Pearson-ball v Martin-ball

[Davefevs]

Lot of clamour for Russell Martin (or a Martin-ball type) whenever Nige’s tenure is questioned.

Would you be happy playing pretty football but ultimately being in the same position (bar GD)?  Also let’s not forget Swansea have a better squad and budget than us, having only just stopped PPs.

Just thought it was interesting.

[And Its Smith]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Lot of clamour for Russell Martin (or a Martin-ball type) whenever Nige’s tenure is questioned.

Would you be happy playing pretty football but ultimately being in the same position (bar GD)?  Also let’s not forget Swansea have a better squad and budget than us, having only just stopped PPs.

Just thought it was interesting.

Need to consider that Martin has had a lot less time to work with his team, coming in on the eve of the new season. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Lot of clamour for Russell Martin (or a Martin-ball type) whenever Nige’s tenure is questioned.

Would you be happy playing pretty football but ultimately being in the same position (bar GD)?  Also let’s not forget Swansea have a better squad and budget than us, having only just stopped PPs.

Just thought it was interesting.

And if we`d have beaten them like we should have we`d be six points ahead of them.

[Taylor10]

It’s a flawed argument for me though Dave. People seem to think you can just turn up at a club and make any side a passing side or play attractive football.

Martin has gone from a passing/possession based side to a passing/possession based side that have had the philosophy ingrained in the club at all levels ever since the Martinez days. They also try to recruit players to play that way. I am not disputing Martin’s sides play good football or that he will become a good manager/coach but it’s far easier implementing a style when you have the players to do so. He couldn’t get us playing that way if he came here as we don’t have the players suited to that style. Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves on.

[Clevedon Red]

1 minute ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

And if we`d have beaten them like we should have we`d be six points ahead of them.

And if my aunt had balls etc etc.

[Wiltshire robin]

Martins had less time but has a far better squad than the shit nige has here . I still think nige is the man for the job it’s just gonna take a long time to sort out due to the club being run so poorly for so long .

Edited December 11, 2021 by Wiltshire robin

[Selred]

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Lot of clamour for Russell Martin (or a Martin-ball type) whenever Nige’s tenure is questioned.

Would you be happy playing pretty football but ultimately being in the same position (bar GD)?  Also let’s not forget Swansea have a better squad and budget than us, having only just stopped PPs.

Just thought it was interesting.

At least Martin has got a clear philosophy, I have no clue what Nigel’s is.

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Need to consider that Martin has had a lot less time to work with his team, coming in on the eve of the new season. 

True Dave….point was more that for all the plaudits his football gets it’s not achieving better results (at the mo’).

[Bristol Oil Services]

1 minute ago, Selred said:

At least Martin has got a clear philosophy, I have no clue what Nigel’s is.

Tricky for the opposition to "set up" right against us, then?

[GrahamC]

Think the biggest difference isn’t Pearson or Martin.

Swansea have had a defined style of play for years, whoever is their manager/ head coach, they follow it & that works.

We have veered all over the road with different types of play & coaches’ with vastly different styles.

I sadly doubt this will change so am happy to settle for at least giving someone with a decent track record (for once) the opportunity to see what he can do.

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, Taylor10 said:

It’s a flawed argument for me though Dave. People seem to think you can just turn up at a club and make any side a passing side or play attractive football.

Martin has gone from a passing/possession based side to a passing/possession based side that have had the philosophy ingrained in the club at all levels ever since the Martinez days. They also try to recruit players to play that way. I am not disputing Martin’s sides play good football or that he will become a good manager/coach but it’s far easier implementing a style when you have the players to do so. He couldn’t get us playing that way if he came here as we don’t have the players suited to that style. Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves on.

That’s kinda my point.  Even though Martin came in late, he’s taken over a club with a clear identity / playing style  / recruitment plan over a number of years…but it hasn’t got any better results.

He may start firing next week, but I thought it was an interesting comparison, in pure league table context and posters’ thoughts about Martin / Martin-ball.

[GTFABM]

watch the dross we produce or anything marginally better for the same results……? 

[1960maaan]

Easy question to answer.

Would you be happy playing pretty football but ultimately being in the same position (bar GD)?

After watching this for the past few years, it's a resounding yes from me.

