Ranking City Managers

[054123]

Here’s something I found on Twitter.

Just a fun discussion in the absence of anything city related going on (well ‘legally’ of course!).

[CheddarReds]

How is Cotts only a 7/10 ?!?!

[Rebounder]

How can they rate John Ward as rubbish, but Wilson as good? One got us up and the other continually ****** up. Don't get me wrong Ward had his faults I'm sure, and I'm a bit young to fully remember, but it seems off to me. 

[ralphindevon]

I’ll mark Terry Cooper for you, 9/10 . 
Manager, player, director, ticket seller, groundsman, top bloke, legend. 

[Warwickshire Red]

Cotts should be 8

Would give GJ an 8/8.25 as we got so close. 
LJ a 6.

Ward got us promoted so 2 is laughable - a 7.

Cooper has to be a 9 for what he did for us including promotion and first Wembley trophy

Edited November 12, 2021 by Warwickshire Red

[Red-Robbo]

Bit unfair on Denis Smith as well. I think lots of his efforts were undermined by the board.

[Bat Fastard]

Alan Dicks - was a brilliant manager and bought the magnificent John Galley!

[054123]

8 minutes ago, CheddarReds said:

How is Cotts only a 7/10 ?!?!

:laugh:, how is John Ward an awful appointment?

The 97/98 season was as much fun as 14/15.

I know we didn’t win the league but it was ace.

[054123]

4 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Bit unfair on Denis Smith as well. I think lots of his efforts were undermined by the board.

Completely agree.

Its amazing how as a club, for every time we point to a poor spell over the last 40 years, I can also show you an inept, scared bored.

 

[redsquirrel]

benny ,coppell and pulis are the lowest for me. Sod got us jet so he gets an extra point for that. cotts and gj 9s, both brought lasting good times,i mean a seasons worth. millen was good too but shouldnt have risked the full managers job. pearson can have a 9 too,points deducted as time goes by if we dont pick up. why? because i like him

[TV Tom]

Haha, how the hell has Pearson got 6, right up there with Osman with some of the worse football ever seen at AG

[1960maaan]

13 minutes ago, ralphindevon said:

I’ll mark Terry Cooper for you, 9/10 . 
Manager, player, director, ticket seller, groundsman, top bloke, legend. 

Question , how have you marked him down? The only possible mark against him can be that he was with the Squatters for a spell. Even then he was so bad for them he was cheering City fans up.

4 minutes ago, TomF said:

Danny Wilson and Gary Johnson given the same rating. 

Osman - I thought we played some good football? 

What

The

****.

Stop the world I want to get off. 

I can only assume either

1). You drank a hell of a lot during his time.

2). You were very young and couldn't see over the fence to watch properly.

3). He has incriminating photos of you.

Things I remember from his time.
That away match at WHU where he must have banned us from playing in their half.
That we went into most games hoping for a 0-0.
That he was the only City player I've known who the crowd shouted off, off, off, when he was getting a booking.
That he was the only player who when they realised it was him who scored, stopped cheering.
Hated him time in charge.

[AshtonGreat]

3 minutes ago, harrys said:

Haha, how the hell has Pearson got 6, right up there with Osman with some of the worse football ever seen at AG

Agreed. Putting Pearson level with Gary Johnson and Steve Cotterill is absurd. Also, why does Pearson get two points more than Holden? 

[chinapig]

9 minutes ago, TomF said:

Danny Wilson and Gary Johnson given the same rating. 

Osman - I thought we played some good football? 

What

The

****.

Stop the world I want to get off. 

Indeed, the same Danny Wilson who spent a fortune by third division standards (think what the equivalent of the £600k we paid for Lee Peacock would be today for instance) and failed compared to Gary Johnson, who got promoted on a relative shoestring.

Quite apart from the culture Wilson allowed that is.

Though I can think of one forum member who would disagree.

[Kid in the Riot]

And only Tony Pulis from that list went onto bigger & better things as a manager. 

[ExiledAjax]

27 managers in my lifetime (ok, some are interim). Blimey.

33 minutes ago, CheddarReds said:

How is Cotts only a 7/10 ?!?!

