Final Position

[MattWSM]

Since back in Championship.

Position/Points/Manager (end of season)

By position:
1. 2018-19 --- 08th, 70, LJ
2. 2017-18 --- 11th, 67, LJ
3. 2019-20 --- 12th, 63, LJ
4. 2016-17 --- 17th, 54, LJ
5. 2021-22 --- 17th, 53,《 Avg, NP
6. 2015-16 --- 18th, 52, LJ
7. 2020-21 --- 19th, 51, NP

 

[A Horse With No Name]

And ?

[BCFCGav]

19/20 ended with Holden in charge.

[Bar BS3]

I'm not sure what your post is trying to illustrate - but it's shows that all those who wanted LJ gone and were crying out for an experienced manager - it's really not that straightforward. 

There have certainly been some signs of improvement recently - but it's sldo impossible to take any 5+ game spell of NP's time in charge and be satisfied with the return from it. 

Things may be building, and I hope they are - but let's be Frank - NP's results record has been pretty woeful. 

We'll be safe this season, but I don't get people optimism about the next year or 2.

When something looks good, it's generally lucky (Wiemann or semenyo hitting form) 

Our continued defensive weakness is a concern tha. Really should have been addressed in a year. 

[ExiledAjax]

As if you're attributing 2020/21 to NP.

[luke_bristol]

The oh-so familiar pattern for us in the championship, consecutive seasons of decline continue until relegation and we start all over again in League 1. Hoping NP can buck the trend

[MattWSM]

53 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

I'm not sure what your post is trying to illustrate - but it's shows that all those who wanted LJ gone and were crying out for an experienced manager - it's really not that straightforward. 

There have certainly been some signs of improvement recently - but it's sldo impossible to take any 5+ game spell of NP's time in charge and be satisfied with the return from it. 

Things may be building, and I hope they are - but let's be Frank - NP's results record has been pretty woeful. 

We'll be safe this season, but I don't get people optimism about the next year or 2.

When something looks good, it's generally lucky (Wiemann or semenyo hitting form) 

Our continued defensive weakness is a concern tha. Really should have been addressed in a year. 

not sure either, was just looking at the last few seasons

[054123]

17/18 we finished 11th!!

I don’t think people realise just exactly how bad that is in context. 

Listening to Rob Newman talk about watching us against his then club Man City and basically saying how on earth did that team not win automatic promotion.

I’m still in on the current plan but there has to further improvement. If come October there are still the same problems with the team then you have to consider change.

[054123]

7 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

I'm not sure what your post is trying to illustrate - but it's shows that all those who wanted LJ gone and were crying out for an experienced manager - it's really not that straightforward. 

There have certainly been some signs of improvement recently - but it's sldo impossible to take any 5+ game spell of NP's time in charge and be satisfied with the return from it. 

Things may be building, and I hope they are - but let's be Frank - NP's results record has been pretty woeful. 

We'll be safe this season, but I don't get people optimism about the next year or 2.

When something looks good, it's generally lucky (Wiemann or semenyo hitting form) 

Our continued defensive weakness is a concern tha. Really should have been addressed in a year. 

I would have changed Johnson at the end of 18/19. To my mind that is the mistake. We waited too long.

[Bris Red]

25 minutes ago, 054123 said:

I would have changed Johnson at the end of 18/19. To my mind that is the mistake. We waited too long.

I’ve said the exact same thing numerous times over the last couple of years on this forum. Lansdown and the board dithered around for a season too long with Johnson and the double glazed salesman. A Pearson type at the end of 18/19 season is what was needed.

[A Horse With No Name]

8 hours ago, luke_bristol said:

The oh-so familiar pattern for us in the championship, consecutive seasons of decline continue until relegation and we start all over again in League 1. Hoping NP can buck the trend

But its not consecutive because the list doesnt run in date order. I fail to see what the poster is trying to say here.

