The Times Top 50 UK Tax Contributors List

[Midred]

3 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

It's very British to link 'wealth' and 'class' save there's no direct correlation. I've met a few rich, mega rich and apparently mega rich individuals and the first thing you note is whether they're 'old' or 'new' money.  The former are often hard to spot, some have no pretentions, a few you'd feel like giving your last fiver. Most ooze class because they grow up appreciating constraint, their privilege and bear the responsibility of their position. New or apparent money on the other hand tends to come with entitlement ostentation and a distinct lack of class. There are 'new' types with class but these tend to be self-made, from unprivileged but supportive backgrounds, who appreciate their roots.

I mentioned in another thread I've dined with Maxwell (apparent wealth, wholly lacking class.) I also once dined with Murdoch ( who many incorrectly believe inherited his fortune from his father - he's pretty much self-made,) and a more erudite, pleasant and deferential Billionaire you couldn't wish to meet. Class act.

Yes in the UK save Derby, where its 15/16....

Weren't the Maxwell's penniless in their own names - especially where legal aid was required!

[Welcome To The Jungle]

Seems only the rich are able to not pay the taxes the rest of us do. One of the reasons I don't go to City anymore is because our owner is a tax dodging narcissist who doesn't deserve to be a custodian 

[bcfc01]

23 minutes ago, Midred said:

Is that £20/21?

I wish 

[BTRFTG]

1 minute ago, Midred said:

What galls me is the millionaires who pay their accountants far more than the average person earns to enable them to pay as little tax as  possible.

It's amazing how many loop holes are left in the tax laws for said persons to exploit!

Contrary to the tabloid press view of the world the rich don't pay folks to create savings, rather the rich are sold tax avoidance schemes by big business, making themselves rich in the process. Using a comparison site is pretty much the same principle.

It's also the case that tax legislation is nigh on impossible to draft such it covers all eventuality with common interpretation. 'Loop holes' only exist once those who seek them define and create them.

[BTRFTG]

10 minutes ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

Seems only the rich are able to not pay the taxes the rest of us do. One of the reasons I don't go to City anymore is because our owner is a tax dodging narcissist who doesn't deserve to be a custodian 

So what taxes does Landown (in your parlance) 'dodge'? Go on, what have you uncovered?

I think you'll find he pays all taxes demanded and unlike Morris that makes him an upstanding  custodian.

[Bristol Rob]

1 hour ago, ZiderEyed said:

It's disgusting that Lansdown keeps his money offshore. Let's not be blinded by club colour. 

Worse than that. He keeps himself and his wife offshore as well.

It's almost as if he pays tax where he lives. Shocking stuff.

Suppose we'll have to just make do with the 1000s of jobs he created for people who do live and pay tax in the UK.

[cheese]

2 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Worse than that. He keeps himself and his wife offshore as well.

It's almost as if he pays tax where he lives. Shocking stuff.

Suppose we'll have to just make do with the 1000s of jobs he created for people who do live and pay tax in the UK.

Don't forget to doff your cap and say "Thank you guv'" when you see him.

[Bristol Rob]

Just now, cheese said:

Don't forget to doff your cap and say "Thank you guv'" when you see him.

Absolutely.

Especially given that if he was here, his contribution would have been cared for as if it was their own by the government, 4.2bil of furlough fraud? Meg. Track and Trace? Bargain. Half a mill to fly to Aus? Cheap.

[cheese]

1 minute ago, Bristol Rob said:

Absolutely.

Especially given that if he was here, his contribution would have been cared for as if it was their own by the government, 4.2bil of furlough fraud? Meg. Track and Trace? Bargain. Half a mill to fly to Aus? Cheap.

Don't get me started on he thieves and spivs that are laughingly called the Government and Right Honourables!

[Red-Robbo]

5 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Worse than that. He keeps himself and his wife offshore as well.

It's almost as if he pays tax where he lives. Shocking stuff.

Suppose we'll have to just make do with the 1000s of jobs he created for people who do live and pay tax in the UK.

 

I employ people, but let's be clear here, I employ them because they are necessary for my business to operate, not as some altruistic scheme to benefit the community. I pay them enough to retain their services and a bit more so they know I'm a fabulously nice guy and don't write nasty graffiti about me in the bogs.  

Lansdown deserves plaudits for co-creating a globally mega-successful business and retaining in interest in Bristol, his city of birth. I don't particularly give anyone  credit for how many people they hire.  If employing people means you are great, then the government are the most wonderfully benevolent people you could cite. 

[swanker]

1 hour ago, Richard Head said:

“I like to pay taxes. With them, I buy civilisation.” Oliver Wendell Holmes Jnr

I can remember watching a documentary about tax avoidance. Sir Phillip Green apparently earned more money one year than any person in the history of the UK. Over a £Billion. He paid no tax? 
 