Wins a double. Could do better mate.

[Red-Robbo]

3 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

And only Tony Pulis from that list went onto bigger & better things as a manager. 

 

Benny's Viking FK team won the Norwegian Cup and knocked Chelsea and Sporting Lisbon out the Uefa Cup; McInnes has been successful with Aberdeen.

In English football, you're dead right.  

[richwwtk]

John Ward definitely deserves more, he built a team you could really get behind. Strangely, I also really liked Benny, the season that JW was sacked and he took over was still one of my favourite ever seasons, despite the relegation at the end of it. I think the game that relegation was confirmed was a 1-1 draw away at somewhere like Norwich, and the support from the fans was fantastic.

[Tinmans Love Child]

3 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Indeed, the same Danny Wilson who spent a fortune by third division standards (think what the equivalent of the £600k we paid for Lee Peacock would be today for instance) and failed compared to Gary Johnson, who got promoted on a relative shoestring.

Quite apart from the culture Wilson allowed that is.

Though I can think of one forum member who would disagree.

But for me as a fan I enjoyed the Danny Wilson years, football was entertaining, some legendary City players in that era too, great times even if we never got over that playoff finish line.

For what it’s worth, my top 5 managers since supporting city from 1990 are:

1) GJ

2) Joe Jordan

3) SC

4) John Ward

5) Danny Wilson

 

Worst 5 managers:

1) Steve Coppell

2) Tony Pulis

3) Big Fat Benny

4) Tinnion (sorry Brian!)

5) SOD (the football was awful but he did lay some ground work for SC)

Crazy that Pulis and Coppell were successful at the top level elsewhere but couldn’t do it here.

[Mendip City]

7 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

Agreed. Putting Pearson level with Gary Johnson and Steve Cotterill is absurd. Also, why does Pearson get two points more than Holden? 

I got as far as the Johnsons…. The one with a promotion and play-off appearance scoring lower than the one with successive mid-upper-mid table finishes (and had full access to Steve’s wallet!). What nonsense! 
 

Also agree, I can’t think of any measure of his City performance that, at present, puts Pearson ahead of Holden. 

[ralphindevon]

14 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Question , how have you marked him down? The only possible mark against him can be that he was with the Squatters for a spell. Even then he was so bad for them he was cheering City fans up.

I can only assume either

1). You drank a hell of a lot during his time.

2). You were very young and couldn't see over the fence to watch properly.

3). He has incriminating photos of you.

I'm very happy to award him 10 but thought someone would pipe up that a 10 should only be given for perfection. 

What if he'd done even better at the end and Jo Jordan hadn't been able to take over because Terry couldn't stop winning? 

[Greedo]

Could do worse than bringing im Joe Jordan in some capacity right now. 

[Super]

Ward the same as Pulis?!

[GrahamC]

58 minutes ago, Rebounder said:

How can they rate John Ward as rubbish, but Wilson as good? One got us up and the other continually ****** up. Don't get me wrong Ward had his faults I'm sure, and I'm a bit young to fully remember, but it seems off to me. 

Absolutely, just ridiculous.

I get it is subjective but Gary Johnson 6? He got us promoted in his first full season & in the playoff final the year after, at least an 8.

[beaverface]

Joe Jordan's 2nd spell also laid the foundations of the team that John Ward got promoted with, so I'd mark him a little higher.

[TonyTonyTony]

Highly subjective this, but to give the manager who bought Andy Cole in a 3 out of 10 is bizarre.

[Mendip City]

1 minute ago, GrahamC said:

Absolutely, just ridiculous.

I get it is subjective but Gary Johnson 6? He got us promoted in his first full season & in the playoff final the year after, at least an 8.

Agree about GJ (as above). 
John Ward seems to get increasingly underrated by City fans. Ge was, ultimately, undermined by the board… he got us promoted playing good football and, it’s not really relevant to this debate, he is a really good bloke. 

[GrahamC]

9 minutes ago, Greedo said:

Could do worse than bringing im Joe Jordan in some capacity right now. 

