bbew Posted February 11, 2022 Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, MarcusX said: Are you suggesting science doesn’t change? They initially thought covid might be passed by touch, that’s why we washed our hands 100x a day, covered them in sanitised and washed everything that came into our homes. Science and understanding changes. Also two “scientists” opinions don’t necessarily hold the same weight, especially if one side of the argument has hundreds of scientists and the other only have a few - who may have ulterior motives I'm saying don't vilify people who may have a different view, as when the science changes their view might have been right. Slightly off topic but people were sensored for saying covid may have started in a lab. They were accused of fake news, spreading conspiracy theories. Now the mainstream view is that is a likely cause of where covid originated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted February 11, 2022 Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 2 hours ago, chinapig said: Another basic point some people still don't get. Like saying the majority of people killed in road accidents were wearing seat belts therefore seat belts don't work. I understand approximately 15% of UK motor accidents in 2020 were caused by 'drunk' driving. By extension, the remaining 85% were caused by drivers who were sober. It follows, therefore, that the old adage of 'one for the road' is quite sound.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never to the dark side Posted February 11, 2022 Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 A joke that Dave Allen the comedian(ask your parents,sorry,ask your grand parents) cracked a long time ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wealwayseatcheese Posted February 11, 2022 Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 (edited) 13 hours ago, bcfc01 said: Would you have said this at the start of the season ? Just asking. Most definitely. I have always said that there is a great talent in Semenyo but it’s taken longer to break though than anticipated. Weimann does what it says on the tin. Hardworking and scores goals. Edited February 11, 2022 by Wealwayseatcheese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted February 11, 2022 Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, bbew said: The fact there are equal studies that show they don't make much difference. Throughout the whole pandemic it has been 'follow the science' but which science? For every scientist who says one thing, there is another scientist who will give a different opinion. Some may get more press time but does that make them more worthy. You’re moving the goalposts a bit using road deaths. To date the discussion has been about catching it, not dying from it. There’s fairly sound evidence that boosters reduce deaths by 90+%. Do you doubt that? If you want to use a road analogy, we have measures to prevent accidents happening in the first place - driving on the left for instance. The fact that accidents still happen doesn’t mean that those measures have prevented other accidents. Remember we were told the science said masks make little difference and didn't need to wear then, then we told to wear them despite no new science. The principal reason makes use wasn’t encouraged early on was not medical, it was political. There weren’t enough masks. Also, cloth masks are next to useless. Always have been. Still are. Surgical and ffp2 masks ARE effective; why would surgeons, health staff etc wear routinely - not just covid related - if not? We were told the vaccine will stop you getting covid (by Biden and CDC), now we now that is not true. Im not aware of any suggestion by Biden, CDC, or their equivalents elsewhere that vaccines would stop you getting covid. They have said that there’s a good chance they will, that they will make it less likely etc etc, but no-one has ever claimed that 100% they will stop you getting it. We were told lockdowns will save hundreds of thousands of lives, now studies show they reduced the death rate by just 0.2%. That study, by three economists, has been widely criticised by a fair number of medical experts. One study shows vaccination immunity is best, another that immunity after infection is best. But what they also show consistently is that achieving that immunity without dying or getting seriously ill first is more likely via vaccination than by catching it. We are given models that there could be 6,000 deaths a day without another lockdown, then (thankfully) they are completely wrong. They are models. That’s the point of them. They model different scenarios. Different types of lockdown. Other measures alongside that. One modelled the removal of all restrictions, but that never happened. So there’s no way of saying that it was ‘wrong’. Really none of us know. Agree. And neither do scientists. Medical science isn’t an exact science, least of all with a previously unknown virus. So yes things change. But that’s not a reason for making the best judgements we can based on the best evidence at the time. People seem to pick their opinion and get evidence to suit. I just feel labeling people 'anti vax' is just the latest way to divide people, especially when the majority of the 'anti vaxers' are not nutty loons but just genuine people with concerns of taking a drug with no medium or long term safety data (which I know is impossible to produce so doesn't mean it is not safe). They need encouragement to get vaccinated, not punishment and condemnation. Im not sure about compulsory vaccination, but those who choose not to get vaccination need to realise that there are consequences to that decision. That’s not about ‘punishment’, but just about taking responsibility for the decision they’ve