An opportunity for Curtis Fleming to shine

[054123]

2 hours ago, Northern Red said:

Is he a good human?

Just waiting on the DNA results

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, marmite said:

Was he the man that picked the team and made the substitutions on Saturday? If Nige has been unwell for a while is it Flemming who has been running this side lately?

If yes to both or either of these questions, then it's a big no from me.

He certainly didn’t pick the side, Pearson has done so for all the games he hasn’t been able to attend, I have no idea re the substitutions.

1 hour ago, 1960maaan said:

Where did he say this, I saw one clip where he moan about the team going in on them selves, but not him instructing them to sit in.

In his interview afterwards (when clearly pissed off) he said this, but many have taken it to mean that we are a goal up & a man up, so don’t let them back in the game.
Either way it wasn’t very well articulated.

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, maxjak said:

Well his audition against 10 men.......on Saturday didn't go so well?  So I am not holding out much hope for when he's confronted with 11?

How about Peterborough?

2 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

Where did he say this, I saw one clip where he moan about the team going in on them selves, but not him instructing them to sit in.

I see GC has answered….like Graham I think it was the wrong choice of words.  If it genuinely was “shut up shop” the players did a poor imitation of it.

1 hour ago, LoyalRed said:

Ex-Republic of Ireland full-back....wonder if he was Chris Hughton's understudy for RoE.  Looks like he was playing for the under 21's at the time CH was playing for the full team.

There’s a great interview in one of the Fleming threads where he talks about his childhood, his playing career, always being on standby for ROI squads and getting called up due to injuries, cancelling holidays etc.  he’s a proper football man, comes across really well every time I’ve listened to him.

Can he step-up?  No idea.

[Top Robin]

2 hours ago, Sarumred said:

I think I heard it said prior to last Saturday's match that NP picked the team. I guess CF was responsible for the substitutions.

If Pearson isn't well and isn't involved with the players at the moment, there is no way he should be picking the team - in fact he should sever all links with us until he is better and back to work.

[1960maaan]

46 minutes ago, Top Robin said:

If Pearson isn't well and isn't involved with the players at the moment, there is no way he should be picking the team - in fact he should sever all links with us until he is better and back to work.

Extremely harsh as this may be, I think you're right.
Pearson picked teams with how well players did in training, he can't judge that now and it's made worse by using someone else's evaluation . The subs Saturday felt like recent subs, I thought we lost what little impetus we had, and the Subs with under 10 minutes to go feel pointless or pre planned, not sure which is worse.

Rare an assistant, put in temporary charge, will do anything different. About now we could probably do with something different. It's one thing if we were playing ok and just needed overseeing, maybe that would work from distance. We are far from that, we need proper looking after.

[maxjak]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

How about Peterborough?

I see GC has answered….like Graham I think it was the wrong choice of words.  If it genuinely was “shut up shop” the players did a poor imitation of it.

There’s a great interview in one of the Fleming threads where he talks about his childhood, his playing career, always being on standby for ROI squads and getting called up due to injuries, cancelling holidays etc.  he’s a proper football man, comes across really well every time I’ve listened to him.

Can he step-up?  No idea.

What about Peterborough?   Come on daveFevs you are clutching at straws?    Nothing excuses the tactics and substitutions he employed at Coventry, he was completely out of his depth..........they were pathetic and contemptible IMHO   PS Dean Holden was also a wonderful human and a proper football man?  So were Bobby Charlton, Nobby Stiles, Alan Ball, Ossie Ardiles......need I go on?

Edited November 9, 2021 by maxjak

[Red dog]

If Curtis Flemming was the man making the substitutions at Coventry i would have my reservations - bringing on Dasilva when we need to slow the game down and find the extra man is very questionable  when you have Kasey Palmer 

The game at Milwall again a few weeks ago was exactly the same no energy and leadership 

 

[Red-Robbo]

13 minutes ago, maxjak said:

What about Peterborough?   Come on daveFevs you are clutching at straws?    Nothing excuses the tactics and substitutions he employed at Coventry, he was completely out of his depth..........they were pathetic and contemptible IMHO   PS Dean Holden was also a wonderful human and a proper football man?  So were Bobby Charlton, Nobby Stiles, Alan Ball, Ossie Ardiles......need I go on?

'.... Russell Osman...

