screech Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Not being at the opening game myself due to holiday commitment I bring to the table for this argument the form shown during the pre season where we played 4-3-3 very well against Pompey and WBA. It worked well because everyone played it properly then, Saturday by all accounts fell flat because Lita and Murray were not doing their jobs properly ie getting wide and allowing the midfield to get forward. Stick with the formation for now I say, If after 5 games it isn't working, scrap it! Got to be given more than 1 game though surely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TinmansCulturedLeftPeg Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 I don't think Lita is being asked to play wider on the left....I'd rather him be getting closer to Heffernan....but ideally I'd rather have a target man up there like Miller Personally I'd do this.... Murray on the right,Goodfellow on the left,Orr and Doherty in midfield,then Heffernan alongside our only target-man Miller....Goodfellow perhaps given some freedom to fill the hole between midfield and attack.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Boy Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Firstly never make the mistake of thinking that friendly's and testimonials are a "proper game of footabll" because they're not. Secondly, sides who come to AG will, mostly, pack the defence and we need WIDTH to get round them and MOVEMENT to play through them. On Saturday we had neither and were also hampered by three midfielders who never got past the ball. Saying we didn't do it right is correct, but when you select a team you have to take into account ability levels and talent and that's what will preclude us from making this syestem work. Tonight? I've already predicted a defeat and with 4-3-3 I think it will be either 2-0 or 2-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TinmansCulturedLeftPeg Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 I've predicted a 2-1 defeat....I think Goodfellow is a tricky player who can make himself difficult to pick up either around the outside or making runs beyond a target-man through the middle....I hope he gets involved sooner or later.... Also I think Orr may feel a little lost alongside two other central midfielders and is holding himself back whilst confused..maybe he doesn't know his duties in this scrambled up formation but I think he looked abit lost on Saturday..no wingers on the flanks and a couple of other midfielders around him....I'd like to see just Orr and Doherty in just a regular midfield.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted August 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 I'll admit I'm no fan of the 4-3-3 system and would prefer to see a 3-5-2 or our proven 4-4-2 with the no attacking clause taken out of it, but I believe 4-3-3 should be looked at more than once before being cast aside. But I'll agree that we don't appear to have the players to fit in to the 4-3-3, although I am more than happy to give Tins half a dozen games with it provided we don't lose any matches convincingly in that time. It's absoloutely essential that we get some good results at the start of the season to give these players the confidence to win this league, we cannot afford to chase any teams as the previous years of failure have shown us we are good enough to claw it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 I'll admit I'm no fan of the 4-3-3 system and would prefer to see a 3-5-2 or our proven 4-4-2 with the no attacking clause taken out of it, but I believe 4-3-3 should be looked at more than once before being cast aside. But I'll agree that we don't appear to have the players to fit in to the 4-3-3, although I am more than happy to give Tins half a dozen games with it provided we don't lose any matches convincingly in that time. It's absoloutely essential that we get some good results at the start of the season to give these players the confidence to win this league, we cannot afford to chase any teams as the previous years of failure have shown us we are good enough to claw it back. ← I don't profess to being a qualified coach, which Tinnion is. However, it seems to me that for 4-3-3 to work you need the front 6 to be able to link well, be mobile and play as a unit and above all, they need to have quick footballing brains. Last season, we tended to play either fairly long balls up to Peacock, or else our slow and steady back and across passing game, where we got to the opposition penalty area eventually. I've not seen any games yet, but was struck by fans comments on the WBA game, which indicated that at the start their defenders didn't know who to pick up due to movement and slick passing - that's what we have to have to make 4-3-3 work. It is a big change in style from what the players were used to last season, and will take some time to bed in. When he gets back from the Olympics I reckon Wilkshire could be a crucial player in all this as he does have a good football brain and can play quick pass and move football, but last season he seemed a bit of a square peg in a round hole, as not all the players around him were on th same wavelength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TinmansCulturedLeftPeg Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 I don't profess to being a qualified coach← Working towards coaching badges you don't learn team tactics etc because there is no right or wrong way to do things in professional football....you learn a lot of training drills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Twin City with En Avant Guingamp Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 I think we just have to be patient with the 4-3-3, if it is not working after a few home and away games then it needs to be changed. After one game we cannot start judging the tactic. It was a hot day and difficult to play football in. I think team will improve over next few games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zookeeper Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Working towards coaching badges you don't learn team tactics etc because there is no right or wrong way to do things in professional football....you learn a lot of training drills! ← Ummm, yes you do! They don't teach you one style but they go through the theoretical sides of tactics and strategies! On the courses that Tinman has been on you learn a hell of a lot more than just training drills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TinmansCulturedLeftPeg Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Ummm, yes you do! They don't teach you one style but they go through the theoretical sides of tactics and strategies! On the courses that Tinman has been on you learn a hell of a lot more than just training drills ← There is no textbook way of playing in terms of tactics....for UEFA's class 'A' badges you don't learn how to teach kids how to play zonally mate.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TinmansCulturedLeftPeg Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Tactics and formations are personalised.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zookeeper Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TinmansCulturedLeftPeg Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Tactics and formations are personalised.... ← Tactics and formations are personalised.... There is no textbook way of playing in professional football.