Weimann & Martin

[GrahamC]

Pretty obvious they are to blame, eh? Weimann has 7 goals now, Martin 5.

In contrast we have let in 16 in the last 8, 18 away this season in our 9 games.

You have **** all chance of winning very often if you need to score 3 to even get a point.

Defensively we are completely shambolic & I am not excusing the midfield from that, either.

[Super]

We have no leader at the back. Why is Kalas not ranting at players ffs.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Super

[Clevedon Red]

What’s that 1 clean sheet in 27?.

[Kodjias Wrist]

1 minute ago, Super said:

We have no leader at the back. Why is Kalas not ranting at players ffs.

He was

[Dullmoan Tone]

But everyone loves Tanner because he made a few block tackles.

We should never have expected him to be able to step up to this level so soon.

Likewise Vyner has never looked confident and I’ve no idea where the player who wore JD’s shirt last season has gone?

But against all this, the midfield offer no cover - inc HNM who has been part of this mess for too long as well.

[Davefevs]

My gut reaction is that Vyner had a decent enough game bar the penalty he game away.

[daored]

34 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Pretty obvious they are to blame, eh? Weimann has 7 goals now, Martin 5.

In contrast we have let in 16 in the last 8, 18 away this season in our 9 games.

You have **** all chance of winning very often if you need to score 3 to even get a point.

Defensively we are completely shambolic & I am not excusing the midfield from that, either.

This is the biggest concern for me , Pearson was a centre half and a reasonably decent one yet our defence is awful 

[Simon79]

8 minutes ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

But everyone loves Tanner because he made a few block tackles.

We should never have expected him to be able to step up to this level so soon.

Likewise Vyner has never looked confident and I’ve no idea where the player who wore JD’s shirt last season has gone?

But against all this, the midfield offer no cover - inc HNM who has been part of this mess for too long as well.

That’s the least you can do when you keep giving the ball away & that could go for a few others that have been getting away with the same level of criticism that for example Vyner had been receiving. COYR 

[Super]

49 minutes ago, Kodjias Wrist said:

He was

He is as much to blame as the rest.

[AshtonGreat]

55 minutes ago, Super said:

We have no leader at the back. Why is Kalas not ranting at players ffs.

Agreed. Overrated 

Edited November 6, 2021 by AshtonGreat

[Johnr1986]

Agreed our defence has been a mess under Pearson and I included last season aswell, regarding Martin he definitely doesn’t help the cause offers up no outlet in retaining ball or running behind which contributes to the fact we are constantly under pressure 

[johnheadbcfc]

Strikers constantly giving the ball away = more pressure on the defence

[JoeAman08]

They have 12 goals between them in a combined 34 games. A combined over 3000 minutes. A whopping goal every 250 minutes(weimann 1 every 218 minutes and Martin 1 every 296). So are we saying that is good enough? 
 

Our forwards are absolutely shambolic. The ball regularly doesn’t stick to either of them near enough and our defence under constant pressure because of it. Midfield and defence constantly looking up and seeing no movement doesn’t really breed confidence. The entire team could be better but until we give the back 4 and keeper some hope up top our problems will continue
 

 

[pongo88]

32 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

My gut reaction is that Vyner had a decent enough game bar the penalty he game away.

I think “bar” is the key word. He often has good games bar the odd awful mistake or two. He had a decent game against Birmingham bar being at fault for the second and third goals. 

[JoeAman08]

2 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

I think “bar” is the key word. He often has good games bar the odd awful mistake or two. He had a decent game against Birmingham bar being at fault for the second and third goals. 

Bingo. Thought he was really good but made a huge mistake gambling to intercept the initial pass and compounded it by giving the ref a decision even if a bit soft for me. Same thing with Taylor Moore. Decent enough 98% of the time but the 2% often calamitous. 

[The Swan and Cemetery]

4 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

They have 12 goals between them in a combined 34 games. A combined over 3000 minutes. A whopping goal every 250 minutes(weimann 1 every 218 minutes and Martin 1 every 296). So are we saying that is good enough? 
 