People say this a lot & I loved Joe’s first spell, but that was over 30 years ago now, so apart from the fact that he still lives in BS8, what exactly are people basing this on?

I have seen Director of Football, even Chairman suggested yesterday, 2 posts that he has never held anywhere in his life.

Gary Johnson lives in Portishead & actually got us nearest to The Prem, so why not him then?

It just seems like an exercise in nostalgia to me & that’s as someone who has a lot of time for his first spell (the second one was pretty crap though).

[GrahamC]

5 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Highly subjective this, but to give the manager who bought Andy Cole in a 3 out of 10 is bizarre.

Just to argue that point he did also swap the absolutely dog shit centre half Dave Thompson for the excellent Andy May, sign Brian Mitchell (the go to awful RB prior to Nicky Hunt) & a lad from Glasgow Rangers (Sean Rouse) who ended up playing for Weston-Super-Mare a year later.

Plus of course the disaster that was Ray Atteveld..

[054123]

2 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Just to argue that point he did also swap the absolutely dog shit centre half Dave Thompson for the excellent Andy May, sign Brian Mitchell (the go to awful RB prior to Nicky Hunt) & a lad from Glasgow Rangers (Sean Rouse) who ended up playing for Weston-Super-Mare a year later.

Plus of course the disaster that was Ray Atteveld..

One man’s dog shit……

[GrahamC]

1 minute ago, 054123 said:

One man’s dog shit……

He was really bad, remember the Anglo Italian game at AG he got sent off, plus the avalanche of goals we let in whenever he & Mitchell played.

Awful players.

[Red-Robbo]

2 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

He was really bad, remember the Anglo Italian game at AG he got sent off, plus the avalanche of goals we let in whenever he & Mitchell played.

Awful players.

 

There was a guy in Dolman Block B who must've had the loudest voice in Bristol.

I can remember during one particularly poor display he boomed out "Mitchell, you're a cabbage!" so loud that it echoed around the Gate and caused a few smiles on the pitch.

[Lrrr]

1 hour ago, CheddarReds said:

How is Cotts only a 7/10 ?!?!

Just trying to talk about balance, while 14/15 was incredible we had a squad that should have won that division but in addition to winning it the football was great. However this is probably balanced out by Cotts then more than likely getting us relegated before he was sacked. 14/15 was a 10/10, how much do you take of for 15/16?

All a game of opinions

[Red Exile]

I was more surprised at the use of the word 'fickle'. Do they even know what it means? To have stuck it through so much dross is the very opposite of 'fickle'!

As for being careful what you wish for...on the basis of those ratings it was perfectly legitimate to have wished for better at many points in the past 40 years!

We've had some decent managers, Terry Cooper, Joe Jordan, Denis Smith, John Ward, Danny Wilson, GJ, Cotts. The problem has been that with the exception of the Cooper-Jordan handover almost every successful manager has been followed by an appointment that's undone much of the good work. We're living through just such a period now. 

Our fan base has been far from 'fickle'!

Edited November 12, 2021 by Red Exile

[GrahamC]

28 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

There was a guy in Dolman Block B who must've had the loudest voice in Bristol.

I can remember during one particularly poor display he boomed out "Mitchell, you're a cabbage!" so loud that it echoed around the Gate and caused a few smiles on the pitch.

I’ll never forget the infamous 4-3 win at Derby, when Mitchell was supposedly “marking” Paul Simpson, our recently departed coach & in his day a very decent left winger.

Prior to Steve Sutton having a brain fart & wrestling Shelts to the ground for not only a penalty but also a clear red card, we were 3-1 down & Simpson had scored all 3 of them.

For some of that time Mitchell didn’t even appear to be in Derbyshire, let alone in Simpson’s vicinity.

[Midlands Robin]

I know others have already posted this but it's worth saying again, to rate John Ward as a 2 and describe him as another awful appointment must be some sort of joke surely?

Ward took over a misfiring team from Super Joe and took us into the play offs in his first season here and then promotion in the second. We would have won the title had the club managed to hold on to Shaun Goater. 

In 98-99 he had some rotten luck and several injuries plus as things were starting to turn around, he never got the help he was after so walked away.