[Wiltshire robin]

8 hours ago, luke_bristol said:

The oh-so familiar pattern for us in the championship, consecutive seasons of decline continue until relegation and we start all over again in League 1. Hoping NP can buck the trend

So true but overall it’s the owner who needs to buck the trend . Had been in charge for two decades now would thought he would of got it right by now . 

[Major Isewater]

8 minutes ago, Wiltshire robin said:

So true but overall it’s the owner who needs to buck the trend . Had been in charge for two decades now would thought he would of got it right by now . 

Too right , Lansdown needs to get his tracksuit on and get down the HPC.

[luke_bristol]

39 minutes ago, The Horse With No Name said:

But its not consecutive because the list doesnt run in date order. I fail to see what the poster is trying to say here.

Few too many whiskeys for me last night

[IAmNick]

You'd expect a manager to be on an increasingly upwards trajectory, or at least out performing expectations (wage budget etc) the longer they're at a club.

They have time to field a squad entirely of their choice of players, their philosophy fully ingrained in the team, solid relationships with the staff (recruitment, physios) and so on. For a new manager you're working with the set up which contributed to someone else losing their job - to varying degrees of course.

It's not fair to compare a first or even second season with someone's forth or fifth, and that's not even getting into the money available/remit in our case either.

You could take Pearson's first full season being on track with Lee's first full one as a good sign in that case, surely?

The counter could be that we weren't going anywhere at all in five years. One seasons challenging the playoffs when the chips were down.

Edited February 6, 2022 by IAmNick

[Swede]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but it's a classic example of our owner taking a back seat and allowing someone he thought he could trust to ruin everything and set us back five years.

Paradoxically it's lead him to appoint the correct man for the role!

[MattWSM]

2 hours ago, The Horse With No Name said:

But its not consecutive because the list doesnt run in date order. I fail to see what the poster is trying to say here.

By year:

2015-16 --- 18th, 52, LJ

2016-17 --- 17th, 54, LJ

2017-18 --- 11th, 67, LJ

2018-19 --- 08th, 70, LJ

2019-20 --- 12th, 63, LJ

2020-21 --- 19th, 51, NP

2021-22 --- 17th, 53《 Avg, NP

 

[eardun]

Got to give Pearson time in my view. In his first full season, he has been under severe financial constraints and there was a mass clear out of players at the start of the season. We’ll never know for sure of course, but other managers may have taken us down this season.

[A Horse With No Name]

1 hour ago, MattWSM said:

By year:

2015-16 --- 18th, 52, LJ

2016-17 --- 17th, 54, LJ

2017-18 --- 11th, 67, LJ

2018-19 --- 08th, 70, LJ

2019-20 --- 12th, 63, LJ

2020-21 --- 19th, 51, NP

2021-22 --- 17th, 53《 Avg, NP

 

But is this an anti NP post or an anti LJ one. Pearsons first two seasons are pretty much identical to Johnsons.

[Davefevs]

4 hours ago, 054123 said:

I would have changed Johnson at the end of 18/19. To my mind that is the mistake. We waited too long.

I’d have got rid of Mark Ashton

2 hours ago, IAmNick said:

You'd expect a manager to be on an increasingly upwards trajectory, or at least out performing expectations (wage budget etc) the longer they're at a club.

They have time to field a squad entirely of their choice of players, their philosophy fully ingrained in the team, solid relationships with the staff (recruitment, physios) and so on. For a new manager you're working with the set up which contributed to someone else losing their job - to varying degrees of course.

It's not fair to compare a first or even second season with someone's forth or fifth, and that's not even getting into the money available/remit in our case either.

You could take Pearson's first full season being on track with Lee's first full one as a good sign in that case, surely?

The counter could be that we weren't going anywhere at all in five years. One seasons challenging the playoffs when the chips were down.

And I guess you could say that 18/19, especially the good run we went on was with his squad.  Think it was pretty much just Pack from the old era that was starting regularly.  Happy to be corrected.  We finished 8th…our only top third finish.  That was the peak.

