Lee Johnson's man management

[mozo]

On Lee Johnson... We surely have to accept the possibility that we would be in a better position had we not sacked him.

Let that sink in. It is very possible that we would be playing better football and winning more games under LJ in the almost 2 years since he left.

[Selred]

1 hour ago, mozo said:

On Lee Johnson... We surely have to accept the possibility that we would be in a better position had we not sacked him.

Let that sink in. It is very possible that we would be playing better football and winning more games under LJ in the almost 2 years since he left.

Some of the football under LJ come the final 12-14 months wasn’t better than what we have now.

[RobintheRed Red]

5 hours ago, MarcusX said:

Considering it was done at the level above, the football Johnson had us playing for a couple of seasons was some of the best I’ve seen us play. We went toe to toe with United AND City. We didn’t hide from them at all and played football. Neutrals all over the place were very complimentary of us - then someone ripped his team apart.

I think people forget we were usually in and around the top 6, albeit he lacked the consistency to get us over the line 

Then why did the sugar daddy sack him if he was so good ? Listen to frankie fielding interview he sa8d good coach but man management was shit 

[Ron W]

13 hours ago, mozo said:

On Lee Johnson... We surely have to accept the possibility that we would be in a better position had we not sacked him.

Let that sink in. It is very possible that we would be playing better football and winning more games under LJ in the almost 2 years since he left.

It's amazing what you can do with investment and quality players!

[1960maaan]

18 hours ago, mozo said:

On Lee Johnson... We surely have to accept the possibility that we would be in a better position had we not sacked him.

Let that sink in. It is very possible that we would be playing better football and winning more games under LJ in the almost 2 years since he left.

That's the word and ....
It's possible Holden would have had us in a better position, and Cotts and so on. Johnson got sacked because we fell apart late on in every season, AND later on the football was as bad as we are watching now.

His last season, 8 defeats and 2 draws in his last 11 games. OK , there is a possibility we could be better, but a likelihood we would be even worse.

[TomThumb84]

7 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

That's the word and ....
It's possible Holden would have had us in a better position, and Cotts and so on. Johnson got sacked because we fell apart late on in every season, AND later on the football was as bad as we are watching now.

His last season, 8 defeats and 2 draws in his last 11 games. OK , there is a possibility we could be better, but a likelihood we would be even worse.

LJ was his own worst enemy come the end. Over-thought everything.

Lockdown pickled his football brain I think.

I still remember the first home game back after the footballing Covid break and we had all that time to get Afobe fit, primed to make a charge for the play-offs and LJ played Benik wide left. Sheffield Wednesday I think. It was baffling.

[ZiderEyed]

On 16/12/2021 at 19:38, spudski said:

Even at LJs age, youngish, it must be a nightmare man managing players in their 20s and younger.

The world has changed so fast in recent years. 

Playing Professional football was like being in the Army...you went to war every game.

And in going to war...you fought...and didn't think about offending anyone. It was full on. Take no prisoners, win, say whatever to get results.

Now ..it's just woke central.

I'm really not sure how you go about it these days.

Didn't LJ say you had to put your arm around some to motivate and tell them how great they were, to get a result. Then others responded to a kick up the arse. 

How do you motivate multi millionaires, set up for life, to give a damn about kicking a ball. 

Woke central 

Answer is that you need more than a glorified drill sergeant. Archaic autocratic coaching styles have more or less evaporated because they are completely useless coaching younger players. All current academic research on coaching and learning processes says that the personality and style of a coach needs to mesh with a player. A generation of footballers who don't want to be shouted at unnessecarily? You need to adapt or you'll die off.

Move with the times or be consigned to the dustbin of history. 

[spudski]

9 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said:

Woke central 

Answer is that you need more than a glorified drill sergeant. Archaic autocratic coaching styles have more or less evaporated because they are completely useless coaching younger players. All current academic research on coaching and learning processes says that the personality and style of a coach needs to mesh with a player. A generation of footballers who don't want to be shouted at unnessecarily? You need to adapt or you'll die off.

Move with the times or be consigned to the dustbin of history. 

Yep...I know...I was a professional coach in another sport, and dealt with the younger generation. So I know exactly what older coaches have to adapt to. 

[Taylor10]

20 hours ago, mozo said:

On Lee Johnson... We surely have to accept the possibility that we would be in a better position had we not sacked him.

Let that sink in. It is very possible that we would be playing better football and winning more games under LJ in the almost 2 years since he left.

It’s almost as if we could expect the same from NP had he had £50mil plus to invest in the squad….

His time was up and ultimately he contributed to his own downfall.