made and the impact that has in society. Comments above. Great point by @Norn Iron above though…..loooks like NW may have been vaccinated after all and we’ve got into this debate on entirely the wrong assumption!! Edited February 11, 2022 by italian dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red panda Posted February 11, 2022 Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 8 hours ago, bbew said: The fact there are equal studies that show they don't make much difference. Throughout the whole pandemic it has been 'follow the science' but which science? For every scientist who says one thing, there is another scientist who will give a different opinion. Some may get more press time but does that make them more worthy. Remember we were told the science said masks make little difference and didn't need to wear then, then we told to wear them despite no new science. We were told the vaccine will stop you getting covid (by Biden and CDC), now we now that is not true. We were told lockdowns will save hundreds of thousands of lives, now studies show they reduced the death rate by just 0.2%. One study shows vaccination immunity is best, another that immunity after infection is best. We are given models that there could be 6,000 deaths a day without another lockdown, then (thankfully) they are completely wrong. Really none of us know. People seem to pick their opinion and get evidence to suit. I just feel labeling people 'anti vax' is just the latest way to divide people, especially when the majority of the 'anti vaxers' are not nutty loons but just genuine people with concerns of taking a drug with no medium or long term safety data (which I know is impossible to produce so doesn't mean it is not safe). They need encouragement to get vaccinated, not punishment and condemnation. This is how science works. There's a lot of randomness involved, so some studies are always going to deliver misleading results because of this (e.g. the people selected at random to receive a particular drug in one study might just happen to be healthier on average than those who get another drug or a placebo). So we always need to be careful giving too much weight to just "one study" (especially if it's being reported in the Daily Mail or on social media). Scientists address this by aggregating the results of as many studies as possible. Naysayers will often be able to find "one study" that gives a different result, but that doesn't mean the consensus established by the overall body of evidence is wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjak Posted February 11, 2022 Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 22 hours ago, bbew said: Is the vaccine fantastic? yes. Do I agree people should get vaccinated? yes. 'Greatly reduce the chances of contracting it' - do you genuinely believe that? Do your experiences in the real world of people you know catching covid genuinely back up that claim? The tens/hundreds of thousands catching covid each day, the majority who are vaccinated, does that really back up that claim? I find it amazing that people almost dismiss what they are seeing with their own eyes and choose to believe what they feel they should. They believe Joe Biden when he said if you have the vaccine you will not get covid, when that is simply not true. The vaccine is fantastic at stopping people getting seriously ill, but stopping people getting covid and passing it on is much more up for debate. Your pedantic observations are pointless, the whole agenda of producing a vaccine was to save peoples lives, and reduce the massive strain on the NHS? Which it has achieved, everything else is superfluous. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjak Posted February 11, 2022 Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 22 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said: You appear to have completely misunderstood my point. To be clear, I am pro vaccination. Try reading my post again. You seemed to be saying "if only he'd got vaccinated, he wouldn't have caught covid". My reply was "that's not necessarily true". Perhaps we're talking at cross purposes. Fair enough.....my bad. Sorry for misunderstanding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted February 12, 2022 Report Share Posted February 12, 2022 17 hours ago, italian dave said: Comments above. Great point by @Norn Iron above though…..loooks like NW may have been vaccinated after all and we’ve got into this debate on entirely the wrong assumption!! Pretty sure the rules changed on the 17th Jan, it’s 5 days for everyone regardless of vaccination status (assuming two negative tests) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted February 12, 2022 Report Share Posted February 12, 2022 6 hours ago, MarcusX said: Pretty sure the rules changed on the 17th Jan, it’s 5 days for everyone regardless of vaccination status (assuming two negative tests) Ah, OK, apologies, didn’t realise that. It’s hard enough keeping track of the rules that do apply to you, never mind the ones that don’t! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norn Iron Posted February 12, 2022 Report Share Posted February 12, 2022 (edited) . Edited February 12, 2022 by Norn Iron Misinformation at best! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norn Iron Posted February 12, 2022 Report Share Posted February 12, 2022 7 hours ago, MarcusX said: Pretty sure the rules changed on the 17th Jan, it’s 5 days for everyone regardless of vaccination status (assuming two negative tests) Thanks MarcusX. I've reread it. You're right. There's a difference between an unvaccinated contact and someone who has had covid but is unvaccinated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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