1 hour ago, MattWSM said:

By year:

2015-16 --- 18th, 52, LJ

2016-17 --- 17th, 54, LJ

2017-18 --- 11th, 67, LJ

2018-19 --- 08th, 70, LJ

2019-20 --- 12th, 63, LJ

2020-21 --- 19th, 51, NP

2021-22 --- 17th, 53《 Avg, NP

 

The frustrating thing under LJ was that we got ourselves into good positions in the league, often in the top 6, before falling away.

Thats quite a number of weeks in the top 6 across those seasons.

Playing Devil’s advocate, had he been bust followed by boom (rather than boom followed by bust), would he be seen in the same light?  For example if we spent all season 16th-19th before a late run saw us get mid-table / top half, what would our views be then?

Ultimately the league is 46 games, the closest we got was 8th…what was the closest we got in terms of points…was it 4 pts?

I think he did a pretty decent job purely in football terms (results more than performances in many respects), but I also think he was incredibly well backed, irresponsibly backed in many respects.  And we are paying for that now.

He will always live in our heads though!

[Red-Robbo]

1 hour ago, MattWSM said:

By year:

2015-16 --- 18th, 52, LJ

2016-17 --- 17th, 54, LJ

2017-18 --- 11th, 67, LJ

2018-19 --- 08th, 70, LJ

2019-20 --- 12th, 63, LJ

2020-21 --- 19th, 51, NP

2021-22 --- 17th, 53《 Avg, NP

 

 

Simply illustrates what people have been saying. We are pretty mediocre, but not as awful as last year.  With a total absence of transfer funds tying Pearson's hands, I'm not sure why anyone expects anything more.

At the start of the season, some fella put an end season predictor poll on here. I went for the 14-18th option and still see no reason to doubt that choice.

[Kingswood Robin]

1 hour ago, MattWSM said:

By year:

2015-16 --- 18th, 52, LJ

2016-17 --- 17th, 54, LJ

2017-18 --- 11th, 67, LJ

2018-19 --- 08th, 70, LJ

2019-20 --- 12th, 63, LJ

2020-21 --- 19th, 51, NP

2021-22 --- 17th, 53《 Avg, NP

 

If we follow that trend, we could be in for another 17/18 next season (hopefully without the collapse).  

I'm not saying we're promotion contenders at the moment, but how much better would we look if we could defend crosses? A few good signings could make all the difference. The big thing for me is that I'm now enjoying some of the games as opposed to none of them !

[Son of Fred]

2 hours ago, Swede said:

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but it's a classic example of our owner taking a back seat and allowing someone he thought he could trust to ruin everything and set us back five years.

Paradoxically it's lead him to appoint the correct man for the role!

Yes,the correct man with one arm strapped firmly behind his back...

Isn't life so often this way..

It's I think obvious to see what Nigel is working with currently,and clear to see what he is implementing throughout the club.

It would serve us all well to display patience.

I'm hoping the penny has finally dropped in proper for SL (at long last) & that he doesn't at some point along the road have a head fart & revert to kind!!!

[Ivorguy]

We still are what we have always been in my 70+ years of following City, a League 1 club with occasional stays in Championship.  To turn us into a championship club with occasional promotions to Premier remains just a daydream.  
 

The club needs a significant gear change in attitudes and management (in widest sense) if we are to alter our profile.  As the seasons in the old First Division are mere history for an increasing number they appear a mere blip, however enjoyable they largely were, in our story of mediocrity.

 

 

[054123]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

6 hours ago, 054123 said:

 

I’d have got rid of Mark Ashton

It’s a really good point. Something needed to change.

[Swede]

Whatever one's view is of the former CEO, if he had done such a good job then we would've been in a far better place then we currently are.

As a second tier club spending £5M plus wages on a player who then is allowed to run his contract down and then leaves for nothing still leaves a sour taste in my mouth let alone SL's.

