Massengo and Bakinson = weak midfield

[Topper 123]

Massengo and Bakinson are too weak for championship football neither have contributed with a assist or a goal which is shocking given the time on pitch and I personally watched Bakinson for the last 20 minutes at Coventry and not once did he pick anyone up , the team can not afford passengers in the championship who are frightened to challenge or put a foot in , Massengo can pull the ball down lovely but cannot do anything with it 

[Harry]

5 minutes ago, Lucan said:

I have noticed that "bakes" is a bit of a protected species on here.  I don't really get it, maybe its his youth or the face he is almost home grown

He’s not home grown. We purchased him from Luton. 

[BS3City]

4 minutes ago, Harry said:

He’s not home grown. We purchased him from Luton. 

I'm not a fan of "T". Any chance they're interested in buying him back?

[Topper 123]

I will challenge anyone to come on here and tell me what Massengo brings to the team , nor Bakinson who in my opinion would do well to hold down a place in a div 1 side both are not physical both are shot shy neither reads the game well or can pick up a runner ! 

[Harry]

15 minutes ago, Lucan said:

*ALMOST* home grown.  Read what I said please.

I am aware he played once for Luton

He was 2 months from his 19th birthday. I wouldn’t even call that ‘almost’ home grown. 
Sorry. I don’t mean to pick on you or be pedantic but there are many who actually do think he’s ‘home grown’, when he’s not. Not even almost. 

[Coxy27]

42 minutes ago, Magger1 said:

I will challenge anyone to come on here and tell me what Massengo brings to the team , nor Bakinson who in my opinion would do well to hold down a place in a div 1 side both are not physical both are shot shy neither reads the game well or can pick up a runner ! 

Watch the QPR away game and you will see what he offers.

He's young and he's not the finished article so will have bad games and make some mistakes. However, when he is playing well, he's one of the best players we have in my opinion. I think that QPR match is the best example.

[RedNachos]

Massengo needs to be played further forward, he's physical enough, but a bit too sloppy to be in contested midfield battles. However, his dribbling skill and ability to create space is maybe the best in the league.

Bakinson undoubtedly has talent and can pick classy passes, but his performances need to improve to keep in the X11. Calls for him to be sold are too far though, he will come good I expect.

[Fordy62]

I don’t think Bakinson has any urgency and he annoys me. Looks to play good through balls, but rarely executes them. 

Massengo however is a very good player. I bet you anything you like he moves onto a better team than us. 

[Davefevs]

What both players need around them is leadership / experience.  Williams provided that today, James and King did earlier this season.

Williams (24) the veteran in there today with Benarous (18) (then Massengo (20)) and Bakinson (23) alongside him…and Scott (18) playing RWB.  He led them superbly.

Thought there was really good “talking” out there too in the press. Weimann ensuring Tyreeq not dragged out of position.

[Topper 123]

Ok so people say he had a good game at QPR Ffs that was 2 seasons ago and still hasn’t commanded a first team spot even though our midfield been dog poo ,he hasn’t so much as set up a goal let alone score ,so you deluded nutters who think that’s enough I got news for you , that will relegate us 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Magger1 said:

Ok so people say he had a good game at QPR Ffs that was 2 seasons ago and still hasn’t commanded a first team spot even though our midfield been dog poo ,he hasn’t so much as set up a goal let alone score ,so you deluded nutters who think that’s enough I got news for you , that will relegate us 

Think they are referring to the away fixture this season when he played as a no10.

[Hazelboy]

Bakinson would bottle a 50/50 with his Nan. Absolutely no heart when the going gets tough.

Not good enough 

[Topper 123]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Think they are referring to the away fixture this season when he played as a no10.

Dave this season or last whenever hasn’t done enough with or without the ball ,age has nothing to do with it either he’s not as good as Nagy was 

[Better Red]

Bakunin is not good enough at this level.

Bored of saying it. Does not effect the game either going forward or defending. Weak in the tackle does not track back and rarely threatens going forward.

Some people are saying he had a ‘good’ game today - nonsense. Name one good thing he done. Get rid as soon as January comes.

As for Massengo it’s a bit harder. Younger player and is improving. My question is do he impact the game - at the moment for me no. So although I do want him to get there I am not sure again he is worth his place unless he starts to impact the game.

Williams and James are the bench mark and both are well short for me.

Both show we need to sign another midfielder in Jan even if on loan.

Williams looks a great player every time he plays and with James I think we have a good pairing. 
 

Bakinson - Out

Massengo - Keep 

[Davefevs]

42 minutes ago, Magger1 said:

Dave this season or last whenever hasn’t done enough with or without the ball ,age has nothing to do with it either he’s not as good as Nagy was 

In your opinion.  Nagy had little to no heart. 

[Numero Uno]

16 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

In your opinion.  Nagy had little to no heart. 

......and without that you really are Donald Ducked in the Championship in the central midfield area.

Edited November 20, 2021 by Numero Uno

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

My problem with T is that he never does the simple thing but tries to play a 'worldy' every time. Wonderful when it comes off but it's low precentage. 

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

My problem with T is that he never does the simple thing but tries to play a 'worldy' every time. Wonderful when it comes off but it's low precentage. 

He does….hoping Williams influence will rub off on him.

[REDOXO]

Bakinson played well today. A couple of wrong decisions but all in all not bad! 
 

Im in a minority here. But I’m not a fan is Massengo. I just feel when ever he is added in it’s a matter of time before we conceded. I would suspect statistics might support that view. 
 

 

[ralphindevon]

I guess it’ll always be the way on here but time and time again we go from, this time HNM, as “MOM” “brilliant again” “he’ll be premier league bound in January” for many games.

To coming back from an injury not at his best, maybe subconsciously thinking about not getting the same injury a 3rd time and now he’s never gonna make a championship midfielder and we should get rid.

