That miss

[BS3_RED]

I thought Scott's miss against Forest was bad but Barnsleys in injury time was the worst I think I have ever seen. The ball must have been on the line and their player managed to head it over. 

 

About time luck went our way. 

Edited October 30, 2021 by BS3_RED

[Dullmoan Tone]

TBF he was under significant pressure - it wasn't an open goal.

I think I have seen more opposition easy misses this season than ever.

If that had gone in, I can't begin to imagine the reaction of the crowd or how different we would all feel right now.

And the mad thing, even Pearson admits this, is we weren't good today and the stats show we were outplayed by the bottom team.

Not sure luck will last long.

[The Gasbuster]

I'm at the back of the South Stand, so couldn't really make out what happened.

I thought you were referring to Nahki's miss.

[BS3_RED]

1 minute ago, The Gasbuster said:

I'm at the back of the South Stand, so couldn't really make out what happened.

I thought you were referring to Nahki's miss.

No, though Nahki is a lot better than that finish. He panicked I think.

[Sleepy1968]

1 hour ago, BS3_RED said:

I thought Scott's miss against Forest was bad but Barnsleys in injury time was the worst I think I have ever seen. The ball must have been on the line and their player managed to head it over. 

 

About time luck went our way. 

All I know is that I birthed more than a dozen kittens during the last quarter of the match. I didn't have the best view of that incident, all I remember is being flabbergasted and mightily relieved not to see the ball in the back of the net.

[Galley is our king]

2 hours ago, BS3_RED said:

No, though Nahki is a lot better than that finish. He panicked I think.

Right in front of me, great ball, didn't need to rush but smashed it high and wide.

At least get it on target and make their keeper make a save.

Very poor attempt which would have taken the pressure off.

[Clevedon Red]

Just watched it on the highlights……still can’t believe how he missed, amazing.

Edited October 31, 2021 by Clevedon Red

[Kid in the Riot]

Looked like questionable decision-making from Bentley to come out of his goal to me. Gamble certainly didn't pay-off and nearly cost us. 

[Red white and red]

2 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Looked like questionable decision-making from Bentley to come out of his goal to me. Gamble certainly didn't pay-off and nearly cost us. 

Yeah I agree with that. No reason for Bentley to come out that far. He’s not known for his presence in the air. Put the pressure back on the defenders with that decision. 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Looked like questionable decision-making from Bentley to come out of his goal to me. Gamble certainly didn't pay-off and nearly cost us. 

If you go for that cross, you go with conviction and make Brittain bottle it.  Got caught in no-man’s land, probably because his initial thought was indecisive and delayed.

But he made a couple of cracking saves.

He must know it’s a development area.

[petehinton]

Cole missing from here to keep his old man happy 

[Galley is our king]

1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

We have had some amazing luck this season. Incredible they didn't score some of those chances, especially the one at the end. 

What about the bad luck? 

Doesn't that count? 

I assume because it fits your view of NP that when we lose points in the final minutes it's due to poor management but if we gain points or fail to lose them it's just dumb luck.....

[Oh Louie louie]

We were lucky when martin cleared off the line.

Looked like bents was lucky there too tbf.

[Zookeeper WSM]

7 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Forest maybe the only game we were unlucky because of decisions. The goal shouldn't have been allowed. Thought Forest were the better team though and the way we tried to see the game out was poor. So it was all probably avoidable if better decisions had been made.

I think we were perhaps unlucky to lose to Swansea too. But as a general rule there are so many games that we’ve got more out of than we ‘should’ have over the last 3 seasons. There’s a reason why we are constantly and massively over performing in the actual table v expected goals. I don’t think it’s ‘luck’ as such - to me we seem to pull off desperate, last ditch defending (often Kalas sliding in at the last minute) than others or have inspired performances by Bentley. As I say, this isn’t just this season - it’s the last 3 or so. I can count matches I’ve walked away from thinking we’ve been unlucky in that period on the fingers of one hand I think.

[Davefevs]

I still think Rob got a little Knick on it. Just enough to change where it hit Cole’s head.

[Numero Uno]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

If you go for that cross, you go with conviction and make Brittain bottle it.  Got caught in no-man’s land, probably because his initial thought was indecisive and delayed.