[Davefevs]

24 minutes ago, maxjak said:

What about Peterborough?   Come on daveFevs you are clutching at straws?    Nothing excuses the tactics and substitutions he employed at Coventry, he was completely out of his depth..........they were pathetic and contemptible IMHO   PS Dean Holden was also a wonderful human and a proper football man?  So were Bobby Charlton, Nobby Stiles, Alan Ball, Ossie Ardiles......need I go on?

Just saying he win that game, made a good sub of O’Dowda for Scott.  I’m just not gonna judge on one game, where we don’t even know who was leading who?

[old_eastender]

6 hours ago, Rob k said:

I’ve liked what I’ve heard from him but we can all talk a good game i suppose. He was clearly as pissed off as the fans Saturday too, said a few home truths had been said in the dressing room. 

Shame he made such cr@p substitutions then, including not noticing COD had 'disappeared' for the entire 2nd half. If his game management at Coventry was anything to go by, he won't do us any good at all.

[steviestevieneville]

26 minutes ago, Red dog said:

If Curtis Flemming was the man making the substitutions at Coventry i would have my reservations - bringing on Dasilva when we need to slow the game down and find the extra man is very questionable  when you have Kasey Palmer 

The game at Milwall again a few weeks ago was exactly the same no energy and leadership 

 

Thought dasilva was the right decision. Against ten men we needed to move the ball quickly & stretch the pitch to tire them out. I think that was the idea but the players didn’t do it. Bringing  Palmer on would of condensed the pitch playing into their hands imo . Which we did anyway

[Merrick's Marvels]

Lose the next 2 or 3 and he's toast, along with Pearson. 

This poor form, along with the uncertainty surrounding the manager, can't be allowed to drift along. 

It appears no-one at the club wants to take decisive action but results on the pitch might force their hand.  

[Northern Red]

I'm struggling to think of a manager who's never made a bad substitution.

[Davefevs]

@JonDolmanwhy do you think O’Dowda was the polar opposite of his really encouraging first half performance.  I’ve often made comments like like he was decent one half but not the other, typically the first and then quieter second….thinking last season - Bournemouth (a), Wycombe (h) or was it Portsmouth in the cup too?  For me QPR (a) was the only game I can recall instantlyfrom memory where it was the other way around, poor first half, really good second half.

Is it a mental thing, e.g. rests on his laurels, thinks he’s fine enough?

I seriously cannot comprehend how he went missing against 10 men?  What am I missing?  Help!

 

[Red-Robbo]

57 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@JonDolmanwhy do you think O’Dowda was the polar opposite of his really encouraging first half performance.  I’ve often made comments like like he was decent one half but not the other, typically the first and then quieter second….thinking last season - Bournemouth (a), Wycombe (h) or was it Portsmouth in the cup too?  For me QPR (a) was the only game I can recall instantlyfrom memory where it was the other way around, poor first half, really good second half.

Is it a mental thing, e.g. rests on his laurels, thinks he’s fine enough?

I seriously cannot comprehend how he went missing against 10 men?  What am I missing?  Help!

 

 

I've noticed the same. He's a 45 minute player.

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

An annoying thing with us in general, O'Dowda, Weimann and Massengo, they all start sprinting up the pitch when we have the ball. Can't we just knock it about a bit. I don't really notice Coventry or other teams players constantly running away from the ball carrier up the pitch.

This
 

8 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

remember Matty James saying post match Swansea that we don't have to score every time we attack.

I’ve posted similar a lot recently.  Too keen to do the killer move (mainly killer pass).  Combo of poor decision making and laziness / lack of taking responsibility.  A killer pass might get an ooh or an ahh from the crowd, but it ultimately turns over possession.

The other thing is it leaves you open to being caught in transition.  Watching basketball, it’s amazing how a steal and then breakaway ends up in you conceding points, which sounds backwards.  Essentially you break away in a disorganised fashion (Basketball has lots of repeatable patterns in normal possessions), lose the ball and get countered on.  It’s not quite the same in football, but I think under LJ and a bit of late we are played disorganised counter-attacking football, relying on a bit of quality to create chances….not through organised build ups.  In fairness we did a few good moves v Forest (h) first half.  So we end up trying to be too “fancy”, too “killer”, and then we have no shape.  That can happen anywhere, because we too keen to attack.  I’m a great believer in establishing clear possession and shape before attacking.  That’s not to say it’s slow and allows everyone in the opposition team to get behind the ball, just recognising the right time to go.  That might be direct(ish), might be short, sharp passes.  Early season we saw King and James knowing when to advance or not, King doing it very quietly and efficiently too.

