footy). 

[RedLionLad]

43 minutes ago, italian dave said:

I thought it was “cry” not “die” and assumed it was aimed at someone else they’d picked out among the city fans - but I may have misheard or misinterpreted too. Shocking if it was as you thought.

I’m not suggesting toxicity should be aimed at anyone, but I don’t think it’s just the players. The manager has to shoulder some of the blame. Too many players are being asked to do things that are clearly not playing to or using their strengths. It was woeful, but that woefulness (is that a word?!) was as much about the way we set up, our lack of a plan or shape, our lack of confidence as it was about any individual performance - poor as many were.

Pretty sure it was ‘cry’ and not ‘die’.

[italian dave]

36 minutes ago, Wiltshire robin said:

Bit disappointed basso’s song wasn’t included

I heard it, very briefly and quietly! I suspect half of those involved were too young to remember him! 

[Supersonic Robin]

1 hour ago, Akira said:

 

I can take teams playing better than us, being better than us, but I can't take lack of effort. Simpson when he came on looked useless. Dasilva for the first goal I didn't think tracked back anywhere near as quickly as he should've done. 

And they could've been 5 up at half time. 

2nd half was equally as bad as the first, but they utilised the wings much much better than we did. 

Didn't expect anything from the game, however I do expect effort. Which I felt we lacked in almost every position. Martin up top barely did a thing. We couldn't wait to hoof it or pass back. 

Calling for Nige to go, still baffles me, for many reasons highlighted over this last week. He's a proven manager, who needs time. He also needs some funds to improve what is a rather shite team. Whether he'll get that, remains to be seen, but feel it's incredibly unfair to judge him when he's dealing with so much crap really. I genuinely can't see how any other manager would get a tune out of this squad. 

Yepp, the lack of effort, commitment and application is what frustrates most.

It really is incredible to consider how frequently we've failed to compete in the last 24 months. Really depressing when you think about it.

Agree that people are too hasty to sack NP though. I'm not sure that any manager could realistically do a lot better. We're in a crap position and it's going to take a good while to resolve it.

[RedLionLad]

4 minutes ago, italian dave said:

I heard it, very briefly and quietly! I suspect half of those involved were too young to remember him! 

Probably don’t know many of the current team either…

[Mr Popodopolous]

You'd hope if nothing else that a side will leave everything on the pitch.

The Fulham game a good example- and this even if you aren't the most fluid, or don't always get the results, this should be a benchmark. In fact it should be a basic requirement, the starting point.

We haven't done this post the International break, or at best the 1st half v Nottingham Forest.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[REDOXO]

I have watched every game this season, until today. Today I had a lovely afternoon watching Stelling and final score while kickin back and not worrying about this utter bollocks. 
 

I will point out at this point I don’t blame Pearson for this utter shit show. I do blame, those that had the power to install a bloke that pissed money away and a numpty who apparently was our best candidate.

However I will be controversial about one thing. We are bound to lose with HNM playing. The boy is decent enough with little drag backs and neat skills, but if we need to score or defend a lead he would be the last player that should be on the field. The stats speak for themselves. Flip side is, who the **** else is there? 
 

Anyway today I haven’t had a lousy afternoon followed by a lousier evening.  I quite enjoyed that. 

[Mr Chappers]

Cheers Ole, not a great performance again. If this carries on, definitely a chance of joining the relegation battle, and NP’s position will be under scrutiny. So far, no signs of improvement since he joined.

[maxjak]

3 hours ago, Akira said:

Was one of the worst performances I've seen of City in a long time sadly. It was glaringly obvious within 5 mins or so, with the amount of back passes to Bentley that they lacked the quality and confidence against a very good West Brom team. 

I can take teams playing better than us, being better than us, but I can't take lack of effort. Simpson when he came on looked useless. Dasilva for the first goal I didn't think tracked back anywhere near as quickly as he should've done. 

And they could've been 5 up at half time. 

