Lee Johnson's man management

[1960maaan]

Wasn't sure how to name the thread, but seemed appropriate.

Just listened to a Podcast with Frankie Fielding, interesting and speaks highly of Bristol and City. What he does say is Johnson was a good coach but poor man management. The time around the Cup run stands out. Being told he was done for the season and Luke Steele would play. It's interesting as The Under the Cosh episode with Steele, he says he was promised a run in the Cup, only to be dropped for Frankie for the Man City game. Another bit when he was told he was done, when we signed Giefer. Looked like he was leaving and LJ told him he wouldn't get that same wages anywhere else. Only for Johnson to give him a new contract on more money later in the season. Interesting listen.

 

 

[BTRFTG]

What, you mean this....?

[CheddarReds]

Frank starts talking about us around 27/28 minutes

[CheddarReds]

To summarise for those that can't/ don't want to listen to it:

Sean O'Driscoll:

- speaking to O'Driscoll sold him on BCFC, rather than moving to Barnsley.
- was terrible. He gave an example of when we lost 3-0 at P'boro but told the players they played well.
- Frank hypothesised that Richard O'Kelly (now with Dean Smith) was key to S'OD and S'OD struggled even more when he left

Cotts:

- was intense, honest, loving and good to work under.
- Sometimes he lost the plot and he wouldn't speak to the players for a few days at a time. He gave the example that between losing against Colchester away one Saturday am, he then didn't speak to the player til Tuesday am before we played Doncaster away. 
- Said Wilbs "ran our changing room and is a great human being"

Championship 15/16:

- Frankie got thrown in too early after being injured but they did the job by staying up.

Lee Johnson:

- As OP has said. 
- Said after being sent off against Wolves LJ told him he probably won't play again til the end of the season which was bad for Frankie's motivation. 
- Frankie didn't confront LJ about some of the odd management

Sums up his time at BCFC by saying he loved it. 



 

[Phileas Fogg]

17 minutes ago, CheddarReds said:

To summarise for those that can't/ don't want to listen to it:

Sean O'Driscoll:

- speaking to O'Driscoll sold him on BCFC, rather than moving to Barnsley.
- was terrible. He gave an example of when we lost 3-0 at P'boro but told the players they played well.
- Frank hypothesised that Richard O'Kelly (now with Dean Smith) was key to S'OD and S'OD struggled even more when he left

Cotts:

- was intense, honest, loving and good to work under.
- Sometimes he lost the plot and he wouldn't speak to the players for a few days at a time. He gave the example that between losing against Colchester away one Saturday am, he then didn't speak to the player til Tuesday am before we played Doncaster away. 
- Said Wilbs "ran our changing room and is a great human being"

Championship 15/16:

- Frankie got thrown in too early after being injured but they did the job by staying up.

Lee Johnson:

- As OP has said. 
- Said after being sent off against Wolves LJ told him he probably won't play again til the end of the season which was bad for Frankie's motivation. 
- Frankie didn't confront LJ about some of the odd management

Sums up his time at BCFC by saying he loved it. 

That's very interesting as I would say those comments reflect (generally) what most fans on here feel about those managers and their strengths/weaknesses. Especially LJ and Cotterill. 

[cidered abroad]

NON EXISTENT!

[Bristol Rob]

39 minutes ago, CheddarReds said:

To summarise for those that can't/ don't want to listen to it:

Sean O'Driscoll:

- speaking to O'Driscoll sold him on BCFC, rather than moving to Barnsley.
- was terrible. He gave an example of when we lost 3-0 at P'boro but told the players they played well.
- Frank hypothesised that Richard O'Kelly (now with Dean Smith) was key to S'OD and S'OD struggled even more when he left

Cotts:

- was intense, honest, loving and good to work under.
- Sometimes he lost the plot and he wouldn't speak to the players for a few days at a time. He gave the example that between losing against Colchester away one Saturday am, he then didn't speak to the player til Tuesday am before we played Doncaster away. 
- Said Wilbs "ran our changing room and is a great human being"

Championship 15/16:

- Frankie got thrown in too early after being injured but they did the job by staying up.

Lee Johnson:

- As OP has said. 
- Said after being sent off against Wolves LJ told him he probably won't play again til the end of the season which was bad for Frankie's motivation. 
- Frankie didn't confront LJ about some of the odd management

Sums up his time at BCFC by saying he loved it. 



 

Did he mention 'Pembo' the greatest coach who ever lived?

Not my word Jim, but the words of thousands of OTIB posters who were individually trained by him.

[2015]

Man Management is being taught out of young aspiring coaches today. It's probably 70% of the job, keeping the players confident and content. No confidence and low morale = Bad results.

