The Times Top 50 UK Tax Contributors List

[lenred]

Firstly, this is not meant as a personal attack on Lansdown but just a point of interest.  

The Times’ top 50 highest UK tax contributors list has just come out and Peter Hargreaves from Hargreaves Lansdown sits at number 17 having personally contributed £65.8m to Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs last year from a personal wealth of £2.4billion. Denise Coates who leads the list - Stoke City’s owner contributed a mammoth £480 million in tax to the UK’s coffers this year alone.  

Lansdown has been a resident in Guernsey since 2013 and thus has saved himself hundreds of millions in tax contributions.  We always get told he spends extortionate amounts on our club, which compared to the man on the street he does of course, but even if he is in for over £100m at the moment, this pales into significance in what he has saved in tax alone over the last few years, and of course he will get some of of both all of his investment back some day. 

I’m not a fan of people living in tax havens I must admit and I have been a lot colder towards SL since is move to The Channel Islands, but it’s his life and his money and he can do as he chooses - he’s not breaking any laws. His and Hargreaves’ company and their employees will of course also have contributed vast amounts to the country’s kitty and SL uses that as a counter argument, but still I’d like to think if I were him I’d have paid my way in the UK. I’d have rather he contributed to the UK economy even if it meant less money invested in City tbh - I’d be prouder of our club’s owner. What are peoples thoughts on a slow Friday afternoon?! What would you have done given the choice? How do you feel seeing those amounts paid into the UK economy by others in a similar position to SL? 

Edited January 28, 2022 by lenred

[bcfc01]

I'd have done the same as SL, but in a warmer climate.

 

[lenred]

3 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

I'd have done the same as SL, but in a warmer climate.

 

Fair enough.  I imagine there will be plenty who agree.  I think there are a hell of a lot of factors to consider when you reach that level of wealth.  I get wound up enough about how my measly contributions are spent for example, let alone if you were contributing tens of millions. 

Edited January 28, 2022 by lenred
Typo

[bcfc01]

Just now, lenred said:

Fair enough.  I imagine there will be plenty who agree! I think there are a hell of a lot of factors to consider when you reach that level of wealth.  I get wound up enough about how my measly contributions are spent for example,  let alone if you were contributing tens of millions! 

I've just signed off my HMRC tax submissions and payment for 20/21.

Ouch, that hurt, could've done without that !

 

[BTRFTG]

Lansdown hasn't 'saved' (sic) tax. He pays what taxes fall due in whatever jurisdiction applies. That's how tax works . Do you pay taxes you're not liable to pay, do you make voluntary donations? 

As for 'tax havens', what they? Any jurisdiction with lower tax rates than the UK? If so, you're not a fan of much of the world's population. Where a foreign state has other sources of income such citizens aren't taxed, should they be admonished simply because here in the UK we are taxed?

[BTRFTG]

3 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

I've just signed off my HMRC tax submissions and payment for 20/21.

Ouch, that hurt, could've done without that !

 

Feel better that those on PAYE have no chance to defer suffering the hurt.... 

[Richard Head]

15 minutes ago, lenred said:

Fair enough.  I imagine there will be plenty who agree.  I think there are a hell of a lot of factors to consider when you reach that level of wealth.  I get wound up enough about how my measly contributions are spent for example, let alone if you were contributing tens of millions. 

“I like to pay taxes. With them, I buy civilisation.” Oliver Wendell Holmes Jnr

[lenred]

8 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

I've just signed off my HMRC tax submissions and payment for 20/21.

Ouch, that hurt, could've done without that !

 

I can’t imagine paying my contributions in one hit tbh. Must be a right Bastard! 

[Red-Robbo]

I always wonder why anyone wants to be a billionaire.  You can live an eternal life of luxury and accomplish all you want to do without accumulating such a big pile of wealth that your ancestors could live on it for hundreds of years. 

During the lockdown, I remember reading a Tweet saying that if you earned $5,000 a day, every day since 1492 when Columbus landed in the Americas, you still wouldn't have a (US) billion dollars or have earned as much as Jeff Bezos earns in a week. 

[BTRFTG]

1 minute ago, lenred said:

I can’t imagine paying my contributions in one hit tbh. Must be a right Bastard! 

Fear not, there are many, many advantages provided, that is, unlike Derby you haven't spent what should have been put aside to pay HMRC.

