Chris Wilder - Would you swap?

[Unan]

If you could.

[Phileas Fogg]

It's a very difficult question. On paper it seems quite an intriguing option - but is there any guarantee another manager could do much better with our weak squad and lack of funds?

I've answered no, and that's not because I don't rate Wilder, it's because if Wilder did come in there'd be yet more upheaval. I think we've got to ride it out a bit longer before thinking about a change. 

[Finley_Smith10]

He’s not going to be sacked. It’s a 3 year contract and we apparently don’t have the funds anyway even if we did want to sack him 

[KegCity]

If we’re still playing like this in a month or two, yes, but it’s not happening. Not convinced he’d come.

[Phileas Fogg]

Interestingly, Wilder is someone we've looked at before apparently. I believe this was during one of Lee Johnson's bad runs early in his tenure. If I remember correctly, he turned us down and went on to take the Sheffield United job.

[And Its Smith]

Wilder would never come here so it’s pretty pointless really.  

[Selred]

Just now, And Its Smith said:

Wilder would never come here so it’s pretty pointless really.  

He was very interested in the job when he was at Oxford

[And Its Smith]

9 minutes ago, Selred said:

He was very interested in the job when he was at Oxford

Can’t see how that is relevant.  He’s achieved a lot of success since then so would go to a better team/run club than us. 

[Phileas Fogg]

It would be interesting to do a similar poll on whether you'd swap Pearson for Ryan Lowe. You'd have to question whether he'd come here either. 

I wouldn't want Pearson to leave personally. I think he needs to be given time. He knew what he was getting himself into when he joined but we won't be a quick fix. The key this season is staying up, relegation cannot be an option. 

[And Its Smith]

5 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

It would be interesting to do a similar poll on whether you'd swap Pearson for Ryan Lowe. You'd have to question whether he'd come here either. 

I wouldn't want Pearson to leave personally. I think he needs to be given time. He knew what he was getting himself into when he joined but we won't be a quick fix. The key this season is staying up, relegation cannot be an option. 

I think Lowe would come. Much bigger club with more potential. Will probably soon hit a ceiling where he is now. It wouldn’t be a popular one though as a lot of city fans seem snobbish about such appointments. Managers like Mark Robins wasn’t wanted in the main and look what he’s doing at Coventry. Blackpool and Luton doing well also. Their managers wouldn’t have been wanted. All of those teams have a style and a plan that they execute well. Must be nice!

[GrahamC]

7 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

It would be interesting to do a similar poll on whether you'd swap Pearson for Ryan Lowe. You'd have to question whether he'd come here either. 

I wouldn't want Pearson to leave personally. I think he needs to be given time. He knew what he was getting himself into when he joined but we won't be a quick fix. The key this season is staying up, relegation cannot be an option. 

Agree & it is the case that no one wanted Lowe when Pearson was appointed.

He’s doing very well but like anyone who has never managed at this level it is a gamble.

I think Pearson needs time & do understand the circumstances he’s working under but it is the manner of last night’s defeat that depresses me, as in games lost earlier in the season (Swansea for one) you could see organisation & a plan, you couldn’t see either at Brum.

[marmite]

I  don't think Wilder could get this team playing. May as well swap Nige for Barton.  Leave alone till Jan at least imo.

[And Its Smith]

1 minute ago, GrahamC said:

Agree & it is the case that no one wanted Lowe when Pearson was appointed.

He’s doing very well but like anyone who has never managed at this level it is a gamble.

I think Pearson needs time & do understand the circumstances he’s working under but it is the manner of last night’s defeat that depresses me, as in games lost earlier in the season (Swansea for one) you could see organisation & a plan, you couldn’t see either at Brum.

Is it a gamble?  Many many examples of overseas managers coming in and doing very well and promoted teams doing very well too.  Russell Martin is the latest example. Barely managed, let alone at this level, and his Swansea team have a plan and they are getting better the longer he is there. 

Maybe the gamble is appointing aged managers like McCarthy, Hughton, Pearson and Warnock who are all under achieved recently.  
 

 

[Hampshire reds]

i would change the manager but i have said enough on that front. Nigel is going no where unless he decides to leave the club. With Paul and Keith leaving i do think they should be replaced with a top coach a new voice new ideas. Nigel must know a few out there that he can call on.

[Davefevs]

31 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

It would be interesting to do a similar poll on whether you'd swap Pearson for Ryan Lowe. You'd have to question whether he'd come here either. 

I wouldn't want Pearson to leave personally. I think he needs to be given time. He knew what he was getting himself into when he joined but we won't be a quick fix. The key this season is staying up, relegation cannot be an option. 

Wouldn’t mind Lowe and Pearson.