Ward is definitely not a 2/10.

[Simon bristol]

2 hours ago, AshtonGreat said:

Agreed. Putting Pearson level with Gary Johnson and Steve Cotterill is absurd. Also, why does Pearson get two points more than Holden? 

I wish he has got 2 more points than holden!

[AppyDAZE]

48 minutes ago, Midlands Robin said:

I know others have already posted this but it's worth saying again, to rate John Ward as a 2 and describe him as another awful appointment must be some sort of joke surely?

Ward took over a misfiring team from Super Joe and took us into the play offs in his first season here and then promotion in the second. We would have won the title had the club managed to hold on to Shaun Goater. 

In 98-99 he had some rotten luck and several injuries plus as things were starting to turn around, he never got the help he was after so walked away.

Ward is definitely not a 2/10.

I've not seen this list of ratings, but to be honest, if Wardy only get a 2/10, it's obviously a wind-up or written by a total fool.

[pongo88]

3 hours ago, ralphindevon said:

I’ll mark Terry Cooper for you, 9/10 . 
Manager, player, director, ticket seller, groundsman, top bloke, legend. 

You forgot furniture removal man for Alan Walsh. 

[ralphindevon]

11 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

You forgot furniture removal man for Alan Walsh. 

Ha! The list goes on.

[Midlands Robin]

7 minutes ago, TomF said:

Slightly incorrect - 2-0 down (2 goals in 2 mins) followed by Sutton's madness just before half time. We were getting absolutely battered up to that point.  Bent had one chalked offside for one of the worst offsides ever (I think..) before he finally got one, The two more goals in two minutes to make it 3-3 before the Chief headed home the winner from a corner.  Some god awful commentary that day:

 

This game was live on ITV wasn't it?

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

3 hours ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

But for me as a fan I enjoyed the Danny Wilson years, football was entertaining, some legendary City players in that era too, great times even if we never got over that playoff finish line.

For what it’s worth, my top 5 managers since supporting city from 1990 are:

1) GJ

2) Joe Jordan

3) SC

4) John Ward

5) Danny Wilson

 

Worst 5 managers:

1) Steve Coppell

2) Tony Pulis

3) Big Fat Benny

4) Tinnion (sorry Brian!)

5) SOD (the football was awful but he did lay some ground work for SC)

Crazy that Pulis and Coppell were successful at the top level elsewhere but couldn’t do it here.

Never fails to amaze me how City fans can rate Danny Wilson so highly.  Four years with a very strong squad and he failed to get us promotion.  Appalling.

Perhaps judgement on Pearson should be reserved, but as things stand then he must rate in the bottom three.

[johnheadbcfc]

Gary Johnson made us all believe! 

I think people forget the football we played in the playoff year. 

[chinapig]

1 minute ago, johnheadbcfc said:

Gary Johnson made us all believe! 

I think people forget the football we played in the playoff year. 

Football for which we got a lot of praise in the media at the time in fact, though there are those with an agenda who seem to have forgotten.

[cidercity1987]

Wilson and GJ the same rating. FML was this a Robbored tweet

[The Journalist]

Remember when one of our fans actually thought the manager who took us closer to the top flight than any other man in the past 40 years did just as good a job as the manager currently boasting one of the worst records of any Bristol City manager in the past 40 years?

[cidercity1987]

FWIW 

Wilson 6 good football, achieved nothing

Tinnion 5 City through and through, unlucky Tins

Johnson 9 what's there to complain about promotion, 4th, 10th, 10th

Coppell 1 Weirdo

Millen 6 Underrated, 15th with that squad was fine.

Mciness 5 had potential, didn't deliver.

SOD 4 not a city man in that he didn't understand us but laid the groundwork.

Cotterell 8 Great manager, tainted by poor start to the Champ, shouldn't have been sacked

Johnson 7 Unbelievable memories of 2017/18, 2nd highest place finish in what 40 odd years. Spent a bit. Think some of his bad points can be attributed to Ashton

Holden 5 Not for me , not terrible but we were on a terrible spiral

Pearson 5 done nothing yet, history will tell, don't want him out but all to do

 

 

[alexukhc]

Whatabout old Jimmy Lumsden?