Fortunately with NP now in charge we should never be in that position again.

For this season, where we are now is probably the highest place we will be & I wouldn't be surprised if we were to drop a couple of places given the amount of more games we've played.

I do see gradual improvement which will only improve once some more players are offloaded and replaced over the close season.

 

[CHIPLEY RED]

1 hour ago, Swede said:

Whatever one's view is of the former CEO, if he had done such a good job then we would've been in a far better place then we currently are.

As a second tier club spending £5M plus wages on a player who then is allowed to run his contract down and then leaves for nothing still leaves a sour taste in my mouth let alone SL's.

Fortunately with NP now in charge we should never be in that position again.

For this season, where we are now is probably the highest place we will be & I wouldn't be surprised if we were to drop a couple of places given the amount of more games we've played.

I do see gradual improvement which will only improve once some more players are offloaded and replaced over the close season.

 

I think we will drop a couple more places and were it not for points deductions we would be staring a relegation battle in the face. Yesterday was awful so I'm not sure where the improvement is. Yes we can pull the odd good result out the bag but cannot put 2 good games together and most often can't put a good 90mins together.

I don't know what the answer is and I'm not calling for Pearson to go but he does need to be accountable for the performances on the pitch. I'm fed up with constantly blaming previous managers and Mark Ashton. We will stay up this year but I worry for next season. NP just hasn't had the impact I expected. 

The crowd started to turn yesterday, Boos at half time, I want my money back, We're f_____g s___t, cheering a shot on target. Not good times at. BS3

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, CHIPLEY RED said:

I think we will drop a couple more places and were it not for points deductions we would be staring a relegation battle in the face. Yesterday was awful so I'm not sure where the improvement is. Yes we can pull the odd good result out the bag but cannot put 2 good games together and most often can't put a good 90mins together.

I don't know what the answer is and I'm not calling for Pearson to go but he does need to be accountable for the performances on the pitch. I'm fed up with constantly blaming previous managers and Mark Ashton. We will stay up this year but I worry for next season. NP just hasn't had the impact I expected. 

The crowd started to turn yesterday, Boos at half time, I want my money back, We're f_____g s___t, cheering a shot on target. Not good times at. BS3

As it would stand (upside down):

24 Barnsley 14

23 Peterborough 20

22 Reading 28 (+6)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

21 Cardiff 29

20 Hull 32

19 Birmingham 33

18 City 34

17 Swansea 35

16 Derby 36 (+21)

I guess that makes Wednesday a 6-pointer.

For me the answer is two-fold:

1. patience
2. realistic expectations

Nige hasn’t really got enough options to shuffle the pack.  I do thing this summer we will see a slightly different emphasis in recruitment and it will be young, but robust, albeit with an understanding of the demands of a season of championship football.  I think he knows that already in terms of his expectations of Atkinson we’re not as high as the fans.  I guess he hoped to have Baker and Kalas available to bed Atkinson in.

I think the intentions with the likes of King, Simpson were well intended, but 6 months in we can see they haven’t worked out.  I’m sure he will reflect on that.  Availability has been better than last season, that’s good, but it’s also with a smaller squad, so exposed at times.

I do think it (recruitment) needs to be better.

I’m right behind Nige, but that doesn’t mean he’s not made mistakes either.  But boy, do some jump on them very quickly.  He’s done good things too.

 

[MattWSM]

5 hours ago, The Horse With No Name said:

But is this an anti NP post or an anti LJ one. Pearsons first two seasons are pretty much identical to Johnsons.

neither

 

[MJP3]

15 hours ago, The Horse With No Name said:

But is this an anti NP post or an anti LJ one. Pearsons first two seasons are pretty much identical to Johnsons.

 

9 hours ago, MattWSM said:

neither

 

Sorry Matt, I don't understand.
Don't you know where you are? You must be anti something.
We need to know.
How do you feel about Cats? Do you hate Cats?

 

Edited February 7, 2022 by MJP3