[marmite]

These are just like telephone nos to most of us. The man on the street could live comfortably on a small percentage of SLs wealth. If you have enough money that 10 million is insignificant , then you will never have enough. But it's Steves money and he's earned it and it's up to him how he spends it and protects it. I'm the same as bcfc01, go somewhere warmer.

[BTRFTG]

1 minute ago, Red-Robbo said:

I always wonder why anyone wants to be a billionaire.  You can live an eternal life of luxury and accomplish all you want to do without accumulating such a big pile of wealth that your ancestors could live on it for hundreds of years. 

During the lockdown, I remember reading a Tweet saying that if you earned $5,000 a day, every day since 1492 when Columbus landed in the Americas, you still wouldn't have a (US) billion dollars or have earned as much as Jeff Bezos earns in a week. 

Clue - it's NOT about the money.

It's about fame, attention, power and all those traits that drove such folks to accumulate such monies in the first place.

[Red-Robbo]

Just now, BTRFTG said:

Clue - it's NOT about the money.

It's about fame, attention, power and all those traits that drove such folks to accumulate such monies in the first place.

 

Probably true in most cases, but you do get some individuals for whom avarice is a way of life. Like Paul Getty insisting his house guests use pay phones when he was the UK's wealthiest resident. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Small point, Denise Coates isn't the Stoke owner.

Peter Coates and I guess maybe John Coates also, would although Bet365 sits above Stoke City Holdings in the corporate structure but Denise particularly and John have significant control (CH) of Bet365.

Club itself owned by Stoke City Holdings, Stoke City Holdings owned by Bet365- for whom the very top founder is Denise Coates.

Of that family, I reckon she's the most dynamic- best business brain. If she ran Stoke with their resources while they were in the PL, who knows where they would be today- probably better off than now! He's a good owner Peter Coates but don't think he is full of drive albeit they had some success.

Edited January 28, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[BTRFTG]

10 minutes ago, Richard Head said:

“I like to pay taxes. With them, I buy civilisation.” Oliver Wendell Holmes Jnr

Mind you, if you've no kids or family it's easier to leave ones estate to the government.

[lenred]

5 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Probably true in most cases, but you do get some individuals for whom avarice is a way of life. Like Paul Getty insisting his house guests use pay phones when he was the UK's wealthiest resident. 

I guess it takes a certain type of person to earn those numbers from scratch with certain traits as you mention elsewhere.  As my dad used to say the rich ‘don’t get rich writing cheques’! 

[BTRFTG]

4 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Probably true in most cases, but you do get some individuals for whom avarice is a way of life. Like Paul Getty insisting his house guests use pay phones when he was the UK's wealthiest resident. 

Again that's not money, it's power.

Rich folks are often cited as being 'tight' or 'mean' because they appear to have such behaviours but usually it's a means by which they are able to control folks over whom they have little control.

[ZiderEyed]

It's disgusting that Lansdown keeps his money offshore. Let's not be blinded by club colour. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

As for SL,

I'd have thought that directly- and indirectly through Hargreaves Lansdown, there will have been an awful lot of tax paid?

Move to Guernsey could be for CGT as he's pretty close to retirement now age wise and has sold his remaining interest in HL IIRC. Inheritance tax too perhaps?

[lenred]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

As for SL,

I'd have thought that directly- and indirectly through Hargreaves Lansdown, there will have been an awful lot of tax paid?

Move to Guernsey could be for CGT as he's pretty close to retirement now age wise and has sold his remaining interest in HL IIRC. Inheritance tax too perhaps?

Most definitely.  And of course the large number of employees they have and have had over the years would’ve contributed big numbers as well.   

[Red-Robbo]

Just now, BTRFTG said:

Again that's not money, it's power.

Rich folks are often cited as being 'tight' or 'mean' because they appear to have such behaviours but usually it's a means by which they are able to control folks over whom they have little control.

 

I think Getty actually used to like to sit down and physically count and recount his bank notes and other paper assets for fun in a Montgomery Burns style, so he might be an exception there!!  

The payphones thing is amazing though, isn't it?  It reminds me of a time years ago when my home had flooded and we stayed overnight with a friend of my then-wife. This friend's husband was a successful executive and they lived in this huge apartment  in a gated community near Barnes Bridge, which had a dedicated guest wing.  We were there about 28 hours before we were able to move back to a bit of the house and on letting the hubby know we were about to depart back for our home and thanking him for his hospitality, he presented us with a bill for £3.87 which he said represented our share of total utility costs for that period of time. Just to **** him off, I wrote a cheque for it! 