Ferguson was an monster man manager who was decent with tactics but relied on his high motivational skills to control a team in his image. 
A lot of these young and aspiring Managers these days like their clipboards and drones but can't motivate a thing

[Bristol Rob]

5 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Man Management is being taught out of young aspiring coaches today. It's probably 70% of the job, keeping the players confident and content. No confidence and low morale = Bad results.

Ferguson was an monster man manager who was decent with tactics but relied on his high motivational skills to control a team in his image. 
A lot of these young and aspiring Managers these days like their clipboards and drones but can't motivate a thing

What evidence is there to support this?

Genuinely interested.

[2015]

12 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

What evidence is there to support this?

Genuinely interested.

Well, Ferguson won 13 League titles and 2 Champions League's.. 

[CheddarReds]

16 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Man Management is being taught out of young aspiring coaches today. It's probably 70% of the job, keeping the players confident and content. No confidence and low morale = Bad results.

Ferguson was an monster man manager who was decent with tactics but relied on his high motivational skills to control a team in his image. 
A lot of these young and aspiring Managers these days like their clipboards and drones but can't motivate a thing

I'm not sure where you've got the impression that man management is being taught out of coaches.

I have a first-class sports coaching degree, have worked at academy and development centre level in a variety of roles and have had multiple players signed to professional academies. 

In my experience - I was expecting my degree (and to a lesser extent, coaching courses) to focus on technical and tactical aspects of sport a lot more than it did. More focus than ever is placed on how to optimise relationships and environments between coaches, individuals and teams by applying and reflecting upon the use of theories in practice.

[daored]

1 hour ago, CheddarReds said:

 

- Said Wilbs "ran our changing room and is a great human being”

 

Think we’ve just found out who the new Ipswich manager is 

[BigTone]

16 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Well, Ferguson won 13 League titles and 2 Champions League's.. 

Could have done better

[mozo]

1 hour ago, CheddarReds said:

Lee Johnson:

- As OP has said. 
- Said after being sent off against Wolves LJ told him he probably won't play again til the end of the season which was bad for Frankie's motivation. 
- Frankie didn't confront LJ about some of the odd management
 

I can understand LJ's anger there mind!

[Phileas Fogg]

42 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Man Management is being taught out of young aspiring coaches today. It's probably 70% of the job, keeping the players confident and content. No confidence and low morale = Bad results.

Ferguson was an monster man manager who was decent with tactics but relied on his high motivational skills to control a team in his image. 
A lot of these young and aspiring Managers these days like their clipboards and drones but can't motivate a thing

I think this is a bit of a strange take and one that's very difficult to quantify.

[Harry]

3 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

Wasn't sure how to name the thread, but seemed appropriate.

Just listened to a Podcast with Frankie Fielding, interesting and speaks highly of Bristol and City. What he does say is Johnson was a good coach but poor man management. The time around the Cup run stands out. Being told he was done for the season and Luke Steele would play. It's interesting as The Under the Cosh episode with Steele, he says he was promised a run in the Cup, only to be dropped for Frankie for the Man City game. Another bit when he was told he was done, when we signed Giefer. Looked like he was leaving and LJ told him he wouldn't get that same wages anywhere else. Only for Johnson to give him a new contract on more money later in the season. Interesting listen.

 

 

As far as LJ is concerned, I’d hope many of his detractors will have picked up on the very important comment here : he is a good coach. 
 

When we look at how far we’ve dropped off since he left, with many of the same players, hopefully those detractors will perhaps realise that LJ did actually manage to coach these players up to be better than the sum of their parts. 
 

Regards the contract situation. LJ let Frankie run his contract down so that he would have more options in the free agency market. When those options didn’t arise he re-signed him. So that comment makes absolute sense and certainly isn’t a bad thing or something to put ‘against’ LJ. 
 

Ultimately I think, from the man-management perspective, LJ was a very young manager when he was here - yes, perhaps we employed him a few years too early. 
It’s an important part of the role that he definitely needed to improve. But, as Frankie suggests, LJ’s coaching ability was good. Despite what some people like to say on here. 

[Bristol Rob]

47 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Well, Ferguson won 13 League titles and 2 Champions League's.. 

So none then. 

[Simon bristol]

44 minutes ago, daored said:

Think we’ve just found out who the new Ipswich manager is 

Would love to see wilbs still involved with the club,,, but we got danny simpson instead 

[1960maaan]

21 minutes ago, Harry said:

As far as LJ is concerned, I’d hope many of his detractors will have picked up on the very important comment here : he is a good coach. 

I've always said the thing that got me thinking he may be a good manager for us, he was keen and eager to learn. Sadly, that was also his undoing. He couldn't focus on system , shape or style he wanted to play. I think he may have set a record for the number of formation changes in game. FF actually said he had lots of ideas, shame he couldn't pick one or two and plan for them.