[Phileas Fogg]

10 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Is it a gamble?  Many many examples of overseas managers coming in and doing very well and promoted teams doing very well too.  Russell Martin is the latest example. Barely managed, let alone at this level, and his Swansea team have a plan and they are getting better the longer he is there. 

Maybe the gamble is appointing aged managers like McCarthy, Hughton, Pearson and Warnock who are all under achieved recently.  

What's always interested me about successful sides around our level is how they have a clear plan for managerial appointments as well as players.

I think what they've essentially got right is the 'identity' of the entire side - thus managerial appointments are easier because they can appoint managers who will work within that structure.

Two clubs who consistently get managerial appointments right are Brentford and Swansea. Russell Martin was a very obvious choice for Swansea, he fits that Graham Potter mould of young progressive coach. I wouldn't be surprised if Ryan Lowe ends up there in a season or two actually. Likewise Brentford seem to recruit managers really well - I wonder if they recruit managers using a similar statistical technique to how they recruit players.

Easy to say from the outside - but those clubs seem to don't let sentiment get in the way when choosing managers. If we look at our last decade or so of hirings and firings.. It's been a scattergun approach littered with heart ruling head. Feels like we seldom make managerial appointments in a rational or consistent way. 

 

[Phileas Fogg]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Wouldn’t mind Lowe and Pearson.

I'd be very interested in a combination like that.

I think Pearson needs time - he's inherited a mess and doesn't have the funds to change things quickly.

My doubts about him are whether he's as effective without his old team around him and whether he's been actively involved in football enough in the last few years. 

In recent years he's had a spell abroad, a few months at Watford and had Covid twice. Perhaps his heart isn't in it as much as it was 5/10 years ago. He seems to want a strong work/life balance and clearly has other interests outside football. In human terms, that's of course perfectly reasonable. I wonder though in the modern game whether you can get away with that - all modern top managers seem utterly obsessed with the game. Obviously that's me thinking out loud.. but I'd be lying if I didn't admit I'd started to wonder..

[Redstart]

I could see Wilder getting Norwich if they bin Farke in the near future. 

[DolmanGaz]

Any guarantee that he could get our squad performing better than at present? No.

 

Any chance he could have them playing any worse than at present? Very unlikely!

[GrahamC]

40 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Is it a gamble?  Many many examples of overseas managers coming in and doing very well and promoted teams doing very well too.  Russell Martin is the latest example. Barely managed, let alone at this level, and his Swansea team have a plan and they are getting better the longer he is there. 

Maybe the gamble is appointing aged managers like McCarthy, Hughton, Pearson and Warnock who are all under achieved recently.  
 

 

Fair comment.

Our overall track record is pretty poor but that’s not a good reason for never trying his route.

We went down the Scottish route with McInnes & that failed, whereas Norwich appointed Neil in the same way & it worked.

Looks like it is us, rather than the type..

[GrahamC]

24 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I'd be very interested in a combination like that.

I think Pearson needs time - he's inherited a mess and doesn't have the funds to change things quickly.

My doubts about him are whether he's as effective without his old team around him and whether he's been actively involved in football enough in the last few years. 

In recent years he's had a spell abroad, a few months at Watford and had Covid twice. Perhaps his heart isn't in it as much as it was 5/10 years ago. He seems to want a strong work/life balance and clearly has other interests outside football. In human terms, that's of course perfectly reasonable. I wonder though in the modern game whether you can get away with that - all modern top managers seem utterly obsessed with the game. Obviously that's me thinking out loud.. but I'd be lying if I didn't admit I'd started to wonder..

Don’t think for a minute his heart isn’t in it, he just is a different type than many other managers.

I don’t think he’s the type who will walk out, he comes across as dispassionate about results but think that’s just a front.

He has 1 part of his old team around him, the others aren’t available.

My hunch is unless it gets really bad, so bottom three, he’s here for the season.

[Mr Chappers]

27 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

What's always interested me about successful sides around our level is how they have a clear plan for managerial appointments as well as players.

I think what they've essentially got right is the 'identity' of the entire side - thus managerial appointments are easier because they can appoint managers who will work within that structure.

Two clubs who consistently get managerial appointments right are Brentford and Swansea. Russell Martin was a very obvious choice for Swansea, he fits that Graham Potter mould of young progressive coach. I wouldn't be surprised if Ryan Lowe ends up there in a season or two actually. Likewise Brentford seem to recruit managers really well - I wonder if they recruit managers using a similar statistical technique to how they recruit players.

Easy to say from the outside - but those clubs seem to don't let sentiment get in the way when choosing managers. If we look at our last decade or so of hirings and firings.. It's been a scattergun approach littered with heart ruling head. Feels like we seldom make managerial appointments in a rational or consistent way. 

 

We tried that by appointing DH with two good coaches to support him. Fans were in uproar because the groupthink was ‘experienced manager’ and even a huge injury list was no excuse. 
 