[lenred]

8 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said:

It's disgusting that Lansdown keeps his money offshore. Let's not be blinded by club colour. 

It’s definitely this point of view that I err towards, but there are plenty of nuances as well. He has no doubt contributed incredible amounts of money to the coffers before he left, all of which was generated from pretty much zero so I’m sure he will feel he has done his bit so to speak.  But it’s definitely a shame imho that he hasn’t continued to do so. 

Edited January 28, 2022 by lenred

[054123]

The number is irrelevant.

The percentage of your annual income is what’s important.

[BTRFTG]

14 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said:

It's disgusting that Lansdown keeps his money offshore. Let's not be blinded by club colour. 

Lansdown doesn't keep his 'money' offshore'. If he did he might keep it in the UK, that being outside his domicile. 

Do you think it disgusting that other overseas citizens decide not house their assets in the UK? Why should they?

[sglosbcfc]

32 minutes ago, lenred said:

I guess it takes a certain type of person to earn those numbers from scratch with certain traits as you mention elsewhere.  As my dad used to say the rich ‘don’t get rich writing cheques’! 

As a student I delivered Chinese food, the shop was on the edge of the largest council estate in the UK (in Staffordshire) and the other side was a very middle class area. The tips I received were much better from the council estate. In fact most of the plush houses didn't tip at all. Backs up your dad's point.

[Midred]

1 hour ago, bcfc01 said:

I've just signed off my HMRC tax submissions and payment for 20/21.

Ouch, that hurt, could've done without that !

 

Is that £20/21?

[BTRFTG]

17 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

I think Getty actually used to like to sit down and physically count and recount his bank notes and other paper assets for fun in a Montgomery Burns style, so he might be an exception there!!  

The payphones thing is amazing though, isn't it?  It reminds me of a time years ago when my home had flooded and we stayed overnight with a friend of my then-wife. This friend's husband was a successful executive and they lived in this huge apartment  in a gated community near Barnes Bridge, which had a dedicated guest wing.  We were there about 28 hours before we were able to move back to a bit of the house and on letting the hubby know we were about to depart back for our home and thanking him for his hospitality, he presented us with a bill for £3.87 which he said represented our share of total utility costs for that period of time. Just to **** him off, I wrote a cheque for it! 

It's very British to link 'wealth' and 'class' save there's no direct correlation. I've met a few rich, mega rich and apparently mega rich individuals and the first thing you note is whether they're 'old' or 'new' money.  The former are often hard to spot, some have no pretentions, a few you'd feel like giving your last fiver. Most ooze class because they grow up appreciating constraint, their privilege and bear the responsibility of their position. New or apparent money on the other hand tends to come with entitlement ostentation and a distinct lack of class. There are 'new' types with class but these tend to be self-made, from unprivileged but supportive backgrounds, who appreciate their roots.

I mentioned in another thread I've dined with Maxwell (apparent wealth, wholly lacking class.) I also once dined with Murdoch ( who many incorrectly believe inherited his fortune from his father - he's pretty much self-made,) and a more erudite, pleasant and deferential Billionaire you couldn't wish to meet. Class act.

14 minutes ago, Midred said:

Is that £20/21?

Yes in the UK save Derby, where its 15/16....

[Midred]

What galls me is the millionaires who pay their accountants far more than the average person earns to enable them to pay as little tax as  possible.

It's amazing how many loop holes are left in the tax laws for said persons to exploit!

[Red-Robbo]

1 minute ago, BTRFTG said:

It's very British to link 'wealth' and 'class' save there's no direct correlation. I've met a few rich, mega rich and apparently mega rich individuals and the first thing you note is whether they're 'old' or 'new' money.  The former are often hard to spot, some have no pretentions, a few you'd feel like giving your last fiver. Most ooze class because they grow up appreciating constraint, their privilege and bear the responsibility of their position. New or apparent money on the other hand tends to come with entitlement ostentation and a distinct lack of class

 

Made me think of....

 

[Maesknoll Red]

2 minutes ago, Midred said:

What galls me is the millionaires who pay their accountants far more than the average person earns to enable them to pay as little tax as  possible.

It's amazing how many loop holes are left in the tax laws for said persons to exploit!

It’s not just millionaires…… plenty of people with far lower incomes employ accountants to minimise their tax bills.