But he made a couple of cracking saves.

He must know it’s a development area.

This is where I differ from most on the forum. Cracking saves are great but they don't impress me as much as others. These higher level pro's train all week to make saves like that, probably making 30-40 saves like that every week if not more. I want to see a keeper who exhibits good decision making and takes pressure off defenders. Why should our centre halves be heading balls underneath their own crossbar all afternoon? And then when the goalkeeper does come, he doesn't get within the next ******* postcode of the ball. No defender wants that behind them.

MOTD was waxing lyrical over Ramsdale yesterday because of the SAVES he made...................and they were great saves, especially the Madison free kick....BUT what impressed me the most in the 20 odd minutes I watched in the concourse before the game was the crosses he was collecting and you could tell from the defenders reactions they appreciated that every last bit as much as the great saves he made.

Edited October 31, 2021 by Numero Uno

[Numero Uno]

6 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Looked like questionable decision-making from Bentley to come out of his goal to me. Gamble certainly didn't pay-off and nearly cost us. 

Crap goalkeeping, end of story. Really crap.

[Sir Geoff]

11 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

This is where I differ from most on the forum. Cracking saves are great but they don't impress me as much as others. These higher level pro's train all week to make saves like that, probably making 30-40 saves like that every week if not more. I want to see a keeper who exhibits good decision making and takes pressure off defenders. Why should our centre halves be heading balls underneath their own crossbar all afternoon? And then when the goalkeeper does come, he doesn't get within the next ******* postcode of the ball. No defender wants that behind them.

MOTD was waxing lyrical over Ramsdale yesterday because of the SAVES he made...................and they were great saves, especially the Madison free kick....BUT what impressed me the most in the 20 odd minutes I watched in the concourse before the game was the crosses he was collecting and you could tell from the defenders reactions they appreciated that every last bit as much as the great saves he made.

Totally agree with everything you say. Bentley just does not command his box.

He's a decent keeper but no more.

Edited October 31, 2021 by Sir Geoff
delete text

[Numero Uno]

3 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Totally agree with everything you say. Bentley just does not command his box.

He's a decent keeper but no more.

Yep. He's a fantastic shot stopper but there is a clear reason why he hasn't made it to the Premiership yet when a couple of years ago he was one you would have expected to push on a bit more.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

This is where I differ from most on the forum. Cracking saves are great but they don't impress me as much as others. These higher level pro's train all week to make saves like that, probably making 30-40 saves like that every week if not more. I want to see a keeper who exhibits good decision making and takes pressure off defenders. Why should our centre halves be heading balls underneath their own crossbar all afternoon? And then when the goalkeeper does come, he doesn't get within the next ******* postcode of the ball. No defender wants that behind them.

MOTD was waxing lyrical over Ramsdale yesterday because of the SAVES he made...................and they were great saves, especially the Madison free kick....BUT what impressed me the most in the 20 odd minutes I watched in the concourse before the game was the crosses he was collecting and you could tell from the defenders reactions they appreciated that every last bit as much as the great saves he made.

Agree, no1.

Its why I liked Maenpaa, solid in every aspect.

[bcfc01]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I still think Rob got a little Knick on it. Just enough to change where it hit Cole’s head.

Tanner giving Cole a push in the back helped as well..

[maxjak]

At the match and also watching on the Highlights, I could not tell which player it was, who  was so unprofessional and sloppy at the throw in for Barnsley's goal ?  i think it was Martin, but i cannot be sure.   The player in question was so, so casual when the ball went out of play, and could so easily have delayed things by being more proactive?   I thought it was very poor, and was an example of how unaware the team is in general at dealing with moments within the game when intelligence and reaction can make such a difference.   The coaches need to drill into them just how important it is to be literally 'on the Ball'  at all times........  if it was Martin?........then at his age, he should have known better?.

