Who are these players?

[Numero Uno]

The inclusion of both Benarous and Scott today tells me that NP and CF have had a guts full of a few “”senior” players.

[Dottie]

On 19/11/2021 at 13:07, Northern Red said:

I must be missing something with Wells, because a lot of people have him flagged as one of the bad apples and I've genuinely not seen it.

Of course he's on high wages with minimal resale value and might be difficult to move on, but that's a different argument entirely.

Totally agree. Wells was the one doing the talking in the huddle before the Birmingham game, can’t  imagine that would have happened if either NP doesn’t want him here or he’s not interested. 

[One Team]

As others of said, very clear now who at least two of the players are NP was referring to in his press conference. Clearly they need to go.

[The Bard]

On 19/11/2021 at 22:57, Harry said:

“Who are these players” indeed. 
I find it quite sad that, probably for the first time in my near 4 decades as a fan, I don’t think I actually like or respect ANY of our players. 
Don’t know if it’s an age thing or if I’ve just been ground down by this group over the last couple of years, but I actually don’t like any of our players. None of them. 
And worse still, I don’t think a single one of them is capable of being in a team which challenges for promotion from this division. What a horrendously low base to start from. 

And to think we had such a likeable team 6 years ago  most of whom are still playing at this level.

 

[054123]

On 19/11/2021 at 22:57, Harry said:

“Who are these players” indeed. 
I find it quite sad that, probably for the first time in my near 4 decades as a fan, I don’t think I actually like or respect ANY of our players. 
Don’t know if it’s an age thing or if I’ve just been ground down by this group over the last couple of years, but I actually don’t like any of our players. None of them. 
And worse still, I don’t think a single one of them is capable of being in a team which challenges for promotion from this division. What a horrendously low base to start from. 

Hopefully Joe Williams and Alex Scott will give you a spark of hope.

Also you do have to love Benarous lobbing the blokes boot. Petulance at its finest!

[Major Isewater]

12 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I always thought Dasilva was unlikely to be a Pearson type full back. I wondered if he might try Dasilva left wing, which he did in one preseason game but not since has he started there. He came on to play there when seeing out wins but that's more as a wing back/2nd full back as we defend for our lives.

I don't know if him not making the bench means he is one Pearson is talking about. He dropped O'Dowda for a bit and people thought he was one so who knows.

If it is what people are assuming about Dasilva then I don't see why it has to be anything like he doesnt want to play for us etc. It is probably more the style of left back he is that doesnt suit Pearson's way of playing. 

A narrow back 4, or a wing back system. Either way it is a direct game we play and O'Dowda is the only left footer we have who can run up and down the line all game like we saw yesterday. Dasilva would be good there in a Swansea set up 343, where they work balls into positions by passing in triangles all over the pitch. Not so much with us when he would have to constantly be sprinting, making runs, chasing back etc.

As for Palmer, well he was always unlikely to suit a Pearson side. If we manage to offload both players in January then I will be wondering if that could have been an option in the summer, and if so then shouldn't have Pearson have known they weren't his types back then.

A lot of guessing though here. It might even be some players that are not interested in signing new deals that are currently playing are players Pearson wants to get rid of, as well as those that he doesnt feel fits in with how we play.

You can only ‘offload ‘ a contracted player if someone wants them or you buy out their contract. The second option is costly and wasteful. 
 

[Harry]

18 minutes ago, 054123 said:

Hopefully Joe Williams and Alex Scott will give you a spark of hope.

Also you do have to love Benarous lobbing the blokes boot. Petulance at its finest!

I think Williams is a very good player, but I can’t warm to him yet as I’ve only seen him 3 times in the 50 years he’s been here! 
It’s almost like one of those relationship things, where you build up a protective wall to stop you being hurt. I don’t wanna let Williams in yet in case he breaks my heart again

As for Scott. I don’t like his hair cut

[the1stknowle]

14 hours ago, Banjo Red said:

Agreed 

Think this is harsh. JD is off form but has been really good for us. And Kasey has had moments and nearly always runs hard.
 

Let’s not conveniently scapegoat a couple of players suddenly perceived as bad apples for what has been a long term collective underperformance by entire squad. 

[42nite]

19 minutes ago, the1stknowle said:

Think this is harsh. JD is off form but has been really good for us. And Kasey has had moments and nearly always runs hard.
 

Let’s not conveniently scapegoat a couple of players suddenly perceived as bad apples for what has been a long term collective underperformance by entire squad. 

 

Out of interest, who do you think are the players that Nige states don't want to be here?

 

[Banjo Red]

28 minutes ago, the1stknowle said:

Think this is harsh. JD is off form but has been really good for us. And Kasey has had moments and nearly always runs hard.
 

Let’s not conveniently scapegoat a couple of players suddenly perceived as bad apples for what has been a long term collective underperformance by entire 

One is too lightweight and the other goes missing.

[Harry]

41 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

IF Dasilva is one of the players then hopefully there is a simple solution.