Im predicting it’ll be Vyner next. Came back after a long time out of the team, got absolutely slaughtered on here. Played ok today, will have a cracking game against Stoke and by Thursday he’ll be off to Chelsea in the summer…..according to OTIB

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Bakinson played well today. A couple of wrong decisions but all in all not bad! 
 

Im in a minority here. But I’m not a fan is Massengo. I just feel when ever he is added in it’s a matter of time before we conceded. I would suspect statistics might support that view. 
 

 

Before today, here’s a pic of goals scored / conceded whilst on the pitch.

It’s sorted on Goals Against per 90…the second red column.  O’Dowda out on his own!!

The players who’ve played more games lately definitely coming out on top (top is bad).

As you’ll see from the +/- column, only Semenyo and Scott are in credit!

[The Original OTIB]

This place is weird. God bless Dave F. Patience of a saint. X.

[Topper 123]

16 minutes ago, ralphindevon said:

I guess it’ll always be the way on here but time and time again we go from, this time HNM, as “MOM” “brilliant again” “he’ll be premier league bound in January” for many games.

To coming back from an injury not at his best, maybe subconsciously thinking about not getting the same injury a 3rd time and now he’s never gonna make a championship midfielder and we should get rid.

Im predicting it’ll be Vyner next. Came back after a long time out of the team, got absolutely slaughtered on here. Played ok today, will have a cracking game against Stoke and by Thursday he’ll be off to Chelsea in the summer…..according to OTIB

Subconsciously not thinking about a third injury. If I had a player and he never gave 100% because worried about a third injury I’d have the ****** out the side 

 

[REDOXO]

19 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Before today, here’s a pic of goals scored / conceded whilst on the pitch.

It’s sorted on Goals Against per 90…the second red column.  O’Dowda out on his own!!

The players who’ve played more games lately definitely coming out on top (top is bad).

As you’ll see from the +/- column, only Semenyo and Scott are in credit!

Bless you. I knew you wouldn’t resist answering with a spreadsheet. Thanks!

So fourth worst while on the pitch in total. What’s his rate goals four and against when subbed on compared to all minutes, which was the comment.
 

To me anecdotally we just start looking jittery and look more likely to concede and to me at least pretty much always do. Winning positions lost after second half substitutions might be an interesting stat. 

Edited November 20, 2021 by REDOXO

[Engvall’s Splinter]

3 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

I don’t think Bakinson has any urgency and he annoys me. Looks to play good through balls, but rarely executes them. 

Massengo however is a very good player. I bet you anything you like he moves onto a better team than us. 

To be fair it looks like most players end up doing well once they leave the club. Most recently at least. 

[Toffee dog]

1 hour ago, REDOXO said:

Bakinson played well today. A couple of wrong decisions but all in all not bad! 
 

Im in a minority here. But I’m not a fan is Massengo. I just feel when ever he is added in it’s a matter of time before we conceded. I would suspect statistics might support that view. 
 

 

Thought Bakinson put in a shift best I have seen him in that respect, re: Massengo disagree qualit player but does need to score goals he is only 20 don forget

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, REDOXO said:

Bless you. I knew you wouldn’t resist answering with a spreadsheet. Thanks!

So fourth worst while on the pitch in total. What’s his rate goals four and against when subbed on compared to all minutes, which was the comment.
 

To me anecdotally we just start looking jittery and look more likely to concede and to me at least pretty much always do. Winning positions lost after second half substitutions might be an interesting stat. 

Okay, so that was a goals view from the FBRef website where I scrape the data into Tableau….so I can’t drill down to starts v subs.

But, I do create my own data of what I call “points won / lost” whilst on the pitch….where I track how the “result” changes between W, D & L.  All starters start with a draw, as the game starts 0-0.  If we are leading when a player leaves the pitch, then they get +2, if we are losing they get -1, etc.  Today Massengo would get -2, as we went from a winning (W) position to a drawing (D) position, e,g. From 3 pts to 1 pt.

Its not an exact science, but it’s something I’m keen to develop to see whether it does have some correlation or not.

Heres Massengo (before today), using my data:

Your gut feel is looking good.  One might also argue he’s more effective in a more advanced or wide midfield role…which funnily enough is where he played in France, either on the side (predominately) or tip (less so) of a diamond.  He is not a DM (imho).

 

[REDOXO]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Okay, so that was a goals view from the FBRef website where I scrape the data into Tableau….so I can’t drill down to starts v subs.

But, I do create my own data of what I call “points won / lost” whilst on the pitch….where I track how the “result” changes between W, D & L.  All starters start with a draw, as the game starts 0-0.  If we are leading when a player leaves the pitch, then they get +2, if we are losing they get -1, etc.  Today Massengo would get -2, as we went from a winning (W) position to a drawing (D) position, e,g. From 3 pts to 1 pt.

Its not an exact science, but it’s something I’m keen to develop to see whether it does have some correlation or not.

Heres Massengo (before today), using my data:

Your gut feel is looking good.  One might also argue he’s more effective in a more advanced or wide midfield role…which funnily enough is where he played in France, either on the side (predominately) or tip (less so) of a diamond.  He is not a DM (imho).

 

Thanks Dave. So there is statistical support for my ‘gut’ Good to know. 
 

Yes I’m sure there are arguments to be made on position etc and how he is played off the bench, however that’s how I keep seeing it. We are a team waiting to concede if he comes off the bench. 
 

Thanks for all the effort you put in!

[Southport Red]

9 hours ago, Engvall’s Splinter said:

To be fair it looks like most players end up doing well once they leave the club. Most recently at least. 

This is the thing that worries me. The reverse is also true. For example, Wells was a very good goal scorer everywhere else.