[Sir Leigh of Somerset]

2 hours ago, ZiderEyed said:

Woke central 

Answer is that you need more than a glorified drill sergeant. Archaic autocratic coaching styles have more or less evaporated because they are completely useless coaching younger players. All current academic research on coaching and learning processes says that the personality and style of a coach needs to mesh with a player. A generation of footballers who don't want to be shouted at unnessecarily? You need to adapt or you'll die off.

Move with the times or be consigned to the dustbin of history. 

But surely it's ok if the Coach gives them a trigger warning beforehand and the Club provides safe spaces for them to retire to if they don't want to hear shouty voices?

It seems to be working at universities ok...........

[Sleepy1968]

On 18/12/2021 at 10:47, JoeAman08 said:

It was time for LJ to go but he was a success for his time here.

I think if he got partnered with a DOF and a bona fide recruitment team/scouting network rather than Mark Ashton's ego and his Lotus 123 spreadsheet we'd maybe have seen how good LJ could have been. Seriously if we'd just had someone around to give him a slap everytime he was about to say something idiotic there'd be a few less LJ haters;

[JoeAman08]

5 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said:

I think if he got partnered with a DOF and a bona fide recruitment team/scouting network rather than Mark Ashton's ego and his Lotus 123 spreadsheet we'd maybe have seen how good LJ could have been. Seriously if we'd just had someone around to give him a slap everytime he was about to say something idiotic there'd be a few less LJ haters;

Couldn’t agree more. 

[Numero Uno]

40 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said:

I think if he got partnered with a DOF and a bona fide recruitment team/scouting network rather than Mark Ashton's ego and his Lotus 123 spreadsheet we'd maybe have seen how good LJ could have been. Seriously if we'd just had someone around to give him a slap everytime he was about to say something idiotic there'd be a few less LJ haters;

All comes down to the same thing. Swiss and the Owner have completely messed up the playing side of the club between them. If it’s blame people want then no need to look anywhere else.

[ZiderEyed]

59 minutes ago, Sir Leigh of Somerset said:

But surely it's ok if the Coach gives them a trigger warning beforehand and the Club provides safe spaces for them to retire to if they don't want to hear shouty voices?

It seems to be working at universities ok...........

Actually, dismissing the thoughts and opinions of young athletes evinces autocratic coaching behaviour, which again is very outmoded. Most athletes want to have a dialogue with a coach, and understand why they are doing certain sessions, rather than jogging round a pitch endlessly with some despot in tight shorts and raybans screaming obscenities at them. 

Do trigger warning even exist? When was the last time you met a student or saw inside a university by the way? Just because it pops up in the Daily Mail doesn't mean it actually happens. 

Edited December 19, 2021 by ZiderEyed

[Ron W]

3 hours ago, spudski said:

Yep...I know...I was a professional coach in another sport, and dealt with the younger generation. So I know exactly what older coaches have to adapt to. 

And Lee Johnson is *checks notes*... 40.

[mozo]

4 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

That's the word and ....
It's possible Holden would have had us in a better position, and Cotts and so on. Johnson got sacked because we fell apart late on in every season, AND later on the football was as bad as we are watching now.

His last season, 8 defeats and 2 draws in his last 11 games. OK , there is a possibility we could be better, but a likelihood we would be even worse.

'Likelihood' should also state 'possibility'. The form was bad but LJ has turned form around before.

Wasn't LJ when sacked in a higher league position than Holden when sacked and Pearson currently?

At the time I supported his sacking, but on reflection I think there's a good argument that he'd have kept us a top half side.

[1960maaan]

12 minutes ago, mozo said:

'Likelihood' should also state 'possibility'. The form was bad but LJ has turned form around before.

Wasn't LJ when sacked in a higher league position than Holden when sacked and Pearson currently?

At the time I supported his sacking, but on reflection I think there's a good argument that he'd have kept us a top half side.

Well I guess you are an optimist then, fair play .  The time  he had here, he ended each season poorly, no reason to think that would change.

19/20  
9 defeats & 4 draws in 17 games

18/19
7 defeats. & 5 draws in 16 games

17/18
13 defeats & 9 draws in 27 games

It was far too much , feast or famine.  Some decent winning runs, but ending each year poorly means you will never be successful. Holden was massively unlucky , COVID and injuries , h could barely put a decent side out. Pearson has had injuries and a mess of huge proportions left for him by previous regimes . Johnson had more money, more players and more time than any manager previously. He was given chance to build and shape the side as he wanted, he bolloxed it. He may learn from it, he may be a good coach down the line, but his time was done. When people complain about the standard of football we watch, don't forget that started under Johnson.

 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Sleepy1968 said:

I think if he got partnered with a DOF and a bona fide recruitment team/scouting network rather than Mark Ashton's ego and his Lotus 123 spreadsheet we'd maybe have seen how good LJ could have been. Seriously if we'd just had someone around to give him a slap everytime he was about to say something idiotic there'd be a few less LJ haters;

1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said:

Couldn’t agree more. 