Talking of half time, the fan who collapsed, hope he recovers, couldn't quite believe what I was hearing when the west brom 'fans' to the left started chanting "he's gonna die in a minute". Truly shocking, unless I misheard it somehow? 

2nd half was equally as bad as the first, but they utilised the wings much much better than we did. 

Their number 5 centre back, Bartley, was an absolute beast. 

Didn't expect anything from the game, however I do expect effort. Which I felt we lacked in almost every position. Martin up top barely did a thing. We couldn't wait to hoof it or pass back. 

Calling for Nige to go, still baffles me, for many reasons highlighted over this last week. He's a proven manager, who needs time. He also needs some funds to improve what is a rather shite team. Whether he'll get that, remains to be seen, but feel it's incredibly unfair to judge him when he's dealing with so much crap really. I genuinely can't see how any other manager would get a tune out of this squad. 

Disappointing to hear the fans getting toxic, it should be aimed at the players way more than the manager, given the money they earn and the woeful performance they've given. 

Edit - on a positive, had one of the best curries I've ever had in a lush pub called The Royal Oak, which was a pub/curry house. Spoke to some really friendly WBA fans in there too, which is always nice not having to worry about wearing your teams colours etc. 

Martin is running on empty, and has to be rested...and Simpson probably cannot believe that he has managed to steal a years salary IMHO.

Edited October 24, 2021 by maxjak

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, maxjak said:

Martin is running on empty, and has to be rested...and Simpson probably cannot believe that he has managed to steal a years salary IMHO.

Agreed with both. Tbh thought Martin needed a rest weeks ago but his goals vs QPR and Peterborough are a strong counterargument- surely does now though.

Simpson? Would sooner have Vyner as 1st reserve in that position, unsure where he's gone- just vanished. Simpson it's fair to say is past his best.

Edited October 24, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Pezo]

We have been completely overwhelmed by both Bournemouth and West brom sides putting in 3rd gear performances within a week of each other with Fulham looking considerably better than us and us only looking competitive through maximum effort.

Are parachute payments making more of a gap than ever before, are they now a guarantee of finishing in the top 6 rather than a very big helping hand?

[Jeez]

7 minutes ago, Pezo said:

Are parachute payments making more of a gap than ever before, are they now a guarantee of finishing in the top 6 rather than a very big helping hand?

They always have & it was always inevitable that gap was going to widen over time. Covid is now accelerating it.

But we can’t use it as an excuse.

This club has had the time & resources at its disposal to create a well run scouting & talent acquisition model, we started going there but didn’t commit & now we end up with a random group of players.

So frustrating.

[RedRock]

59 minutes ago, Pezo said:

We have been completely overwhelmed by both Bournemouth and West brom sides putting in 3rd gear performances within a week of each other with Fulham looking considerably better than us and us only looking competitive through maximum effort.

Are parachute payments making more of a gap than ever before, are they now a guarantee of finishing in the top 6 rather than a very big helping hand?

Personally, thought Forest made us look like mugs as well.

Hmmm….. ‘faster, fitter, stronger’? I think we’ve failed at what should be achieving an easy ‘win’ with any squad.

Maybe we should start working now at the ‘smarter’ instead.

Forget this ‘High Performance Centre’ stuff send them back to the classroom and teach them about winning mentality, being resolute and covering each others backs.

[Red-Robbo]

2 hours ago, RedRock said:

Forget this ‘High Performance Centre’ stuff send them back to the classroom and teach them about winning mentality, being resolute and covering each others backs.

 

It's one of the bitter ironies of this club that since it started calling the training ground the "High Performance Centre" the majority of its performances have been shit. 

[GrahamC]

6 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

It's one of the bitter ironies of this club that since it started calling the training ground the "High Performance Centre" the majority of its performances have been shit. 

It is a truly embarrassing name.

However we’re doing on the pitch it should be called something else.