[swanker]

27 minutes ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

Seems only the rich are able to not pay the taxes the rest of us do. One of the reasons I don't go to City anymore is because our owner is a tax dodging narcissist who doesn't deserve to be a custodian 

Who do you bank with?

[Bristol Rob]

3 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

I employ people, but let's be clear here, I employ them because they are necessary for my business to operate, not as some altruistic scheme to benefit the community. I pay them enough to retain their services and a bit more so they know I'm a fabulously nice guy and don't write nasty graffiti about me in the bogs.  

Lansdown deserves plaudits for co-creating a globally mega-successful business and retaining in interest in Bristol, his city of birth. I don't particularly give anyone  credit for how many people they hire.  If employing people means you are great, then the government are the most wonderfully benevolent people you could cite. 

Didn't think he held a role with HL anymore! I assumed he had left years ago, having built a company that created a lot of jobs.

[Olé]

4 hours ago, lenred said:

I can’t imagine paying my contributions in one hit tbh. Must be a right Bastard! 

It doesn't work like that anymore I don't think unless @bcfc01has got very lucky. Instead of paying it all at end of the year they make you pay two sums 'on account' at the start of the year and in the middle of the year to cover the tax due at the end of the year, and because the number likely isn't known, they ask for what they guess it will be which unless you're on a proper fiddle is far far more painful than simply having the predictability of PAYE.

It's like saying give me some money now until you can work out later what you owe. I do accept the fairness of it (why should some people get cash tax free for a year) but pay now calculate later feels a bit like a mugging.

As this is all a bit non-football we should never have sold Eliasson and if we had been able to pair him with Djuric we'd be in the Champions League by now.

[Tookster]

Not many billionaires are going to fit into an ethical mindset, when it comes to money. They don't get to that position by luck.

I grew up in a rugby family and used to go to watch the rugby at the Mem (looks to have gone backwards since the 80s) :laugh:. In that time, I used to pine for a day when someone invested in the city's sport, as in a biased way, I believed that it was a deserving city.

To now have Bristol Sport, built out of a Bristol based company that employs a lot of people, I think is fantastic and SL should be commended.  The income taxes paid by the workforce and those that sit on the bench (or Simpson) will be huge.  It is not money coming from Russia or Middle East, which can only be seen as positive.

COYR

[cidercity1987]

6 hours ago, bcfc01 said:

I've just signed off my HMRC tax submissions and payment for 20/21.

Ouch, that hurt, could've done without that !

 

Based on your income which started to be earned 21 months ago, brilliant amount of tax free income in your bank account for that long

6 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

Feel better that those on PAYE have no chance to defer suffering the hurt.... 

Correct 

5 hours ago, Maesknoll Red said:

It’s not just millionaires…… plenty of people with far lower incomes employ accountants to minimise their tax bills.

Correct

2 hours ago, Olé said:

It doesn't work like that anymore I don't think unless @bcfc01has got very lucky. Instead of paying it all at end of the year they make you pay two sums 'on account' at the start of the year and in the middle of the year to cover the tax due at the end of the year, and because the number likely isn't known, they ask for what they guess it will be which unless you're on a proper fiddle is far far more painful than simply having the predictability of PAYE.

It's like saying give me some money now until you can work out later what you owe. I do accept the fairness of it (why should some people get cash tax free for a year) but pay now calculate later feels a bit like a mugging.

As this is all a bit non-football we should never have sold Eliasson and if we had been able to pair him with Djuric we'd be in the Champions League by now.

Payment on account still 9 months after you've started earning it, great 

Edited January 28, 2022 by cidercity1987

[BTRFTG]

2 hours ago, Olé said:

It doesn't work like that anymore I don't think unless @bcfc01has got very lucky. Instead of paying it all at end of the year they make you pay two sums 'on account' at the start of the year and in the middle of the year to cover the tax due at the end of the year, and because the number likely isn't known, they ask for what they guess it will be which unless you're on a proper fiddle is far far more painful than simply having the predictability of PAYE.

It's like saying give me some money now until you can work out later what you owe. I do accept the fairness of it (why should some people get cash tax free for a year) but pay now calculate later feels a bit like a mugging.

As this is all a bit non-football we should never have sold Eliasson and if we had been able to pair him with Djuric we'd be in the Champions League by now.

It's been that way for some time but lest not forget it still affords the best part of a year sitting on monies those on PAYE will already have paid. And seriously if you aren't disciplined enough to manage that you really shouldn't be self-employed.

Ditto, if you know your circumstances are likely to change you don't have to pay the estimated sum in advance.