Our forwards are absolutely shambolic. The ball regularly doesn’t stick to either of them near enough and our defence under constant pressure because of it. Midfield and defence constantly looking up and seeing no movement doesn’t really breed confidence. The entire team could be better but until we give the back 4 and keeper some hope up top our problems will continue
 

 

Martin/Weimann aren’t world beaters, but 13 teams have scored more than us this season, whereas 20 have conceded fewer. Weimann is joint 10th highest scorer and Martin joint 19th. Feels a stretch to say our goalkeeper/defenders should be expecting better goal scoring before they have a go at some improved defending. 

[Supersonic Robin]

58 minutes ago, Super said:

We have no leader at the back. Why is Kalas not ranting at players ffs.

 

7 minutes ago, Super said:

He is as much to blame as the rest.

 

3 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

Agreed. Overrated 

Kalas has been one of our best players for the last couple of years, and IMHO joins Bentley in the exclusive club of players who can be said to have said to have saved us from relegation last season. I personally think he's been one of our better players so far this season too.

Is it Kalas' fault if everyone around him in defence plays poorly? Is Kalas expected not just to manage his own performance, but also the performances of 3-5 young players around him?

How much more do people realistically want from Kalas? IMO we're very lucky to have a player of his quality given the extreme amount of defending we have to do! Maybe, just maybe, our defensive issues actually lie in the fact that we're so frequently dependent upon Kalas and Bentley to save the day from within our own box........

[johnheadbcfc]

Just now, The Swan and Cemetery said:

Martin/Weimann aren’t world beaters, but 13 teams have scored more than us this season, whereas 20 have conceded fewer. Weimann is joint 10th highest scorer and Martin joint 19th. Feels a stretch to say our goalkeeper/defenders should be expecting better goal scoring before they have a go at some improved defending. 

It's not just the goal scoring, the amount of times they give the ball away,make bad touches and making some really poor runs or lack of.  You are  going to make pressure for everyone behind you.

Sometimes when you see weimann trying to control a ball or shoot it's like watching a child 

[1team]

44 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

My gut reaction is that Vyner had a decent enough game bar the penalty he game away.

I thought he was one of our better players.

There is no competitiveness in midfield. We are relying on a 20 year old to do the work of 3. TB, AW, CO, anonymous.

[JoeAman08]

3 minutes ago, The Swan and Cemetery said:

Martin/Weimann aren’t world beaters, but 13 teams have scored more than us this season, whereas 20 have conceded fewer. Weimann is joint 10th highest scorer and Martin joint 19th. Feels a stretch to say our goalkeeper/defenders should be expecting better goal scoring before they have a go at some improved defending. 

Again, not purely about goals. They are often wasteful and careless in possession. It puts us under constant pressure and don’t offer us any out ball. They aren’t a good pairing regardless of goals which is also not good enough. 

[The Swan and Cemetery]

1 minute ago, johnheadbcfc said:

It's not just the goal scoring, the amount of times they give the ball away,make bad touches and making some really poor runs or lack of.  You are  going to make pressure for everyone behind you.

Sometimes when you see weimann trying to control a ball or shoot it's like watching a child 

Don’t disagree with that and would be great to have better, but still think, whilst both ends of the pitch are a team game, goal scoring is more about forwards than defenders and goal conceding is more about goalkeeper/defenders than strikers. We’re mid table going forward and relegation at the back. 

[pongo88]

2 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Bingo. Thought he was really good but made a huge mistake gambling to intercept the initial pass and compounded it by giving the ref a decision even if a bit soft for me. Same thing with Taylor Moore. Decent enough 98% of the time but the 2% often calamitous. 

I’d forgotten about Taylor Moore but, now you’ve mentioned him, it reminds me that I was a nervous wreck every time he played. I used to enjoy the skilful stuff but was always waiting for the big mistake. There is more to being a good player than skill and attitude. Players need to concentrate for 90 minutes. Some skilful players can’t do it and fade away. Other, less skilful, players can do it and have a good career. IMO Vyner and Moore are League 1 players. You can get away with more mistakes at that level. 

[The Swan and Cemetery]

7 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Again, not purely about goals. They are often wasteful and careless in possession. It puts us under constant pressure and don’t offer us any out ball. They aren’t a good pairing regardless of goals which is also not good enough. 

I’m not saying they’re world beaters, just find the implication that our defence is waiting for them to improve is a bit of a stretch. Our defence has far too many basic mistakes in it, which might be helped by more quality up the pitch, but not solved. Our strikers would also benefit from better distribution from the back.
 