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

3 hours ago, Pezo said:

We have been completely overwhelmed by both Bournemouth and West brom sides putting in 3rd gear performances within a week of each other with Fulham looking considerably better than us and us only looking competitive through maximum effort.

Are parachute payments making more of a gap than ever before, are they now a guarantee of finishing in the top 6 rather than a very big helping hand?

Parachute payments clearly make a difference but its not the parachute payment per se that presents a problem but that the EFL allow the payments to be used for other than they were intended. The purpose of the payments was to ensure clubs relegated from the Prem could meet their current contract commitments. They were never meant to be used for new contracts or as an additional transfer slush fund. The parachute payment should be a one off payment based on the valuation of current contract commitments, not spread over several years. If the three relegated clubs receive different amounts because of their contract commitment so be it. 

[Pezo]

42 minutes ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

Parachute payments clearly make a difference but its not the parachute payment per se that presents a problem but that the EFL allow the payments to be used for other than they were intended. The purpose of the payments was to ensure clubs relegated from the Prem could meet their current contract commitments. They were never meant to be used for new contracts or as an additional transfer slush fund. The parachute payment should be a one off payment based on the valuation of current contract commitments, not spread over several years. If the three relegated clubs receive different amounts because of their contract commitment so be it. 

While I don't disagree I always wonder what the unintended consequences are, wouldn't that just encourage these clubs to spend even more money, it would basically give all prem teams a blank cheque.

Before parachute payments we had the same teams going up and down but the argument was that the prem was uncompetitive. What parachute payments have done is push that uncompetitive situation down on the championship.

[shelts]

Can’t say I agree with the report 

[Merrick's Marvels]

4 hours ago, Pezo said:

Are parachute payments making more of a gap than ever before, 

Well at times we've barely been able to lay a glove on the likes Watford, Norwich  Bournemouth, WBA and Fulham so it certainly feels that way.

It doesn't help that we sit there watching this in the full knowledge that we've currently got the most expensive set of players in our entire history who - as a team - are pretty mediocre, in fact borderline dysfunctional.

This is compounded by the vivid recent memories we have of a team built on League 1 players who stuck it to Man Utd and made Man City sing for their supper. 

The million dollar question is do we have the time to find a better mix of players, a potentially lengthy process, or do we go for the shortcut and change the bloke in charge of them? 

We have Barnsley, Birmingham, Coventry and Blackburn up next. Unless we get back on track against that lot, even Pearson's staunchest supporters might begin to wonder about the answer to that million dollar question. 

[Pezo]

7 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Well at times we've barely been able to lay a glove on the likes Watford, Norwich  Bournemouth, WBA and Fulham so it certainly feels that way.

It doesn't help that we sit there watching this in the full knowledge that we've currently got the most expensive set of players in our entire history who - as a team - are pretty mediocre, in fact borderline dysfunctional.

This is compounded by the vivid recent memories we have of a team built on League 1 players who stuck it to Man Utd and made Man City sing for their supper. 

The million dollar question is do we have the time to find a better mix of players, a potentially lengthy process, or do we go for the shortcut and change the bloke in charge of them? 

We have Barnsley, Birmingham, Coventry and Blackburn up next. Unless we get back on track against that lot, even Pearson's staunchest supporters might begin to wonder about the answer to that million dollar question. 

Yes it's quite a dilemma, the clear problem is we don't have enough good enough players.

If we're thinking of sacking the manager the conclusion we need to have come to is that this isn't ever going to work, the next question is who to replace him with, for me I can see this working but not this or next season, I don't like it but I can see it.

As the known problem is the players and we can't just sack them all what else can we do other than bide our time and hope not to get relegated. A different manager might get a short term bounce but that's far from guaranteed with this group of players.

For those that want to see us win every week and watch entertaining football, I just can't see anything other than "come back in 2 years and see how we're doing".

[RedRock]

Just don’t think a chance of manager will help.