Lots of other little issues too, but we want to make it a frenzy too often….and too often in the wrong part of the pitch.
 

(Thanks for reply too)

[TedsHeadIs Red]

2 hours ago, Northern Red said:

I'm struggling to think of a manager who's never made a bad substitution.

To be critical of the way a substitution turned out you have to be a professor of hindsight 

[Clutton Caveman]

11 hours ago, GrahamC said:

It is almost a fortnight until we play again so I’m hoping we will have more clarity on Pearson’s situation by then.

He is apparently taking this week off & so next week is key.

However if Fleming is then in charge for the 2 upcoming home games I do hope he does it “his way” rather than deferring to someone who is not well enough to be there in person.

CF has been with us long enough to have seen enough of the players & has a reasonable CV as a coach, I genuinely don’t know how he will get on, but he should back himself to make the calls, such as how we set up & substitutions.

NP must be fully in charge or fully resting. To have Fleming in charge but doing NP's bidding will be a disaster

[DT The Optimist]

May well have been done before but interesting coaching career. I wonder what sort of standard Punjab FC are….I have not dared to look.
 

 He was head hunter by Ian  Hollowhead  to be his assistant when he was the manager at QPR. 

I dread to think how all this is going to pan out if NP fails to return in near future, simply too many what ifs and  buts and different scenarios to call this. 
 

considering literally only just arrived, cannot see him taking reins to long if NP packs it in and or little chance return near future. 
 

Below is from wiki. 
 

 

Personal informationDate of birth8 October 1968 (age 53)Place of birthManchester, EnglandHeight5 ft 10 in (1.78 m)Position(s)Right-backClub information

Current team

Bristol City (assistant manager)Youth careerBelvedereSenior career*YearsTeamApps(Gls)1987–1989St Patrick's Athletic60(2)1989Swindon Town0(0)1989–1991St Patrick's Athletic62(2)1991–2001Middlesbrough266(3)2001→ Birmingham City (loan)6(0)2001–2004Crystal Palace45(0)2004–2005Darlington27(0)2005Shelbourne10(0)2006–2007Billingham Synthonia26(0)Total411+(5+)National team1989–1990Republic of Ireland U232(0)1989–1990Republic of Ireland U215(0)1996–1998Republic of Ireland10(0)Teams managed2007–2008Livingston (assistant)2012Crystal Palace (assistant)2012Crystal Palace (caretaker)2012–2014Bolton Wanderers (first team coach)2016Hartlepool United (assistant)2016–2018Queens Park Rangers (assistant)2018–2019Middlesbrough (first team coach)2019–2020Punjab FC (reserve)2020–2021Punjab FC2021Bristol City (first team coach)* Senior club appearances and goals counted for the domestic league only

[Red-Robbo]

27 minutes ago, DT The Optimist said:

May well have been done before but interesting coaching career. I wonder what sort of standard Punjab FC are….I have not dared to look.
 

 He was head hunter by Ian  Hollowhead  to be his assistant when he was the manager at QPR. 

I dread to think how all this is going to pan out if NP fails to return in near future, simply too many what ifs and  buts and different scenarios to call this. 
 

considering literally only just arrived, cannot see him taking reins to long if NP packs it in and or little chance return near future. 
 

Below is from wiki. 
 

 

Personal informationDate of birth8 October 1968 (age 53)Place of birthManchester, EnglandHeight5 ft 10 in (1.78 m)Position(s)Right-backClub information

Current team

Bristol City (assistant manager)Youth careerBelvedereSenior career*YearsTeamApps(Gls)1987–1989St Patrick's Athletic60(2)1989Swindon Town0(0)1989–1991St Patrick's Athletic62(2)1991–2001Middlesbrough266(3)2001→ Birmingham City (loan)6(0)2001–2004Crystal Palace45(0)2004–2005Darlington27(0)2005Shelbourne10(0)2006–2007Billingham Synthonia26(0)Total411+(5+)National team1989–1990Republic of Ireland U232(0)1989–1990Republic of Ireland U215(0)1996–1998Republic of Ireland10(0)Teams managed2007–2008Livingston (assistant)2012Crystal Palace (assistant)2012Crystal Palace (caretaker)2012–2014Bolton Wanderers (first team coach)2016Hartlepool United (assistant)2016–2018Queens Park Rangers (assistant)2018–2019Middlesbrough (first team coach)2019–2020Punjab FC (reserve)2020–2021Punjab FC2021Bristol City (first team coach)* Senior club appearances and goals counted for the domestic league only