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TinmansCulturedLeftPeg Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 The most important eliment in attaining coaching badges (or any qualifications for that matter!) is MEMORY.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zookeeper Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Tactics and formations are personalised.... There is no textbook way of playing in professional football.... ← Of course there is no textbook way which is why these courses don't just preech one style but give the potential coaches enough information to make up their own minds. Your post stated that they don't teach this. - Well they do! Simple boyo, you were wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zookeeper Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 The most important eliment in attaining coaching badges (or any qualifications for that matter!) is MEMORY.. ← These aren't multiple choice quizes. They are a practical assesment of how you can lead and interact with a group of players. Even quite basic football qualifications focus on how you lead the sessions. Memory is important but not vital. It's about how you interact and get your (informed) message accross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TinmansCulturedLeftPeg Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Strategies and tactics are only a very minor part of the 'A' badge....you need to memorise some zonal tactics (that you already know beforehand) and it requires MEMORY....but your not learning kids the basics....the main emphasis is on training techniques.... Now unless your a complete fool,you'd know that Tinman would use the same tactics and formation if he had never attended any coaching courses in his entire life..it's pretty much a fact..the badges are just that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TinmansCulturedLeftPeg Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 These aren't multiple choice quizes. They are a practical assesment of how you can lead and interact with a group of players. Even quite basic football qualifications focus on how you lead the sessions. Memory is important but not vital. It's about how you interact and get your (informed) message accross. ← Your learnt how to do this beforehand so it's about remembering how they tried learning you leadership skills and applying what they tried learning you if you want to get the badge....it really isn't about individuality on these courses.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22A Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Historical note; the 4-3-3 formation is attributed to Sir Alf Ramsey. 1965 Spain away and england's best wingers were all injured (or under suspension) and so the "Wingless Wonders" were born. They won in Spain and Sir Alf stuck with the formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TinmansCulturedLeftPeg Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 It's my favourite formation.... zookeeper,here's to a long reply from you coming up You wait and see lads....here it comes...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TinmansCulturedLeftPeg Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Anyway..I'm off.... See you later zookeeper mate.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zookeeper Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Strategies and tactics are only a very minor part of the 'A' badge....you learn zonal tactics and the basics (that you already know beforehand) and it requires MEMORY....the main emphasis is on training techniques.... Now unless your a complete fool,you'd know that Tinman would use the same tactics and formation if he had never attended any coaching courses in his entire life..it's pretty much a fact..the badges are just that! ← Again, I think I must be a complete fool! Your changinging your tune a little aren't you. Before it was that you don't learn zonal stuff, now you learn stuff that you already knew. Why is it a fact that he would have done the same if he hadn't attended? Is it a fact cos you said so? Don't think you've been on many training courses! Coaching courses increase your exposure to other views, opinions, styles, methods from the other participants. People further their understanding of how to play by attending these courses. Even if you don't learn stuff from the tutors you pick up stuff from those attending. How would he develop his style and ability if he only did what he was always going to do? Edit: Just thought I would add this Micky Adams and other footie managers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TinmansCulturedLeftPeg Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 After you've got your badges it's all about individuality..it's pretty much a fact you muppet.... Stop playing pointless word games.... I said that you don't learn kids the basics but you need to memorise some zonal stuff (that you already know).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TinmansCulturedLeftPeg Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Edit: Just thought I would add this Micky Adams and other footie managers ← Why? As I said....tactics and formations are very much personalised.... According to our good friend Mr zookeeper..every single manager and every single coach prefers exactly the same formation under exactly the same instructions and their training ground methods are identical.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zookeeper Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 After you've got your badges it's all about individuality..it's pretty much a fact you muppet.... Stop playing pointless word games.... I said that you don't learn kids the basics but you need to memorise some zonal stuff (that you already know).... ← Sod Sven lets get the mensa top ten in to help out England! I think it's a bit more than memory and anyway that is digressing from the fact that you stated these courses don't have tactics in them! Why? As I said....tactics and formations are very much personalised.... According to our good friend Mr zookeeper..every single manager and every single coach prefers exactly the same formation under exactly the same instructions and their training ground methods are identical.... ← Umm, when did I say this. I said that they have been taught a variety of skills on these courses and further their knowledge from other people on these courses. Don't see where one style and identical training methods comes from. It's also just zookeeper, no mister in it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Ian M Posted August 10, 2004 Admin Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Don't worry zookeeper, this guy has serious personal issues, I don't think he even knows who he is. TinmansCulturedLeftPeg/Tinnions Cider Army/Royals4Ever/Tins4Gaffer......as well as some rather worryingly obsessive charcters from some Geordie message boards...... He'd also do well to learn a new word....."teach" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zookeeper Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 He'd also do well to learn a new word....."teach" ← I'm glad someone else said that! I though he might come running at me shouting "I'll learn ya" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.