[YorksRed]

Harsh on Denis Smith.  Not harsh enough on Osman and Pullis.  
 

Terry Cooper the top of the list for me.   As well as everything he did for the club, his team played good football too.

[Sir Geoff]

Tin hat time (and I am no fan) but statistically LJ is amongst our top 5 managers of all time, possibly top 3, bearing in mind all his games were in the 2nd tier of English football. His win rate puts him comfortably in the top 6. His final league positions would put him in 3rd or 4th.

Bristol City - Clubs - Manager Stats

 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Sir Geoff
Extra text

[Bar BS3]

6 hours ago, 054123 said:

Here’s something I found on Twitter.

Just a fun discussion in the absence of anything city related going on (well ‘legally’ of course!).

Didn't John ward get us promoted from level 3 to level 2..? Then failed to be good enough for level 2...?

 

Remeniscent of Steve Cotteril yet one was "an awful appointment" and the other was highlighted as one of our best...? 

Also, all the other comparisons above show how way off the mark this post was in do many ways, about so many managers. 

[gary s]

I have been watching city since the 70's as I recall not one of our managers has been approached by another club, all have been sacked !!!!!

[RobintheRed Red]

3 hours ago, cidercity1987 said:

FWIW 

Wilson 6 good football, achieved nothing

Tinnion 5 City through and through, unlucky Tins

Johnson 9 what's there to complain about promotion, 4th, 10th, 10th

Coppell 1 Weirdo

Millen 6 Underrated, 15th with that squad was fine.

Mciness 5 had potential, didn't deliver.

SOD 4 not a city man in that he didn't understand us but laid the groundwork.

Cotterell 8 Great manager, tainted by poor start to the Champ, shouldn't have been sacked

Johnson 7 Unbelievable memories of 2017/18, 2nd highest place finish in what 40 odd years. Spent a bit. Think some of his bad points can be attributed to Ashton

Holden 5 Not for me , not terrible but we were on a terrible spiral

Pearson 5 done nothing yet, history will tell, don't want him out but all to do

 

 

Pretty good assesment .

[Mendip City]

10 minutes ago, gary s said:

I have been watching city since the 70's as I recall not one of our managers has been approached by another club, all have been sacked !!!!!

I was about to agree with you…. But then…. My memory is messing with me but didn’t Pulis go to Portsmouth and not actually get sacked? 
regardless - your point stands, I don’t even remember any rumours. For all the chat about LJ no one ever came in for him. 

[Mendip City]

3 hours ago, cidercity1987 said:

FWIW 

Wilson 6 good football, achieved nothing

Tinnion 5 City through and through, unlucky Tins

Johnson 9 what's there to complain about promotion, 4th, 10th, 10th

Coppell 1 Weirdo

Millen 6 Underrated, 15th with that squad was fine.

Mciness 5 had potential, didn't deliver.

SOD 4 not a city man in that he didn't understand us but laid the groundwork.

Cotterell 8 Great manager, tainted by poor start to the Champ, shouldn't have been sacked

Johnson 7 Unbelievable memories of 2017/18, 2nd highest place finish in what 40 odd years. Spent a bit. Think some of his bad points can be attributed to Ashton

Holden 5 Not for me , not terrible but we were on a terrible spiral

Pearson 5 done nothing yet, history will tell, don't want him out but all to do

 

 

Agree with all the comments. I’d knock Pearson down to 4. Big job and illness but still the record is shocking. 

[East Londoner]

2 hours ago, YorksRed said:

Harsh on Denis Smith.  Not harsh enough on Osman and Pullis.  
 

Terry Cooper the top of the list for me.   As well as everything he did for the club, his team played good football too.

Osman did have no money to spend and we did beat Liverpool under him so does need to be put in context 

Edited November 12, 2021 by East Londoner
Can’t spell

[AppyDAZE]

Not saying he was amazing, but Wilson did win a trophy and did not "achieve nothing"

 

Edited November 12, 2021 by AppyDAZE

[Midlands Robin]

Tweeted with the original poster of the ratings list on twitter to tell him his opinion of Ward was way off base. His response was that he didn't see any of the 97/98 season because it was around the time his first child was born. 