Edited October 31, 2021 by maxjak

[Davefevs]

11 minutes ago, maxjak said:

At the match and also watching on the Highlights, I could not tell which player it was, who  was so unprofessional and sloppy at the throw in for Barnsley's goal ?  i think it was Martin, but i cannot be sure.   The player in question was so, so casual when the ball went out of play, and could so easily have delayed things by being more proactive?   I thought it was very poor, and was an example of how unaware the team is in general at dealing with moments within the game when intelligence and reaction can make such a difference.   The coaches need to drill into them just how important it is to be literally 'on the Ball'  at all times........  if it was Martin?........then at his age, he should have known better?.

I think he tried to push it into the crowd, but it bounced straight back into the Barnsley player’s arms off the hoarding.  In hindsight, catch it, run a few yards, then do one of those slow, looping lobs that doesn’t get to the thrower.

[GrahamC]

5 hours ago, Galley is our king said:

What about the bad luck? 

Doesn't that count? 

I assume because it fits your view of NP that when we lose points in the final minutes it's due to poor management but if we gain points or fail to lose them it's just dumb luck.....

Every day of the week.

Great post, we were denied a clear penalty v Forest, Jimmy Sirrell once said the best team always wins, the rest is rumour.

We have the points that we deserve & bad (or good) luck is just bollocks.

[MJP3]

5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

If you go for that cross, you go with conviction and make Brittain bottle it.  Got caught in no-man’s land, probably because his initial thought was indecisive and delayed.

But he made a couple of cracking saves.

 He must know it’s a development area. 

"He must know it’s a development area."

I assume he's been instructed just that, although it may have been his own acceptance, considering the number of punches he's made since conceding a goal, when most thought he should have come out to punch.

Don't get me wrong, I don't expect us to have perfect players in every aspect of the game at our level, and I'm very pleased we have him.

Having said that, I wouldn't object if he had better command of the area and wasn't caught in two minds quite so often.

However, I do wonder (not know) how much a player of his experience can improve in an area they are obviously not confident. Time will tell.

i.e Getting it right 8 out of 10 times (Both the decision and application) can still be very costly in his position.

I feel he, more than others is affected by confidence.

Remember, many of the fans from his 2 previous clubs were happy to see him go, due to his runs of mistakes.

With us, after his first goal conceding error, he was "Flappy" for the following 2 matches.

The next time it was just the following match.

The next time ...ok he was fine the next match, but the blame could be shared among a few players for that one.

I just hope he doesn't feel pressured by staff or fans to do stuff he's not comfortable with. I feel it could backfire on his overall performance.

So if he can improve on those aspects, great.

If not, I'm happy to take him as he is.

 

 

 

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, MJP3 said:

"He must know it’s a development area."

I assume he's been instructed just that, although it may have been his own acceptance, considering the number of punches he's made since conceding a goal, when most thought he should have come out to punch.

Don't get me wrong, I don't expect us to have perfect players in every aspect of the game at our level, and I'm very pleased we have him.

Having said that, I wouldn't object if he had better command of the area and wasn't caught in two minds quite so often.

However, I do wonder (not know) how much a player of his experience can improve in an area they are obviously not confident. Time will tell.

i.e Getting it right 8 out of 10 times (Both the decision and application) can still be very costly in his position.

I feel he, more than others is affected by confidence.

Remember, many of the fans from his 2 previous clubs were happy to see him go, due to his runs of mistakes.

With us, after his first goal conceding error, he was "Flappy" for the following 2 matches.

The next time it was just the following match.

The next time ...ok he was fine the next match, but the blame could be shared among a few players for that one.

I just hope he doesn't feel pressured by staff or fans to do stuff he's not comfortable with. I feel it could backfire on his overall performance.

So if he can improve on those aspects, great.

If not, I'm happy to take him as he is.

 

 

 

Hard work!!  With his GK coach and CBs!!

[GrahamC]

5 hours ago, Oh Louie louie said:

We were lucky when martin cleared off the line.

Looked like bents was lucky there too tbf.

How can you be lucky if one of your players does his job?

The determination of Kalas, Atkinson, Tanner & non defenders like Martin to protect our goal, along with poor finishing by Barnsley won us the game.

[Oh Louie louie]

Graham to say he was lucky was the chris martin goal line clearance?

The trio you mentioned, where were they?

With respect, i dont think chris martins job is defending?

Come off it gra, he was caught in no mans land twice in the 2nd half.

 As i say lucky.