And me.  Instead we had a footballer wannabe with no ability to rein LJ (or himself in).

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

All comes down to the same thing. Swiss and the Owner have completely messed up the playing side of the club between them. If it’s blame people want then no need to look anywhere else.

Too right.  I don’t think LJ wanted a football person above him, his ego too big to think someone might know better than him.

[Keepers Ball]

Just like his Old Man then.

Steve Phillips became enemy No.1 thanks to him

[BS4 on Tour...]

On 17/12/2021 at 21:50, bcfcredandwhite said:

So please tell me who HAS achieved anything at Championship level then o wise one - I must be stupid because I can’t remember anyone achieving anything at this level since AD. 
No major silverware
No Premiership promotion

…… no change there then!!!!

... a ‘wise one’ would know the ‘premiership’ is in Scotland and no such entity has existed in England for over 13 years ...

[The Constant Rabbit]

On 17/12/2021 at 09:53, REDOXO said:

No I meant the bringing in of a nutritionist talking about crisps and chocolate and Tomlin telling the team how good they all were. It’s on the Wilbo interview it was hilarious!

Tomlin was taking the piss and LJ had no idea how to handle it was/is the sub-text! Wilbo even said I wouldn’t say anything here that I wouldn’t say to Tomo’s face. There is loads more particularly Wilbo approaching LJ about mobile phone use at training!

you should go find it it’s one of the best if not the best podcast interview of one of our best professionals!

How did you get so angry? 

Yeah - got a link to Wilbs interview please?

[REDOXO]

Yeah-Im sure that there is one as it was on here for a while and dozens listened to it!

Can anyone help out Rees-Mogg. I think it was one of the City podcasts!
 

 

[Wiltshire robin]

1 hour ago, REDOXO said:

Yeah-Im sure that there is one as it was on here for a while and dozens listened to it!

Can anyone help out Rees-Mogg. I think it was one of the City podcasts!
 

 

https://onestreaminbristol.libsyn.com/a-cider-with-aaron-wilbraham

Edited December 20, 2021 by Wiltshire robin

[spudski]

10 hours ago, RonWalker said:

And Lee Johnson is *checks notes*... 40.

Yes...and when he was here, he spoke openly about how he had to adjust his man management skills to the youngsters, as when he played, it was different. That was my point...the times have changed very fast. 

[bcfcredandwhite]

9 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

... a ‘wise one’ would know the ‘premiership’ is in Scotland and no such entity has existed in England for over 13 years ...

Ah - good one - avoiding the question on a technicality - better than pointing out that some people don't like LJ at Sunderland - which was nothing to do with the question.

I think there must be some aspiring politicians on here by the lengths some people will go to dodging questions and publicly acknowledging the simple truth that NOBODY has taken us closer to the English Premier League since Alan Dicks than the Johnsons.  

 

 

[BS4 on Tour...]

11 hours ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

Ah - good one - avoiding the question on a technicality - better than pointing out that some people don't like LJ at Sunderland - which was nothing to do with the question.

I think there must be some aspiring politicians on here by the lengths some people will go to dodging questions and publicly acknowledging the simple truth that NOBODY has taken us closer to the English Premier League since Alan Dicks than the Johnsons.  

Apologies, I know I was being a bit flippant - but yours is a very interesting debate, Gary and Lee Johnson have given us a bit of a hope when we’ve been in the championship, tempered with lots of despair. Gary obviously very nearly got us up to the premier league - just one game away, what a season that was - it was also a strange season, we seemed to win 1-0 lots of times before getting the occasional thrashing - and our top scorer was in single figures, is that correct?

And what is it with LJ and the league cup??! I noticed earlier that Sunderland are in the quarter finals vs Arsenal? 

[Slacker]

12 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Apologies, I know I was being a bit flippant - but yours is a very interesting debate, Gary and Lee Johnson have given us a bit of a hope when we’ve been in the championship, tempered with lots of despair. Gary obviously very nearly got us up to the premier league - just one game away, what a season that was - it was also a strange season, we seemed to win 1-0 lots of times before getting the occasional thrashing - and our top scorer was in single figures, is that correct?

And what is it with LJ and the league cup??! I noticed earlier that Sunderland are in the quarter finals vs Arsenal? 

Darren Byfield with 9 goals I think. 

[Waconda]

On 18/12/2021 at 22:37, mozo said:

On Lee Johnson... We surely have to accept the possibility that we would be in a better position had we not sacked him.

Let that sink in. It is very possible that we would be playing better football and winning more games under LJ in the almost 2 years since he left.

Sadly that is a distinct possibility.