 

[Bar BS3]

1 hour ago, Selred said:

He was very interested in the job when he was at Oxford

Harry Kane went on loan to Millwall. I doubt that's likely to be his next destination now..! 

[Phileas Fogg]

2 minutes ago, Mr Chappers said:

We tried that by appointing DH with two good coaches to support him. Fans were in uproar because the groupthink was ‘experienced manager’ and even a huge injury list was no excuse. 
 

 

I don't think Holden is a great example because it didn't fit what we needed at that time. I'm not necessarily advocating us going for a young progressive manager - just that Swansea and Brentford seem to have recruited to a type rather than lurching from one extreme to another. 

I think probably the time to appoint Pearson was when Johnson went. I was also very interested in suggestions such as Arne Slot. What we didn't need at that time was inexperience - and that's what we went for. 

*Of course this is without factoring in Covid which may have dictated the Holden appointment to a degree. 

[Fordy62]

1 hour ago, And Its Smith said:

I think Lowe would come. Much bigger club with more potential. Will probably soon hit a ceiling where he is now. It wouldn’t be a popular one though as a lot of city fans seem snobbish about such appointments. Managers like Mark Robins wasn’t wanted in the main and look what he’s doing at Coventry. Blackpool and Luton doing well also. Their managers wouldn’t have been wanted. All of those teams have a style and a plan that they execute well. Must be nice!

I wanted Robins!

[ray savino]

Like all the names bandied about, who knows? We’ve an imbalanced mess of a squad, low on confidence on the back of a 3 year gradual downward spiral, complying to FFP, so little to spend on fees and wages without selling (so we are led to believe). Mammoth job for anybody.

Whoever we would get in has a mammoth job to do, and I have a feeling if things did work it would be more to do with luck/law of averages (we might get a good one one day if we try so many ways)  than judgement from our present board of directors. I am more concerned about the quality of (lack of?) their football decision making judging by the last 5 years or longer. SL and all may be great at developing the physical infrastructure, buildings etc., but seem so naive, changeable and ill advised in making football structure recruitment. I really think our board is lacking real insightful football knowledge of the modern football world today. Business, no real issue (apart from crap pies and price of a pint - and pay on the day ticket prices perhaps!)

What bothers me, he has tried the solid no-nonsense manager types in Cotts and Pearson, the up and coming potential coaches in LJ and Holden, and here we seem to be, back to a rebuild and square one (or league one if we don’t collectively as a club get our fingers out).

Despite our obvious problems in the squad which would challenge most, I’m am so disappointed that even the most basic organisation, difficult to beat, etc. seems to be missing and NP is really struggling to address this. Make no bones about it, NP is really struggling. I don’t think he even thought we would be so poor at this stage of his tenure, still not being able to get the basics right in virtually every games. You can tell that his interviews are feeling more and more resigned, his team selections more desperate as he runs out of options and ideas.

Time for a change? I’m at a loss to know what’s best. But I have little confidence in the present Board of Directors to make a successful decision, judging how we have seemed to fail to build on any potential signs of success (Cotts team, LJ’s 17/18 first 6 months team) by investing poorly and recruitng badly. Talk about shooting ourselves in the foot.

 

[Super]

42 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I'd be very interested in a combination like that.

I think Pearson needs time - he's inherited a mess and doesn't have the funds to change things quickly.

My doubts about him are whether he's as effective without his old team around him and whether he's been actively involved in football enough in the last few years. 

In recent years he's had a spell abroad, a few months at Watford and had Covid twice. Perhaps his heart isn't in it as much as it was 5/10 years ago. He seems to want a strong work/life balance and clearly has other interests outside football. In human terms, that's of course perfectly reasonable. I wonder though in the modern game whether you can get away with that - all modern top managers seem utterly obsessed with the game. Obviously that's me thinking out loud.. but I'd be lying if I didn't admit I'd started to wonder..

You really don't get time in football anymore. If performances and results don't improve he is done.

[Phileas Fogg]

1 minute ago, Super said:

You really don't get time in football anymore. If performances and results don't improve he is done.

I think another bad defeat at the weekend and questions will be asked.. especially given that Lansdown is a big fan of Mark Robins. 

[Super]

2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think another bad defeat at the weekend and questions will be asked.. especially given that Lansdown is a big fan of Mark Robins. 

Think that ship has sailed why would Robins want to come here?

[Phileas Fogg]

Just now, Super said:

Think that ship has sailed why would Robins want to come here?

What I mean really is that it might get Lansdown thinking. He's a big fan of Robins and his name has been mentioned for every vacancy here since 2014 when we appointed Cotterill. 

I can't see us taking Robins from Coventry - but getting comprehensively beaten by a team of a manager Lansdown likes might be the tipping point for him.