And whilst 2 x Mitrovic would be delightful, mid table goal scoring records is fine for this season in my view.

[Davefevs]

28 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

They have 12 goals between them in a combined 34 games. A combined over 3000 minutes. A whopping goal every 250 minutes(weimann 1 every 218 minutes and Martin 1 every 296). So are we saying that is good enough? 

on this point, absolutely it is good enough….plus 5 assists too.  They are playing in a struggling side.  In Weimann’s case he isn’t a centre forward every week.  On goals record side of the argument, I think you are barking up the wrong tree. That is plenty decent in a bottom half team. But….

Our forwards are absolutely shambolic. The ball regularly doesn’t stick to either of them near enough and our defence under constant pressure because of it. Midfield and defence constantly looking up and seeing no movement doesn’t really breed confidence. The entire team could be better but until we give the back 4 and keeper some hope up top our problems will continue
 

…now you are introducing a different element.  They have been very mixed in this context.

Martin and Weimann aren’t the players I’d be looking to pin all the blame.  They are part of a team struggling.

[GrahamC]

16 minutes ago, The Swan and Cemetery said:

Martin/Weimann aren’t world beaters, but 13 teams have scored more than us this season, whereas 20 have conceded fewer. Weimann is joint 10th highest scorer and Martin joint 19th. Feels a stretch to say our goalkeeper/defenders should be expecting better goal scoring before they have a go at some improved defending. 

Absolutely.

Look at our away wins;

Reading 3-2, Cardiff 2-1, Peterborough 3-2, QPR 2-1, we have had to score 10 to win 4 games!

Weimann has 7 in 17 but apparently that’s “not good enough” **** me, what does that make letting in 27 so far?

The defensive side badly needs addressing & I don’t buy blaming these two for that.

[REDOXO]

1 hour ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

But everyone loves Tanner because he made a few block tackles.

We should never have expected him to be able to step up to this level so soon.

Likewise Vyner has never looked confident and I’ve no idea where the player who wore JD’s shirt last season has gone?

But against all this, the midfield offer no cover - inc HNM who has been part of this mess for too long as well.

YES, he has! The constant bigging up of this boy gets right up my nose. If he is anywhere near the team from the start or as a sub we will concede goals. He looks good with some aspects of his play but he is part of the problem not the solution....I know this is an unpopular view and I'm not picking on him anymore than the other crap we have in there but he is a youngster playing in a crap midfield that will provide little in a battle....

[Super]

Agree to a point but they are as guilty as the rest for giving the ball away time after time. Until we get people in who can keep and pass the ball we will concede goals.

[Mr Popodopolous]

On 06/11/2021 at 18:53, Super said:

Agree to a point but they are as guilty as the rest for giving the ball away time after time. Until we get people in who can keep and pass the ball we will concede goals.

I think if all were fit and if we played in a certain way we would improve in that area...James after all was one of Coventry's- yes that Coventry- better midfielders last season, they seem quite good in possession don't they even with him gone- Massengo, James and Williams in a 3, King first reserve and Bakinson can fill in- the latter being quite good with the ball, not so much without it seems a reasonable CM foundation- when all fit.

Certainly the first choice bit, Massengo, James, Williams CM 3.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[MattWSM]

Where was Atkinson yesterday, injured? 

[JamesBCFC]

On 06/11/2021 at 18:17, JoeAman08 said:

They have 12 goals between them in a combined 34 games. A combined over 3000 minutes. A whopping goal every 250 minutes(weimann 1 every 218 minutes and Martin 1 every 296). So are we saying that is good enough? 
 

Our forwards are absolutely shambolic. The ball regularly doesn’t stick to either of them near enough and our defence under constant pressure because of it. Midfield and defence constantly looking up and seeing no movement doesn’t really breed confidence. The entire team could be better but until we give the back 4 and keeper some hope up top our problems will continue
 

 

Weimanns numbers aren't far off a goal every 2nd game in pure minutes, that's plenty good enough.

Even Martins are a 1 in 3 using your numbers, thats 15 a season and 20+ a season for the two, on you numbers.

That's not bad at all, but if we're conceding so many it doesn't matter if you have Abraham and Kodjia up front, we won't get the points until we keep the ball out our own net.