I imagine Russell Martin with his obsessive possession based game would like Jay Dasilva at Swansea.

It seems that Jake Bidwell will be leaving at the end of the season when his contract expires.

I would say Bidwell is much more the Pearson type than Dasilva. So surely something can be done there?

Just hope that Martin does want Dasilva. He is made for the way they play imo so I don't see why Martin would not be keen.

The only flaw in that is that Dasilva isn’t very good in possession so wouldn’t suit a predominately possession heavy team. 
He’s like quite a few of our players, where they feel like they have to ‘push it’ too much, have very little patience to just keep the ball, pass pass pass, probe etc. We have too many players, Dasilva being one, who always feel like they have to produce something when they have the ball. It’s always forced and rushed. 
Just keep the damn thing! 

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Yep. I mean if a club are interested and we manage to do this in January then I will wonder if that could also have been an option in the summer.

Evolution, not revolution is the order of the day I think.  Having let however many players go as they were OOC, I suspect it was a case of let’s try to keep the rest together and get a tune out of the ones that are left.

2 hours ago, Harry said:

I think Williams is a very good player, but I can’t warm to him yet as I’ve only seen him 3 times in the 50 years he’s been here! 
It’s almost like one of those relationship things, where you build up a protective wall to stop you being hurt. I don’t wanna let Williams in yet in case he breaks my heart again

As for Scott. I don’t like his hair cut

Ok, I’m not sure I saw “haircut / style” on the scouting template I was shown by a a mutual friend!

[Sir Geoff]

For me a good solid Left Back is a priority in January and has been for 18 months or so. JD is clearly not on the bus. Cam Pring is ok but think he is better further forward giving COD competition at LWB.

"Someone to stick the ball in the back of the net" would be good but it seems that Wells, Martin and Weimann are on the bus so not really a vacant seat until the summer when Martin and or Wells will hopefully be phased out.

[The Bard]

 

Think this is harsh. JD is off form but has been really good for us. And Kasey has had moments and nearly always runs hard.
 

Let’s not conveniently scapegoat a couple of players suddenly perceived as bad apples for what has been a long term collective underperformance by entire squad. 

I don't think they're bad apples.  They're just not up to what the manager wants. 

They are massively overpaid for their usefullness IMO.

 

 

[LondonBristolian]

 

I don't think they're bad apples.  They're just not up to what the manager wants. 

They are massively overpaid for their usefullness IMO.

 

 

I think Dasilva is a very good player and has proven that in the past.

However a) his injury may have had an impact and b) it's pretty clear he is not the correct full back for how Pearson wants to play. 

My impression is that - for better or worse - Pearson prefer his full-backs to be defenders first and foremost and any attacking they do is a bonus. That's not Dasilva's game. He's far better suited to a team where the full back is primarily there to overlap and create attacking width with others helping cover the defensive duties in his absence.

I don't think Dasilva deserves any flak for that but, if he's not what the manager wants, it makes sense for everyone to move him on.

[SecretSam]

Palmer for sure, Wells possibly, I'd also wonder about Dasilva

[Harry]

1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said:

I think Dasilva is a very good player and has proven that in the past.

When? 
I think he’s been distinctly average - even in his loan spell which everyone seems to laud. He was average during that spell too. Just that no one likes to ‘call out’ average when it’s a new player. 

[robin_unreliant]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

When? 
I think he’s been distinctly average - even in his loan spell which everyone seems to laud. He was average during that spell too. Just that no one likes to ‘call out’ average when it’s a new player. 

No-one wants to pick on one of our own but the elephant in the room is his height, a feature which he can't be blamed for or improve, but which is just too big a disadvantage for a defender. 

[Davefevs]

5 hours ago, The Bard said:

I don't think they're bad apples.  They're just not up to what the manager wants. 

They are massively overpaid for their usefullness IMO.

 

 

Perhaps not how I’d have phrased it, but agree with sentiments.

If you could bring in an equal (or better) player for the less money, it makes sense.

If Jay is indeed stuck on the bus stop and Nige wants to move on, then I guess he is looking bring-forward a LB / LWB signing (left with O’Dowda / Pring).

Wonder if that is where the Guinness-Walker rumours have come from?  Could be two and two make five?

[LondonBristolian]

4 hours ago, Harry said:

When? 
I think he’s been distinctly average - even in his loan spell which everyone seems to laud. He was average during that spell too. Just that no one likes to ‘call out’ average when it’s a new player. 

If that’s what you’ve seen that’s what you’ve seen. I think he did well on loan and was one of a number of players who were great during that extended winning streak.

He obviously got injured very soon after joining us permanently and hasn’t been the same since but I remember games where we played poorly during LJ’s last season where Dasilva was one of our few bright points. Home to Barnsley in 2020 is one that sticks in the mind.

I don’t agree he was average during his loan spell but am not going to try and prove your opinion wrong.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, JonDolman said:

I don't think Pring can be a wing back for us. Unless he improves his stamina/fitness levels massively.

Or learns to run more efficiently.