[MJP3]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Hard work!!  With his GK coach and CBs!!

It somehow feels very wrong and dirty of me to disagree with your opinion for the first time.

Love and Appreciate your contributions normally though. (Perhaps he'll go easy on me now.)

"Hard work!!  With his GK coach and CBs!!" is the obvious and simple answer.

However, I haven't heard of anyone of the opinion that he doesn't work hard and is anything but professional.

Regarding coaching, he has been coached (and I assume working hard) for 17 years since joining Arsenal academy at the age of 11.

He is now 28 with over 360 1st team games under his belt and still has that weaker aspect of his game.

So minor improvements are possible, but likely he is close to being as good as he's going to be.

I'd be overjoyed to be proven wrong, but I don't see him ever being known as one to command the box. Improve yes, command no.

I'm still of the opinion that pressuring him to do so, (i.e. change his game drastically) could be detrimental regarding confidence/flappiness.

Brian Tinnion always appeared a dedicated professional among our drunkards of the time. (Story to follow one day)

I can't believe he didn't work on improving his right foot, however, at 28 he probably had to accept he had the right leg of a golfer or snooker player, and there was nothing more he could do to change that to any worthwhile degree.

 

 

 

Edited October 31, 2021 by MJP3

[1960maaan]

1 hour ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Graham to say he was lucky was the chris martin goal line clearance?

The trio you mentioned, where were they?

With respect, i dont think chris martins job is defending?

Come off it gra, he was caught in no mans land twice in the 2nd half.

 As i say lucky.

It was a corner, Martin was back to defend so it was his job TBF.
Bentley was drawn to the near post to cover, they hit the bar and it bounced to their player and Martin is in the right place, Bents hacks clear.
Martin just happens to be in the right spot as you can see.

The other one I think you mean, "the miss" , he looks really awkward. The thing is, if he just stays on his line he'll get criticised if the ball ball goes to another striker. He tries to block an attempt, yeah looks clumsy , but genuine effort. 
As for the miss, I think Atkinson misses it, but it was a combination of bouncing ball and Kalas nudging Gone in the back that does it. Just enough of a lean not to look bad , but enough to knock him off his stride .

 

There are plenty of times we can criticise Bentley, I think these are a bit harsh. I do want him to dominate his area more, I want him to catch balls more, but I thought he was OK Saturday.  

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, MJP3 said:

It somehow feels very wrong and dirty of me to disagree with your opinion for the first time.

Love and Appreciate your contributions normally though. (Perhaps he'll go easy on me now.)

"Hard work!!  With his GK coach and CBs!!" is the obvious and simple answer.

However, I haven't heard of anyone of the opinion that he doesn't work hard and is anything but professional.

Regarding coaching, he has been coached (and I assume working hard) for 17 years since joining Arsenal academy at the age of 11.

He is now 28 with over 360 1st team games under his belt and still has that weaker aspect of his game.

So minor improvements are possible, but likely he is close to being as good as he's going to be.

I'd be overjoyed to be proven wrong, but I don't see him ever being known as one to command the box. Improve yes, command no.

I'm still of the opinion that pressuring him to do so, (i.e. change his game drastically) could be detrimental regarding confidence/flappiness.

Brian Tinnion always appeared a dedicated professional among our drunkards of the time. (Story to follow one day)

I can't believe he didn't work on improving his right foot, however, at 28 he probably had to accept he had the right leg of a golfer or snooker player, and there was nothing more he could do to change that to any worthwhile degree.

 

 

 

Haha, all part of good debate.  I agree he isn’t gonna change his technical ability now.

I should’ve explained better though.  The collective need to work harder / better on deciding how they want to defend those types of situation. For me he has to stop them dropping towards the 6 yard box (his domain) so he has room to decide whether to come or not.  In turn they need to stop dropping back.

I think we’ve dropped 3-5 yards too deep here.  That’s what needs to be worked on as a collective. Imho

 

[MJP3]

45 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Haha, all part of good debate.  I agree he isn’t gonna change his technical ability now.

I should’ve explained better though.  The collective need to work harder / better on deciding how they want to defend those types of situation. For me he has to stop them dropping towards the 6 yard box (his domain) so he has room to decide whether to come or not.  In turn they need to stop dropping back.