On a serious note, we were never in the same position when Nige took over. We were desperate for a strong man to come in and rebuild the Club not just the team
Could Martin have done a better job, we'll never know, but I have my doubts.

[Taylor10]

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That’s kinda my point.  Even though Martin came in late, he’s taken over a club with a clear identity / playing style  / recruitment plan over a number of years…but it hasn’t got any better results.

He may start firing next week, but I thought it was an interesting comparison, in pure league table context and posters’ thoughts about Martin / Martin-ball.

A very interesting comparison mate. As you say he may come good yet but he’s not the chosen one few believe him to be. 

[CiderHeadDan]

For me football is completely about entertainment. Yes I want us to win every game, but there is a trade off between success and entertainment. 

Admittedly with Swansea's side, I think they are underachieving more so than ourselves. But at the same time I would take being where they are as a club over where we are at this moment in time.

Edited December 11, 2021 by CiderHeadDan

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Easy question to answer.

Would you be happy playing pretty football but ultimately being in the same position (bar GD)?

After watching this for the past few years, it's a resounding yes from me.

On a serious note, we were never in the same position when Nige took over. We were desperate for a strong man to come in and rebuild the Club not just the team
Could Martin have done a better job, we'll never know, but I have my doubts.

I guess my opening post was a bit loaded.

Your answer is probably what a lot of posters think.

[steviestevieneville]

Yes it is loaded I don’t like the word but it is a process with us , a transition & you know that fully 

I knew as did many of us that this season was all about where we were in May , in terms of progression. You can see & hear in NP’s post match press conferences how frustrated he is with our poor decision making & execution of how he wants to play. Imo this will gradually get better into 2022 . 
I’ve seen bits since the two coaches left , small bits here & there but signs of improvement. 
thing is , nige can get as frustrated as he wants but as he knows , the coaching will only show proper fruits when we have better players to carry out his instruction 

[Henry]

Not your finest topic @Davefevs

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Henry said:

Not your finest topic @Davefevs

Why not?  It’s sparking discussion. I’m trying to work out whether pretty football but same results is more important.

[B-Rizzle]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Lot of clamour for Russell Martin (or a Martin-ball type) whenever Nige’s tenure is questioned.

Would you be happy playing pretty football but ultimately being in the same position (bar GD)?  Also let’s not forget Swansea have a better squad and budget than us, having only just stopped PPs.

Just thought it was interesting.

Interesting.

Think the nature of their style of play and the performances for some of their wins have given their fans much more to be optimistic about though.

We might be level on points but they see a future under Martin and are hopeful. I’m not in the slightest bit optimistic about City at the moment under NP and our snatched, 1-0 victories don’t excite me in the slightest.

I want to go back to Johnson flunking the playoffs. We’re rubbish.

[Henry]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Why not?  It’s sparking discussion. I’m trying to work out whether pretty football but same results is more important.

It’s just a bit ‘comparing apples and bananas’ and ‘if my auntie had a set of balls’ type stuff. 
 

You’re better than that.

[B-Rizzle]

3 minutes ago, Henry said:

It’s just a bit ‘comparing apples and bananas’ and ‘if my auntie had a set of balls’ type stuff. 
 

You’re better than that.

Bit harsh. Think it’s a valid point. The perception (by me and others) was that Swansea are doing better than us. The stats, however, say otherwise.

I agree with others that entertainment is a huge part of what makes being a football fan exciting.

[BUTOR]

I just don’t understand the obsession with playing styles. We aren’t at the top end of the premier league. The championship is not the type of league in which to play fluent passing ball if you haven’t got the players to do it. You’ll end up getting pulverised. 

As long as we are playing to the individual strengths of the players we possess I couldn’t give a toss if we’re playing football in the sky or on the ground. As Nige says (nicked from Clough) ‘I like to focus on what players can do, rather than what they can’t do’. 

Not every club has to have a passing philosophy with some ridiculous backstory. Not every successful club does either. Honestly it’s not that important. Just focus on winning football matches with the strengths of the players you’ve got and improve on those players if the opportunity arises. 

[B-Rizzle]

4 minutes ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

I just don’t understand the obsession with playing styles. We aren’t at the top end of the premier league. The championship is not the type of league in which to play fluent passing ball if you haven’t got the players to do it. You’ll end up getting pulverised. 