 

Hmm, his only game in charge of a first team as a solo caretaker manager seems to have been in 2012 when he was at Palace. They won, but considering they were already third at the time in the Championship, the challenges might be slightly less than those posed by Bristol City's players. 

[old_eastender]

1 hour ago, TedsHeadIs Red said:

To be critical of the way a substitution turned out you have to be a professor of hindsight 

No, you really don't. COD had completely disappeared 2nd half and we had the perfect replacement on the bench for him in Benarous (possibly the most talented young player we have) someone who would have occupied the opposition and taken the game to them. Fleming didn't use him. We have Scott done in and needs replacing, we badly need another body in midfield, so Fleming brings on a left back who is bang out of form and moves Pring (who'd been doing ok at LB), to left flank, rather than using Palmer (who whatever you think of him, can pass the ball to a team mate more often than not). Then to cap it off, he takes Pring off, whose been ineffective on left flank since the unnecessary use of Dasilva and bring Wells on. What the heck he was thinking of I have no idea, no hindsight required!

 

 

[mozo]

11 hours ago, Davefevs said:

This
 

I’ve posted similar a lot recently.  Too keen to do the killer move (mainly killer pass).  Combo of poor decision making and laziness / lack of taking responsibility.  A killer pass might get an ooh or an ahh from the crowd, but it ultimately turns over possession.

The other thing is it leaves you open to being caught in transition.  Watching basketball, it’s amazing how a steal and then breakaway ends up in you conceding points, which sounds backwards.  Essentially you break away in a disorganised fashion (Basketball has lots of repeatable patterns in normal possessions), lose the ball and get countered on.  It’s not quite the same in football, but I think under LJ and a bit of late we are played disorganised counter-attacking football, relying on a bit of quality to create chances….not through organised build ups.  In fairness we did a few good moves v Forest (h) first half.  So we end up trying to be too “fancy”, too “killer”, and then we have no shape.  That can happen anywhere, because we too keen to attack.  I’m a great believer in establishing clear possession and shape before attacking.  That’s not to say it’s slow and allows everyone in the opposition team to get behind the ball, just recognising the right time to go.  That might be direct(ish), might be short, sharp passes.  Early season we saw King and James knowing when to advance or not, King doing it very quietly and efficiently too.

Lots of other little issues too, but we want to make it a frenzy too often….and too often in the wrong part of the pitch.
 

(Thanks for reply too)

I read that and couldn't help but think of Weimann. I'm very happy with his goal return this season, but 'frenzied' has always been his MO. I agree that we need to be more savvy.

[Northern Red]

10 hours ago, old_eastender said:

No, you really don't. COD had completely disappeared 2nd half and we had the perfect replacement on the bench for him in Benarous (possibly the most talented young player we have) someone who would have occupied the opposition and taken the game to them. Fleming didn't use him. We have Scott done in and needs replacing, we badly need another body in midfield, so Fleming brings on a left back who is bang out of form and moves Pring (who'd been doing ok at LB), to left flank, rather than using Palmer (who whatever you think of him, can pass the ball to a team mate more often than not). Then to cap it off, he takes Pring off, whose been ineffective on left flank since the unnecessary use of Dasilva and bring Wells on. What the heck he was thinking of I have no idea, no hindsight required!

 

 

If you're writing managers off on the basis of a bad substitution then no manager will ever be suitable.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, mozo said:

I read that and couldn't help but think of Weimann. I'm very happy with his goal return this season, but 'frenzied' has always been his MO. I agree that we need to be more savvy.

If you take the frenzy bit out, then I think of Palmer….lots of killer passes too early in the phase of possession.

[mozo]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

If you take the frenzy bit out, then I think of Palmer….lots of killer passes too early in the phase of possession.

Yeah, surely Palmer was well-schooled at Chelsea? His footballing common sense doesn't seem to be there  

He's not alone in our squad mind.