He's only based his opinions on what he's seen. 

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, gary s said:

I have been watching city since the 70's as I recall not one of our managers has been approached by another club, all have been sacked !!!!!

Jordan first spell, joined Hearts.

Pulis joined Portsmouth.

Not true then.

[Bar BS3]

1 hour ago, gary s said:

I have been watching city since the 70's as I recall not one of our managers has been approached by another club, all have been sacked !!!!!

 

1 hour ago, Mendip City said:

I was about to agree with you…. But then…. My memory is messing with me but didn’t Pulis go to Portsmouth and not actually get sacked? 
regardless - your point stands, I don’t even remember any rumours. For all the chat about LJ no one ever came in for him. 

Yes, for some unfathomable reason, Portsmouth took Pulis and also Joe Jordan got tempted away by Hearts during his first spell. 

Otherwise, its a good point and a poor record. 

[2015]

John Ward a 2? Russell Osman's side played good football - All types of odd takes that delegitimise the rest of the takes..

[Tinmans Love Child]

19 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Never fails to amaze me how City fans can rate Danny Wilson so highly.  Four years with a very strong squad and he failed to get us promotion.  Appalling.

Perhaps judgement on Pearson should be reserved, but as things stand then he must rate in the bottom three.

I appreciate he didn’t get us promote, as mentioned in my post, but I enjoyed the football we played in his time at the club.  I’d rather we played great football and miss out than crap football and miss out!
 

NP is easily on course for one of the worst managers we’ve had in 30 years, but I hope he’s as good as I think he is and will turn it around but it’s not going to be easy!

[Tinmans Love Child]

13 hours ago, Midlands Robin said:

Tweeted with the original poster of the ratings list on twitter to tell him his opinion of Ward was way off base. His response was that he didn't see any of the 97/98 season because it was around the time his first child was born. 

He's only based his opinions on what he's seen. 

What a ridiculous response! Just don’t give him a score if that’s the reason, not a 2 and then also comment ‘another awful appointment’.  Even if he didn’t go I assume he was aware we got promoted which is quite rare in the last 30 years!  

[Murraysrightplum]

We’ve had a few rank ones

[cidered abroad]

1st equal.

AD For taking us to the top tier of English football and keeping us there for four years.

Terry Cooper for rescuing us from near oblivion and doing it with entertaining and exciting football.

2nd equal.

Pat Beasley and Steve Cotterill for winning a league championship in a style of football that City fans appreciate.

3rd equal.

Fred Ford, Joe Jordan, John Ward (*) Garry Johnson for gaining promotion from Division 3.

(*) detested Ward because I never once heard him refer to us as anything other than "This football club".

The rest of them do not count IMO. Most of them were not supported financially by the board / owners. Bottom of the list is Danny Wilson who was well funded, proved elsewhere to be good enough to get us out of Division 3, but allowed the players to be a load of alcoholics, thereby wasting all the support he had from the board.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

25 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

 

The rest of them do not count IMO. Most of them were not supported financially by the board / owners. Bottom of the list is Danny Wilson who was well funded, proved elsewhere to be good enough to get us out of Division 3, but allowed the players to be a load of alcoholics, thereby wasting all the support he had from the board.

Absolutely spot on mate.

[Midlands Robin]

It's also worth remembering that, while the football was entertaining under Danny Wilson, he had us top six once and top of the table twice at Christmas before falling away on each occasion. That's the biggest disappointment of his time in charge. 

(Well, that and not having Lita on the bench in the playoff final)

[Red-Robbo]

3 hours ago, Murraysrightplum said:

We’ve had a few rank ones

 

The odd total ranker, too. 

[The Coach]

Lee Johnson gets a 4. 5 at a push 

[Rich_s]

Crikey just goes to show how different opinions are. NP may work out but he’d only be a 2 or 3 for me. Football is a results game and I would without question have expected better. I genuinely don’t understand the support he gets from the fans but we’ve all got different opinions and I presume fellow fans are seeing something I’m not.