Confidence is key, but we all know from experience of this lot that they are so brittle confidence-wise that any improvement triggered by the arrival of a new manager will be a blip and they will just revert back to type. 
 

What Big Nige says about this squad is spot on. A smaller size required with quality not quantity, not constantly sending young players out on loans, massive improvements in physical and mental strength needed etc. 
 

The thought of a new manager having to ‘learn’ about our players weaknesses all over again, with the likes of CoD being given his 150th chance, fills me with dread.

No, I’m a stick, even though some of Nige’s decisions have both surprised and disappointed me. In for the long haul, but it could be a relegation I fear before any bounce back. Depressingly bad. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Parachute Payments.

Undoubtedly an issue that needs fixing but not solely the issue either. See strong performances- albeit to date- by Coventry, Luton, Millwall and QPR this season relative to resources, Blackburn have sold their top scorer and so far are in the hunt for the top 6. I also forgot Blackpool, looking very useful but early days.

Albeit the top 3 look quite well set thusfar.

Sheffield United should become strong and Huddersfield well they struggled significantly in the last 2 seasons, third and final year of them this season. 

Barnsley making the playoffs, Brentford winning them last season are indicators of hope though.

Bournemouth and West Brom depth wise actually looked a bit thin. Maybe they've rectified with loans but are one or both overperforming a bit?

Just wondering how their situation looks if they get 5-6 injuries ranging from medium to long term, you know like we often get. Fulham clearly though have the squad best equipped to cope in that scenario.

Edited October 24, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Street red]

I'm glad the atmosphere is toxic because I can see pearson firing that gun.. Coaching staff leaving which to me is well over due. Staff from the Johnson Ashton Holden era need to be gone Kalas Palmer Dasilva wiemann Martin o'dowda etc etc these players need to be sold on, People might say what you on about but theyve produced nothing for this football club on a consistent basis and bottling it playing against West brom because they are better team.. Look at the players faces body language getting off the coach did that look like players up for the game.They dont deserve a rating from that yesterday .. Put that red shirt on and give them a game!! Backing needs to given to Pearson because we won't be going to the promise land anytime soon!!! 

Edited October 24, 2021 by Street red

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just on Parachute Payments as well.

Not entirely sure when they came in but was complaining last season that Cardiff had either PL or Parachute cash between 2013/14 and 2020/21. 8 seasons. 

Two clubs say hold my beer. Although Wiki says they first were introduced in 2006/07 which can't be right.

West Brom

1st PL season 2002/03. This is therefore at minimum, well thy were much lower prior to 2006 but from 2002/03 to present, that's 20 successive seasons that they have been in receipt of some kinda PL or Parachute cash.

Fulham

Went up in 2000/01. Stayed in the PL 1st time around for 13 years. 13? Unlucky for some but not for Fulham, as this is season 21 and counting. They were relegated probably when Parachute Payments were rising in 2014.

Edited October 24, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[RedRock]

1 minute ago, JonDolman said:

Teams with smaller budgets are capable at times of doing well against the biggest in this division. Coventry beat Fulham 4-1. Some of our fans seemed delighted with a 1-1 draw where they should have scored about 3 or 4 times at the end, missing absolute sitters.

WBA shouldn't be THAT much better than us. Stoke and Swansea have beaten them this season.

Peterborough, Derby, Preston and Millwall have all got draws agains WBA this season.

A number of others don't seem to have been thrashed by them, only losing by one goal and WBA didnt seem to manage to create anywhere near as many chances against those sides.

I don't know but it could well be that was the easiest or 2nd easiest game WBA have had all season, as they did also thrash Sheffield United. They should have scored a few more than they did yesterday though.

So I don't agree when people say we can't compete with these sides. Others can so we should at least be able to make it difficult for them, even if we do lose.

Thought second half was a lot better, but doesn't really matter by that point. And that's only comparing us to our own awful performance 1st half. We were still 2nd best 2nd half.