[Waconda]

On 19/12/2021 at 18:14, ZiderEyed said:

Woke central 

Answer is that you need more than a glorified drill sergeant. Archaic autocratic coaching styles have more or less evaporated because they are completely useless coaching younger players. All current academic research on coaching and learning processes says that the personality and style of a coach needs to mesh with a player. A generation of footballers who don't want to be shouted at unnessecarily? You need to adapt or you'll die off.

Move with the times or be consigned to the dustbin of history. 

This is spot on but you will not convince the masses.

[REDOXO]

12 hours ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

Ah - good one - avoiding the question on a technicality - better than pointing out that some people don't like LJ at Sunderland - which was nothing to do with the question.

I think there must be some aspiring politicians on here by the lengths some people will go to dodging questions and publicly acknowledging the simple truth that NOBODY has taken us closer to the English Premier League since Alan Dicks than the Johnsons.  

 

 

Not being pedantic or getting in the middle of whatever punch up your having with anyone. BUT the thread was about Lee Johnson’s man management. 
 

For the record Gary is a top bloke still got a picture of him and my old man 11years ago before he passed away. 
 

Lee I’m sure is a lovely guy. But some of the questions about his man management stem from comments from his former players. 

Edited December 20, 2021 by REDOXO

[bcfcredandwhite]

3 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Apologies, I know I was being a bit flippant - but yours is a very interesting debate, Gary and Lee Johnson have given us a bit of a hope when we’ve been in the championship, tempered with lots of despair. Gary obviously very nearly got us up to the premier league - just one game away, what a season that was - it was also a strange season, we seemed to win 1-0 lots of times before getting the occasional thrashing - and our top scorer was in single figures, is that correct?

And what is it with LJ and the league cup??! I noticed earlier that Sunderland are in the quarter finals vs Arsenal? 

No problem with your response mate and if I’m honest I’m playing a bit of a ‘fishing’ game with the LJ-haters hoping for a bite. 
However, my serious response to the original post about LJs (alleged lack of) man-management skills was to point out that IMHO he couldn’t have been THAT bad when he gave us the longest continuous championship status since Alan Dicks and a brilliant cup run. 
My point was that if he really was THAT bad the players wouldn’t have given that to him. 
 

[bcfcredandwhite]

2 hours ago, REDOXO said:

Not being pedantic or getting in the middle of whatever punch up your having with anyone. BUT the thread was about Lee Johnson’s man management. 
 

For the record Gary is a top bloke still got a picture of him and my old man 11years ago before he passed away. 
 

Lee I’m sure is a lovely guy. But some of the questions about his man management stem from comments from his former players. 

No ‘punch up’

‘Wind up’ maybe!!

Please see my response to BS4 On Tour above. 

Edited December 21, 2021 by bcfcredandwhite
Add words

[bcfcredandwhite]

3 hours ago, Slacker said:

Darren Byfield with 9 goals I think. 

And we had a goal difference of zero that season!!

[Oh Louie louie]

That was a strange one gjs and byfields fall out.

Dont recall the exact game, but it was at home, and gj, subbed him early in the first half.

He was playing well, and gj said something like, i subbed him because he was covering to much ground.

He rarely played after that.

[Oh Louie louie]

Il give gj that, he didnt care about players reputations.

Loads found that out.

 

[bpexile]

On 18/12/2021 at 00:28, bcfcredandwhite said:

.. and both took us closer to achieving top flight football again than any other manager since the great Alan Dicks

Perhaps SL should name a stand 'The Johnson Stand' in recognition of the services that family have given the club? 

You having a laugh ?

Edited December 21, 2021 by bpexile

[One Team]

Arsenal vs LJ tonight. Be typical Johnson to get a cheeky win! 

[The Constant Rabbit]

On 20/12/2021 at 16:14, Wiltshire robin said:

https://onestreaminbristol.libsyn.com/a-cider-with-aaron-wilbraham

Cracking listen - thanks for the link

[Portland Bill]

On 20/12/2021 at 09:55, bcfcredandwhite said:

Ah - good one - avoiding the question on a technicality - better than pointing out that some people don't like LJ at Sunderland - which was nothing to do with the question.

I think there must be some aspiring politicians on here by the lengths some people will go to dodging questions and publicly acknowledging the simple truth that NOBODY has taken us closer to the English Premier League since Alan Dicks than the Johnsons.  

 

 

And both of them left our playing side in a total utter mess. Like father like son, both football, gamblers. 

[Bristol Rob]

This Frankie Fielding/LJ was a bad man manager bit...

Keeper gets injured, replacement comes in and does well, and it's likely the replacement will keep the role, hardly the fault of LJ to point out to FF that he might not get straight back in the side.

As for the cup games, LS did really well all competition - especially against Utd, he can probably feel annoyed he never got to play the Man City game.

Sounds (to me) that FF considered himself number one. Great that he wanted to play as much as possible, but with another senior player in his position on the bench, not being in in the side was always going to make reclaiming the starting role difficult.