As long as we are playing to the individual strengths of the players we possess I couldn’t give a toss if we’re playing football in the sky or on the ground. As Nige says (nicked from Clough) ‘I like to focus on what players can do, rather than what they can’t do’. 

Not every club has to have a passing philosophy with some ridiculous backstory. Not every successful club does either. Honestly it’s not that important. Just focus on winning football matches with the strengths of the players you’ve got and improve on those players if the opportunity arises. 

You enjoy watching city at the moment then?

[Davefevs]

11 minutes ago, Henry said:

It’s just a bit ‘comparing apples and bananas’ and ‘if my auntie had a set of balls’ type stuff. 
 

You’re better than that.

5 minutes ago, B-Rizzle said:

Bit harsh. Think it’s a valid point. The perception (by me and others) was that Swansea are doing better than us. The stats, however, say otherwise.

I agree with others that entertainment is a huge part of what makes being a football fan exciting.

Yep, exactly that, it’s comparing two different types of football.  The only analysis in the thread is that two teams are on the same points.

Im interested in peoples view as to the importance of one over the other.

2 minutes ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

I just don’t understand the obsession with playing styles. We aren’t at the top end of the premier league. The championship is not the type of league in which to play fluent passing ball if you haven’t got the players to do it. You’ll end up getting pulverised. 

As long as we are playing to the individual strengths of the players we possess I couldn’t give a toss if we’re playing football in the sky or on the ground. As Nige says (nicked from Clough) ‘I like to focus on what players can do, rather than what they can’t do’. 

Not every club has to have a passing philosophy with some ridiculous backstory. Not every successful club does either. Honestly it’s not that important. Just focus on winning football matches with the strengths of the players you’ve got and improve on those players if the opportunity arises. 

Yep, I’m not that fussed by the style itself…I’ve seen entertaining hoofball and boring tipi-tapi, and vice versa.  I think you can be entertained in many ways, sometimes by lovely attacking football, but I can also get satisfaction what watching a well-structured defender thwarting their opposition.

[steviestevieneville]

18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Why not?  It’s sparking discussion. I’m trying to work out whether pretty football but same results is more important.

I enjoy this shithousery from you tonight

It sparks all sorts of discussion really. 
even if we had a squad of 22 under nige we wouldn’t play like Swansea . 
Im not going to prompt a comparison with anyone but nige has said he wants to play 433 with a powerful & pacy side . That would be a mixture of a championship combination of Liverpool & wolves imo but obviously a much lesser degree ability wise 

[ExiledAjax]

 

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Would you be happy playing pretty football but ultimately being in the same position (bar GD)?

Yes.

If we end up in the same place then doesn't it stand to reason we should want to get there in the nicest, most attractive way possible?

If the destination is the same same I'd rather take the  leafy scenic route, stop at a lovely canalside pub, and enjoy the sunshine...over sitting grimly on the monotonous asphalt of the motorway before cramming a ginsters into my gob in a layby.

[Midlands Robin]

I guess the question is where will we both be at the end of the season?

Yes, we want to be entertained and for 18 months (and some would argue longer) that's been in short supply, but we all know that with the current state of our squad, points are more important than tekkers.

I'm holding some hope that we can strengthen the side in January as it's vital we do.

Until Nige gets the side he wants we won't really see his brand of football.

[BUTOR]

28 minutes ago, B-Rizzle said:

You enjoy watching city at the moment then?

I enjoy the wins and hate the losses as much as I always have. The second half today I really enjoyed. Have I enjoyed watching city more in the past? Yes, because we’ve had better players.

I’m also happy to give this manager time to develop the team and not throw my toys out the pram because it’s currently not my preference in terms of playing style. 
 

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Bouncearoundtheground

[Numero Uno]

34 minutes ago, B-Rizzle said:

Bit harsh. Think it’s a valid point. The perception (by me and others) was that Swansea are doing better than us. The stats, however, say otherwise.

I agree with others that entertainment is a huge part of what makes being a football fan exciting.

Johnson and his mate Swiss spunking money up the wall on mediocrity and “flunking” the play offs is exactly why we are where we are right now playing Poundland football on a Poundland budget. Of our non Poundland players only Kalas produces anything.