No excuses. Disappointing that our CEO gave the players a real-made excuse this week about WBA and the likes. just shows how weak the mentality of our squad is in my opinion. 
 

Fed up of reading opposition fans saying we’re the worst team they’ve played all season, particularly galling when they say we have no plan or identity… didn’t come to attack or defend…just offered nothing. That’s brutal and worrying in equal measure.

[Mr Popodopolous]

25 minutes ago, RedRock said:

No excuses. Disappointing that our CEO gave the players a real-made excuse this week about WBA and the likes. just shows how weak the mentality of our squad is in my opinion. 
 

Fed up of reading opposition fans saying we’re the worst team they’ve played all season, particularly galling when they say we have no plan or identity… didn’t come to attack or defend…just offered nothing. That’s brutal and worrying in equal measure.

I think things have only really gone south this season since the return from 2nd international break.

I had a bit of cautious optimism after the Peterborough win as the way I saw it was an okay start and now 2 weeks to get the squad refreshed and into very good shape.

To really minimise injuries and get those fitness levels through a mix of work and rest right up.

We've had ups and downs, clearly the home record issue predating it before then but the last 3, perhaps the 1st half at home v Nottingham Forest aside haven't been good to say the least.

Edited October 24, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Red Exile]

2 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

This is compounded by the vivid recent memories we have of a team built on League 1 players who stuck it to Man Utd and made Man City sing for their supper. 

What strikes me is how many of the players in that side are currently playing in the Championship - Flint, Joe Bryan, Korey, Marlon, Patterson, Bobby - you could make an argument for each and every one of them walking into our side right now, four years later.

[Bristol Oil Services]

8 hours ago, Pezo said:

We have been completely overwhelmed by both Bournemouth and West brom sides putting in 3rd gear performances within a week of each other with Fulham looking considerably better than us and us only looking competitive through maximum effort.

Are parachute payments making more of a gap than ever before, are they now a guarantee of finishing in the top 6 rather than a very big helping hand?

Our record season by season over the four games v the eventual top two automatically promoted clubs in points and goal difference:

15/16: 6 points, -3 gd

16/17: 4 points, -2

17/18: 4 points, -1

18/19: 7 points, +1

19/20: 0 (nil) points, -9

20/21: 1 point, -10

 

So, started ok, got better, peaked, fell off a cliff.

 

And our record over the same period over the six games v the three relegated parachute-payment minted clubs:

15/16: 2 points, -10 gd

16/17: 5 points, -2

17/18: 11 points, +2

18/19: 12 points, +5

19/20: 10 points, +3

20/21: 1 point, -12.

 

So, started meekly,  improved quickly, peaked, still good, fell off a cliff.

 

Conclusion: it's not about them, it's all about us.

 

Edited October 24, 2021 by Moments of Pleasure

[Bristol Oil Services]

5 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

It's one of the bitter ironies of this club that since it started calling the training ground the "High Performance Centre" the majority of its performances have been shit. 

Wonder if it's got "Making Bristol Proud" plastered all over it, too?

[Pezo]

33 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

Our record season by season over the four games v the eventual top two automatically promoted clubs in points and goal difference:

15/16: 6 points, -3 gd

16/17: 4 points, -2

17/18: 4 points, -1

18/19: 7 points, +1

19/20: 0 (nil) points, -9

20/21: 1 point, -10

 

So, started ok, got better, peaked, fell off a cliff.

 

And our record over the same period over the six games v the three relegated parachute-payment minted clubs:

15/16: 2 points, -10 gd

16/17: 5 points, -2

17/18: 11 points, +2

18/19: 12 points, +5

19/20: 10 points, +3

20/21: 1 point, -12.

 

So, started meekly,  improved quickly, peaked, still good, fell off a cliff.

 

Conclusion: it's not about them, it's all about us.

 

Does that highlight when we "went for it" and we all thought that it was natural progression?