[TonyTonyTony]

Interesting to listen to that. 

I think people forget Johnson is still very young - he is currently 40. Its not uncommon for young managers, not just in football, to have bad man management skills. They tend to either try and be too pally, over overuse the authority card to make up for their lack of experience. If Johnson continues coaching, you'd expect his man management to improve as he matures

[Carey 6]

You'd imagine a lot of coaches tend to base their coaching style on the managers they've previously played under. 

LJ played a lot of his career under his old man. Another who seemed to fall out with quite a few players. Wouldn't surprise me if he tries to use a few of the old GJ 'hand grenades'. Not sure how effective they are on players nowadays though, we always hear about how many now prefer the arm around the shoulder type management. 

[2015]

6 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Interesting to listen to that. 

I think people forget Johnson is still very young - he is currently 40. Its not uncommon for young managers, not just in football, to have bad man management skills. They tend to either try and be too pally, over overuse the authority card to make up for their lack of experience. If Johnson continues coaching, you'd expect his man management to improve as he matures

Don't say that you'll upset them  

[alexukhc]

26 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

Would love to see wilbs still involved with the club,,, but we got danny simpson instead 

Wanted to return up north didn’t he?

[Oh Louie louie]

If he doesnt get sunderland up, he will get sacked.

S or bust season.

I wouldnt bet against a 2nd sacking on his cv.

He didnt half talk some crap on radio bristol.

One week hes saying im thinking about making him my captain.

Next week, its oh i loaned him to southend.

 

[REDOXO]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

As far as LJ is concerned, I’d hope many of his detractors will have picked up on the very important comment here : he is a good coach. 
 

When we look at how far we’ve dropped off since he left, with many of the same players, hopefully those detractors will perhaps realise that LJ did actually manage to coach these players up to be better than the sum of their parts. 
 

Regards the contract situation. LJ let Frankie run his contract down so that he would have more options in the free agency market. When those options didn’t arise he re-signed him. So that comment makes absolute sense and certainly isn’t a bad thing or something to put ‘against’ LJ. 
 

Ultimately I think, from the man-management perspective, LJ was a very young manager when he was here - yes, perhaps we employed him a few years too early. 
It’s an important part of the role that he definitely needed to improve. But, as Frankie suggests, LJ’s coaching ability was good. Despite what some people like to say on here. 

Mmm I just took the good coach comments as the build up to the big BUT. Which inevitably came. The Wilbo interview went through the same stuff in more detail. The whole situation with Tomlin was hilarious!

 

 

[dREDful]

Such a shame we rewarded those Bristol City legends for their promotion with giving them Lee Johnson as manager. 

They deserved so much more. 

 

Edit- I say promotion. Sorry, I mean double winning league and cup championship. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by dREDful

[Fordy62]

6 minutes ago, dREDful said:

Such a shame we rewarded those Bristol City legends for their promotion with giving them Lee Johnson as manager. 

They deserved so much more. 

 

Edit- I say promotion. Sorry, I mean double winning league and cup championship. 

Ayling, you’re not good enough get out. Freeman, you’re not good enough either…

[MarcusX]

4 hours ago, 2015 said:

Well, Ferguson won 13 League titles and 2 Champions League's.. 

not sure that was the bit they wanted evidence of

[spudski]

Even at LJs age, youngish, it must be a nightmare man managing players in their 20s and younger.

The world has changed so fast in recent years. 

Playing Professional football was like being in the Army...you went to war every game.

And in going to war...you fought...and didn't think about offending anyone. It was full on. Take no prisoners, win, say whatever to get results.

Now ..it's just woke central.

I'm really not sure how you go about it these days.

Didn't LJ say you had to put your arm around some to motivate and tell them how great they were, to get a result. Then others responded to a kick up the arse. 

How do you motivate multi millionaires, set up for life, to give a damn about kicking a ball. 

[Hazelboy]

1 minute ago, spudski said:

Even at LJs age, youngish, it must be a nightmare man managing players in their 20s and younger.

The world has changed so fast in recent years. 

Playing Professional football was like being in the Army...you went to war every game.

And in going to war...you fought...and didn't think about offending anyone. It was full on. Take no prisoners, win, say whatever to get results.

Now ..it's just woke central.

I'm really not sure how you go about it these days.

Didn't LJ say you had to put your arm around some to motivate and tell them how great they were, to get a result. Then others responded to a kick up the arse. 

How do you motivate multi millionaires, set up for life, to give a damn about kicking a ball. 

That Reminds me of another great LJ quote,

‘Who motivates the motivator’