Edited January 28, 2022 by BTRFTG

[BTRFTG]

4 hours ago, swanker said:

I can remember watching a documentary about tax avoidance. Sir Phillip Green apparently earned more money one year than any person in the history of the UK. Over a £Billion. He paid no tax? 
 

That's because I think the tale you recount (incorrectly) is he didn't earn a penny hence paid little or no tax.

His wife on the other hand was paid an enormous sum in dividends which because she was domiciled in Monaco led her to pay no tax.

The moral of that tale for those who think the solution to fiscal shortfall is to raise tax is those that have the means so to do have no issue in moving their wealth offshore, leaving  all us poor sods domiciled here to pick up the full cost. Google 'Laffer Curve' and you'll get the picture.

[Bar BS3]

10 hours ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

Seems only the rich are able to not pay the taxes the rest of us do. One of the reasons I don't go to City anymore is because our owner is a tax dodging narcissist who doesn't deserve to be a custodian 

I bet he directly contributes an awful lot more to the UK coffers than you do..? 

[YGBjammy]

If I was a billionaire would I have an off shore residence? Hell yes. Would it be in Guernsey? Hell no.

[Bedred31]

I’ve spent a lot of time on Jersey and Guernsey over the years- never as a resident though. They are beautiful, surprisingly varied, genuinely relaxed; there is no paid parking on Guernsey for example. Politics of all kinds is virtually non- existent. They are also small- very very small. Even for someone like me from a North Somerset village. I’ve never really understood why billionaires go and seemingly stay there. The largest houses are pretty well bolted down by centuries old aristocracy. The large luxury market is limited and at every level several steps below the mainland equivalent ( though at much greater cost). Jersey has about 500 yards of road that is not subject to a 30 mph speed limit, which rather nullifies the purchase of a Lamborghini. It’s always struck me that to be a Channel Island tax exile you need a general lack of imagination as well as an understandable desire to avoid paying millions of tax. After all, you only have one life.

[BTRFTG]

18 hours ago, Midred said:

Weren't the Maxwell's penniless in their own names - especially where legal aid was required!

Kevin & Ian (the other 5 surviving siblings weren't implicated,) were declared bankrupt once MGN tangled web collapsed, Kevin's investment vehicle carrying the bulk of the debt. The Crown alleged they both had beneficial ownership of a number of assets but as this couldn't definitively be established for Legal Aid calculation had to be ignored. NB: the Board of Trade also held an inquiry into Mirror Group which became a test case as a point of Law. Kevin refused to participate unless legal representation was provided on the basis he might incriminate himself which might then be used in a criminal prosecution against him. Court ruled those obligated to submit to inquiry should be given representation if unable to afford their own.

Of course both Kevin and Ian were (somehow and to this day it remains a mystery,) found Not Guilty of charges levelled.

 

[Red-Robbo]

18 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

Didn't think he held a role with HL anymore! I assumed he had left years ago, having built a company that created a lot of jobs.

 

I think he's just a minor shareholder now, but the company only employs people to make profits, as it would when Steve was co-owner.

Both he and I live off the surplus value created by others' labour.  Which is fine. Nothing wrong with that. He put in the hard yards to build to that.

I just don't credit entrepreneurs for "creating jobs". You employ the minimum people you think is necessary to run your business.  The fact the employees pay 20% or 40% or 45% of their income in tax doesn't absolve you as an owner from paying yours.

I'm not slagging Steve Lansdown off for choosing to leave England for tax purposes.  If I left, keeping more of my money would be very low down the reasons I'd have for making such a move.  But maybe that's why I'm not as successful. 

[sh1t_ref_again]

The irony is, it seems to be the people that moan most about the rich not paying enough tax see no problem with, working whilst claiming, being paid cash in hand, buying and selling without declaring it as income, claiming benefits not entitled too

But all of that's fine as they have not got as much money as someone who is rich.

[lenred]

3 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

The irony is, it seems to be the people that moan most about the rich not paying enough tax see no problem with, working whilst claiming, being paid cash in hand, buying and selling without declaring it as income, claiming benefits not entitled too

But all of that's fine as they have not got as much money as someone who is rich.

Any evidence of that? Imagine most of the people who do the things you outline couldn’t give a toss about others tax affairs tbh. 

[Leveller]

25 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

The irony is, it seems to be the people that moan most about the rich not paying enough tax see no problem with, working whilst claiming, being paid cash in hand, buying and selling without declaring it as income, claiming benefits not entitled too

But all of that's fine as they have not got as much money as someone who is rich.

Exactly! I’m no Tory but it makes me laugh when my rampantly left wing, Boris hating relatives hire a building firm who want paying in cash to fiddle the VAT!