I think we’ve dropped 3-5 yards too deep here.  That’s what needs to be worked on as a collective. Imho

 

Agreed.

Although I'm not great with tactics and shape, I feel we just defend too deep in general, inviting pressure we're frequently not very good at dealing with.

As for Bentley keeping the box clear, I don't think he can overcome the back line's herding instincts without a cattle prod.

(There's probably some silly rule about them on the field of play.)

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, MJP3 said:

I feel we just defend too deep in general, inviting pressure we're frequently not very good at dealing with.

I do too.  Kalas is a bit guilty of it.  I wonder whether for the Czech Republic the technical discipline of two banks of four in international football might lead him to do the same for us.

But by the same token, no point Martin trying to run long every time we clear.  Sometimes come short and allow Wells (or whoever) to utilise the space behind.

[1960maaan]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

The collective need to work harder / better on deciding how they want to defend those types of situation. For me he has to stop them dropping towards the 6 yard box (his domain) so he has room to decide whether to come or not.  In turn they need to stop dropping back.

 

I actually typed out something similar for my post above, deleted it as I'd started to wander, again 

7 minutes ago, MJP3 said:

Although I'm not great with tactics and shape, I feel we just defend too deep in general, inviting pressure we're frequently not very good at dealing with.

As for Bentley keeping the box clear, I don't think he can overcome the back line's herding instincts without a cattle prod.

I'd say generally 5-10 yards too deep, specially as we do have a little pace in the back 4.   
It's something we have done for a while, but it is also a natural thing. Think of all those games where we've battered teams in the last 10-15 minutes. That's not all us being good, some part of that is teams retreating to hold what they have. Better teams will be able to push up and keep the ball better, to see games out, we are a long way off that ATM.
 

[MJP3]

11 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I do too.  Kalas is a bit guilty of it.  I wonder whether for the Czech Republic the technical discipline of two banks of four in international football might lead him to do the same for us.

But by the same token, no point Martin trying to run long every time we clear.  Sometimes come short and allow Wells (or whoever) to utilise the space behind.

Thankfully I'm back to agreeing with everything you say again. The World is normal. The World is good.

Edited November 1, 2021 by MJP3

[bcfc01]

14 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

It was a corner, Martin was back to defend so it was his job TBF.
Bentley was drawn to the near post to cover, they hit the bar and it bounced to their player and Martin is in the right place, Bents hacks clear.
Martin just happens to be in the right spot as you can see.

The other one I think you mean, "the miss" , he looks really awkward. The thing is, if he just stays on his line he'll get criticised if the ball ball goes to another striker. He tries to block an attempt, yeah looks clumsy , but genuine effort. 
As for the miss, I think Atkinson misses it, but it was a combination of bouncing ball and Kalas nudging Gone in the back that does it. Just enough of a lean not to look bad , but enough to knock him off his stride .

 

There are plenty of times we can criticise Bentley, I think these are a bit harsh. I do want him to dominate his area more, I want him to catch balls more, but I thought he was OK Saturday.  

I had it in my head that it was Tanner who gave Cole a push in the back but that pic clearly shows it was Kalas. I held my breath at the time as I thought they may get a penalty. But a clever "lean" by Kalas put enough doubt into the refs mind.

[Clutton Caveman]

On 30/10/2021 at 19:00, Dullmoan Tone said:

TBF he was under significant pressure - it wasn't an open goal.

I think I have seen more opposition easy misses this season than ever.

If that had gone in, I can't begin to imagine the reaction of the crowd or how different we would all feel right now.

And the mad thing, even Pearson admits this, is we weren't good today and the stats show we were outplayed by the bottom team.

Not sure luck will last long.

He keeps saying we were not good, when is he going to do something about it?

[1960maaan]

1 hour ago, bcfc01 said:

I had it in my head that it was Tanner who gave Cole a push in the back but that pic clearly shows it was Kalas. I held my breath at the time as I thought they may get a penalty. But a clever "lean" by Kalas put enough doubt into the refs mind.

It was one of those, never gonna get near challenges, one that nudges the player enough to put him off. TBF even Cole doesn't moan, it was that subtle.