Or plays in a team that doesn’t chase the ball for much of the game.

You get the gist .  I’m sure he’s fit enough, it’s using that fitness better.

[Pezo]

52 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

If that’s what you’ve seen that’s what you’ve seen. I think he did well on loan and was one of a number of players who were great during that extended winning streak.

He obviously got injured very soon after joining us permanently and hasn’t been the same since but I remember games where we played poorly during LJ’s last season where Dasilva was one of our few bright points. Home to Barnsley in 2020 is one that sticks in the mind.

I don’t agree he was average during his loan spell but am not going to try and prove your opinion wrong.

On his loan I'm fairly sure he was kept out of the team on a regular basis by someone breaking into the team for the first time when he already had 48 professional games under his belt.

[LondonBristolian]

35 minutes ago, Pezo said:

On his loan I'm fairly sure he was kept out of the team on a regular basis by someone breaking into the team for the first time when he already had 48 professional games under his belt.

True but that 'someone' was linked with Liverpool and sold to a Premier League team at the end of the season, has captained his club at the age of 22 and is currently a key player with a team who are running away with the division. I don't think there's any shame in being kept out the team by someone who may well prove to be the best player we've produced in the past two decades. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

9 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

True but that 'someone' was linked with Liverpool and sold to a Premier League team at the end of the season, has captained his club at the age of 22 and is currently a key player with a team who are running away with the division. I don't think there's any shame in being kept out the team by someone who may well prove to be the best player we've produced in the past two decades. 

And whose club conceded two sloppy defensive goals v bottom of the league when he wasn`t playing.

[Tomo]

On 21/11/2021 at 08:04, the1stknowle said:

Think this is harsh. JD is off form but has been really good for us. And Kasey has had moments and nearly always runs hard.
 

Let’s not conveniently scapegoat a couple of players suddenly perceived as bad apples for what has been a long term collective underperformance by entire squad. 

Just watched some footage of Saturday and JD was out on the pitch with the squad warming up before the game , so maybe there is no issue with Jay.... 

[NcnsBcfc]

57 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Just watched some footage of Saturday and JD was out on the pitch with the squad warming up before the game , so maybe there is no issue with Jay.... 

That's what NP did with Palmer for a number of matches though as well.

Made him train with the 18, on the pitch as well; even though he wasn't named in the matchday squad.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Tomo said:

Just watched some footage of Saturday and JD was out on the pitch with the squad warming up before the game , so maybe there is no issue with Jay.... 

54 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

That's what NP did with Palmer for a number of matches though as well.

Made him train with the 18, on the pitch as well; even though he wasn't named in the matchday squad.

Happened with Vyner and Simpson too….think they tend to have a 19th man, ready and warmed up in case of an injury to one of the 18 during the warm-up.  I guess that’s why Harvey Wiles-Richards is at each match too, 20th Man / GK cover.

[NcnsBcfc]

No real surprises with what the NP position seems to be around Dasilva.

As we said before the match on the forums prior to Saturday's game, he hasn't been that good either defensively or offensively for a long time now.

We needed to be better defensively as a team, and although there is no way COD is a LB, or in my eyes Vyner a Championship RB; we did as a team play better on Saturday without JD in it. Probably that was helped by the reintroduction of Williams into the mix.

NP obviously called out JD earlier on this season. He hasn't seen the required response; so as he puts it; JD is not "On the Bus". I don't think it's an attitude thing from Jay, it's just if you are an ex- England Under 21 international, I don't think it's unrealistic for the coaches to expect a higher level of performance. It's different in the case of Atkinson & Tanner, who are still learning; and very new to this level.

If that's not obtainable, then we need to move on, and get someone in who can.

Edited November 23, 2021 by NcnsBcfc

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, NcnsBcfc said:

No real surprises with what the NP position seems to be around Dasilva.

As we said before the match on the forums prior to Saturday's game, he hasn't been that good either defensively or offensively for a long time now.

We needed to be better defensively as a team, and although there is no way COD is a LB, or in my eyes Vyner a Championship RB; we did as a team play better on Saturday without JD in it. Probably that was helped by the reintroduction of Williams into the mix.

NP obviously called out JD earlier on this season. He hasn't seen the required response; so as he puts it; JD is not "On the Bus". I don't think it's an attitude thing from Jay, it's just if you are an ex- England Under 21 international, I don't think it's unrealistic for the coaches to expect a higher level of performance. It's different in the case of Atkinson & Tanner, who are still learning; and very new to this level.

If that's not obtainable, then we need to move on, and get someone in who can.

Good post….as you say, “not on the bus” can be for more than “attitude” reasons.  And in fact Nige said specifically “don’t want to be here”.  Obviously we don’t know the reasons why they don’t want to be here.  In Jay’s case (speculating massively) it could be that Nige doesn’t see him as first choice anymore, and Jay wants to play.

[Wrongagain]

JD is not used properly and that’s all there is to it! Typical of many of the Ashton/LJ signings selected then hung out to dry!